Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[WildTurkeyXX]

In hindsight, is anyone else questioning just how overpriced Thomas was and whether or not we maybe should've bit the bullet? 

Same for Whitecloud? 

Might have helped against Carolina, might not have. But it at least might've helped us finish up the first two rounds in less than 7... 

[Commandant]

I wanted Thomas, still do... but how do we know what the price was?

[GHT120]

1 minute ago, Commandant said:

I wanted Thomas, still do... but how do we know what the price was?

Do we ever?

[Commandant]

2 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Do we ever?

 

Only when actual trades are made.  Or if the player is traded elsewhere we can determine if we could have offered a similar but better package.

 

So i dont know how we know enough to say we should have or shouldnt have made ___ deal, when Thomas didnt move.

[WildTurkeyXX]

4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Not certain who they have in the pipeline for physicality ... Fabian is the only name that comes to mind and he can't break the Top 6 in the AHL; not certain he is a regular NHLer ... AJ Green would be a nice UFA addition, but I fear his career-year 17 goals will entice some desperate GM to overpay for his other attributes.

Are we both Talking about Montreal? When you say Fabian do you mean Florian? If so we'll just have to agree to disagree on his trajectory. But outside of him, Laval just all around plays a more physical brand of hockey. Beck isn't a bruiser, but he's got a nasty edge to him. Thrope is also a big boy with a mean streak. And that young defenseman from Brantford, Protz. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe we see a healthy dose of Flo and Beck next year. And depending on who they replace in our lineup, that right there will be an increase in physicality.

[GHT120]

Just now, WildTurkeyXX said:

Are we both Talking about Montreal? When you say Fabian do you mean Florian? If so we'll just have to agree to disagree on his trajectory. But outside of him, Laval just all around plays a more physical brand of hockey. Beck isn't a bruiser, but he's got a nasty edge to him. Thrope is also a big boy with a mean streak. And that young defenseman from Brantford, Protz. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe we see a healthy dose of Flo and Beck next year. And depending on who they replace in our lineup, that right there will be an increase in physicality.

 

Yes Florian ... my bad

 

And we will have to agree to disagree ... we may well get a healthy dose of Florian and Beck next year but I don't think they are the solution ... as for Protz, I'll wait to see how he transitions to the AHL before projecting where/if he fits in the NHL

[WildTurkeyXX]

1 minute ago, Commandant said:

 

Only when actual trades are made.  Or if the player is traded elsewhere we can determine if we could have offered a similar but better package.

 

So i dont know how we know enough to say we should have or shouldnt have made ___ deal, when Thomas didnt move.

Fair point. I guess it takes a little imagination. Imagine what you think a fair price would've been. Then pretend your St Louis and keep adding to the price until you think it's too much from a Habs perspective. Now, in hindsight, would you wish we had paid it?

Haha it's all speculation. But at the time there were plenty of discussions on here. I'm sure someone on here had probably made a proposal that you thought "nah, that's just too much". In hindsight, would you still feel that way? Or seeing how far we went with what we had, do we wish we would've been just a little looser with our wallets?

[WildTurkeyXX]

8 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Yes Florian ... my bad

 

And we will have to agree to disagree ... we may well get a healthy dose of Florian and Beck next year but I don't think they are the solution ... as for Protz, I'll wait to see how he transitions to the AHL before projecting where/if he fits in the NHL

I'll wait on Protz as well, but we were talking pipelines... (Or at least I was)

[WildTurkeyXX]

6 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Yes Florian ... my bad

 

And we will have to agree to disagree ... we may well get a healthy dose of Florian and Beck next year but I don't think they are the solution ... as for Protz, I'll wait to see how he transitions to the AHL before projecting where/if he fits in the NHL

And I also don't agree that those two (especially not all on their own) are the solution. I do think they will add physicality, but it will lack maturity. Someone along the lines of a Greer would be a welcome addition. Physicality and experience.

[Commandant]

11 minutes ago, WildTurkeyXX said:

Fair point. I guess it takes a little imagination. Imagine what you think a fair price would've been. Then pretend your St Louis and keep adding to the price until you think it's too much from a Habs perspective. Now, in hindsight, would you wish we had paid it?

Haha it's all speculation. But at the time there were plenty of discussions on here. I'm sure someone on here had probably made a proposal that you thought "nah, that's just too much". In hindsight, would you still feel that way? Or seeing how far we went with what we had, do we wish we would've been just a little looser with our wallets?

 

I think for a centre who is on the younger side and fits in with the age of the core of Suzuki, Caufield, Hutson, Slaf, Demidov, Dobson Dobes, Fowler, that yes Id overpay (to an extent)

 

Thomas for Guhle, Hage, Struble, 1st would be painful but Id do it.

 

Ive said before Thomas is very, very comparable to Nick Suzuki so thats gotta be your standard.  What would you want in a trade if we were looking to rebuild and had to move Suzuki.

[Commandant]

As long as the contract isnt too long.  Mason Marchment might be the UFA you are looking for as a physical forward.

 

Of course there is Alex tuch too but i think hes the best UFA and is going somewhere he will get a massive contract.

[WildTurkeyXX]

6 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I think for a centre who is on the younger side and fits in with the age of the core of Suzuki, Caufield, Hutson, Slaf, Demidov, Dobson Dobes, Fowler, that yes Id overpay (to an extent)

 

Thomas for Guhle, Hage, Struble, 1st would be painful but Id do it.

 

Ive said before Thomas is very, very comparable to Nick Suzuki so thats gotta be your standard.  What would you want in a trade if we were looking to rebuild and had to move Suzuki.

We agree 100%

On the price and the justification. Would you toss in a second 1st? Or an upgrade on the Struble piece? Cause man, Thomas sure would've come in handy. Do you think we'll revisit these talks? I sure hope we do...

[GHT120]

10 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Thomas for Guhle, Hage, Struble, 1st would be painful but Id do it.

 

ANY deal for a substantial player will be a package that is painful

[WildTurkeyXX]

4 minutes ago, Commandant said:

As long as the contract isnt too long.  Mason Marchment might be the UFA you are looking for as a physical forward.

 

Of course there is Alex tuch too but i think hes the best UFA and is going somewhere he will get a massive contract.

I was a pretty big on the idea of trading for Tuch in the off-season, but he was sure underwhelming during our series. Gave me second thoughts for sure.

[hab29RETIRED]

4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Hear hear! MM is superb and would be welcome on ANY team.

 

I love Guhle's hard-edged game but he is in no way untouchable, that's for sure. At least his strong second-half may have assuaged concerns about durability. 

 

Fact is, we may just be in a great position of having a surplus of top-4 D-men.

 

Whether or not the balance is right (L-R, big and physical vs puck moving) is the real question. CAR did hem us in with superior physicality and strength (indexed to speed). The playoff book on the Habs for the foreseeable future will be to forecheck and punish our D like crazy and these playoffs suggest that it will succeed in grinding them down over multiple series. A Zadorov-type - hard to find, I know - would help greatly. It's quite a pity that Arber cannot be a reliable bottom-pairing guy, otherwise he'd be just what the doctor ordered.

I think Guhle showed a lot of growth in these playoffs. With all his injuries, his progression has been impacted. But he showed signs of being a solid top. I think if our top 4 is so good that MM gets pushed to the bottom pairing and that bottom pairing plays over 15 min a game, that is a positive.

[GHT120]

1 minute ago, WildTurkeyXX said:

I was a pretty big on the idea of trading for Tuch in the off-season, but he was sure underwhelming during our series. Gave me second thoughts for sure.

Tuch was injured late in the season and never fully recovered ... but as @Commandant said, he will likely be the most pursued free agent ... unless the Habs impressed the hell of of him, or the dream of playing with his brother is incredibly strong, I don't see him signing in Montreal

[hab29RETIRED]

Shane Wright is on Chris Johnston’s trade board. If McTavish, Thomas and Hirshier aren’t viable options (I would think given his contact situation, Hirshier would probably cost the less), is Wright a guy who has shown that he can be a potential 2C and that he is ready to take the next step?  I’m asking because the only games with him I’ve seen are the ones against the Habs.

[Commandant]

6 minutes ago, WildTurkeyXX said:

I was a pretty big on the idea of trading for Tuch in the off-season, but he was sure underwhelming during our series. Gave me second thoughts for sure.

 

He was good in the Boston series and has been great for Vegas in playoffs before. Im not gonna change my opinion of the player based on the short sample of one bad playoff series.  

 

I just dont know if i want him at 10+ million and that was before the playoff series.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 minute ago, GHT120 said:

Tuch was injured late in the season and never fully recovered ... but as @Commandant said, he will likely be the most pursued free agent ... unless the Habs impressed the hell of of him, or the dream of playing with his brother is incredibly strong, I don't see him signing in Montreal

It sounds like he wants to be in 8 figures. Too much money!

[Commandant]

Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

Shane Wright is on Chris Johnston’s trade board. If McTavish, Thomas and Hirshier aren’t viable options (I would think given his contact situation, Hirshier would probably cost the less), is Wright a guy who has shown that he can be a potential 2C and that he is ready to take the next step?  I’m asking because the only games with him I’ve seen are the ones against the Habs.

 

In the second half of the 24-25 he looked like he was taking the next step and becoming a top 6 centre, maybe even a possible 1b type.  But then this year he looked like a third liner.

[GHT120]

Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

It sounds like he wants to be in 8 figures. Too much money!

$9,999,999?
😉   😁

[WildTurkeyXX]

5 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It sounds like he wants to be in 8 figures. Too much money

I've heard the same thing. But he also talks a very big game when it comes to Stanley Cup contention and how important it is to him. I'm sure that a part of him knows that it'll likely be one or the other for him. A big contract or a spot on a contender, wherever he ends up.

[BCHabnut]

5 hours ago, Commandant said:

  How many of Carolina's defencemen are big and tough.

 

I dont see any personally.

 

They are very good defensively obviously, but its by taking away time and space, its clogging the middle and taking away passing lanes, its tying their man up, and its moving the puck out of the zone and out of danger quickly and starting breakouts.  There is no big thumper back there.  So why do the Habs need one?

 

Mattheson, Dobson, Reinbacher, etc all have size and wont be pushed around.  Hutson is excellent defensively despite his size.  I dont see where Guhle is untouchable.

 

And dont get me wrong, i like Guhle a lot but to me you have to give to get in a trade and hes the expendable piece.

Slavin was a physically strong, smothering defenseman with mobilty throughout the series. He simply killed plays and neutralized forecheck pressure. Often with mobility, but equally often with physical box outs and smothering players legally along the boards. Physical doesnt need to be massive hits. I think Ghule has the potential to be a smothering defensive defenseman. Matheson has transformed wonderfully as well. I don't know if Reinbacher will have the ability to smother plays or not. The right side does not seem to have a player of that ability.  Many of the Canadiens giveaways happens behind their goal line. I would like to see an RD who can physically neutralize this. 

 

I don't see Ghule as a core piece, but his value relative to team balance is high IMO. If he is traded, a physically stronger RD is important to me. Having said that, the easier way to become more physical, is in the bottom 6 forwards. I feel like that would have the greatest impact on making the team more physical.

 

 

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

Slavin was a physically strong, smothering defenseman with mobilty throughout the series. He simply killed plays and neutralized forecheck pressure. Often with mobility, but equally often with physical box outs and smothering players legally along the boards. Physical doesnt need to be massive hits. I think Ghule has the potential to be a smothering defensive defenseman. Matheson has transformed wonderfully as well. I don't know if Reinbacher will have the ability to smother plays or not. The right side does not seem to have a player of that ability.  Many of the Canadiens giveaways happens behind their goal line. I would like to see an RD who can physically neutralize this. 

 

I don't see Ghule as a core piece, but his value relative to team balance is high IMO. If he is traded, a physically stronger RD is important to me. Having said that, the easier way to become more physical, is in the bottom 6 forwards. I feel like that would have the greatest impact on making the team more physical.

 

 

 

Slavin is probably the best defensive defenceman in the entire NHL, so to be clear, Im not saying any of the Habs D are as good as him.

 

That said.  Hes so good because of his positioning, because he takes away space, because he moves the puck up the ice and out of the zone.  He has outstanding gap control and doesnt allow players into the middle of the ice.  Hes strong enough to hold his own but hes not clearing the crease or throwing big hits on the boards but he doesnt have to in order to be outstanding defensively.

 

These are all things that Dobson can do as well.  Though of course not as well as Slavin.  These are all things that Reinbacher does at the AHL level, though of course there will be a learning curve at the NHL level.

 

The point though is you dont need to cross check a guy 17 times and throw big hits like Shea Weber, to be an effective defensive player.  There is more than one way to do it at a high level.

[Habs]

Montreal and Vancouver are looking like trade partners so I will throw this out.  
 

Gallagher 

Roy or mid range prospect

2nd 

 

for 

 

debrusk

 

 

both players want a change of scenery.   I might be a little light on the offer though.  I am assuming Gallagher has positive trade value as what’s been reported.