My Personal Evaluation Of The Players This Season

[bar]

I agree that Ryder hasn't been putting the puck in the net on a lot of his chances, but thats a Canadiens trend, so many times a player has the puck skip over their stick, or off their skates, I think it's a team thing, it's how they bond!

All joking aside, what was the expectations of Ryder..I thought they were to score goals, not be a defensive expert, or a great 2 way player? This isn't a flame, just a thought.

What do you all think the expectations was on each player this year? It'd be curious to see what people saw as the roles of the lineup.

Bar

[chief_balthor]

Since the main topic of discussion has now turned to Ryder, maybe someone could do some research for me (cause I'm lazy )

How many other 30 goal scorers made only 1 million or less this year? (including bonuses, cause Crosby and Overchkin were capped for the rookie salaries, but will make like 2.5 mil in bonuses alone)

I think 1 mil for a 30 goal scorer is a great price.

All joking aside, what was the expectations of Ryder..I thought they were to score goals, not be a defensive expert, or a great 2 way player? This isn't a flame, just a thought.

Very good point.

[CerebusClone]

People sure are tough on Ryder, let's see he is leading the team in goal scoring. People are right he isn't a #1 RW, he is a solid #2. He is a goal scorer, he needs his team mates to set him up, he can't set them up. He also doesn't have great speed. Kovalev's line is the one that needs to change, Kovy is a play maker and 25-30 goal scorer, he needs to play with people with higher skill. Ribiero is a puck handler, not a shooter. Also his LW has been different all year. Kovy is the #1 RW. Why are people under rating or not giving credit to the 3rd and 4th liners? Why do you think Buffalo is so successfull, they roll four lines night after night, they all have there roles. This team started playing better when players like Downey, Begin, Murray, even Bonk started playing more and having roles. Let's not forget before injuries the Perez Pleks Murray line was very effective. 3rd and 4th line players make the difference most nights. When those guys are in the line up the habs are a tougher team to play against.

I agree about Buffalo, but their 3rd and 4th line players actually contributed offensively; ours just play well enough not to give up too many goals. Begin got a lot of praise this season, but he still hardly put up 20 points despite some very good ice time, especially in the first half where he even played quite a bit during powerplays. Murray has 6 points, Downey has 5, Bonk only got 21, Sundstrom 15, Perezhogin 19, ...

You can't compare our bottom liners to Buffalo's. Grier and Gaunstad were perhaps their least productive forwards and they got 23 and 24 points. Then you have Derek Roy (46), Hecht (42), Connelly (55), and Pominville (30).

[CerebusClone]

How many other 30 goal scorers made only 1 million or less this year? (including bonuses, cause Crosby and Overchkin were capped for the rookie salaries, but will make like 2.5 mil in bonuses alone)

I think 1 mil for a 30 goal scorer is a great price.

That's exactly how you end up with under achieving teams, and bad draft picks. It's just too easy to look at players' statistics to evaluate their performances. When you do that, you end up drafting guys like Chad Kilger, Eric Chouinard, Pavel Rosa, and Pavel Brendl, signing guys like the "Polish Prince" Czerkawski and Radek Bonk, or resigning players like Mike Ribeiro. At some point, you have to evaluate the players based on how they play, not on the points they put up. For example, if another team signs Marc Savard next season for a large contract hoping he'll be an offesnive leader, I think he'll be a huge flop; between Koivu and Savard, I still pick Koivu.

I don't want to bash Ryder, I like the guy, but I'm just saying that he's not playing up to his potential, and not as well as his 30 goals would indicate. I'm not expecting him to win the Selke, but he needs to make better use of linemates to generate more scoring opportunities for them and also for himself (you give the puck to an open guy, and there's a good chance he'll pass it back to you). I think he actually played better during his rookie season, than this one.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

if another team signs Marc Savard next season for a large contract hoping he'll be an offesnive leader, I think he'll be a huge flop; between Koivu and Savard, I still pick Koivu.

I hope we pick up Savard .

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

For example, if another team signs Marc Savard next season for a large contract hoping he'll be an offesnive leader, I think he'll be a huge flop; between Koivu and Savard, I still pick Koivu.

I don't want to bash Ryder, I like the guy, but I'm just saying that he's not playing up to his potential, and not as well as his 30 goals would indicate. I'm not expecting him to win the Selke, but he needs to make better use of linemates to generate more scoring opportunities for them and also for himself (you give the puck to an open guy, and there's a good chance he'll pass it back to you). I think he actually played better during his rookie season, than this one.

Savard is impossible to assess because of his incrfedible linemates. Those guys would make Mike Ribeiro look like Joe Sakic

As for Ryder, I think your assessment is pretty accurate, but let's remember two things: first, this was his sophomore season; and while he did fall prey to the traditional jynx to some extent, he still bagged 30 and has lots of time to develop those other aspects of his game (it should be noted, too, that he improved his skating, which bodes well). And second, the man is a pure goal scorer. They don't grow on trees - in fact, we haven't had one since, oh, about 1993. If he gets 30 in a bad season, he surely has the potential to evolve into a 40-goal man. So, let's not be TOO critical. He's a very promising young player and probably part of the long-term solution in Montreal.

[brobin]

Put Ryder with Joe Thorton and you might just have another 50 goal scorer in the league.

I also think people are being pretty hard on Ribs. He stuggled at times, but so did every player on the team. He makes a third of what Koivu does and his point totals were well in line for a decent 2nd line center. Sure, we could get a better second line center (for more money), but the same could be said for our first line center.

If we are judging based on expectations, Ribs is at least a C. I also think his game improved immensely with Guy and Gainey behind the bench, which is a very good sign, imo.

[lazy26]

I hope we pick up Savard .

Didn't Savard injure Koivu at one point last season (2003-2004)?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Put Ryder with Joe Thorton and you might just have another 50 goal scorer in the league.

I also think people are being pretty hard on Ribs. He stuggled at times, but so did every player on the team. He makes a third of what Koivu does and his point totals were well in line for a decent 2nd line center. Sure, we could get a better second line center (for more money), but the same could be said for our first line center.

If we are judging based on expectations, Ribs is at least a C. I also think his game improved immensely with Guy and Gainey behind the bench, which is a very good sign, imo.

Yeah, the problem with Ribs is that you can never count on him to step up when you need it, and that he brings nothing except some middling playmaking finesse. He'll do until something better comes along, but I'm pretty sure that Gainey is very interested in finding that something (e.g., Arnott).

[BTH]

I see there are some Downey fans around here. Did any of you see the RDS clip where he tries to teach Komisarek how to fight?

[smon]

Good ratings.

As per Bonk, I remember how some people were getting worked up about how he's such a "great" player because he managed to score a few goals a while back. He really isnt.

[koivu-11]

yea, some of ur evaluations are pretty weird but some are ok but yea umm cote B not no rating he played very well when he was called up.

Learn How To Watch Hockey just kidding lol

Edited April 24, 2006 by koivu-11

[bombTHEice]

I see there are some Downey fans around here. Did any of you see the RDS clip where he tries to teach Komisarek how to fight?

Wasn't it Lapierre?

[shortcat1]

That's exactly how you end up with under achieving teams, and bad draft picks. It's just too easy to look at players' statistics to evaluate their performances. When you do that, you end up drafting guys like Chad Kilger, Eric Chouinard, Pavel Rosa, and Pavel Brendl, signing guys like the "Polish Prince" Czerkawski and Radek Bonk, or resigning players like Mike Ribeiro. At some point, you have to evaluate the players based on how they play, not on the points they put up. For example, if another team signs Marc Savard next season for a large contract hoping he'll be an offesnive leader, I think he'll be a huge flop; between Koivu and Savard, I still pick Koivu.

I don't want to bash Ryder, I like the guy, but I'm just saying that he's not playing up to his potential, and not as well as his 30 goals would indicate. I'm not expecting him to win the Selke, but he needs to make better use of linemates to generate more scoring opportunities for them and also for himself (you give the puck to an open guy, and there's a good chance he'll pass it back to you). I think he actually played better during his rookie season, than this one.

When you do that, you end up drafting guys like Chad Kilger, Eric Chouinard, Pavel Rosa, and Pavel Brendl, signing guys like the "Polish Prince" Czerkawski and Radek Bonk, or resigning players like Mike Ribeiro.

I'm confused about this sentence.

Are you saying that the Canadiens drafted all of those players? They only drafted Chouinard. Kilger played for them but he and the other two were drafted by other teams.

Also, are you saying that one has to look at a player's actual performance instead of his stats? Hmmmm.... how does one evaluate a player's performance without taking into their stats? There is usually a strong connection between both of them.

[BTH]

Wasn't it Lapierre?

Maybe him too but there was also a full page article in the Gazette about him teaching Komisarek.

And to whoever says Bonk is a crap player, think again. He's a great player, strong both ways, experienced and proven and should be a big help to our team in the playoffs.

[olematelot]

I agree with BTH on Bonk, he's doing exactly what BG wants him to do. When talking about Ryder I think some tend to forget this is a guy who was drafted 216th overall. How many 8th round picks are their teams top goal scorer and play on the first line. This guy has gone far beyond what was ever expected of him.

[CerebusClone]

Are you saying that the Canadiens drafted all of those players? They only drafted Chouinard. Kilger played for them but he and the other two were drafted by other teams.

Also, are you saying that one has to look at a player's actual performance instead of his stats? Hmmmm.... how does one evaluate a player's performance without taking into their stats? There is usually a strong connection between both of them.

I only mentionned a few examples that I thought most people would be familiar with.

Of course statistics is one variable that you want to take into considerations, however there are so many factors that can affect them that I think one must be very careful with them. For example, some people were so excited when Czerkawski signed with the Canadiens a few years ago because he was a 30 goal scorer, but quickly changed their minds when they saw him play. Or, if you swap Saku Koivu and Marc Savard, I'm quite sure that their respective stats would be completely different.

[dark_faerie87]

I don't want to bash Ryder, I like the guy, but I'm just saying that he's not playing up to his potential, and not as well as his 30 goals would indicate. I'm not expecting him to win the Selke, but he needs to make better use of linemates to generate more scoring opportunities for them and also for himself (you give the puck to an open guy, and there's a good chance he'll pass it back to you). I think he actually played better during his rookie season, than this one.

I must say, I have to agree with Cerebus. I've felt that Ryder just hasn't had the same work ethic he had during his rookie season. That being said, I think he could have scored 35+ goals and gotten 60-70 points.