Lister110
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Posts posted by Lister110
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This is stupid, Theo contract number two here we go. Koivu has not been that great this year, he take stupid penalties, doesn't look that fast and he's not getting any younger. Why increase his salary? Why make it so long?
If they couldn't have signed him for what he was making before for only two years then let him go. I think most habs fans have enough money sense to realize when they are being taken advantage of. We don't have to worry about his no trade clause because his price tag would have been seen as the same thing. No one would want him at this price and frankly neither do I.
Forget the cap, look at how the Habs traditionally spend on the team. Were done, don't look for any great free agency signings now.
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No way should we trade Komisarek. Especially not for a 30+-year-old defenceman. That's NOT how you rebuild; that's how you end up in the same wretched mess season after season. If Bob pulls the trigger on this deal, I will officially join the Bob-haters.
Me too, this would be a bad a decision I think. Komi has lots of potential and when your mother dies before her time chances are you wouldn't be at your best. Komi has lots to offer and he has the kind of grit you don't get from Russian D. We have Markov that's good enough for Russian D, we don't want to have no D that can hit or clear the net. Komi will get faster and smarter with time too, I have faith. Trade Souray if you want to get risky.
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Alright welcome back Markov :hlogo:
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The Hossa for Murray was a good deal. Hossa could have left Montreal for nothing and we got Murray in return. Murray plays with heart.
Firing Claude Julien was a way to shake things up. It didn't work out but my guess is that Gainey was looking for a trade before the coach got fired but didn't find anything. But it's just a guess.
Hainsey has looked better in Columbus than he ever did in Montreal. He couldn't handle the pressure about being the top prospect defenceman of the Habs? Maybe but I do feel that we got ripped.
I didn't like the Bonk trade initialy and I don't like it now. I hate it now. It forced my favourite player Perreault to Nashville and a great backup in Garon to Kings and all I see is a big, slow, non-hitting overpaid czech republic former top prospect...
Everything that happens is not Bob Gaineys fault.
Not to mention toughening up the team. Bob's still alright with me. There have been a lot of players that have betrayed the organization and their fans this year.
Theodore was Bob's biggest mistake in my books. The contract was way too much or for too long considering the uncertain state of affairs with with the rule changes. Then again Montreal press would have burned Gainey for letting him go, being the Montreal good old boy with community involvement that Theo is. Theo knew this and took full advantage. I wish Gainey would have taken the risk, but its doubtful many managers could have handled Theo differently.
The toughening up was huge and lets not blame Ivanans or Downey for the lazyness of our "superstars". For one thing Downey is still very new and sounds charismatic and Ivanans is an absolute necessity. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Look at what has been happening to Crosby until they got Cairns, look at how fast goons like Colton Orr and Nathan Parrot were grabbed off waivers. Having tough guys allows your superstars to focus on being super. Toronto has been suffering more these days because their goons are old and weak by comparison to other teams. Also almost every successful team has at least one goon and others to stand in if necessary.
Lets also remember that Gainey brought the machine Steve Begin and Langdon. Guys that gave us immediate impact. Murray will be the same and I think Ferland has promise too.
Our problem is that everywhere that our money is placed we're not getting results. If guys like Theodore Kovalev, Ribeiro, Koivu, Zednik, Souray, Bonk, Ryder and even Bulis and Sundstrum were playing remotely well on a consistant level we would still be winning and our tough gritty players would have no problem being on the bench. These guys rotate being the worst player(s) on the team (except for Zednik he's been a tit throughout) and each takes their turn blowing games with stupid plays. You look at the names on the list and that there is the entire talent pool of the team. Bulis I would give a slight exception too because he atleast looks like he's trying most nights, but his output until recently has been pitiful.
What we should be asking ourselves is what factors have lead to all of these players becoming so lazy? I'd say Julien has to answer for part of that, as he began the year so well. Also, to the pain of many on this board, I still say the officiating against Montreal has been nothing short of terrible. We get more 5-3s against us at game breaking moments than any other team in the league. One day I will get the stats to prove it but for now I'm a crackpot. The refs tilt the balance against us early, the team gives up and then they balance out the penalties once the lead has been secured by the opposing team and all the heart is lost. When this first started happening we'd get shorthanded goals, Sundstrum would single handedly kill penalties and we would win anyway. Then we got injuries and started losing, the team got depressed with bad calls and stopped playing. Now when a 5-3 is called you can predict the goal against us (possibly 2) and the certain loss that will follow from it. Its interesting too when you see returning players from injuries come back with fresh vigour, score some goals and witness the on going hopelessness and then return to their losing ways. They forgot about the fix.
The problem is that Gainey has been handed a rotten egg. For years Montreal's drafting has been committed to small so-called fast talented players??? Does anyone else notice that our team looks slower than the Leafs! They get burnt out or rubbed out by physical play and take plenty of hooking penalties because they can't play the man. Man they're useless. These small players (Pleks, Higgins, Perez) have brought us very little and it seems the league's big players have ajusted just fine to the new NHL (with some exceptions...Souray and Allison).
It will take sometime to clean house.
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I wonder how affected he still is over his divorce? We need to have expectations but two players that are going through internal struggles no doubt are Souray and Komisarek. That being said it doesn't give them a white card to play as shitty as they like. Just I wouldn't scream for any trades with them just yet.
Zednik is an old man though, everytime I see him on the ice I get pissed off. Even the goal he got against Carolina was a no brainer on Souray's rare talented drive to the net.
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Agreed; but they had better not trade Kosty or Perez without giving them the same chance they are giving Higgins and Pleks first.
As for the season, we can still make the playoffs but I hear the top 10-15 draftees are pretty good too.
At this point trades are all but moot because we have nothing of value that we are willing to part with; I say let Theo work through this and give the rookies a chance to play regularly and see what happens after that.
It sounds good in theory, but the fans at the games in Montreal will not let that happen and Jose will be chased out of town ala Roy, Brisebois within the next few months [off season trade likely at Jose's request]
It's Sad really, to go from "future of the franchise" to future ex-habs.
Don't think for one second that Danis and Carey Price aren't taking notes on this.
Definitely something to think about before being overly critical and cruel to Theo. Then again if they are taking notes I hope they learn something about taking on rock-star status prematurely. True Theo was handed this and who could refuse that temptation. Even at that, signing a contract like he did you have to be able to back it up! It seems this is where Habs fans get the most upset and that is when a player signs a sweetheart deal and does nothing to earn it. Its major disrespect to your club, fans and teammates. And what stands out in all of this is how vocal Theo was against the changes in pad size and how he hard bargained for the contract he got. It seems that he might have known what was coming(especially if he didn't practice too hard) and found his retirement package at the cost of the clubs future.
Hopefully Danis and Price will market themselves with a bit more integrity than that. I said this once for the Brisebois booing and I'll say it again. When a player finds themselves in this position they can always save face by turning back that salary or renegotiating their contract for less. It would be unprecedented, but it would be honest and might permit him to stay in his home province with some dignity. Of course the other option is to get traded like Brisebois and show everyone what you're really capable of. Its still early days for Theo but he is in a world of trouble and for all the money he's got I don't envy his position. That contract could feel like prostitution by the end. Only a psycho could live with being despised by his own people for money. Maybe that's just me.
Still hoping he proves he's got what it takes...
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very interesting from gazette
"Gainey benched Richard Zednik for the game in Toronto and replaced him on the top line with rookie Christopher Higgins. Gainey said he looked to the youngster to provide the line with some stability."
I read this to mean that Higgins has at least temporarily won the first line LW spot. Where does this leave Zed?
Hopefully still benched in the crowd. Not to be an ingrate to his past feats but Zed has consistantly been the worst Habs forward for the past slump. It looks like he wants to be traded or just doesn't have anything left in the tank.
Higgins hasn't exactly been dazzling either though
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Ivanans, Ivanans Yeah baby... he was the reason why Kovalev scored and Koivu. For the first time the first line isn't intimidated. He silenced Antropov and Domi was scared off by Downey. Begin could hit at will and drew three Leaf penalties. Some of them leading to goals.
When Ivanans is in the line up the other team plays worse and we win. Muscle counts end of story.
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If Kovalev is the poison get rid of him. We played better than this without him. I know this is all speculation, but I never heard anything about a fight between Begin and Kovalev. In a battle of character Begin wins hands down.
But who knows, this is rumour mill central. If there was a fight it was probably Begin trying to motivate him. Maybe Kovalev's ego is too big for any team
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The last time we played Ottawa they were all over Kovalev and he hasn't brought his A game since. Maybe now Chara and McGratton can go after someone their own size.
For my two cents...I studied that fight and the only way Ivanans could have fractured his orbital was in the sucker punch after the fight. Chara's punch in falling hit Ivanans in the mouth. After Chara threw the sucker Ivanans came back up with a bloody bruise around the eye. Lets not forget Chara the wrestling expert was knocked off his feet with the swift jersey punch of Ivanans.
Furthermore I was there for that two round fight against McGratton and it was a skilled fight and a skilled draw. Chara and McGratton the two biggest in the East. If Ivanans loses to Chris Neil than we'll have something to worry about. For now its the only anticipation we've got other than another blowout.
One thing you can't fault the Leafs on is that they know what sells. Defining ourselves in opposition to good thinking is just plain stupid. Its like the Leafs being opposed to young talented players.
Go Ivanans Go
Beats what's going these days
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Downey, Ivanans and Begin?
So Bob Gaineys opinion is the Habs are to soft?
I don't know what to think. Aren't Downey and Ivanans the same kind of player except that Downey has some offensive upside? Then why call up Ivanans?
Ivanans is in a different weight class. Downey must be there to replace Murray. I guess Ferland wasn't ready for that job.
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Hurray Ivanans returns
:hlogo: :hlogo: 
The improvements are being made.
Go Habs Go
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I hope rivet, Zednik, Koivu, Kovalev, sundstrom, souray, komisarek etc..get torn apart as well cause they're just as much to blame and playing just as badly as Theodore.
No calm downs, is ever there was a time to bitch its now. There are three players I'd like to see hung from the rafters: Dandy Zednik and Theo. I think Dandenault was on for just about all 7 goals last night. Zednik skates like my grandpa and Theo is a daydreaming crybaby.
Lets a floater in on practically the first shot and then there was that 4th goal after the 5 on 3 where he put in about as much effort as a kid that packs his ball up and goes home after things haven't gone his way.
Get with it man, so what if dumb plays or refs cost us a goal, it was 3-1 we were still in the game until that bullshit lack of effort 4th goal.
Zednick should just be retired or traded if possible. He's had plenty of time and looks like he's in the wrong league.
Dandy isn't on the team in my books, just a guy hanging in the landscape. All we have to do is make it official.
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picking up downey is a good move if bg thought vandemeer was the guy he would be here. downey has an attitude. he may not win all his fights but he has never backed down that I have ever heard of. He will fight anybody anytime and there ain't nothing wrong with that. we could use a little pride on this team.
if you are looking for a goon who wins every fight let me know who that is.
No just a goon that can fight with the Superheavyweights of our division and not get humiliated. If you think Downey will be there to fight the likes of Belak, Peters, Cairns or Godard and win as many as he loses that would be more than sufficient.
The thing is people were selling him as a heavyweight for the Habs, but I think he's looking more like a replacement for Murray injury now. Didn't realise how serious his injury was. At any rate I have doubts that he's a heavyweight, as someone said earlier more like a Neil or a Murray, which I apparently needs replacing.
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I don't know, still not sold. Boulerice has lost a few fights this year already. He's not the biggest goon and from the look of that fight he way overcommited allowing for a knock out punch. He must have underestimated Downy, but even Neil would have probably knocked him out with that kind of wild swing.
Was it this fight?I guess we might see that rematch again as Boulerice should be dressed for the game. Will Downey be there?
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Not such a confusing move. Souray wants to continue fighting and now he doesn't have to. We don't want to have what happened to Souray ever happen again. I think maybe he should have tried out Ivanans first though.
Its true that we can't have Souray fighting, but this doesn't look like the answer to me. If all we want is a punching bag we could have called Vandermeer back up. I'll guarantee there is no risk that another team would take him (who'd want him) and we would have saved $440 000 while using something we are still paying for on top of Downy.
Gainey must really believe this guy is tough enough to do the job. He was right about Langdon but sure was wrong about Vandermeer.
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Excellent! I love Aaron Downey. Cheap, about $450,000. And a solid hard nose player. Similar to Chris Neil in Ottawa.
Probably not scary enough then. With the right toughness our real talent might light up again. If this player is another Murray or Ferland, or worse Vandermeer and Gordie Dwyer, why do we need him? The only thing worse than not participating in the rough stuff is getting your ass kicked when you do. There's no place for second rate goons in this league. Its killers or nothing.
A 6-1" goon even at 220lbs(212 by the Habs website) doesn't sound like a guy we can put against Belak(6-5 221), Godard(6-4 227), Cairns (6-6 241), or Andrew Peters 6-4 247lbs let alone McGratton. He won't have the reach and in many cases the weight. I know these stats don't prove anything but he looks on paper like a Vandermeer and we all saw what happened to him when he went up against Tampa's tough guy. Hope he proves my doubts unfounded.
Don't forget I said it, because I did.Bob hasn't done anything right since picking up Kovalev in March 04, thats two years ago. Not doing anything postive in two years will lead to hard times, which we're seeing right now. I can go on and on... Garon for Bonk, signing Dandenualt, giving Theodore 16 million over 3 years. Our defense hasn't been changed in forever. The last Dman we got via trade was Souray, about half a decade ago.
Worrel is a total monster, if you're going to get a goon, get someone serious, not a make believe goon that Tie Domi will handle.
Also, watch your sarcastic tone there buddy.
I agree with everything said here. I don't know if Bob hasn't done anything good since Kovalev's signing, but that is certainly a list of the major things he has done wrong. This Downy probably couldn't have intimidated our wimpy Habs as it is. Just like Vandermeer, 6-1 is penuts, if anything its encouraging a fight rather than making the other team think twice. An what happens after he proves not tough enough, we send him down to the Bulldogs to be linesmates with Vandermeer and Ivanans. Talk about a Hanson brother's line and a waste of resources. The irony is that if he doesn't work out we'll still be in need of a real enforcer.
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Can Cote fight? This getting ridiculous, once again we see why you can't have your needed vets doing the dirty work. When will Montreal dress a goon?
Something else I was wondering, does anyone know for sure that wrist protectors were classified as foreign objects in fights resulting in a suspension if blood is drawn before this happened?
It really sucks because that would have been a big motivation builder had the march penalty not been given.
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Then I would go so far as to say this deal does nothing for any of the teams. Montreal doesn't need more prospects to wait on and come to average. We have been doing this for long enough. We need something substancial here and now or at least for next year. Fleury is like Theodore without the past honors. Theodore's salary is only overpriced until it is not and his game returns. Then some general manager will wax wise about knowing Theodore had it in him. Or on the flip side nothing changes and he's a bum. The risk is there, but the potential payoff would be substantial. Put Theo behind the Avs and his numbers will look good even if he is a bum.
The sense to this would be if Theodore has made enemies with the team and management and the trade is aimed at giving us what we already have.
Theodore was at his best when Montreal was like the Pens, except Theo would win the games too.
ed. I know I'm biased, but I'll bet that any goalie Montreal gets will look soft after a couple of games with the teams lazy periods and defensive break downs. Not to mention you'll Fleury into a local hero that is too busy making commercials than practicing. Montreal could profit from a big terrifying goon on the bench. Theodore will be respected and the rest of the players will continue to push the lead instead of worrying about upsetting the other team and getting beat up. In addition we could do the beating up when we fall behind to pick things up.
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Why would an Avalanche fan put this together? It doesn't help us at all. We deal a goalie with all the confidence in the world and exceptional talent for a stuggling, overpaid goalie. It's like the December version of Aebi, we're just paying him more money. On top of that, we throw in a 1st round pick. Not something a team with one of the worst prospect pools in the league should do. It doesn't help us at all.
If anyone, it favors the Habs. It makes no sense for the Penguins.
Then I would go so far as to say this deal does nothing for any of the teams. Montreal doesn't need more prospects to wait on and come to average. We have been doing this for long enough. We need something substancial here and now or at least for next year. Fleury is like Theodore without the past honors. Theodore's salary is only overpriced until it is not and his game returns. Then some general manager will wax wise about knowing Theodore had it in him. Or on the flip side nothing changes and he's a bum. The risk is there, but the potential payoff would be substantial. Put Theo behind the Avs and his numbers will look good even if he is a bum.
The sense to this would be if Theodore has made enemies with the team and management and the trade is aimed at giving us what we already have.
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Bye getting Abeischer and moving fleury the Pens will save money in the short term. Abs salary is higher, but with bonuses Fleury is 3or 4 M more expensive.
This rumour is a bit ludicrous, but if it were to occur the pick would have to be Colorado's.
For the sake of rumour mongering i see it like this
To Colorado - Theo
To Pitt - Abeischer
To MTL - Fleury and Col Rnd 1 pick
Doubtful to happen,
1st round picks are extremely important in this new NHL, b/c if you can get young stars who contribute, they will be under a rookie deal (which is a max of 900K or so) offering extremely high value.
This looks like a shit deal to me. Do we really need cap space that badly? Last I heard we were still pretty far from maxed out. This is the deal to make if you're certain the team has no shot at the playoffs. This is throwing in the towel for the year and why would we do that now when a goaltender will fetch so much more closer to the trade deadline. Beside the increased profits in the NHL is going to lift the salary cap through escrow. I know the players will get a part of those profits but we still might find ourselves with morecap space. Another thing this deal would say is that we think Theodore is total shit because a first round pick guarantees nothing. It will prbably mean we get two balls in the draw and it's doubtful we'll be as lucky as we were this year. Even if we are, do you think Price is worth a Theodore? Whoever put this together is an Avalanch fan that still thinks Habs are stupid enough to throw away starting goaltenders for nothing. Also why would the Pens make this trade. They would stand to lose the most.
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5-3 Habs with goals from Kovalev Markov Begin Bulis Koivu
Go Habs Go
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No one really new How the new NHL would be ( take a look at Bret Hull ans so many others!
and the fact that the "illness" was left untreated can be firmally attributed to now even if Dage had some heart felt Connection with the team ( so yes partly Niceness) but moreso that there was still hope Dagenais had some Trade value.. specially after his two goals in the SO the unexpected scratching was in view of a trade if possible! so the fact that he was sent down Theoretically there is a 0.001% chance DAGENAIS LEARNS TO SKATE AND HIT! who knows maybe Girls will be attending the DOgs game Topless too!!!
If he stays put in Dogworld then he might even feel more at ease there! In any case its for his best I like Vagenais But he needs to WORK! WORK!! And WORK!! free lunch in the big league a thing of the past!
Steroid time if there ever was one
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Wasn't expecting this. So much for the shootout specialist.
Habs Finally Hitting!
in Habs & Hockey Talk
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Ivanans junk? I wouldn't go that far. He's not going to drop the gloves in games with tight scores, he has a winning record with this team and few takers in even wanting to fight. Rivet is the heart and soul but that won't be enough when guys like McGratton or Peters go pushing Kovalev around. Those moments require a 6-3" 263lbs goon. So far only Ottawa has played that game on us, but in both our wins against Toronto in TO Ivanans was there. He makes other teams more honest.