Canadiens timing on player moves just right.

[REV-G]

Ok, nobody's perfect. But if you look at some of the moves our habs's management team has made over the past few years, overall they've timed some moves pretty well, which I think is a key reason why our team is looking so much better this year. First, I think most of us agree that moving Theo out at that time and not waiting was a great move. He still had value so besides being able to unload a large salary, they even received value back in return. If they had of waited, they would have had trouble finding someone to take on Theo's salary and they would have continued to have, from what we've read, a not so positive influence in the room. Great timing. The word out of Colorado this morning is that Patrice Brisebois is on his way out We don't have to deal with that now, great move. Ribiero, we're told, was also not a great influence on the team, so we received something back in return and improved team chemistry. I think Claude Julian is a great human being and a good coach, but bringing in Guy Carboneau, and the way he was slowly inserted, not thrown in to sink or swim during a tough stretch last year, was up there with the decision to bring in Bob Gainey. Last week the word out the Habs room was that the atmosphere is now like a family. Holding on to Bonk and getting Mike Johnson, great moves. There's lots more but I think we're seeing evidence that while you can't avoid making some decisions that will come back to bite you, overall we've made some great moves at just the right time, that has resulted in a much improved team with a much better attitude, chemistry and future. There may even still be a few moves to come this year!

[simonus]

i think one could look at a lot of those things differently.

Gainey gave theo a big payday right before he went to pieces. Aebischer, the return piece, has had problems in montreal (last year and in his last few starts) and has basically become a pure backup.

Sure it is nice to not have ribeiro, but now we have no 2nd line centre and we have the niinimaa contract that either needs to be justified in the future or gotten rid of. Niinimaa will be harder to move than ribeiro was.

All that being said, I am a big fan of both Gainey and Carbo and Im happy to be rid of theo and ribs...

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Ok, nobody's perfect. But if you look at some of the moves our habs's management team has made over the past few years, overall they've timed some moves pretty well, which I think is a key reason why our team is looking so much better this year.

As with anything. Nothing is going to go perfectly 100% of the time. Ribeiro gone is great but Niinimaa is leaving a lot to be desired.

But, when all is said and done. When you add it all up, the org deserves an excellent grade nonetheless.

I will also take the time to defend Aebischer. He is struggling now but has a lot to do with many of our early victories. He was playing back then like Huet is now

Edited December 4, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[brobin]

All we got for Ribs was someone else's salary problem. Bad trade imo, but you can't win them all. Obviously, Bob was hoping for Niinimaa to turn it around. He might eventually, but odds are getting longer. Meanwhile, Ribs is having a good season and we still don't have a 2nd line center.

I thought he did well on the Theo trade, given Theo was in an absolute collapse, and very pricey.

I think Bonk makes the Habs a better team, not as a top center, but as the veteran defensive center we needed.

[Dalhabs]

Isnt Niinima an UFA after this season? We sent away locker-room pest Ribeiro and his salary without having to ruin our own salarycap if thats true.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Isnt Niinima an UFA after this season? We sent away locker-room pest Ribeiro and his salary without having to ruin our own salarycap if thats true.

We took a 600,000 hit on the cap getting Niinimaa. He's severly handcuffing Bob's trade option because he's lousy. Getting rid of Ribs was nice but the return is really a bummer. It's turning into a bad trade.

He is UFA

Edited December 4, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[BTH]

We took a 600,000 hit on the cap getting Niinimaa. He's severly handcuffing Bob's trade option because he's lousy. Getting rid of Ribs was nice but the return is really a bummer. It's turning into a bad trade.

He is UFA

Trading Ribeiro is addition by subtraction. Even if he scores goals, he's still distracting the team and hurting us. We needed more bodies on D so Gainey added one. Not only to we get rid of a problem, but we add a depth defenceman so that Traverse is no longer our 7th defenceman. A crucial aspect of the deal is that Niinimaa becomes a UFA after this season - this was the best way to dump Ribeiro's salary. We take a small gain this season but then end up saving a good amount during the offseason when we need it most. Can oyu imagine the problems we'd have signing Markov, Souray and Rivet if we'd have Ribeiro's 1.9 million on the books next year?

I like the trade.

[simonus]

Trading Ribeiro is addition by subtraction. Even if he scores goals, he's still distracting the team and hurting us. We needed more bodies on D so Gainey added one. Not only to we get rid of a problem, but we add a depth defenceman so that Traverse is no longer our 7th defenceman. A crucial aspect of the deal is that Niinimaa becomes a UFA after this season - this was the best way to dump Ribeiro's salary. We take a small gain this season but then end up saving a good amount during the offseason when we need it most. Can oyu imagine the problems we'd have signing Markov, Souray and Rivet if we'd have Ribeiro's 1.9 million on the books next year?

I like the trade.

Without Niinimaa, Traverse would be, at best, our 8th defenseman. That being said, Niinimaa was quite useful when both dandenault and bouillon were out.

Ribeiro's contract is up at the end of the year, so there is no cap saving by acquiring Niinimaa.

[shortcat1]

on the whole, i'm quite pleased with the overall trades thing with the canadiens over the last few years...

not that my pleasure is a consideration in their decisions...

GO :hlogo: GO!

[BTH]

Without Niinimaa, Traverse would be, at best, our 8th defenseman. That being said, Niinimaa was quite useful when both dandenault and bouillon were out.

Ribeiro's contract is up at the end of the year, so there is no cap saving by acquiring Niinimaa.

But at the time of the trade, Bouillon was injured long-term. And a week or two later, Dandenault went down.

You're right, Ribeiro signed a one-year contract so that point is valid. But the fact that we got a semi-useful player for a problem is comforting. It won't get my vote for trade of the century, but it definitely wasn't a bad move.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I agree that Niinimaa has sucked ass, but can we please at least admit that the guy has been played on the wrong side all season and thus, set up to fail? We won't be able to assess his value properly until he plays on his natural side, if he ever does.

In any case, that trade was a reasonable gamble, which is all I ask. It's not like Odelein for Richer or something. Besides, the Garon and Balej trades compensate for a lot of mistakes

[sbhatt]

The only move I'm truly pissed off about was a non-move, and that's not signing Perrault for a measly 500K. He'd look pretty damn good centering the second line IMO.

[C-Love]

The only move I'm truly pissed off about was a non-move, and that's not signing Perrault for a measly 500K.

I often wondered why BG never jumped on that as well. He had a great year last season and for that amount of money he is no risk at all, especially now with our recent faceoff problems. He seemed like a steal at under a million.

[Fanny]

I often wondered why BG never jumped on that as well. He had a great year last season and for that amount of money he is no risk at all, especially now with our recent faceoff problems. He seemed like a steal at under a million.

I'd also have to agree about Perreault.

And with respect to the Niniimaa / Ribeiro trade, whoever said it was a decent gamble said everything I needed to say. Niniimaa isn't great, but we needed a D, and we needed it NOT to be Patrick Reverse. And anything to get rid of Mickey Ribs is a good thing.

[JMMR]

I have to disagree on Perreault he is a player who can win face-offs and put up some offensive numbers but he is deadweight in his own zone if he loses a face-off. He for the most part in unwilling to battle with other centres for free pucks. Sure he has 8 goals in 13 games with the Yotes but that is a team with 0 chance for a playoff spot with guys like JR and Nolan he is able to keep up but if you place him with the Habs he would look as slow as Jason Alison with 5kg back pack on.

The Habs moves have been good, Hossa for Murray was a good trade Hossa is still a useless player in New York despite creating scoring chances he is still unable to finish, Garth struggled to start the year but is improving in the face off circle and landing more hits each game.

Niinimaa was a good addition as BTH said by subtraction. Zednik for a 3rd and Johnson for a 4th was a spectacular move

dealing Theo's contract was amazing.

Samsonov has not paid off yet but I really hope something will change soon and he will start scoring.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

A crucial aspect of the deal is that Niinimaa becomes a UFA after this season - this was the best way to dump Ribeiro's salary.

I like the trade.

I know, what I mean is Niinimaa has absorbed our short term "bubble" in cap. If Bob wanted to trade a 2 million player for a 4 million player he cannot because Niinimaa came in.

Losing Ribs is great. But the return is a bust and this "bubble" issue is what I'm bummed out about.

I understand your point of view about D depth. I just wish he was better than he is right now.

The "bubble" problem won't be one in February or March but if a sweet deal came along to Bob now, the Niinimaa cost (RIGHT NOW) might kill the trade

An easy way to put this is - wouldn't it be nice if Niinimaa was desired by a rival GM in a trade. Who want's him and why is he our highest paid D?

Edited December 5, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Chris]

Isn't it only a 650k swing in salary. Ninimaa 2.5 mill and Ribiero was 1.9. It only took 650k off the cap which basically was taken care of by injuries to Dandy and Bouillon.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Isn't it only a 650k swing in salary. Ninimaa 2.5 mill and Ribiero was 1.9. It only took 650k off the cap which basically was taken care of by injuries to Dandy and Bouillon.

It was 650K. My point is, imagine hypothetically that Gomez is on his way to MTL and Lou wants a D. Well, we can hardly absorb Gomez in cap EVEN if we were to move Souray. If Niinimaa was better right now than we might have been able to ship him out for a pick after the D was healthy. Niinimaa and Souray's salary going out might make it easier to get a Gomez or whoever....

...BUT, we can't do that now.

All for what? Janne eating popcorn in the box.

Edited December 5, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[brobin]

Unfortunately for the "addition by subtraction" theory, there is no evidence supporting it.

Our record is not much different from last year (and it should be better). We have trouble scoring, and the second line is absolutely horrible.

I firmly believe that our second line would be better right now with Ribs. I also doubt he hurt team chemistry, since they got rid of Theo and Dags. I am sure Ribs would have been traded eventually, but that particular trade did not work out.

If getting rid of Ribs was so great, why not just put him on waivers and save the cost of Niinimaa's salary. I will tell you why, because they believed Niinimaa would be in our top 6 defense men. I am sure they thought he would be top 4 and they could trade Souray or someone. Didn't work out, plain and simple. If Gainey could go back, I am sure he would not have made the deal, but kept looking for something better.

[BTH]

Unfortunately for the "addition by subtraction" theory, there is no evidence supporting it.

Our record is not much different from last year (and it should be better). We have trouble scoring, and the second line is absolutely horrible.

I firmly believe that our second line would be better right now with Ribs. I also doubt he hurt team chemistry, since they got rid of Theo and Dags. I am sure Ribs would have been traded eventually, but that particular trade did not work out.

If getting rid of Ribs was so great, why not just put him on waivers and save the cost of Niinimaa's salary. I will tell you why, because they believed Niinimaa would be in our top 6 defense men. I am sure they thought he would be top 4 and they could trade Souray or someone. Didn't work out, plain and simple. If Gainey could go back, I am sure he would not have made the deal, but kept looking for something better.

If they put him on waivers, he probably wouldn't have been claimed since a team has to take in a full $1.9M in capspace for a player who puts up so-so numbers and is rumoured to have a bad attitude. That means he'd be sent down to the Bulldogs and he'll waste away on the farm, while we pay him. We might as well have some D depth. I'm sure Gainey expected, or atleast was hoping, that Niinimaa would do better than he has - but I believe Gainey's first priority in this trade was to get rid of Ribeiro and that his second was to get the best return possible.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

If they put him on waivers, he probably wouldn't have been claimed since a team has to take in a full $1.9M in capspace for a player who puts up so-so numbers and is rumoured to have a bad attitude. That means he'd be sent down to the Bulldogs and he'll waste away on the farm, while we pay him. We might as well have some D depth. I'm sure Gainey expected, or atleast was hoping, that Niinimaa would do better than he has - but I believe Gainey's first priority in this trade was to get rid of Ribeiro and that his second was to get the best return possible.

I don't think there's a big difference in the varying opinions here. It makes me cringe to say I don't like the trade because I consider Gainey God like.

Having said that I cannot pretend to like this trade because Gainey made it so it's obviously wonderful. It pains me to say it but it's not looking to be a good trade right now.

On the bright side, if this is our biggest concern we are OK

Edited December 5, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[smon]

I have no doubt that Gainey was convinced that Ninimaa could return to his play as of several seasons ago. He was once a real good player, the kind who was the workhorse on the Oilers blueline and later for the Isles. After the lockout though, his play declined terribly. Dallas took a gamble acquiring him but he didn't crack their lineup this year, so they sent him here for a player Montreal was desperate to unload.

Was it a good trade? In terms of asset to asset, no. Yes, Ribiero wasn't exactly wanted by every team in the league, but if they wanted to dump him they could get a pick or such in return. Gainey wanted a defender, he got one, a cap burden but one who might just be a good thing. Obviously he isn't, but there's nothing they can do.

Better to let him sit for now, and waive him near the deadline for cap room.

[Colin]

a) Good riddance to Ribeiro, whatever the cost. There's a reason there's so much talk about the team being like a family now, and that's having gotten rid of the cancer. Niinimaa hasn't been all that and a bag of chips at all, but when he played, he was decent enough. Add to that the rumours that Ribeiro is already creeping in the doghouse in Dallas...

B) Perreault? Yes, he's scored plenty of goals, and good on him. But can you really imagine a line with Sammy, Perreault and Kovy? That's laughable. They might combine for one hit all year and probably would never find their own zone. Perreault has his uses, but I don't think he's really a fit for this team anymore.

[Oleg Petrov]

I always liked Yanic Perreault, but by the time he left Montreal, he was dead weight, an old player blocking young development. I'm happy he's doing so well, but there's a reason he couldn't get a contract with Nashville again, and a reason why the only team that would sign him for almost minimum wage was Phoenix. Yes, he scores goals and wins faceoffs, but his plus-minus was usually the worst on the Habs, from what I remember, he made the team smaller, and the team lost more with him in the lineup. (Same thing with Ribeiro - I loved watching him, but I don't think he made the team win games as much as he does by not being in the city.)

That said, the second line is a defensive catastrophe right now, even with Plekanec involved, so it's hard to imagine they'd be much worse with Perreault, and at least then they might score some goals. But I'm optimistic that this line will get sorted out eventually, especially with the new possibilities tied to Higgins' return. There's only so many spots on the bench, and if you have a declining Perreault in one of them that's one more retirement that has to happen before Kostitsyn gets in the game.

Again, I wish him all the success in the world. I think he had rough treatment while he was here, and he was vital to the Canadiens making the playoffs without Koivu in 02.

[Haboholic]

Everyone is bringing up good points here... but no one can really complain about the moves bob gainey has done since the Habs ARE WINNING!

geez man, were winning, obviously what gainey did were the right moves.

if the habs are winning even with, according to some ppl, the underachievments of Niinimaa and Samsonov, this team could only get better!

so no worries mate!