So Long Souray?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

People need to wake up and smell the coffee. Souray is an all-star, almost a superstar. He has had extended stretches before where he's played at that level, and this season, with his personal problems behind him and relatively healthy, he's put it all together. ONLY in Montreal do people fail to realize what a force this guy is; he's in the top-5 of offensive defencemen in the entire league, and it's not some fluke.

Therefore, we should approach Souray the way we would approach ANY top-5 d-man who is available on the market. We should want him, and want to sign him for a competitive price. $5 mil is reasonable. $6 mil is pushing it. If I were Gainey I would look very hard at signing him for $5.5. If there's ANY way we can do that without decimating our cap space or gutting the team, then we gotta do it.

Edited December 18, 2006 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[JoeLassister]

If I was Gainey , I would give 4,5 mils to Souray and 1 more to bring his daughter in Montreal HA HA.

Souray = Lethal PP Weapon dont let the Sharks or Kings use it ...

Don Cherry strongly argues Habs should re-sign Souray -- I'm conflicted .

[kaos]

Therefore, we should approach Souray the way we would approach ANY top-5 d-man who is available on the market. We should want him, and want to sign him for a competitive price. $5 mil is reasonable. $6 mil is pushing it. If I were Gainey I would look very hard at signing him for $5.5. If there's ANY way we can do that without decimating our cap space or gutting the team, then we gotta do it.

If you Montreal gives Souray between $5 and $6 Million a year, you'll be saying the same thing peopel in Toronto are saying right now about Pavel Kubina, Bryan McCabe and Hall Gill. There overpaid and not worth it. This is a career year for Souray. He most likely cannot keep his point pace up. He most likely cannot stay healthy, never has been able to. And he's never going to get better defensively. The only reason everybody is so high on him right now is that he's popping more goals then anybody else and driving this team offensively. Shortly he'll probably go into a slump and we'll see a different tune being sung about Sheldon Souray.

Don't get me wrong, I like him, and think he's a very good player, and I'd love for him to stay in Montreal. But not at $5 to $6 Million per year. Especially when Markov would deserve even more, being the better all around defensman

[Mont Royale]

I really don't see any point in trading him. People keep assuming that the decision is between risking getting nothing for him in the summer and getting some huge windfall if he's dealt at the deadline; that's just not the case. Somebody else said it here, the Leafs couldn't get a box of Kleenex for McCabe at the deadline last year, and the only team that would wisely be ready to give something decent for Souray would be a team that is having a hot season and has an exceptional chance of doing better in the playoffs than usual and just needs that extra something to put them over the top...like...say...the Montreal Canadiens. So I think if the Habs can't resign Souray before the deadline, they should trade him to Montreal. If Montreal's smart, they'll give a good young prospect and a draft pick for Souray.

I fully agree with your assessment... the Montreal Canadiens should snap him up!

[ShortHanded]

We're too good of a team to trade him now or at the deadline. I'd rather lose him in the offseason for nothing (IF and it's a big IF we can't sign him then) then trade him at the deadline for a bag of Kleenex (like someone said about McCabe). We have a chance this year. If we can't win it all, and we can't resign him, and we lose him for nothing as a UFA, I promise I won't be one of the ones complaining about it.

[Easy Ryder]

Keep him for the Cup contention is my opinion too.

Next year we will have enought experienced defencemen to

take part of him. Put more money on Markov and give Emelin the one way contract that he wish for before we lose him. Rivet ?? goodbye...

Anyway how i see defense next year

Markov- Komisarek

Bouillon - Boyle?!?

Emelin- Dandenault

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

We're too good of a team to trade him now or at the deadline. I'd rather lose him in the offseason for nothing (IF and it's a big IF we can't sign him then) then trade him at the deadline for a bag of Kleenex (like someone said about McCabe). We have a chance this year. If we can't win it all, and we can't resign him, and we lose him for nothing as a UFA, I promise I won't be one of the ones complaining about it.

Well, point taken, but see how you feel next December when we're scrounging for a playoff spot because our PP is merely average. I agree that Souray's health is a concern, but disagree that he's just on a hot streak. He's certainly a 50-point, 20-goal D-man, at least. One thing to consider is that he's 30 now, and that's about the right age for a hulking defenceman with sick offensive skills to put it all together (Dmen traditionally take longer to blossom than forwards). We could be looking at another 3-4 seasons, not of point-per-game production, but certainly of a top-3 PP quarterback.

IF we could get a less stellar offesnive D-man for around $3 mil to replace him, then I suppose the case can be made. The problem is the complete lack of any top-tier defencemen in our system; we're forced to rely either on trades of free agency.

It's funny how elite defencemen are so often dismissed by their own fans. In Vancouver, they used to routinely whine about Jovo's defnesive lapses...nobody whined in Montreal when Chelios was traded away...weird.

Edited December 18, 2006 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Even IF he's going to leave, unless a meltdown happens, I think we need to keep him. I think I might just be hopelessly optimistic, but I beleive we have a real chance this year: grade A goaltending, under rated defense, speedy forwards, killer special teams.

I don't like comparing teams, but honestly is there much that seperates us from Buffalo? We've proven we can skate with them. I wish we'd get to play the Ducks more to see how we matched up with them.

There is no team in the league that has been as much of an albatross around Buffalo's necks than the Habs and I'm sure Sabres fans would admit that too.

And, for the exception of Anaheim, Buffalo is supposedly THE BEST?

Edited December 18, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Jersey would kill us in the playoffs. :puke:

[OneSharpMarble]

I also think this is a banner year for Souray, will it be like this again for him? Who knows, I doubt it though. He isn't good enough defensivly though and the person we trade for could more then make up for his offensive capabilities.

I would sign Markov as he is one of the best in the league and deal Souray to get our second line center. If that center gets Kovalev scoring again we will have 3 great lines all working. We sign him for 6 million and he get 40points or less, or maybe his wrist gets injured he will be our own Kubina.

Hey cucumber how do you figure he is a 50 point/20 goal D-man? He has never gotten those numbers in his career and now that he is on a hot streak we should give him the farm? I dont think so. He's not worth 6 million.

[sakiqc]

So, Souray will be traded to a Cup contender team. Alright, but what if that "Cup contender" team is the Habs? Would we trade for an elite soon-to-be UFA? Would we trade Plekanec for a player like Souray? Yes we might. So why would we trade Souray for a guy like Plekanec? We don't need another Plekanec. We would keep Souray.

But considering our depth at D, we could trade Souray and Plekanec for an upgrade on Plekanec. And if Gainey do, I hope that's an huge upgrade.

I really don't see any point in trading him. People keep assuming that the decision is between risking getting nothing for him in the summer and getting some huge windfall if he's dealt at the deadline; that's just not the case. Somebody else said it here, the Leafs couldn't get a box of Kleenex for McCabe at the deadline last year, and the only team that would wisely be ready to give something decent for Souray would be a team that is having a hot season and has an exceptional chance of doing better in the playoffs than usual and just needs that extra something to put them over the top...like...say...the Montreal Canadiens. So I think if the Habs can't resign Souray before the deadline, they should trade him to Montreal. If Montreal's smart, they'll give a good young prospect and a draft pick for Souray.

Haha, just read your post.. I followed the same logical process. Souray is what the Habs need!

[smon]

I don't think Montreal can or should trade Souray. There's no one who can replace his goals on the PP. And besides, better to take your chances then to trade him for junk.

[OneSharpMarble]

So, Souray will be traded to a Cup contender team. Alright, but what if that "Cup contender" team is the Habs? Would we trade for an elite soon-to-be UFA? Would we trade Plekanec for a player like Souray? Yes we might. So why would we trade Souray for a guy like Plekanec? We don't need another Plekanec. We would keep Souray.

But considering our depth at D, we could trade Souray and Plekanec for an upgrade on Plekanec. And if Gainey do, I hope that's an huge upgrade.

Haha, just read your post.. I followed the same logical process. Souray is what the Habs need!

We could get a better center than Plekanec for Souray alone right now, that is the point. Plekanec could go to the fourth line and our new center would go to the second, we could even toss Samsonov in on the deal to get someone even better.

[simonus]

We could get a better center than Plekanec for Souray alone right now, that is the point. Plekanec could go to the fourth line and our new center would go to the second, we could even toss Samsonov in on the deal to get someone even better.

out of curiosity, who could we get for souray? That is to say, which team/player might you have in mind that could be involved in a trade?

[BTH]

I also think this is a banner year for Souray, will it be like this again for him? Who knows, I doubt it though. He isn't good enough defensivly though and the person we trade for could more then make up for his offensive capabilities.

I would sign Markov as he is one of the best in the league and deal Souray to get our second line center. If that center gets Kovalev scoring again we will have 3 great lines all working. We sign him for 6 million and he get 40points or less, or maybe his wrist gets injured he will be our own Kubina.

Hey cucumber how do you figure he is a 50 point/20 goal D-man? He has never gotten those numbers in his career and now that he is on a hot streak we should give him the farm? I dont think so. He's not worth 6 million.

If he doesn't hit those point totals this season then it'll be a huge shock. He's on pace for 75+ points this season, as of now. And that's after he got a reputation for having a booming shot from the point (the other team always rushes in to stop him).

Is he worth 6M? No. If we could keep him for 6M and still have a competitive team, would we? definitely - he's an extremely valuable part of our team.

[OneSharpMarble]

out of curiosity, who could we get for souray? That is to say, which team/player might you have in mind that could be involved in a trade?

Heh if I do toss out names I am sure there will be many reasons why my suggestions are outright shot down as I am not a professional scout. If you want a few random centers that I think we could make a play for that could really help out our second line I will indulge you.

- Lecavalier - Yeah I know TB probably wont trade him but it's a nice thought since TB is looking so bad right now who knows.

- Marleau - I'm dreaming but if Souray is looking as hot to everyone else as we think why couldnt we toss in someone else and have a respectable offer?

- Perrault - I think we could get him and maybe a draft pick for Souray, i'd have no problem seeing him come back, he has been playing remarkably well.

- Mike York or Sillinger - The Islanders have 3 fairly hot centers, I doubt they would part with Yashin so why not one of these?

- Todd White - I was gonna say Demitra but this guy has some impressive stats and I think he would make a good 2nd line center. Toss in a draft pick for us and I think it would be fair.

- Cammalleri - We would have to give them something with Souray but this guy would be a great second line center.

I dunno I am just tossing names out there, I didn't check out salaries or contracts etc so don't take any of these too seriously, just some fun.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Hey cucumber how do you figure he is a 50 point/20 goal D-man? He has never gotten those numbers in his career and now that he is on a hot streak we should give him the farm? I dont think so. He's not worth 6 million.

A little Souray math:

In 2003-04 he got 15 goals and 20 assists in 63 games. That works out to about 20 goals and 46 points in 82 games, even though he *really* struggled offensively upon returning from an injury that year. (The wrist mucked up his shot).

It seems fair to ignore his first half numbers from last season, because his messy personal problems that obviously screwed up his game, big time. But his numbers from Jan 3 onward come to 10 goals and 26 pts in 44 games - good for 19 goals and 48 points extrapolated over 82 games.

This season, of course, he's on a ridiculously torrid pace: 30 goals, 76 points.

So, when he's healthy and not getting divorced, and assuming his current run to be exceptionally good, we can conclude that Souray is a 20 goal, 50 point guy. Those are not his totals during a 'hot streak' - those are what we can reasonably expect from him, based on the last three seasons.

You also have to consider what I said about hulking defencemen typically being late bloomers. He may in fact be better than 20/50.

Now you can legitimately point out that he's NOT always healthy. And he will always have the occasional howler of a defensive breakdown. But there's also intangibles like his physical presence and leadership as well - surely these compensate to some degree for his defensive limitations, which are really not THAT huge.

Bottom line: a massive offensive force, tons of leadership, great size, some occasional defensive lapses. $5.5 mil is not unreasonable for a player of this profile. A top-10 d-man for sure.

[BTH]

A little Souray math:

In 2003-04 he got 15 goals and 20 assists in 63 games. That works out to about 20 goals and 46 points in 82 games, even though he *really* struggled offensively upon returning from an injury that year. (The wrist mucked up his shot).

It seems fair to ignore his first half numbers from last season, because his messy personal problems that obviously screwed up his game, big time. But his numbers from Jan 3 onward come to 10 goals and 26 pts in 44 games - good for 19 goals and 48 points extrapolated over 82 games.

This season, of course, he's on a ridiculously torrid pace: 30 goals, 76 points.

So, when he's healthy and not getting divorced, and assuming his current run to be exceptionally good, we can conclude that Souray is a 20 goal, 50 point guy. Those are not his totals during a 'hot streak' - those are what we can reasonably expect from him, based on the last three seasons.

You also have to consider what I said about hulking defencemen typically being late bloomers. He may in fact be better than 20/50.

Now you can legitimately point out that he's NOT always healthy. And he will always have the occasional howler of a defensive breakdown. But there's also intangibles like his physical presence and leadership as well - surely these compensate to some degree for his defensive limitations, which are really not THAT huge.

Bottom line: a massive offensive force, tons of leadership, great size, some occasional defensive lapses. $5.5 mil is not unreasonable for a player of this profile. A top-10 d-man for sure.

Case closed.

[OneSharpMarble]

A little Souray math:

In 2003-04 he got 15 goals and 20 assists in 63 games. That works out to about 20 goals and 46 points in 82 games, even though he *really* struggled offensively upon returning from an injury that year. (The wrist mucked up his shot).

It seems fair to ignore his first half numbers from last season, because his messy personal problems that obviously screwed up his game, big time. But his numbers from Jan 3 onward come to 10 goals and 26 pts in 44 games - good for 19 goals and 48 points extrapolated over 82 games.

This season, of course, he's on a ridiculously torrid pace: 30 goals, 76 points.

So, when he's healthy and not getting divorced, and assuming his current run to be exceptionally good, we can conclude that Souray is a 20 goal, 50 point guy. Those are not his totals during a 'hot streak' - those are what we can reasonably expect from him, based on the last three seasons.

You also have to consider what I said about hulking defencemen typically being late bloomers. He may in fact be better than 20/50.

Now you can legitimately point out that he's NOT always healthy. And he will always have the occasional howler of a defensive breakdown. But there's also intangibles like his physical presence and leadership as well - surely these compensate to some degree for his defensive limitations, which are really not THAT huge.

Bottom line: a massive offensive force, tons of leadership, great size, some occasional defensive lapses. $5.5 mil is not unreasonable for a player of this profile. A top-10 d-man for sure.

These aren't conclusive at all, you are cutting and pasting the stats to fit. Thats like me saying since Lapierre has a point a game so far so he is easily an 80 point per season player! We both know that is ridiculous. We don't know how the divorce effected him so you cant just chop half his season off.

I dunno looking at his record he has only played a couple full seasons over his career so it would be very fair to assume he is injury prone. For me if we could get a solid centerman who will play a whole season we could not only more then replace his points but we could do it on even strenght which is our main weakness.

[BTH]

These aren't conclusive at all, you are cutting and pasting the stats to fit. Thats like me saying since Lapierre has a point a game so far so he is easily an 80 point per season player! We both know that is ridiculous. We don't know how the divorce effected him so you cant just chop half his season off.

I dunno looking at his record he has only played a couple full seasons over his career so it would be very fair to assume he is injury prone. For me if we could get a solid centerman who will play a whole season we could not only more then replace his points but we could do it on even strenght which is our main weakness.

It's not his offensive point totals that are hard to replace, it's his offensive presence that very few guys in the league have. Everyone's scared of him and he draws defenders right to him, leaving are other offensive players open.

[OneSharpMarble]

It's not his offensive point totals that are hard to replace, it's his offensive presence that very few guys in the league have. Everyone's scared of him and he draws defenders right to him, leaving are other offensive players open.

I am pretty sure a dangerous center teamed with Kovalev could easily replace both his points and his presence.

[BTH]

I am pretty sure a dangerous center teamed with Kovalev could easily replace both his points and his presence.

We got Samsonov and people said he and Kovalev would have career years. No dice. What Kovalev brings is more presence than an actual threat. Which is good - until people figure out that he's not at all as scary as they once thought he was.

[OneSharpMarble]

We got Samsonov and people said he and Kovalev would have career years. No dice. What Kovalev brings is more presence than an actual threat. Which is good - until people figure out that he's not at all as scary as they once thought he was.

LoL who thought Samsonov would have a career season? I figured he would do the same as he did in edmonton which isnt that much. Give Kovalev a better center and wingman or put him back with Koivu and you will see him become the threat he is known for.

I think Plekanec is great but those three just dont work together. Carbo needs to mix that line up, its ridiculous why he hasn't. Face it our PP is dominating right now, giving Souray all his shots and the majority of his points. If that goes cold will Souray step up his game? Probably not, hes not a Pronger.

Still not worth 5.5million.

[BTH]

LoL who thought Samsonov would have a career season? I figured he would do the same as he did in edmonton which isnt that much. Give Kovalev a better center and wingman or put him back with Koivu and you will see him become the threat he is known for.

I think Plekanec is great but those three just dont work together. Carbo needs to mix that line up, its ridiculous why he hasn't. Face it our PP is dominating right now, giving Souray all his shots and the majority of his points. If that goes cold will Souray step up his game? Probably not, hes not a Pronger.

Still not worth 5.5million.

I don't think you were around here during the preseason but there were threads about who our leading scorers would be and stuff. Many people had high expectations for him, myself included.

I never said Souray is really WORTH the 5.5M. Just that I wouldn't mind overpaying to keep him here, if we were able to.

[HABBER-oooooKNOWS]

A little Souray math:

In 2003-04 he got 15 goals and 20 assists in 63 games. That works out to about 20 goals and 46 points in 82 games, even though he *really* struggled offensively upon returning from an injury that year. (The wrist mucked up his shot).

It seems fair to ignore his first half numbers from last season, because his messy personal problems that obviously screwed up his game, big time. But his numbers from Jan 3 onward come to 10 goals and 26 pts in 44 games - good for 19 goals and 48 points extrapolated over 82 games.

This season, of course, he's on a ridiculously torrid pace: 30 goals, 76 points.

So, when he's healthy and not getting divorced, and assuming his current run to be exceptionally good, we can conclude that Souray is a 20 goal, 50 point guy. Those are not his totals during a 'hot streak' - those are what we can reasonably expect from him, based on the last three seasons.

You also have to consider what I said about hulking defencemen typically being late bloomers. He may in fact be better than 20/50.

Now you can legitimately point out that he's NOT always healthy. And he will always have the occasional howler of a defensive breakdown. But there's also intangibles like his physical presence and leadership as well - surely these compensate to some degree for his defensive limitations, which are really not THAT huge.

Bottom line: a massive offensive force, tons of leadership, great size, some occasional defensive lapses. $5.5 mil is not unreasonable for a player of this profile. A top-10 d-man for sure.

Don't forget he can beat the snot out of anybody when he feels like it!!!!!!!