habsFan1986
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Posts posted by habsFan1986
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42 minutes ago, Commandant said:
You've made no points whatsoever that support the idea that in 5 years the entire 23 man roster is to be replaced... including players like Gallagher who is 25, and Pacioretty and Price who are in their prime.
Drafting and development need to be improved, no doubt about that. But the idea you have is completely unrealistic and you have shown me no competitive team that has done this (wiped out every player acquired by the previous regime).
Even the Leafs who might have the most dramatic overhaul we've seen, have Nazem Kadri. Jake Gardiner, Morgan Rielly, James van Riemsdyk, and Tyler Bozak all in key roles and all acquired by a previous regime. The idea that a new regime has to completely erase the previous one is not something that any NHL team can or would follow.
Edmonton traded away Hall to fill a void on D, Nashville traded away jones to fill a void at centre, hawks traded away panarin to fill a void.
reason why bozak and kadri are still leafs is the same reason plekanec is still a hab. There’s no one else to fill the hole. Once they have someone to fill there holes they will be traded.
i Didn’t say you turn over your hole roster. You draft players and develop players to add depth to your team , so that if your weak in one area you can trade a player like max to fill those weaknesses and have someone in your system to fill in and have your team improve.
you might understand it this way. We traded PK and let markov walk but we have no one that can fill those rolls. We added one strength but created 2 weakness. Why because of our drafting , player development and depth being bad. You don’t trade a guy like PK , and let a guy like markov walk unless you have someone in your system that can replace him.
Nashville traded away Jones to fill a hole at center because through strong drafting and player development they HAVE THE DEPTH to bring someone up to replace him.
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23 minutes ago, Commandant said:
If we had a talented goalscorer in the system, i would keep both... to have two talented goal scorers on the team.
But again you wanted to Push the entire group out, including price, pacioretty and gallagher. That is not realistic for a GM in five years to push out the entire team he inherits.
The Job of the GM is to take what he has, augment it, and make it stronger. not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
You have made no good points to this, this is why the habs are where they are today and won’t win a cup anytime soon.
i think it’s tome to end this debate.
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5 minutes ago, huzer said:
I mention top 2 because in many cases, the #2 could have been the number one overall. Hedman, Doughty, There aren't many 3,4,5 players on par with Stamkos, Kane, and Ovechkin, for instance.
I also don't want to sound like a Bergevin apologist, but shouldn't some blame by cast on previous GMs for development/drafting. 2006-2011 (with the exception of 2007) yielded relatively few NHLers. Given, what, a 3-5 year lead time for a pick to start to crack into the NHL, that's pre-Bergevin. A lot of the lack of depth in age and prospect pool comes specifically from that era. Other than Patches and Price, there's nobody on the roster in the 26-31 or so age range that's homegrown. That's a large gap in talent that Bergevin has had to try and fill the void.
Yes I think bob missed the boat back in the 03’ draft. He could of set this organization up nicely if he drafted the type of players this organization needed instead of taking a gamble on AK.
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4 minutes ago, Commandant said:
There is a difference between the guys in their late 30s that you mention and the guys in their 20s that you mention.
So you’re telling me that if we had a talent goal scorer in our system ready to play a full time role on our team you wouldn’t look at trying to trade max to fill a hole elsewhere? That’s how you run a team. You don’t trade players or let players walk when you can’t fill there holes on the team. Look at what Nashville is doing and maybe you might understand.
they have drafted strong, they have developed strong and they have added depth every where in there system. That has let them trade roster players to fill holes because they have the depth in the system to fill the void.
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The reason why we are paying plekanec 6mil is because we have no one in the system to take his spot. We should of traded him 3 years ago, but we didn’t because we had no one else. The reason losing Markov hurts so much is because we have no one that can take his spot. Do you see what’s happening here???? If we drafted better and developed smarter we wouldn’t be in the hole we are in. We can’t replace guys that get hurt or don’t resign because we don’t have the depth because we don’t draft and develop properly. That’s the point I am trying to make.
if we had the players in our system ready to play full time in the nhl it would make trades easier, it would stop the slides when we get key injuries and it won’t hurt when we losing players to FA. But we don’t and until they realize that’s is the true problem here nothing will get fixed and we aren’t going to win a cup anytime soon.
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Price is just one of those rare guys who elevates players when he is playing. Its like night and day unreal.
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27 minutes ago, Link67 said:
Well considering we have picked 25th or higher in the 1st round in 4 of the last 5 years, doesn't exactly provide you with the best opportunity to find a Leon Draisatl from that range.
The year we picked Juulsen, the only top 6 player picked after him doing anything of significance at the NHL level is Sebastian Aho, ONE player.
The year we picked Scherbak, The only top 6 players picked after him making an impact for their teams are Brayden Point, and Victor Arvidsson, TWO players.
The year we picked Sergachev, we turned it into a top 6 player currently centering our Top line, and regardless if thats where he remains the rest of his time, he will surely be a top line player for us.
You have to put things in perspective, what i just pointed out is the reality of the situation, 20/20 goggles on and all, 3 players out of hundreds, have made an impact on their team's top 6 that were picked after our own pick. Those teams would be lying to you if they said it wasn't BS luck that they turned out the way they did, or they would have picked them a heck of a lot sooner. Couple all those facts with the less than ideal track record of Sylvain Lefebvre developing some of our promising players in the minors, and you have your explanation.
It is significantly easier to stock pile quality prospects when you are picking in the top 15 for several years in a row, if you nail those picks, and couple them with a nice late round find here and there, you end up with 4 to 6 real good players who can make an impact for you in a span of a few years. Trying to do that from nearly the 30th spot year after year, coupled with a mismanagement of assets and poor player development at the AHL level, and you end up with where we are now. A team who should be contending but can't, and no future impact players in the pipeline to extend the window to do so in sight.
Tell that to the teams that challenge for the cup every year but still seem to draft high caliber type players. The kings, hawks, pens, caps, nyr, nash, ducks, Tampa, always make the playoffs always end up picking 20 and up just like us. But yet always have good young NHL ready prospects that lets them make trades to fill holes. Yet we can't why is that??
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When we have injuries this team goes into a tail spin because we don't have the depth in our prospects pool.
If we had top 6 forwards ready to make the NHL and play big rolls we could then turn around and trade players to fill other holes. But we don't, and why is that?????
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6 minutes ago, Commandant said:
Of course better player development helps you make trades... but your original post and complaint was that there were still pieces acquired by Gainey/Gauthier who are part of this team's core.
No I was comparing the 2. Just to show the difference and how bad drafting and player development has been the past 7 years.
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12 minutes ago, Trizzak said:
Not easy. Just necessary.
Thank you someone who understands
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Didn't say you need a team of players under 25. What I am trying to say is that through strong drafting, strong player development, and depth in prospects you can build a wining team and find it easier to make trades for star players something MB doesn't seem to understand.
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8 minutes ago, Commandant said:
A GM doesn't need to push out Carey Price, Max Pacioretty, Brendan Gallagher or some of the other stars who are still in their late 20s on this team.
While there are issues in not replacing Markov and Plekanec... the idea that he has failed by not finding a better goalie than Price through drafting and development is silliness.
A good GM should take the pieces he inherits, keep the good ones, build a core, and augment in places that need augmenting. The problem has nothing to do with the fact that Bergevin hasn't replaced the Gainey/Gauthier core. It has to do that he never augmented it. He never added a piece to the forward group in his time, specifically the much needed centre. And he didn't replace the aging vets creating more holes...
In fact one of the core moves he made to replace a gainey/gauthier core piece with one of his own (Subban for Weber) is a move that shouldn't have been made.
So while I don't like Bergevin, i think the reason you don't like him is not the problem.First off if you're drafting and player development is great it makes it that much better for you to make trades to improve your team. Thats why teams like ...pens, caps, kings, hawks, sharks, rangers, nash always are able to make trades for star players because there drafting and player development are strong. MB can't or as he says it finds it hard to make trades because his drafting and player development is weak.
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15 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:
I've heard good things about that Hundon guy
Look at bob' s core group of drafting and player development and then look at MB's group of drafting and player development. Who's is better ????
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1 hour ago, Commandant said:
A few things.
1) Why are Price, Gallagher, Pacioretty not in the core group.
2) What is a core group if you define it as including players like Emelin, McCarron, and others who are fringe at best?
3) How did you manage to misspell 3 members of the team?
When a GM takes over he drafts and develop players that challenge and eventually push out the older core group of players that were drafted and developed by the previous GM. When bob took over the team he drafted and developed his core group of players. These players are our core players today.
under Bergevin in his five years here he has yet to draft and develop a core group of players that can challenge and eventually push out the old core that’s here. That’s his big down fall.
i am not looking at trades or UFA signings. I am looking at drafting/player development and nhl ready drafted players. This has been bad for the past 7 years and we are seeing the results of it now.
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Bergevin in his 5 years here has failed to build his own cord of players through drafting and player development. Thats where he has gone wrong and that's why he finds it hard for himself to make any kind of trades even having close to 9mil of cap space.
We went from a core group of
Price
PK
Gallagher
Pacioretty
Plekenec
Emelin
Markov
to a cord group under MB of
galchenyuk
lenkonen
hundon
mete
lindgren
mccarron
Juulsen
Mccarron and juulsen aren’t full timers yet. But you can see thats a pretty big drop off in talent when it comes to drafting players and developing them.
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6 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:
Price is moving really well. His form looks great.
He said he switch back to his old style skates⛸. Guess he wasn't feeling comfortable in the new ones he had.
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A number one center is not going to turn us into a cup contender over night. There is a lot more going on with this team than that. I fear that if management doesn't wake up they could make things even worse. When ever we get key injures we go on this down word spin. The problem is we don't have the talent in our farm system to fill holes on the big club when ever there's a injury. Thats do in large part because of very bad player development, and some bad trades. We are now seeing how dry our farm system really is, we have 9mil in cap space and can't make a trade unless its a star player on our NHL team going in the trade. But management believes we are a playoff team so they wouldn't trade key star players. This is what the problem is, what really is this team??? What direction do we go in???? If we can't make trades do to lack of prospects, What do we do?? At the deadline are we buyers or seller's? Do we wait tell July 1st retool the team then??? Or do we do this right way and blow up the team and fort office, bring in a GM that knows about player development , and we finally fix the true issues with this organization ??? I am just tired of going through this down word tail spin each time we get key injuries and can't fill the void do to lack of depth and talent.
I know you guys are going to say we are always pick at the back end of drafts, but so are the pens, black hawks, sharks, kings, Tampa, caps and they all seem to still find talented players that they develop.
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Just wondering maybe MB could get JT for a discount today ????
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Getting picks and prospects is all good but the problem here is our player development. I don't trust these guys we have in place moving forward to develop any of our picks or prospects we get back in any trades or draft. MB doesn't think there's a problem with our development of players so he will not make any moves. This is why I feel he needs to be fired and someone knew needs to be brought in who knows about player development.
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34 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said:
Yeah, draft runs off the NHL standings.. I'm saying they're 5th worst now, won't finish below 9th or 10th, even with a fire sale.
What if we trade our players to the teams below us in the standings ??
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Mitchell hits the lottery and goes to a good team and is this the start of a fire??? sale ??????
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1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:
6-0 Preds.
Trying the reverse jinx thing...Tried that already didn't work but hopefully you have better luck with it.
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I hate to say it but don't be surprised if Gallagher gets traded.
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Do you think PK will tell his buddy tavares not to trust Bergevin ?????
2018 NHL Playoff Thread
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
Isn't this the same ? Avery was doing that got him kicked out the NHL? So what's the difference? The fact that Brad can score?