Lovett's Magnatones
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Posts posted by Lovett's Magnatones
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15 hours ago, DON said:
You're creating a straw man, DON. The argument isn't whether Jim Nill did a good job of creating a contender, the argument is whether quality centers are available.
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Why don't they
6 hours ago, Trizzak said:Bergevin's definition of a #1 center seemed to be someone that can put up 70+ points and be trusted in all situations on the ice. To his 1st and 2nd point, the list of those centermen that have been traded for or signed in free agency during his tenure is ridiculously small... Johansen, Spezza, Seguin, Ribeiro and Pominville. And it is a stretch to say they are trusted in all situations. So in that assessment, he's not wrong... #1 centremen are basically not available outside of the draft. (Mind you, Dallas traded for them twice... hmmm...)
A very quick scan of the drafts under Bergevin seems to show that no #1 centermen were available at the Habs selections at the draft. This somewhat absolves him and Timmins... they haven't missed out on any centermen.
But the centermen Bergevin started his first season with were Plekanec, Desharnais, Eller, and White, and there were essentially 0 centre prospects on the depth chart... so clearly the issue at centre has been a long term one. And the centremen drafted under Bergevin (as per hockeydb) are: Galchenyuk, Vail, De La Rose, Crisp, Gregoire, Audette, Vejdemo, Bradley, Bitten, and Pezzetta. At best you can say 3 of those guys had reasonable top-6 potential when they were drafted. Only one had reasonable #1 potential. By Bergevin's own metric, Galchenyuk is it. That's his one shot at a #1 center. You would think he would be doing every ####ing thing possible to make sure that potential is reached.
Instead he's playing 4th line LW in the playoffs in the 5th year of his development, despite being 3rd in team scoring.
I remember Timmons bragging about Vejdemo. 4 goals in 50 games this year. Maybe it's time to move on from Timmons?
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Bergevin on centers, paraphrased:
1. They're not available, ever, and don't you forget it.
2. You have to draft them.
3. Alex Galchenyuk is a winger.
So, the greatest team need isn't avaliable, and they can't develop it when they have their pick of any center in an entire draft. Sounds like he's admitting he can't do his job and he should resign.
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I really think that the team peaked in 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 and Bergevin failed to recognize it. Not being snide, but he thought he was building a Chicago and lost sight of all that wasn't three inches in front of his nose. The goal of building a contender to compete year after year was lofty and highly suspect. Only the Penguins, the Hawks, and the Capitals (to an extent) have hung on at that level since the salary cap. And they have the best players in the game, which is why they've been able to shuffle around depth pieces to rejig contenders through multiple iterations. If you have Toews, Kane, and Keith or Sid, Malkin, and Letang, a couple of early exits can be tolerated to find the right mix.
They should have gone for it in 2014-2015. They really had the team to make some serious noise and Bergevin's acquisition was Jeff Petry. Pathetic! He totally misread the situation and they went out much like they did this year-with a hermetic defense that wasn't hermetic enough to shut the other team out every game, which was pretty much the only way to the Cup that year and this year.
The biggest indictment of Bergevin is player development. In five years, his only draft picks that have made the team full-time are Galchenyuk and Lehkonen. What do they have in common? Neither developed in the organization. Young players consistently struggle to find roles, even the most talented ones.
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21 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:
Damphousse was my favourite player as a kid. I don't want him anywhere near a GM role. If your organization is putting media in top roles then your organization is broken.
Eh? EH!
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50 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:
It's simple.
If Carey says no to an extension and wants to test the free agent market, you trade him and blow up the team.
If Carey says yes to an extension, you pay whatever he asks. I would rather pay Price $12 million than pay anyone else available in the league $6 million and watch Bergevin spend the free money on grinders. Remember what he did with all that cap space he saved on signing Subban to a bridge? He got Briere. Who turned into Parenteau. Who turned into a buyout.
Pay your stars. Bargain with your depth.
Hahahahahahaha
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54 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
Yes. The case for firing Bergevin is not based on a single summer or a single move. It's cumulative. What I would add is that the apparent mishandling of Galy is only one part of that wider picture - a picture that, sadly, includes a weak player-development pipeline.
I don't see him fired this summer. They've got one more season, realistically, to make some noise with the different deals coming up and the age of some players. There are too many balls in the air to have a new GM.
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Goalie trades are a mixed bag, but if Price won't sign, or they have other ideas, this has to happen at the draft. I don't see much of a return on a one year deal, frankly. Unless it's futures. What team is a star goalie away from a Cup with a star center to spare?
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3 hours ago, Meller93 said:
Further point, Toews and Kane have both won Conn Smythes haven't they? Proven they can literally be THE BEST playoff players. They also already have 3 cups each. Bringing them up as a comparison is a total non-sequitur.
No kidding. Those guys have nothing left to prove. They're the most successful players of this generation along with Crosby, Doughty, and Patrice Bergeron.
This is what I mean when I talk about "impending Leafdom." Someone here, either CC or MoLG first pointed out that it's been so long for this franchise that we think guys like Max and Plekanec are real deal stars instead of great players.
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8 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:
Radulov was also his third choice behind Lucic and Williams. He's lucky that Radulov loves Quebec and wanted to play here.
Hahahahaha. That's right, I forgot. Imagine Weber and Lucic as 33 and 36 year olds? If this team isn't careful, they're going to turn into the Canucks.
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32 minutes ago, DON said:
Well, Price did get outplayed...didn't he? Which goalie stopped key breakaways and didn't let in one soft goal? Let me give you a hint...he is Swedish.
He did. He got outplayed by probably the most consistent goalie of the last decade, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he's a major reason they lost. He kept the Rangers to 12 goals. The theme song of the series should be "Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better." The Rags had an answer for everything. Had they not abandoned their neutral zone trap in Games 2 or 3, it could have been a short series.
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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
Based on the past year's work, he can't even be trusted to properly identify the problem.
This is the the question for me: Do we even want this guy to keep tinkering with the team? He traded a franchise player and fired a coach and the results were out in 6. He signed Radulov, great, but he also nickel and dimed him when other teams offered another year. The move worked, but it's the thinking that concerns me. The thinking being that Radulov was another short term bandaid for the offense. Which makes me wonder...does this guy understand the concept of "offense?" Because he certainly doesn't take it seriously.
I don't have confidence in Bergevin making the right decision. He'll probably trade Galchenyuk and Beaulieu for Sean Couturier or Ryan Kesler.
Can Bergevin learn the lesson? Maybe after this series. He's out of excuses about coaching, character and leadership. The team worked their ass off, they traded for the grittiest grits that ever gritted, and they have a guy good enough to make the top-6 on Team Canada! However, at this point, it's obvious he couldn't build an adequate top-6 with a 100 year head start.
It's like Alec Baldwin said in Glengarry Glenn Ross "I told (Mitch and Murray) to do themselves a favor and fire your effin ass." The clock has struck 12, and MB is officially a pumpkin. He'll be gone at the end if next year.
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8 hours ago, THE Bobby Orr said:
if they fire MB ...big IF....i think ownership is going to look at a different organizational model; GM-by-committee ???
Not if they paid even cursory attention to what happened in Florida this year. Flat hierarchies don't work. It's new aged BS, like Tesla or advanced stats.
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5 minutes ago, l<OV4L3V said:
and what other french speaking GMs are around that you know of?Julien BriesBois
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6 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
Trading MB for Mouth McGuire would just be rotating the clowns in the clown car.
To trade references out for politics, Pierre is a lot like Newt Gingrich or Paul Krugman. The three of them are fine analysts, good enough to make you wonder, but they're well out of touch with what actually goes on and makes a winner in 2017.
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13 minutes ago, huzer said:
While I hear people say that price didn't steal a game, it's hard to do so when you score 1 goal in your losses. Winning 1-0 is an unrealistic expectation.
That said, this was a close series. It really could have gone either way. I remember in '93 feeling bad for Buffalo when they get swept in 4 straight 4-3 games. Losing to a beatable team sucks. Seeing the speedy Habs not be so speedy anymore is a bit sad. I sure wish they could've put up a few goals.
Price was fine. He didn't steal any games, didn't lose any games. A couple of soft goals in six games. They have to be badly outshot for an entire game and dominated for him to steal a game.
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25 minutes ago, sbhatt said:
Damn right it's time to rip the C off Max's chest at the very least. Joe Thornton got stripped of his C for similar reasons.
That's a good point. Jumbo Joe is available. Wait...
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25 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
I am angrier at MB right now than I can recall being at anyone in the Habs organization in years. This failure is 100% ON HIM. His failure to improve the team one iota in three years is inexcusable. He had a good hand and completely misplayed it. A joke of a GM.
Fire up the Random Excuse Generator
*They're (#1 centers, #2 dmen, popcorn vendors) not available
*Need to get (see above) at the draft
*You have to spend a lot to give a lot, and some variation of above
*I have a voodoo doll of Molson
*Isn't this a nice tie?
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1 minute ago, sbhatt said:
Fitting would have been Captain Useless blowing it. Plex has actually scored in this series, unlike the bum far too many on this board keep making excuses for.
Scale of 1 to 10, how disappointed do you think Weber is that he was traded to this steaming pile of shit?
It's going to be very had to get excited about next season if 'Captain Useless' Maxi Padioretty is still on the team, and Markdown Bergevin is still the GM. Both are useless SOBs who can't get the job done when/where it's needed most.
Between the cultural differences and the impending Leafdom of the franchise, I would give it a three.
Very in the offseason, but I don't think Max or Chucky is a Claude kind of player. Bergevin is going to ride Claude as he is the only credibility he has left. More guys like King and Davidson will come in, and hopefully a center. Don't see Max getting traded in the final year of his deal, but it's time to give the C to Weber.
What the heck?
Max/Chucky/Hudon
Simmonds/Couturier?
They went out like they came in. A bunch of smallish try-hards that didn't have the talent and didn't have the talent in the right places. Can this team win with Chucky and Max as their nucleus? I don't think so. I wanted to forward corp to be blown up a year or so ago, and I think that's what is going to happen.
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With the exception of the 2 players not needing to be named, there's nothing for these guys to be ashamed of. They played their collective bag off. They simply didn't have the horses.
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2 minutes ago, brobin said:
time to really shorten the bench. Put out two lines filled with the guys who are fighting for it. Hmmmm. Might not have enough for two lines... add in a Pacs I guess.
I've got a smaller TV and he hasn't even been in the picture on many shifts.
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Why is Tomas Plekanec still on the 1st wave?
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First chance of the period is a shot to the crest by Lynnfield's own, Brian Flynn.
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3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
How about we get Patches an actual top-6 C to play with? What a concept
That's definitely part of the story. Danault is no puck distributor and Radulov can only do so much.
How many times do you fire GM and/or coach before you realize it's the team??
in Habs & Hockey Talk
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