tomh009 Posted July 14 Author Posted July 14 Does first round really still matter when it has been over seven years since he was drafted? Quote
dlbalr Posted July 14 Posted July 14 3 hours ago, tomh009 said: Does first round really still matter when it has been over seven years since he was drafted? It shouldn't but it plays a bit of a factor. The closer you can get your comparables, the better it's received. Quote
hab29RETIRED Posted July 14 Posted July 14 1 hour ago, dlbalr said: It shouldn't but it plays a bit of a factor. The closer you can get your comparables, the better it's received. I could see the position being a factor in determining a comparable, but can’t see draft position mattering after 6 years. If would a guy like Daigle went to arbitration after 6 years, I doubt that it would have mattered that he was a #1 overall pick. Quote
GHT120 Posted July 14 Posted July 14 54 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: I could see the position being a factor in determining a comparable, but can’t see draft position mattering after 6 years. If would a guy like Daigle went to arbitration after 6 years, I doubt that it would have mattered that he was a #1 overall pick. Depends on how the rules are set out ... and remember, the arbiters are not necessarily "hockey people" Quote
tomh009 Posted July 14 Author Posted July 14 2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: I could see the position being a factor in determining a comparable, but can’t see draft position mattering after 6 years. If would a guy like Daigle went to arbitration after 6 years, I doubt that it would have mattered that he was a #1 overall pick. The draft position was based on his performance in junior, 8-10 years ago. Somehow one would think that the recent performance, in the NHL, would matter significantly more. Quote
hab29RETIRED Posted July 15 Posted July 15 1 hour ago, tomh009 said: The draft position was based on his performance in junior, 8-10 years ago. Somehow one would think that the recent performance, in the NHL, would matter significantly more. That’s pretty much he point I was making. Quote
WildTurkeyXX Posted July 16 Posted July 16 Last year I don't think many people would've predicted that Kapenan would've been our 2C before the season got started. But once he got in there and got an opportunity he kinda grabbed a hold with both hands and held on for pretty much the entire season. With that in mind, what do we think the odds are that something like that happens again this year? Any chance Beck or Florian get a similar opportunity? Quote
DON Posted July 16 Posted July 16 1 hour ago, WildTurkeyXX said: Any chance Beck or Florian get a similar opportunity? None. Kapanen had 15g 35pts in 36 SHL games. Beck seems has little offense (28g 122 AHL games) and i would peg Florian (41g 136 AHL games) as 4th line centre whose ceiling is 3rd line centre. Quote
WildTurkeyXX Posted July 16 Posted July 16 7 minutes ago, DON said: None. Kapanen had 15g 35pts in 36 SHL games. Beck seems has little offense (28g 122 AHL games) and i would peg Florian (41g 136 AHL games) as 4th line centre whose ceiling is 3rd line centre. None? Zero? Hmm... Not saying your wrong, but zero seems a little low... Quote
Commandant Posted July 16 Posted July 16 I think the number 2 C on day 1 of the season will be one of In order of likelihood Kapanen Outside Acquisition Newhook Dach Evans Hage (changes mind and signs.. input this here to show how low a possibiity i consider anything below this) Danault Beck Zharovsky leaves Russia and signs. Habs trade for Sidney Crosby Habs trade for Macklin Celebrini Tomas Plekanec David Desharnais Arber Xhekaj Florian Xhekaj 1 Quote
WildTurkeyXX Posted July 16 Posted July 16 22 minutes ago, Commandant said: I think the number 2 C on day 1 of the season will be one of In order of likelihood Kapanen Outside Acquisition Newhook Dach Evans Hage (changes mind and signs.. input this here to show how low a possibiity i consider anything below this) Danault Beck Zharovsky leaves Russia and signs. Habs trade for Sidney Crosby Habs trade for Macklin Celebrini Tomas Plekanec David Desharnais Arber Xhekaj Florian Xhekaj Hahahahaha I appreciate the effort! Quote
WildTurkeyXX Posted July 16 Posted July 16 31 minutes ago, Commandant said: I think the number 2 C on day 1 of the season will be one of In order of likelihood Kapanen Outside Acquisition Newhook Dach Evans Hage (changes mind and signs.. input this here to show how low a possibiity i consider anything below this) Danault Beck Zharovsky leaves Russia and signs. Habs trade for Sidney Crosby Habs trade for Macklin Celebrini Tomas Plekanec David Desharnais Arber Xhekaj Florian Xhekaj Bottom line, seriously low faith in Flo, eh? Quote
tomh009 Posted July 16 Author Posted July 16 24 minutes ago, WildTurkeyXX said: Bottom line, seriously low faith in Flo, eh? Well, depends on how highly you rate Desharnais's chances ... 😊 1 Quote
GHT120 Posted July 16 Posted July 16 3 hours ago, WildTurkeyXX said: None? Zero? Hmm... Not saying your wrong, but zero seems a little low... Since absolutely NOTHING is absolutely impossible, all but zero ... neither have the offensive skills/potential that are needed in a 2C. Quote
GHT120 Posted July 16 Posted July 16 Date Time Opponent Tuesday, September 29 7:00 p.m. @ Toronto Saturday, October 3 7:00 p.m. @ Pittsburgh Tuesday, October 6 7:00 p.m. Carolina Thursday, October 8 7:00 p.m. Nashville Saturday, October 10 7:00 p.m. Detroit Tuesday, October 13 6:30 p.m. Buffalo Wednesday, October 14 7:30 p.m. @ Washington Saturday, October 17 7:00 p.m. Buffalo Tuesday, October 20 7:00 p.m. San Jose Friday, October 23 8:00 p.m. @ Chicago Sunday, October 252026 Heritage Classic 7:00 p.m. @ Winnipeg Tuesday, October 27 8:00 p.m. @ St-Louis Thursday, October 29 8:00 p.m. @ Dallas Saturday, October 31 7:00 p.m. Pittsburgh Tuesday, November 3 7:00 p.m. Winnipeg Thursday, November 5 7:00 p.m. Utah Saturday, November 7 7:00 p.m. @ Toronto Tuesday, November 10 7:00 p.m. Minnesota Thursday, November 12 7:00 p.m. @ Boston Saturday, November 14 7:00 p.m. Colorado Monday, November 16 7:30 p.m. @ NY Rangers Wednesday, November 18 7:30 p.m. @ New Jersey Thursday, November 19 7:00 p.m. @ Carolina Saturday, November 21 7:00 p.m. Philadelphia Monday, November 23 7:30 p.m. Los Angeles Wednesday, November 25 9:30 p.m. @ Colorado Saturday, November 28 4:00 p.m. @ Vegas Monday, November 30 9:30 p.m. @ Utah Wednesday, December 2 7:30 p.m. Tampa Bay Saturday, December 5 1:00 p.m. Florida Sunday, December 6 7:00 p.m. Ottawa Tuesday, December 8 7:00 p.m. Vegas Thursday, December 10 7:00 p.m. Anaheim Saturday, December 12 1:00 p.m. @ Columbus Monday, December 14 7:30 p.m. Edmonton Friday, December 18 7:00 p.m. @ Buffalo Saturday, December 19 7:00 p.m. @ Minnesota Tuesday, December 22 7:00 p.m. @ Columbus Saturday, December 26 7:00 p.m. Toronto Sunday, December 27 7:00 p.m. Dallas Tuesday, December 29 7:00 p.m. Columbus Thursday, December 31 2:00 p.m. @ Tampa Bay Saturday, January 2 4:00 p.m. @ Florida Monday, January 4 7:30 p.m. Chicago Wednesday, January 6 7:30 p.m. Boston Saturday, January 9 7:00 p.m. Pittsburgh Wednesday, January 13 7:00 p.m. New Jersey Thursday, January 14 8:00 p.m. @ Nashville Saturday, January 16 7:00 p.m. @ Philadelphia Monday, January 18 1:00 p.m. @ Buffalo Tuesday, January 19 7:00 p.m. @ Washington Thursday, January 21 7:00 p.m. St-Louis Saturday, January 23 7:00 p.m. Calgary Tuesday, January 26 7:00 p.m. Carolina Thursday, January 28 8:00 p.m. @ Calgary Saturday, January 30 7:00 p.m. @ Edmonton Monday, February 1 8:30 p.m. @ Vancouver Wednesday, February 3 9:40 p.m. @ Seattle Saturday, February 13 1:00 p.m. Washington Sunday, February 14 1:00 p.m. NY Rangers Thursday, February 18 7:00 p.m. @ Detroit Saturday, February 20 7:00 p.m. NY Islanders Monday, February 22 1:00 p.m. @ Philadelphia Wednesday, February 24 10:00 p.m. @ Los Angeles Saturday, February 27 7:00 p.m. @ Anaheim Monday, March 1 10:00 p.m. @ San Jose Thursday, March 4 7:00 p.m. Seattle Saturday, March 6 7:00 p.m. Vancouver Tuesday, March 9 7:00 p.m. @ NY Islanders Wednesday, March 10 7:30 p.m. Boston Saturday, March 13 7:00 p.m. @ Ottawa Tuesday, March 16 7:00 p.m. Florida Thursday, March 18 7:00 p.m. Tampa Bay Saturday, March 20 1:00 p.m. @ Detroit Monday, March 22 7:30 p.m. Toronto Wednesday, March 24 7:30 p.m. Ottawa Saturday, March 27 7:00 p.m. New Jersey Sunday, March 28 7:00 p.m. Detroit Tuesday, March 30 7:00 p.m. @ Boston Thursday, April 1 7:00 p.m. NY Rangers Sunday, April 4 7:30 p.m. @ NY Islanders Tuesday, April 6 7:00 p.m. @ Florida Thursday, April 8 7:00 p.m. @ Tampa Bay Saturday, April 10 7:00 p.m. @ Ottawa Quote
WildTurkeyXX Posted July 16 Posted July 16 Just seems a little harsh. I don't mean any disrespect to Kapenan, or the SHL. But I don't get the impression that it's as tough a league to score in as the AHL. Not knocking the stats he put up, but even with them being what they were I don't recall Kapenan projecting as much more than a third line player either. But a little opportunity mixed with some chemistry goes a long way. And yes, it was pretty popular last off-season to have them ranked Kap, Beck then Flo. But I don't think I was alone in thinking Kap and Beck were much closer. But the Beck conversation is a little besides the point. Though I think we might be selling his potential a little short, haha it's the utter disrespect for Florian that has me intrigued. Heck, Commandant (very humorously) went to great lengths to bury him on his depth chart. To avoid any confusion, I'm not predicting him having a career as a 2C. But the coach that seems to know him the best compared him to (amongst other players, but this one makes the most sense) Adam Lowry. And though Lowry isn't exactly a 2C, himself. I'm sure he's spent time in that spot from time to time throughout his career. Me, I'm an optimist. And an opportunist. Since we don't have an obvious placeholder for that position at the moment, I want to see a look at anyone we have that plays center. Projections are great, but I'd still like to see it. Like I said at the top, opportunities and chemistry go a long way. Quote
Commandant Posted July 16 Posted July 16 3 hours ago, WildTurkeyXX said: Bottom line, seriously low faith in Flo, eh? I don't think he is ever going to be a top 6 NHL centre. One AHL season where he had a bunch of goals with an insane and unsustainable shooting percentage doesn't change that. He's always likely to be a bottom six player in his career IMO. With that analysis, and the fact he'd be a rookie with a couple games of experience, the chances of him being a top 6 player to start the season are close to NIL IMO. He'd need an absolutely insane pre-season, like hat tricks every game he plays or something. Kapanen is a much better skater, and yes, I'd call the SHL equivalent to the AHL, where he's showed much higher scoring potential. I also think his defensive game being more advanced for his age than Flo X, gave him a leg up last year that flo can't get. Quote
dlbalr Posted July 16 Posted July 16 55 minutes ago, Commandant said: I don't think he is ever going to be a top 6 NHL centre. One AHL season where he had a bunch of goals with an insane and unsustainable shooting percentage doesn't change that. He's always likely to be a bottom six player in his career IMO. With that analysis, and the fact he'd be a rookie with a couple games of experience, the chances of him being a top 6 player to start the season are close to NIL IMO. He'd need an absolutely insane pre-season, like hat tricks every game he plays or something. To add to this, even in the season that he scored a bunch of goals, he was in the bottom six which says a lot. Last season, he was the 4C for probably 60% of their games. A player doesn't go from an AHL 4C to an NHL 2C over the course of a summer. Hat-tricks in every preseason game probably wouldn't be enough, even. Quote
WildTurkeyXX Posted July 16 Posted July 16 59 minutes ago, Commandant said: I don't think he is ever going to be a top 6 NHL centre. One AHL season where he had a bunch of goals with an insane and unsustainable shooting percentage doesn't change that. He's always likely to be a bottom six player in his career IMO. With that analysis, and the fact he'd be a rookie with a couple games of experience, the chances of him being a top 6 player to start the season are close to NIL IMO. He'd need an absolutely insane pre-season, like hat tricks every game he plays or something. Kapanen is a much better skater, and yes, I'd call the SHL equivalent to the AHL, where he's showed much higher scoring potential. I also think his defensive game being more advanced for his age than Flo X, gave him a leg up last year that flo can't get. Nothing here is unreasonable. And I don't project Florian to be more than a bottom 6 player, either. But I also don't project Kapenan to more than a bottom 6, either. And we also know that Evans isn't. And yet, both of them got some measure of time centering our 2nd line last year. Haha but heck, you even went so far as to suggest Arber had a better shot. Which obviously was a joke, and I did genuinely laugh out loud at that (in public) when I read it. But underneath that humor ... I don't know, it just seems silly to me. Yes, it may be a stretch, far fetched even. But it wouldn't be the first time that a young player surprised everyone and surpassed expectations. And like I said, I'm an optimist. I don't need to believe it's likely for me to appreciate the (however unlikely) potential upside to having a 6'3, 200+ lb center on our second line that does all of the little things that everyone knows were missing throughout our lineup. But how do we know if we don't give it a try? Quote
Commandant Posted July 16 Posted July 16 Yes, i made a joke to say the chances were not zero, but they are extremely, extremely low in my eyes. Quote
dlbalr Posted July 16 Posted July 16 36 minutes ago, WildTurkeyXX said: And like I said, I'm an optimist. I don't need to believe it's likely for me to appreciate the (however unlikely) potential upside to having a 6'3, 200+ lb center on our second line that does all of the little things that everyone knows were missing throughout our lineup. But how do we know if we don't give it a try? We won't know unless it's tried. But I certainly don't want to know as I'm pretty certain it would be a disaster waiting to happen. If he can't crack the top six in Laval in two seasons of action, there is no viable justification for him cracking the top six in Montreal two months from now. Truth be told, I don't think he cracks the top six in Laval this coming season, at least not on a regular basis. Xhekaj is not that good of a prospect. The lucky goal total from his rookie year aside, he's a crash-and-bang forward with the unfortunate ability to take even more dumb penalties than his brother. That is not the type of player you want to give a lot of minutes to. That is the prototypical fourth line description which is his ceiling. Put it this way, I don't like the Danault at 2C idea. But it's infinitely better than putting Xhekaj at 2C. Quote
dlbalr Posted July 17 Posted July 17 Some schedule notes: The Habs usually are more toward the top of the league in back-to-backs. I think this one is pretty self-explanatory. That bodes well for the Habs. Quote
WildTurkeyXX Posted July 17 Posted July 17 55 minutes ago, dlbalr said: We won't know unless it's tried. But I certainly don't want to know as I'm pretty certain it would be a disaster waiting to happen. If he can't crack the top six in Laval in two seasons of action, there is no viable justification for him cracking the top six in Montreal two months from now. Truth be told, I don't think he cracks the top six in Laval this coming season, at least not on a regular basis. Xhekaj is not that good of a prospect. The lucky goal total from his rookie year aside, he's a crash-and-bang forward with the unfortunate ability to take even more dumb penalties than his brother. That is not the type of player you want to give a lot of minutes to. That is the prototypical fourth line description which is his ceiling. Put it this way, I don't like the Danault at 2C idea. But it's infinitely better than putting Xhekaj at 2C. Hmm.. okay, I'm not going to drive this one into the ground. I just want to suggest that aside from his "lucky" rookie season, he followed it up with 17. So it's not exactly like he fell off the map. His own (ex) coach has given him absolutely glowing reviews, multiple times. Most recently in that little exit interview he gave with Marinaro. Not sure alif anyone watched that, but it was a good watch for sure. He gave a fair bit of feedback on our Laval prospects, and the two that he was hands down most excited about were Xhekaj and Engstrom. Take that for what you want. I think you summed up your position best with your opening line "we won't know unless it's tried. But I certainly don't want to know". Fair enough. Quote
WildTurkeyXX Posted July 17 Posted July 17 1 hour ago, Commandant said: Yes, i made a joke to say the chances were not zero, but they are extremely, extremely low in my eyes. Lol it was a good joke. It did kinda imply that the chances were actually less than zero though. And I know it can be easy to misinterpret context or tone in conversations like these. So just in case it wasn't obvious, I genuinely and sincerely did/do find it funny. It was very good Quote
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