Ufa Targets

[kaos]

Not worth being a top NHL team? Not worth adding a Conn Smythe winner who's 25 years old?

Look at all top NHL teams and they all have a star, a top guy to go to. Without one, you can't be a top team.

Look at Buffalo, good team but not a top team. It is getting more intense at this time of the season and they are having difficulties.

The team is a star center short of being in the top 5 teams. Look at how Staal completely modified the Hurricanes. He makes everyone else better. The Hurricanes were similar to us before is explosion. Take Staal out and they're as good as we are. Add Richards and we're as good as they are.

Like I said, it doesn't have to be Richards, but I think he's the most accessible top center. Maybe Marleau? But I prefer Richards.

OK, so how about giving me 3 centers you would like to see come to Montreal, and then tell me how your going to get them here. I'd like to know what players your going to trade to get those guys here. Be realistic, let see what kind of package you put together.

Do you say Richards is most realistic because of the cap room in Tampa Bay? Then lets see you make a trade to Tampa for Richards. A nd remember it can't include alot of salary going the other way, because of the cap.......let see what you've got

[Komisarek the Cruncher]

OK, so how about giving me 3 centers you would like to see come to Montreal, and then tell me how your going to get them here. I'd like to know what players your going to trade to get those guys here. Be realistic, let see what kind of package you put together.

Do you say Richards is most realistic because of the cap room in Tampa Bay? Then lets see you make a trade to Tampa for Richards. A nd remember it can't include alot of salary going the other way, because of the cap.......let see what you've got

Yes Richards is the most accessible because of the cap room. Not because they won't ba able to sign him, but because they would have to put all their remaining cap in him, leaving nothing to improve the D and goalies. Is it really smart for TB to sign Richards and let go of Kubina and stick with Grahame? Asking the question is answering it. They might not even make the playoffs this year (I bet that either Florida or Atlanta makes them instead of TB), so why would the stick with the same team? The only reason the would keep Richards, is because Feaster is an idiot. I hope that TB doesn't make the playoffs, it will force TB to upgrade their D and goalie, and they can only do that by trading Richards.

What to offer, I'm not BG and I don't claim to be. TB can chose in a package of Aebischer, Ribs, Zednik, Sourray (we can replace him with many good quality UFA D available this summer), Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Plekanec. Like I said, I don't mind overpaying a little to get a player of is caliber. Besides, we have plenty of forwards, we can afford to give up a few.

As for other centers, there's Arnott and Savard as UFA, there's Marleau who might be available for the right price. There might be other ones...you and I know as much as any simple amateur that we are. Who knew that Thornton was available? Even most GMs didn't know until the actual trade.

I put my faith in BG that Ribs will be gone and that we will have a new 2nd line center next year.

[kaos]

What to offer, I'm not BG and I don't claim to be. TB can chose in a package of Aebischer, Ribs, Zednik, Sourray (we can replace him with many good quality UFA D available this summer), Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Plekanec. Like I said, I don't mind overpaying a little to get a player of is caliber. Besides, we have plenty of forwards, we can afford to give up a few.

I doubt Tampa wants any of these guys and it wouldn't make sense to take guys like Aebischer and Zednik and Souray in return as that would max out there cap room. The only way Richards is going anywhere is if Tampa can get a premium quality prospect + in return, something which Montreal does not have. If fact I see nothing that Montreael has that Tampa would want.

I agree Montreal would be a better team with Richards, maybe a cup challeging tema with another upgrade on Defense. Yeah Montrael has alot of forwards, but nothing Tampa would consider in return for one of the best centers in the league.

As for other centers, there's Arnott and Savard as UFA, there's Marleau who might be available for the right price. There might be other ones...you and I know as much as any simple amateur that we are. Who knew that Thornton was available? Even most GMs didn't know until the actual trade.

As for Arnott. I'd pass. This guy has had one decent year, this year, other than his rookie year. THeres no guarentee this guy will have a repeat performance next year. Besides he's prone to injury and long slumps. Not something Montreal needs.

And I'd be even less inclined towards Savard. He's small, slow and has zero work ethic, which has been a knock his whole career. He's never been a point a game guy, as is only so now because of Kovalchuk and Hossa, neither of which Montreal has anything close to

[Komisarek the Cruncher]

I doubt Tampa wants any of these guys and it wouldn't make sense to take guys like Aebischer and Zednik and Souray in return as that would max out there cap room. The only way Richards is going anywhere is if Tampa can get a premium quality prospect + in return, something which Montreal does not have. If fact I see nothing that Montreael has that Tampa would want.

I agree Montreal would be a better team with Richards, maybe a cup challeging tema with another upgrade on Defense. Yeah Montrael has alot of forwards, but nothing Tampa would consider in return for one of the best centers in the league.

I agree that Richards is a very long shot, but we never know. Look at the Thornton trade.

It could be someone else than Richards, all I want is a very good center to replace Ribs. Even a guy like Arnott who's not Richards caliber would be great.

[kaos]

I agree that Richards is a very long shot, but we never know. Look at the Thornton trade.

It could be someone else than Richards, all I want is a very good center to replace Ribs. Even a guy like Arnott who's not Richards caliber would be great.

As for Arnott. I'd pass. This guy has had one decent year, this year, other than his rookie year. THeres no guarentee this guy will have a repeat performance next year. Besides he's prone to injury and long slumps. Not something Montreal needs.

And I'd be even less inclined towards Savard. He's small, slow and has zero work ethic, which has been a knock his whole career. He's never been a point a game guy, as is only so now because of Kovalchuk and Hossa, neither of which Montreal has anything close to

[Komisarek the Cruncher]

As for Arnott. I'd pass. This guy has had one decent year, this year, other than his rookie year. THeres no guarentee this guy will have a repeat performance next year. Besides he's prone to injury and long slumps. Not something Montreal needs.

And I'd be even less inclined towards Savard. He's small, slow and has zero work ethic, which has been a knock his whole career. He's never been a point a game guy, as is only so now because of Kovalchuk and Hossa, neither of which Montreal has anything close to

Actually, I'm not a Savard fan neither. But I would take Arnott. Again, not my favourite choice, but definetly an upgrade on Ribs. I guess the best thing might be to wait another year and see which UFA centers are available after next year.

Or BG could surprise us and pull a trade and get someone we never expected. That is more BG's style... trade for someone we never expected.

[kaos]

More and more as I look at it, I think thats more and more a possibility. A trade. But I'm not sure who they would go after. I'm really thinking that Montreal may make a deal, but for a defensman. I could see Montreal maybe dealing a few extra forwards for a defensman. Maybe even a guy who is headed for UFA but maybe Montreal wants a crack at the right to sign them before the free agency period. A guy like Paul Mara or maybe Willie Mitchell come to mind. Maybe even a deal with Tampa Bay. Aebischer for Kubina.

Or most likely I am way off base and nothing is going to happen. We've all been dissapointed like that before.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the playoffs.

Edited April 2, 2006 by kaos

[simonus]

interesting note as to the habs future:

On the current active roster, only Dandenault came to MTL as a free agent.

10 players came via trade.

9 came via draft.

3 via waivers.

Now, MTL is in somewhat of a different position as to cap space/budget right now, but perhaps this suggests that a meaningful trade is more likely than a meaningful FA signing.

[Peter Puck]

TB wants to keep Richards and he is an RFA. They need a goalie and don't have much cap room. They may well fare badly in the playoffs or even miss them completely. This would put real pressure on them to make some big changes. Here is an outcome this might lead to.

TB could trade Lecavalier possibly for a goaltender to free some cap space. This even might allow them to sign Richards for less than they would otherwise since I don't think he would be happy playing in TB for less money than Lecavalier. Trading Lecavalier is one way out of their dilemma which yields them something in return.

Now we might be a team with whom they could make a trade. We don't really have a tender to send their way since Danis is unproven and Abeisher is a UFA (and Huet is a UFA who we will want to keep). But they might take a package including one (or more) of our young guys and prospects. They won't want to take back a large salary so we won't be bundling up Zednick or Bonk or anything like that. We would have to send some quality young players. I am not salivating after Lecavalier but we do need a big centre.

Edited April 3, 2006 by Peter Puck

[PB]

interesting note as to the habs future:

On the current active roster, only Dandenault came to MTL as a free agent.

10 players came via trade.

9 came via draft.

3 via waivers.

Now, MTL is in somewhat of a different position as to cap space/budget right now, but perhaps this suggests that a meaningful trade is more likely than a meaningful FA signing.

Higgins, Koivu, Ryder

Zednick, Ribeiro, Kovalev

Perezhogin, Plekanec, Murray

Downey, Bonk, Begin

The CH's lines last game where those.

If Gainey wants his team next year to improved upon this season's scoring performances,...Zednick

seems to me as the one's position that would need most a substitution.

His play and production have steadily declined in the last 3 saisons,.....he hasn't been a factor

at all since he was brought back to second line duty from the third 7 or 8 games ago,.....even if he

would finnish strong or have good play-offs,.....this pattern of his is there for all to see.

To get a better player over Zednick next year via a TRADE.........a Zednick-Sourray package or anything

similard would be needed in order to do so.

Replacing Zednick via an UFA PLAYER on the other hand......is painless,.....using the the advantage of our cap space is logical.

Once we reach more depth in our roster and prospects...and less cap space,......than trading in order to improved some aspects become ligitimate,......I dont think we are there yet.

Only in july would we know for shure which player would go free,.....unsigned by their former team.

There is interesting potentiel on the left wing like Elias, Samsonov,...but I have not watched the list.

A proven offensive player added to that line would make-up for the little weakness that still remains at its center......a task above what Kostsitsyn could do in that situation,....unless he is a Svatos.

But Kostsitsyn replacing Murray on the third and himself replacing Downey on the fourth would certainly

improved the scoring depth of our team.

As much as this scenario is realistic and that it appeals to me very much,.... it might just be impossible to

acheived....let alone be the right thing to do overall.

[JMMR]

Higgins, Koivu, Ryder

Zednick, Ribeiro, Kovalev

Perezhogin, Plekanec, Murray

Downey, Bonk, Begin

The CH's lines last game where those.

If Gainey wants his team next year to improved upon this season's scoring performances,...Zednick

seems to me as the one's position that would need most a substitution.

His play and production have steadily declined in the last 3 saisons,.....he hasn't been a factor

at all since he was brought back to second line duty from the third 7 or 8 games ago,.....even if he

would finnish strong or have good play-offs,.....this pattern of his is there for all to see.

To get a better player over Zednick next year via a TRADE.........a Zednick-Sourray package or anything

similard would be needed in order to do so.

Replacing Zednick via an UFA PLAYER on the other hand......is painless,.....using the the advantage of our cap space is logical.

Once we reach more depth in our roster and prospects...and less cap space,......than trading in order to improved some aspects become ligitimate,......I dont think we are there yet.

Only in july would we know for shure which player would go free,.....unsigned by their former team.

There is interesting potentiel on the left wing like Elias, Samsonov,...but I have not watched the list.

A proven offensive player added to that line would make-up for the little weakness that still remains at its center......a task above what Kostsitsyn could do in that situation,....unless he is a Svatos.

But Kostsitsyn replacing Murray on the third and himself replacing Downey on the fourth would certainly

improved the scoring depth of our team.

As much as this scenario is realistic and that it appeals to me very much,.... it might just be impossible to

acheived....let alone be the right thing to do overall.

Kostitsyn will be a top 2 line winger. That said if Zednik does have to go he will be perfect for that role. The Habs have plenty of youth and depth for that matter on the wings. Selanee Elias and all other winger's the Habs really do not need. All the Habs need is a centre for one of those top two lines. Otherwise I like their forwards. There is also the possibility that if Bonk is healthy next year and can regain his earlier form he may be the Habs #2 centre, let us not forget he was the Sens top guy for four years and helped bring them consecutive 100+ point seasons.

[kaos]

I agree, the Habs definitly need a top two center and a top 2 defensman. Probably don't need any further wingers. They are pretty abundant as is. Unless you can clear some out via trade

[CerebusClone]

As for Arnott. I'd pass. This guy has had one decent year, this year, other than his rookie year. THeres no guarentee this guy will have a repeat performance next year. Besides he's prone to injury and long slumps. Not something Montreal needs.

And I'd be even less inclined towards Savard. He's small, slow and has zero work ethic, which has been a knock his whole career. He's never been a point a game guy, as is only so now because of Kovalchuk and Hossa, neither of which Montreal has anything close to

Actually, Arnott's numbers are very similar to his last season's numbers with one exception: power play points. Considering the increased number of penalties this season in the NHL, it makes a lot of sense. Other than that, he was always a very good player in 5-on-5 situations, which is one thing I hate from Mike Ribeiro. Also, you have to consider that he's been mostly used as a second-line center throughout his career, so his offensive numbers are quite respectable. Add to that that he's big, physical, and defensively reliable, and you've got a huge upgrade over Mike Ribeiro.

Getting Arnott would solve a lot of problems. The only problem is that he's had problems with injuries, and having 2 injury-prone centers could lead to problems. However, the new NHL seems to have spared them (Koivu's injury was minor and very common this season), so maybe they would be fine... otherwise, it will mean more opportunities for the youngsters like Kyle Chipchura

[BTH]

Earlier in the thread people ruled out Niclas Havelid and said that Paul Mara should play on the third pairing. I'm not sure about the numbers right now but earlier in the season Havelid was the player averaging the most minutes per game. Okay, he's on a weak D corps but it still shows that he can play top pairing and that he can handle the minutes. He would be a great acquisition. Paul Mara on the third pairing? Again, this guy is much closer to a top 2 guy than a bottom 2. Getting him would definitely turn us into a much better team. Markov would definitely be nice. No question about Richards - he's definitely better than St Louis and possibly better than Lecavalier too. My number one guy would probably be Pavel Kubina (who will very likely be out of Tampa). If we get him and maybe a top 6 forward then I think we can challenge a degressing Ottawa for the division lead next season. Remember, Ottawa's losing a top defenceman and probably their starting goalie too. It's also very possible that they have to let some other guys go too.

[kaos]

Actually, Arnott's numbers are very similar to his last season's numbers with one exception: power play points. Considering the increased number of penalties this season in the NHL, it makes a lot of sense. Other than that, he was always a very good player in 5-on-5 situations, which is one thing I hate from Mike Ribeiro. Also, you have to consider that he's been mostly used as a second-line center throughout his career, so his offensive numbers are quite respectable. Add to that that he's big, physical, and defensively reliable, and you've got a huge upgrade over Mike Ribeiro.

Getting Arnott would solve a lot of problems. The only problem is that he's had problems with injuries, and having 2 injury-prone centers could lead to problems. However, the new NHL seems to have spared them (Koivu's injury was minor and very common this season), so maybe they would be fine... otherwise, it will mean more opportunities for the youngsters like Kyle Chipchura

Kyle is probably atleast a year away from playing in the NHL. No need to rush him yet

[kw11habs]

:hlogo:

Kyle is probably atleast a year away from playing in the NHL. No need to rush him yet

I think a guy who would come alot cheaper then Arnott is V. Kozlov (31 yrs old) who with his size and skill just might shine with Kovalev & Kostitsin along side him. That would give us a potent 1'st line and have Koivu, Higgins (who I think is going to be great) along with Marian Gaborik. Trade Ribiero, Ryder, Perezhogin & Zednik for Gaborik. It sounds like alot to give up but we'd be getting a 25 yr old superstar and actually besides Perezhogin would we really be giving up much. I know Ryder leads us in goals this year but he's to slow to play with Higgins & Koivu and he's a defensive liability. I'd definitly go after Mara as the 1'st choice on D, 2'nd choice J. McKee or M. Zidlicky. Third line Plecanek, Murray & B. Deveraux (UFA) 4'th line Bonk (for 1 more yr) with Begin & J. Ruttu (UFA) extra Andrew Peters (UFA) as our tough guy. As for the cage we have to definitly sign Huet let Aebischer go as he's a UFA and sign a guy like Tim Thomas, B. Boucher or J. Hedberg as a back-up. Martin Gerber would be nice but would likely be to much money as Carolina may want him as there #1. Guys who shouldn't be back next year besides the above mentioned, Bulis, Sundstrom, & either Bouillon or Streit keep one as the 7'th D-man.

If we are going to ice our own team in Hamilton next year without Edmonton here's a few guys available to help us fill the void down there as Dagenais, Paul, Aitken, Vandermeer & Carpenter likell won't be re-signed.

Possible AHL help: B. St. Jacques, M. Grenier, J.F Fortin, R. Abid, S. Thornton, B. Simon, D. Oliver, S. Gainey, A. Giroux and M. Ouellet.

[PB]

I agree, the Habs definitly need a top two center and a top 2 defensman. Probably don't need any further wingers. They are pretty abundant as is. Unless you can clear some out via trade

The winger's clearance has already begun with Sundstrom, Bulis and I would also predict

Zednick to be following them

In that case 2 spots would need be filled.......Latendresse might play junior again and maybe in Hamilton the

following year.......Kostsitsyn had 13 goals in Hamilton this year and might not be asked yet to fullfilled the role of a second line winger.

Gainey has said it that the money saved after traiding Theo would be use to re-enforce the team

somewhere else.

That " somewhere else " according to our team's stats should be our offense.

UFA market will have some proven offensive wingers but hardly any centers at all....althought there

room for some surprises,..ex. according to Boston Globe....Zhavnov will be bought-out and will re-inserted

the market.

But the market looks pretty good for the number of defence avalaible...but thats another story.

Edited April 4, 2006 by PB

[kaos]

The winger's clearance has already begun with Sundstrom, Bulis and I would also predict

Zednick to be following them

In that case 2 spots would need be filled.......Latendresse might play junior again and maybe in Hamilton the

following year.......Kostsitsyn had 13 goals in Hamilton this year and might not be asked yet to fullfilled the role of a second line center.

Gainey has said it that the money saved after traiding Theo would be use to re-enforce the team

somewhere else.

That " somewhere else " according to our team's stats should be our offense.

UFA market will have some proven offensive wingers but hardly any centers at all....althought there

room for some surprises,..ex. according to Boston Globe....Zhavnov will be bought-out and will re-inserted

the market.

But the market looks pretty good for the number of defence avalaible...but thats another story.

Kositsyn is not a center and won't be asked to fill such a roll. He only has 13 goals and 40 points in Hamilton, but his season there was interrupted by a callup to Montreal for a month or so as well as the Olypmics. The chemistry he has with Locke in Hamilton, probably would have recorded more points had they not had their time together interrupted.

As for Bulis and Sundstrom being gone, that only moves some of the log jam at the forward position.

There is still Zednik, Ribeiro, Kovalev, Koivu, Ryder, Higgins, Plekanec, Murray, Perezhogin, Begin, Bonk, Downey and Kostitsyn for next year. Nevermind Ferland, Latendresse, Locke, Lapierre or possibly some other suprise rookie could make the team. Maybe unlikely but possible. So there arn't two spots that need to be filled. This team still has an abundance of forwards.

And Montreal has two area's that need addressing. Offense is definitly #1, and an upgrade on defense is number 2.

[CerebusClone]

:hlogo:

I think a guy who would come alot cheaper then Arnott is V. Kozlov (31 yrs old) who with his size and skill just might shine with Kovalev & Kostitsin along side him.

...

Possible AHL help: B. St. Jacques, M. Grenier, J.F Fortin, R. Abid, S. Thornton, B. Simon, D. Oliver, S. Gainey, A. Giroux and M. Ouellet.

We don't need Kozlov. He's another one of those "whole packages" that never even came close to fulfilling their potential. We already have Kovalev and Bonk, we don't need another soft gutless wonder who's probably going to cost a lot of money anyway. Besides, he's terribly inconsistent; he could give you 75 points, he could give 40 points, or he could give you 20 points.... you never know. I'd rather have a lesser skilled, but more consistent player. A guy with character and some grit that will always show up when you need him.

As for the possible AHL help, I also mentionned Ramzi Abid in few weeks ago. With potentially many rookies in Hamilton, we could use some big AHL performers. Like Benoit Gratton truly helped guys like Plekanec and Higgins in their develpement, a guy like Abid could really help Chipchura, Stewart, maybe Aubin (I think he might be elligible for the AHL as he'll turn 20 at the beginning of the season) and the others. It's going to be hard for these guys to put up numbers by playing next to Francis Lemieux, Micheal Lambert, and other ECHL-level players. Also, for all we know, he might surprise everyone at training camp, and actually become a decent power-forward in the NHL... although I wouldn't expect that to happen...

[CerebusClone]

Latendresse might play junior again and maybe in Hamilton the

following year.......Kostsitsyn had 13 goals in Hamilton this year and might not be asked yet to fullfilled the role of a second line center.

Maybe not yet for Kostsitsyn, but you have to consider that for him it was mostly a matter of getting used to North American pro hockey. As we saw last time he was with the Canadiens, unlike other prospects, his skills are already more than adequate for the NHL, and is probably more talented than anyone on the team except Kovalev. If he had been drafted by another team, he might already have over a 100 games worth of NHl experience, and might already be a decent point producer, ready to take the next step. He MUST play with the Canadiens next season, and in his case the step between the AHL and the NHL might not be as steep as it was from Russia to the AHL. If given a decent chance somewhere on the top 3 lines, as well as a bit of power play time, I wouldn't be too surprised if he put up 40-50 points.

[JMMR]

Maybe not yet for Kostsitsyn, but you have to consider that for him it was mostly a matter of getting used to North American pro hockey. As we saw last time he was with the Canadiens, unlike other prospects, his skills are already more than adequate for the NHL, and is probably more talented than anyone on the team except Kovalev. If he had been drafted by another team, he might already have over a 100 games worth of NHl experience, and might already be a decent point producer, ready to take the next step. He MUST play with the Canadiens next season, and in his case the step between the AHL and the NHL might not be as steep as it was from Russia to the AHL. If given a decent chance somewhere on the top 3 lines, as well as a bit of power play time, I wouldn't be too surprised if he put up 40-50 points.

I agree with you that Kostitsyn has to be with the Canadiens next year. But woudl you really want him on the third line. This kid needs to play 15-18 minutes a game to be sucessful. I would really not be happy if he was on the third line. Other than that you are correct he would have played with many other teams and could possibly have put up some impressive numbers thus far.

[CerebusClone]

I agree with you that Kostitsyn has to be with the Canadiens next year. But woudl you really want him on the third line. This kid needs to play 15-18 minutes a game to be sucessful. I would really not be happy if he was on the third line. Other than that you are correct he would have played with many other teams and could possibly have put up some impressive numbers thus far.

I would like to see him on the top 2 scoring lines, but then again, I have no problem with him starting the year on the third. I remember Koivu started on a forth line on his season, but he quickly moved up and was practically the nu,ber 1 center the next center. Playing on a third line won't prevent Kostsitsyn from playing well, he might just not put up as many points as he would playing all season with Koivu and Kovalev.

Also, is he were to play with Plekanec and Higgins, those are pretty good guys to start your career with. They are both good two-way players, and can make up for Kostsitsyn's mistakes (he will make a few in his rookie season). The important thing is that he plays at the NHL level all year so that the next season he can become a regular. He'll learn a few things, improve in some areas, will go through ups and downs, which is exactly what many 2003 top draftees are doing this year, guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Carter, Richards, Seabrook, Bernier, Michalek, Suter, ... While you can look for these guys to improve and be key players next season, Kostsitsyn will be one year behind.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Is anyone willing to wager against Bob and Co. taking a "D" in the 1st round of the draft?

If they don't I'll be surprised.

[simonus]

Is anyone willing to wager against Bob and Co. taking a "D" in the 1st round of the draft?

If they don't I'll be surprised.

I don't know... I'm not a gambling man, but BG does not seem to draft early for need.

[JMMR]

Is anyone willing to wager against Bob and Co. taking a "D" in the 1st round of the draft?

If they don't I'll be surprised.

I will think about it.

How much are you looking wager ? 10-20$