Metallica
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Posts posted by Metallica
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There are players out there that can help he just doesn't have the pieces to make the trades.
He has trade the future twice and both times got burned????????????????????????????.
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1 hour ago, Commandant said:
He said the right things in his approach to the team right now.
1) I'm not trading prospects and draft picks for quick fixes on the team. (Thats the right answer today, there is no reason to deal prospects and picks for rentals now).2) I haven't given up on the playoffs. (Three of the next six are against Boston, at the end of that stretch this season either has a glimmer of hope or is completely lost. Anything less than 5 points in those three games, and you have to start moving the Plekanec, Delauriers, and other UFAs off this team, but you can wait for those 6 games to play out first).
He said some wrong things too. Such as Drouin being a winger and only playing there cause we can't find a centre. if that is the case, why isn't Chucky tried there as well?
He said he's not trading prospects because our prospects can't get him that #1c we need. Not trading picks because he doesn't know where we will finish. If we were first in the division and in a playoff spot he would trade the picks.
He knows were not going to make the playoffs, but to save face and not have to hear the fans and media he's not going to come out and say it.
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14 minutes ago, Commandant said:
The same things you are saying about Brodeur now, are what was said about the Blackhawks assistant GM Marc Bergevin in 2012.
Only Bergevin was actually management on a cup winning team.
Had more experience in 2012 than Brodeur has today.
I'm not sure we have any idea what we'd be getting in Brodeur.Maybe we would be getting less of an ego ?
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6 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:
Pacioretty isn’t core enough of a player for it to have a positive impact to get rid of him. We will notice his loss more than we will notice how we no longer have his “lack of effort”. He’s obviously part of the core but we need more in addition to him, not something in replace of him. On the other hand, I don’t agree that he’s a type of cancer that brings down the team simply because he is our captain and not performing.
I can only gather that people want to trade Pacioretty right now mostly because of his recent struggles. Although I’m not against moving him, I don’t agree that trading him is the only way to redefine the core and I don’t agree that he’s the only way we get value back.
RNH is leading the oilers in scoring? Great, so is Gallagher. We now have Pacioretty and Nugent Hopkins and the core is given a little shake. I don’t particularly want to get rid of Gallagher, but it is another option.
I don’t see eye to eye with Bergevin but I do think Pacioretty, as well as Weber and Price can win a cup while together, on any given team.
Price and Weber to a lesser extent have equally struggled this season. We can go on about how bad these players are or we can tend to agree that while the team may not be great on paper as a whole, these individual players also had uncharacteristic seasons themselves and the statistics will eventually even out, and can do so without a “change of scenery”.
I think they can win a cup together. To be honest the problem is we have a GM who builds his team like its the 90's and a coach who coach's like its the 90's. We need a management team and coaches that have been brought up in organizations In this generation of hockey. Thats why when I first heard his name in here I thought about it, and then more i think about the more I like the idea of Brodeur being named to run hockey operations here in Montreal. The blues have been bring him along nicely in the organization and he's been learning today's NHL as a management . I just think he would be the perfect fit to run this team.
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1 hour ago, Commandant said:
I'd rather keep Hudon
I don't rate Duclair that highly
If you think Hudon is going to be a top 6 player in the NHL you need to take your habs blinders off. He is at best a 3rd line center.
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5-1 Canada???? looks like its a win
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4-1 Canada????
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5 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:
The team was stale during Subban’s last full season with us. I remember it very well. It wasn’t Subban’s fault but regardless of Price’s injury that season, the team was playing extremely stale hockey. Last year was better than this year and next year can be better than this one even without trading away Pacioretty.
I’m not against trading Pacioretty for a core piece but at best it’s going to likely be a lateral move which you usually are against.
I agree I don't think we should trade Pacioretty. I am just saying why everyone thinks we should, and its do to the fact we can get the best return for him. I also think that if Bergevin doesn't land tavares July 1st then he will end up trading Pacioretty.
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8 minutes ago, johnnyhasbeen said:
Just a thought that has been bugging me. How come the Penguins are sucking as bad as Montreal this year but we don;t hear talk of them trading Crosby or Malkin yet we all are talking about trading Price and Pacioretty? This teams roster is not that far removed from the one that placed near the top last year. Take the season as a right off, draft high and move forward. Don't be stupid and blow up the core or ditch your best youngsters. Relax, it is a bad season, we had one a few years back, went top to bottom scored Gally then went back to top. Deal with it.
Because its the penguins, if we had Crosby and malkin don't you worry the media would be having a field day with all the different trade ideas they could come up with.
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12 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:
Well, aren't we here to complain about Bergevin? Instead of attacking him for his quest for leadership, his biggest recent blunder was not addressing our need at center. Last season, while people complain about Ott and Martinsen, I gave him the benefit of the doubt because there wasn't much available. As the off season progressed, things got worse.
Some would argue as well that he made the trade you are referring to in the off season when he traded Sergachev for Drouin. My only personal qualm with that move was that we now or still needed a top pairing LD and I don't view Drouin as a natural center.
Regardless, if Sergachev and a 2nd can get Drouin and a 6th then Lehkonen, Hudon and a 1st would hold value. The main reason that trade wouldn't happen is because the organization themselves value Lehkonen and Hudon highly, not myself. I'm sure they aren't names that immediately come to mind for them when they think trade.
I actually think that it was bob 's biggest blunder not addressing our center need in the 03' draft when that draft was full of them.
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2 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:
I don't particularly like Lehkonen so I'm not sure how my Habs blinders come into the equation.
Lehkonen is arguably a top 6 player on many NHL teams, Hudon is a top 9 player and then you're adding a 1sg round pick and you don't think we'd be able to get a top 6 player back? That's like saying we couldn't get Valperri Filpulla for those players without even considering age, contract or any other factors. My blinders don't have me viewing Lehkonen as having top 6 potential, that's just where his value is.
We don't have to trade away our best player to receive our best player back.
If it was that easy as you say don't you think Bergevin would of made a deal by now? There's a reason why he can't find a trading partner even with all this cap space.
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12 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:
I don’t fully understand why Pacioretty is an issue. He’s as much of an issue as Drouin is, only Drouin is a newer face. Pacioretty wasn’t the reason we lost in the seasons that we did go deep with him.
It’s as though we’re saying the team would be better with Tavares than it would be with Tavares and Pacioretty.
As for trading away for another team’s stud while giving away spare parts, it may be unlikely but if a team does indeed identify a need, they should start to look at the standings and target the teams who will be selling at lower than normal value. It is possible, although we shouldn’t hold our breath.
Unfortunately the Habs seem more likely to be the target of other teams this season.
All that being said, I don’t know why trading away Lehknonen + Hudon + a 1st doesn’t get other GMs thinking about trading away a top 6 center. Perhaps not Tavares but there are other options out there as well.
Pacioretty is Bergevin only bargaining chip, he is under contract for next year 4.5mil for a 30 goal scorer, and doesn't have any NTC or NMC. He is his best asset to get something back in return ie 2nd like center or top 2 D.
You need to take your habs blinders off. Lehkonen +Hudon and a 1st wont get you a top 6 player. You are over valuing these guys because you're a habs fan.
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6 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
I doubt that even MB is enough of a moron to still think this core can ever win anything other than a charity golf tournament.
The question, to my mind, is whether Patches will move at the deadline, or sometime in the summer. I can see MB clinging to the hope of a UFA white night and only flipping Pacioretty after that falls through.
Thats what I think, I don't see him making any big moves until July 1st. If he can't land tavares then I believe he will trade Pacioretty. Now tell the deadline we will probely see some more band aid type deals that he will hope stop the bleeding.
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4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
I agree. Only rarely do you find a GM delusional enough to trade a core piece for a mess of spare parts, a 1st-liner for a bunch of third-liners and maybes. It's not realistic to expect a GM to swing a Thornton-for-garbage kinda deal.
What about Pacioretty for, say, Nugent-Hopkins and a good prospect? An under-sell?
Pacioretty is part of our core players. Bergevin doesn't want to give up on our core because he thinks they're good to win with. So Pacioretty isn't going anywhere, Bergevin wants to add a top center or top pairing d without breaking up his core. Its not going to happen with the prospects that we have, which Is why he is finding it hard to swing a deal. His only option is to trade from our core group, ie Pacioretty, Gallagher, galchenyuk, that's why these players names keep coming up in trade rumors because those are his only option tell July 1st to try and improve the team.
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9 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:
I agree that that's certainly a more reasonable reason to question Bergevin's tenure. I also feel as though he has lacked a clear plan many times during his tenure.
With th that being said, I'm not as convinced that we don't have players who could bring back value to our team. Players like Lehkonen and Hudon have value to us, as well as other teams. I personally think Lehkonen is overvalued and if he were part of the price to pay for a strong center, it wouldn't kill us.
This is just one example. I don't particularly want to trade Lehkonen, and even less so Hudon, but our cupboard isn't as bare as some would say.
Trading Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Drouin wouldn't be what I would personally do, but packaging some of Byron, Lehkonen, Danault, Shaw, Scherbak, Hudon, etc. could get us a return during a normal season.
The only issue is that we don't tend to package these players in deals for good returns (Desharnais for Davidson). Instead we ship them out in one for one deals. The other issue is that this season, mostly all wouldn't think we should not be buyers at this point and as a result would probably have the opposite vision as t what we should do. I.e. Trading Pacioretty.
What I mean by blue chip prospects is top 6 prospects, We have 0. top 2 d prospects we have maybe 1 in Mete. But I see him more as a 3rd pairing D top pairing d on pp. These are the kind of prospects you need to trade if you're looking to add to your roster without trading your core group of players. I am sorry but a Hudon,sherbak, lehkonen,danault aren't going to land you a tavares in a trade or any other top 6 NHL play for that matter.
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For me when it comes to why I have turned my back on Bergevin, its because of the lack of player development. In his 5 years here it has been very poor. We are seeing the affect of it now. You can even make the point that it has been bad ever since our core players became our core players. Its like we stopped the development of players after that. Now he can't make a trade to add a player to the roster because we have no blue chip prospects that other teams want. He has traded away top prospects for players without refilling the farm system. The only way he can make a trade is by trading a core player. He doesn't want to do that and that's why we're in the situation we're in now.
To me this is someone without a plan. Because of this the team has lost its identity and its direction. When that happens the only way to fix it is with change. I hate to say it but its time for a new vision for this team.
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16 minutes ago, illWill said:
Or even better,
Canada vs Czech Republic in the semi-final is also on.
I suppose a person could also flick to the Hab's game on commercial breaks
If we say Canadian's and not Canada Would that be like cheering for our habs???.
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I am scared?? to watch this game.
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I think we made a mistake when we let the best coach in our organization Walk. That man was gallant. No surprise things started to fall apart after he left.
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I really thought CJ would be the right fit for this club. When we signed him i was happy. Thought we finally had a coach that could take the next step with this team. But i am starting to realize it's a young mans game today. I don't think CJ understands that. I don't think he knows how to coach in today's NHL. The same could be said with Bergevin. He has a old school way of thinking, which doesn't work any more in today's NHL. What this organization needs is a guy who is brought up through management in today's era of hockey.
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I think Molson and Bergevin are in a stair down contest to see who blinks first. So I ask habs fans does Molson blink first and Bergevin actually make a trade to try and improve his team???? Or does Bergevin blink first and molson cleans house.
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16 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
The team is doing that already
There is not a veteran player on this team who should be rated untouchable, except perhaps #31. But surely the GM should be looking to add to young guys like Gally, Galy, Lehkonen, Drouin, etc., rather than shipping out those under-26 types. The point is to raise the white flag on the Pleks/Patches era.
I would build this team around Gallagher. If only we can put his heart inside Pacioretty.
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7 minutes ago, Chris said:
I believe it was Gomez first year, they played the Flyers.
Why Shaw" he has been very good all year?
Do what it takes to get a top 3 pick
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Time to cut bate. Shaw, Plekenec, perty, should be trade if not by the deadline then at the deadline.If you can't get a great offer for Pacioretty, then trade him at the draft.
Bergevin......
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
Thats if he wants to trade his core guys which he doesn't. He is trying to get a number 1c without taking away from the teams core and/or top prospects. Its never going to happen. Which is why he can't make any trades. Try and understand?