Afghanistan-strategic Counsel Says 54% Want Canada Out

[Athlétique.Canadien]

That didn't take long

By the way. My work doesn’t like me on HW. Something to do with I should be working. I haven’t read your response yet. My break is at 2 AST.

Edited September 6, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Athlétique.Canadien]

I dunno about New York being the 'capital of the world' Tokyo could give it a run for its money.

The treaty says we won't attack you if you don't attack us. Osama is in that area and the only way to get to him is by attacking. So by Bush's doctrine Pakistan is "harboring terrorists". Unless of course Georgie is going to change that just like he said if there were leakers found they'd be fired. Then changed it to. if it was criminal and the person was charged.

Now Bush is saying that anyone who disagrees with him are like the Nazi apoligists in the second world war. Yeah keep saying that George and you'll have 5 seats in the house next year.

Yeah AC I know this board mainly tilts to the right. But I have a litmus test that I put on some conservatives and tell them they aren't really conservative.

First thing is abortion and "pro life issues"

Then its making christianity the offical religion

Bombing and invading all of the middle east

privitizing everything and anything

tax cuts for the rich and slashes in benefits to the poor

If you meet any of those criterias then you are a true conservative in the american sense because conservatives in my state have done all 5 in the past year.

That's cool. I have lefty friends so no worries. It's all in good fun. Is there anything worse than a super emotional person sprouting political ideas? If you can't stand the heat...

You're not like that. We may disagree here to China but we still can engage in stimulating topical convos.

PS. One good example? Fast ferries? Good grief. Infrastructure is fine but to drop 430 million on boats that kill the sealife in BC and then sell them as a result for 20 million just is goofy.

Edited September 6, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Pierre the Great]

Yeah some of my friends are the complete opposite of me and can't take it. They start to scream and yell and stuff. I don't like people who can define there political beliefs on a bumper sticker. Thats just cheapening politics and polarizing people.

I don't mind conservatism. I don't think they are the devil. I just don't like the direction some people take it.

Plus then they shout back and do name calling at me. Which is wrong because I don't name call them.

See there has to be some kind of common ground that can link us together on one form or another.

I've gotten my religious conservative friend who is the biggest catholic I know to become an environmentalist. And I mean hard core environmentalist. So much so people in his parish are calling him a liberal now. He's no where near a liberal, just cares about the environment.

See thats real politics, not this yelling at each other calling each other names. We all must agree on some issue or we are doomed to polarization and distrust of each other. We can't live our lives like that.

[Fanpuck33]

1. First thing is abortion and "pro life issues"

2. Then its making christianity the offical religion

3. Bombing and invading all of the middle east

1. Abortion is a horrible thing. If you don't think so, go look at pictures of aborted babies. If you're worried about an excessive birth rate, then tell people to keep it in their pants. This would also decrease the spread of AIDs and other STDs.

2. Yeah, conservatives are trying to make a state religion. Get a grip on reality. Many conservatives do push Christian values, but they aren't trying to make Christianity the legally endorsed religion. That is just silly.

3. How else to you propose to win the war on terror? I just saw an interview with Clinton's secretary of defense, and he agreed completely. The best way to take down terrorism is to take down the radical governments in the Middle East and make the radicals enemies in their own countries. They are radicals, they will only stop attacking if their own people in their own countries start standing against those who are twisting their holy text into guidebook for murder.

Speaking of the Middle East, Iran's president has lost his mind. He is starting to sound like Hitler. Publicly saying he wants to kill all the Jews in Israel is exactly why the UN has to grow a pair and stand up to Iran. They are breaking the rules set forth on them by the UN, they had better do something about it. If they ignore Iran's defiance, then the UN is officially a worthless institution that does nothing for the world.

Plus then they shout back and do name calling at me. Which is wrong because I don't name call them.

Name calling goes both ways. Just because you don't do it, that doesn't mean others with your beliefs don't do so.

[Pierre the Great]

No Fanpuck, guns in the mid east do not work. They never have never will. You have to control them but not cause conflicts because the region has been since the earliest of time a powder keg.

You are turning the debate on abortion into a political tool by showing dead babies. There's more to it then just that. There's a reason why women have been doing this since the begining of time. It will not go away if you ban it. It just will go underground causing more deaths and indangering women.

You don't know what its like, there's more issues at play then just the abortion issue. Its multi faced. Economics, whats going on in that persons life all play apart in this. If you don't fix those problems first, then banning it out right isn't going to solve anything. Its like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound.

My test is about whats been sugested in Missouri. All the things above have been suggested from nuking all of the middle east to creating Christianity as the offical religion to 5 year olds wearing 'kill all the liberals' on little t-shirts at inguations.

Its getting ridiculously out of hand.

State Bill proposes Christianity to be Missouri's offical Religion

http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/030...l.7d361c3f.html

Senate Bill SB 1248 Bans Abortion and all contraceptives in the state of Missouri

http://www.senate.mo.gov/06info/bts_web/Bi...p;BillID=165801

Edited September 6, 2006 by Pierre the Great

[Athlétique.Canadien]

There goes the neighbourhood.

One thing that illustrates how inept these fanatics are is they WANT A HOLY WAR.

Um, no they don't. If it comes to that they'd better buy 24,000 sunblock. However, they fail to realize that this is a reality. Why would they invite that?

What they want is contrary to what would actually happen. Hence, they are either loopy or ignorant.

Of course if that day comes we might want some sunblock too.

By the way PTG. You won't be happy - coming up next on TV 5 - IRAN

Edited September 6, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Pierre the Great]

huh?

thinking that you can change the middle east into the next Europe is a loopy left wing utopian idea.

And don't bring up Europe because that was completely different.

For example a democratic Iraq would become another Iran with the Shia majority. Do you really want that?

A democratic Syria would become another Iran due to its Shia majority.

A democratic Saudi Arabia would become the next Afghanistan.

In the middle east your friend is a dictator that likes you because the 'democratic' movement within those countries are people who want Islamic Republics like Iran.

Islamic Brotherhood in Eygpt for example.

Hezzbollah in Lebanon

Al Sadhr in Iraq

Europe is not a comparison to the Middle East.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

No, I mean it's only a matter of time before we get involved in that mess too.

I don't like it anymore than anyone else.

[Fanpuck33]

No Fanpuck, guns in the mid east do not work. They never have never will. You have to control them but not cause conflicts because the region has been since the earliest of time a powder keg.

And talking to fanatics will solve problems? I don't think so. Fanatics don't listen to reason. They kill people. The only way to defeat them is to make them unwelcome in their own countries and make them outcasts in their society. As long as fanatics are in power in the Middle East, the fanatics will not stop resorting to terrorist activities.

You don't know what its like, there's more issues at play then just the abortion issue. Its multi faced. Economics, whats going on in that persons life all play apart in this. If you don't fix those problems first, then banning it out right isn't going to solve anything. Its like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound.

If you don't want the baby, give it up for adoption. There are many families eager to adopt children, many would be willing to go as far as paying for the delivery of the child. Having an abortion doesn't solve any personal problems. A high percentage of women later regret having an abortion, and some sources say as high as 20% of women go into some degree of clinical depression after an abortion. It is sick that killing innocent, human life is legal.

Senate Bill SB 1248 Bans Abortion and all contraceptives in the state of Missouri

Did you even read this bill? It doesn't seek to ban all contraceptives. It only prohibits those contraceptives, such as the morning after pill, that results in the loss of a potentially impregnated egg. It doesn't ban such contraceptive measures like act to prevent conception.

[Pierre the Great]

I know that Fan puck I miss read the bill during the first reading. This is why it won't pass. Its not 'tough' enough.

Listen you want to solve mid east problems? You can't.

You know the saying can't help someone if they don't want to help themselves. Well apply that to the middle east.

And you want to get off oil? Invest in electric cars but oh wait that means oil companies won't make any money. Oh thats not good. Lets go to Hydrogen that can't run in the winter because its MADE OF WATER SO IT WILL FREEZE!! LOL!

[Fanpuck33]

I know that Fan puck I miss read the bill during the first reading. This is why it won't pass. Its not 'tough' enough.

First of all, it won't pass because it is too broad. Second, abortion is an issue split pretty much right down the middle, so it won't be able to get enough of a majority to pass more than lifely. Third, saying it will not pass because it isn't tough enough is asinine. Anyone with a brain in their head would pass this bill if they agreed with it, even if they want it to be tougher. It's common sense to pass this bill now to prevent a lot of what they want to eliminate in terms of abortion, while waiting till later to try to add on to the bill.

Listen you want to solve mid east problems? You can't. You know the saying can't help someone if they don't want to help themselves. Well apply that to the middle east.

I'm not saying I want to solve the Middle East's problems. I'm saying the way to defeat terrorists is to make them outcasts in their own group. Stopping the terrorists won't solve all the problems of the Middle East, but it will make it so that their problems aren't influencing people to kill Western infidels.

And you want to get off oil? Invest in electric cars but oh wait that means oil companies won't make any money. Oh thats not good. Lets go to Hydrogen that can't run in the winter because its MADE OF WATER SO IT WILL FREEZE!! LOL!

Where did this topic come from?

[Pierre the Great]

Yeah I want to defeat them too but the admistration has created MORE terrorists then defeating them.

Iraq: Has caused the terrorist movement to grow. More people hate us now then ever before.

Afghanistan: We never finished the mission. And everything was going fine until we started to destroy the opium fields instead of telling the farmers why we are destroying them we just went into there fields and started to burn them. This caused even moderates to join the taliban side even though they do not believe in the Taliban because the taliban are the opposition to NATO.

War on Terror: Making it a religious issue. We never have understood nor want to know why these people hate us. They hate there governments which are in good graces to Washington.

Adoption. Yes adoption is great but have you ever been through adoption? Its tough. The woman giving birth is not allowed to see the baby for she might become attached. Then whenever she's walking in the park and sees kids playing with there parents she'll think of what if? The same thing happens to women who have abortions. They get the what if, question all the time. Infact everyone gets a what if, question in there life.

The problem is not getting people pregnant in the first place. It is a human right for a woman or girl to know ALL of her options and to protect herself. Because when push comes to shove the guy leaves the picture and she's all alone.

The best way to stop abortions is to each sexual education and prevention from late elementary school on up.

Adoption is just as hard as getting an abortion.

[Fanpuck33]

Afghanistan: We never finished the mission.

Interesting, since we still have troops there and people dying over there.

War on Terror: Making it a religious issue. We never have understood nor want to know why these people hate us.

It's simple, and yes, it is a religious issue. The people who are attacking the West are Islamic extremists who believe it is their duty to Allah to kill Western infidels.

Adoption is just as hard as getting an abortion.

Let's see here: A woman who has an abortion will wonder "What if I hadn't killed my baby"? The woman who gives her baby up for adoption will wonder "What if I hadn't given my baby up to a family who could provide the love and environment that I knew I could not have done?" Sure, both women will likely regret their decision, but at least the woman who chose adoption doesn't have to live with ending the life of her unborn baby.

You talk about the human right of the mother to consider all her options. An aborted fetus never got to consider any of its options before being killed.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

My big problem with the left is that it's all Fantasy Island

Pierre, c'mon now. Are you going to let me get away with that statement?

Edited September 7, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Pierre the Great]

Yeah and Jane Doe never got consider her options when she was violently raped in a back ally.

What about her? Hmm, you put an unborn fetus ahead of some one who was brutally raped? Tell me what do you tell the girl? Oh I'm sorry but even though you will look at the kid and see your attacker for the rest of your life and it will give you trauma and you just might go insane. You have to keep it.

Come on.

[Fanpuck33]

ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN's post. Edited September 6, 2006 by Fanpuck33

[Pierre the Great]

Your sick.

Do you even know what its like to be sexually assualted? I bet not.

[Fanpuck33]

Your sick.

Do you even know what its like to be sexually assualted? I bet not.

Your post wasn't there yet when I initially went to post the smiley. I was applauding ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN's post. What kind of sick bastard do you think I am? Though, I will admit, that comment made me giggle a little. You make it sound like you know what it is like. (Note: If you have been, then I am obviously in the wrong for saying that and I apologize).

In response to your post, there are obviously some circumstances that challenge any law. Would I accept an abortion in such a case? I don't know. It's like so many ethical dilemma's you see in a typcial college ethics class. Can a woman who is a prisoner of war sleep with a guard if he lets her escape to go back and take care of her children? Is it ok to take a cyanide pill so that you don't give up any information if captured? It's one of those cases where it is impossible to come up with an answer that the majority will agree with.

[Pierre the Great]

I have no idea. I don't know your true political beliefs, but you sound and most of the pro-life people come off cavalierish and prudes when it comes to the issue. Thats why have, a problem with those people because they haven't been there.

They don't know what its like when someone takes that away from you

[Fanpuck33]

Thats why I have a problem with those people because they haven't been there.

They don't know what its like when someone takes that away from you

Just look at Norma L. McCorvey, better known as Jane Roe from the famous Roe v. Wade case that banned laws against abortion in the United States. She lied about being raped to help overturn anti-abortion laws and ended up making abortion a legal practice in all US states. Since then, McCorvery has become an ardent pro-life supported and has made attempts to reopen her Supreme Court case. She's been there. She knows what its like.

[Pierre the Great]

She never had the procedure. She doesn't know what its like.

[Fanpuck33]

She never had the procedure. She doesn't know what its like.

You mean to tell me she went to all that trouble to legalize it and she didn't have one? I guess it makes sense that the baby would have been born well after the final ruling was handed down. What happened to the baby? Did she keep it? Did she give it up for adoption?

Either way, she faced an unwanted child and tried to have an abortion. She may not know what it's like to actually have one, but she certainly knows what it is like to be in that situation.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Abortion? Oh dear. That's a doozy.

I personally feel that society has lost its way. That is, it's become so easy to have an abortion it's treated as the equivalent of ordering a cheeseburger.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm talking about the feeling of being immortal for a limited time. Which, many young people do. I'm not referring to a woman having this thinking after the pregnancy is realized. That's differnent.

But, before it happens, some may just think, "I'll just deal with that then". That's impossible to overcome since people have a right to behave that way. How do you legislate behaviour?

The whole thing is a mess. How do you deal with lack of access like prohibition when it comes to mob abortions? Then people die.

On the other side of the coin how do you deal with the precious gift of life and not treating it like a cheeseburger?

The only solution is to educate. There shouldn't be a price for tragedy. Like rape. Incest should be terminated due to mutations IMO. But, to solve an "inconvienece" as one would a toothache? That's crap.

Typical Canadian searching for common ground I guess.

[Fanpuck33]

How did we even get on this topic? haha.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Yep, this thread is spiraling out of control. It's only because there's NO STINKIN HOCKEY!

Not much longer

go :hlogo:

NFL starts

Edited September 7, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN