xXx..CK..xXx
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Posts posted by xXx..CK..xXx
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1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:
Ranger sweaters with a Habs logo. Abomination i say.
Is our white jersey any different than a white Rangers jersey with a Habs logo? They’re really not the same...
Not to mention the blue is different.
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1 hour ago, DON said:
2 is too many, gimmick served its purpose and am sure sold lots of blue Hab jerseys.
I’m sure they did as well. I love mine and there’s a bunch of jerseys I liked from the retro group. If I still lived in LA, I would have grabbed one of those Kings throwback jerseys in a second!
Anyway, it’s a bit silly to think that our jersey colour has had any impact on our performance. Grasping at straws.
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0-2 = small sample size needless to say
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I’m enjoying the Drouin line. The good thing about the line is that you can name anyone on the line, and it’s their line.
”The Suzuki line”
”The Anderson line”
”The Drouin line”
They all work for me. 😁
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5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
A lot of people like the blue jerseys...I find them irritating.
Vintage end to end rush by McDavid there, mercifully stopped by Allen
My personal opinion is that they look a lot better from close up, rather than far away.
It would be nice if they would wear them on nights where the other team was wearing their reverse retro as well, though it would be a potential issue of both colours were similar colour, or both dark, etc.
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I sure hope Price wins a cup here, that’s for sure!
If Price were to retire today, it would indeed seem like a rather “ordinary” career in terms of earning such such an honour as jersey retirement in my opinion. With that being said, all time leader in games played for a goaltender, as well as all time leader in regular season wins for the organization makes for a good argument in and of its own.
If I were a betting man, I’d say it’s over 50% likely that Price’s jersey will be retired when all is said and done.
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14 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:
The way he is managing his players right now, it seems like he WANTS to get fired, so he can go somewhere else like Seattle.
I appreciate your argument in general on the topic but this has biased opinion written all over it. While it is possible that someone wouldn’t enjoy their work place, I find it extremely unlikely that Tortorella wants to get fired.
It’s not a matter of all of the players saying the right things... (Laine said he deserved some repercussion) It’s merely a matter of the media blowing things out of proportion and Columbus fan being displeased with the perceived notion that Tortorella runs players out of town.
Tortorella will indeed eventually get fired but for all the smack he gets because of his unique mannerisms, he’s also far and away better than many coaches in the league, including his predecessor in Columbus, Todd Richards.
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Yeah the numbers are better on Andersen’s end but neither goalie really stood out. I thought Price could have had his glove prepared a little higher on the Holl goal but the shots that beat him were fairly precise. Andersen didn’t have much of a chance on the Anderson goal but looked fairly awkward on the Tatar goal. 1 relatively questionable goal against each, and I’d say the Andersen softy was worse.
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Ref literally responsible for Romanov injury.
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I didn’t realize that Marner has never scored against the Habs, let alone that we’re the only team he hasn’t scored against.
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Yessir. I was going to say after that first shift for the Leafs, time to take over for the rest of the game.
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I’m excited for the game tonight. I’m thinking some of the Habs may be feeling the same way tonight. I expect a good effort and I’m hoping for a big win!
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21 minutes ago, Commandant said:
Ryan Johansen
Panarin
Bobrovsky
Duchene
Dubois
All of them running from Torts just during his Columbus time, when he's supposedly been "more mellow"There is also tons of evidence in Vancouver and New York and Tampa.
Panarin was going to test free agency regardless. Duchene was a rental and Bobrovsky was elite as a jacket so issues with Tortorella or not, I’m not sure what the issue is there.
Duchene, Dubois, Johansen. Does no one else see how all three of these players are notoriously overrated and often lack effort? I actually wanted the Habs to trade Galchenyuk for Duchene years ago, but he also had his issues in Ottawa, re: The “taxi squad”. He’s not exactly a model player, and many people here would agree.
All three of Dubois, Duchene, and Johansen are players who NEED a good kick in the a$$. If they are that sensitive then so be it.
I don’t know, I can see the point that these players actually had issues with Tortorella, but I state for the third time that I hold the players accountable as well.
We could find plenty of examples with every coach where players were disgruntled at one point or another. All of this has also overlooked anything good Tortorella has achieved like getting more out of certain average players, as well as things like being part of the reason a team led by him demolished the Habs 10-0, as well as sweeping the Lightning as heavy underdogs in the playoffs. Tortorella gets more out of his players than some other coaches are capable of as well.
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18 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said:
Torts is loving all of this attention.
At this point, you sound like an over emotional Columbus fan.
What you said about Tortorella... “there’s a reason”. There’s also a reason the Habs let Vigneault go. There’s a reason Vancouver let Vigneault go. There’s a reason the New York Rangers let Vigneault go.
Tortorella has an old school method, but it’s not as big of a deal as the fans and media are making it out to be. Tortorella has had more success than a lot of coaches.
There’s a reason Tortorella won the Stanley Cup (I know, it’s ONLY because of the players he had). There’s a reason Tortorella had coached the USA National team, and there’s a reason Tortorella is still coaching Columbus.
I get that people love to hate him, and my mission is not to change anyone’s mind.
I just know the players certainly have a responsibility and need to be held accountable as well.
As for the “driving players out of town”
debate, I don’t buy it. Sure, it’s possible that a few players have wanted out because of Tortorella, but the same can be said for almost any coach out there. Tortorella “incidents” are just more publicized.
Jeff Carter also didn’t want to
be part of the organization, and I’m sure that was Tortorella’s fault as well.
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55 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:
I would think the grade should be in relation to there position...
An example Petry as a #2 is surely at A+
Toffoli as 3rd line LW surely an A+
Tatar as 1A/1B LW a C
Price as #1 B
Allen as a backup A
What is the grade of Evans and Lehkonan performance in relation to their position?
Not who's the best on the team ... thats simply to easy an analysis
This type of analysis would also be skewed because one night Danault could be your 1st line center, and another he could be your 3rd. Especially with the way the habs are configured. Regardless of how it’s written down on paper, Toffoli is not a 3rd line LW.My approach would be to have a knowledgeable base of the player’s potential and rate how he had performed compared to that expected ability. Again, this method can be tarnished by bias (different people will rate a player’s base differently) but the most neutral approach would have the most accurate performance ratings.
It wouldn’t simply be a matter of saying who’s the best player on the team in this case. If Jake Evans was the 3rd leading scorer on the team, behind Tatar and Gallagher, well he’d likely still have the highest rating on the team, as an example.
I think in the end, what we are saying is quite similar. But the Tatar 1a/1b vs Toffoli 3rd line may have been alright last year, but I’m not so convinced with this year’s lines. Danault is playing like a 3rd line center, while KK and Suzuki are outperforming him statistically. Right now Tatar is the 3rd line LW as far as I’m concerned and again this could change in a week’s time.
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27 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:
There is more than enough evidence that being publicly shamed instead of instructed pisses people off!Stars leave and the team suffers.
The fact that players don’t want to play there is all the evidence you need.
I think it’s completely overblown that “stars don’t want to play there (because of Torts).”Laine needs to man up, and I’m sure he will.
Columbus has recently been in all-in mode, and have in turn acquired a few rentals who had expiring deals. Once they leave, it’s easy to say it was because of Torts. When Radulov (could list more examples) left the Habs, I can assure you it wasn’t because of Torts.
Sometimes players want to test the market.
I’ll give you Dubois as a plausible example, even though he denied it, but so what? Torts isn’t the only coach who has rubbed off a player the wrong way. He’s just a little more extreme, and discussed.
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This is a topic that’s all over the place for me because while I can see the argument against Tortorella’s actions, we’re basically saying that modern age athletes have to be pampered.
I remember as an 8 year old, I would get upset at the thought of one of the better players on the team getting a double shift over me, and at that age, I think playing time should be split fairly evenly.
In the NHL, I find that there is nothing wrong with having to earn your minutes. It’s perhaps arguable whether or not the method of benching a player actually works with everyone. As a coach, it is very important to know the personality of your players, and how to push their buttons. As a result, it would be incorrect to assume that every single player Torts has done this with, will actually benefit in a positive manner. In this way, Tortorella certainly needs the ability to have some introspection about his actions.
In the end, whether or not one agrees with his method, there have been a substantial amount of people who have claimed that Dubois’ famous “shift” was indeed putrid, and that Laine was indeed motionless as he left a player wide open to score a goal.
I find it hard to believe that Torts is simply out there pushing buttons at random, which I understand no one is suggesting. But if I am a player that Torts benched, then I am simply pointing the finger at myself rather than the coach.
It’s a very fine line for me, because Dubois and Laine could cry themselves out of town all they want, and Tortorella could very well be the influence that pushed them over the top. However, on the other hand, these star players need to have a better attitude, if they would want to jump ship at the first sign of adversity.
I was always a hustler on the ice who worked hard every shift, and so I would have been fine on a Tortorella led team and tend to view it as up to the player not to give Tortorella a reason to treat them/me in such a manner. On the other hand, Tortorella would need to understand that Laine will never have McDavid’s speed, nor Tomas Plekanec’s defensive prowess and he should therefore never expect such. He (Torts) perhaps has room to grow as well.
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16 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:
I would NEVER take Bishop over Price.
That’s fine. Statistically, Bishop is the best goalie in the NHL over the past 5 years amongst goalies who have played a meaningful amount of games, though.
I also said I would consider a trade for “a Bishop caliber goalie+ for Price+“
Never say never. Should whatever piece comes with the “Bishop caliber goalie” be enticing, I’d prefer that route than simply going with Allen and a completely unproven backup over Price and his cap space. Sounds terrible to me. -
I personally feel that’s way too high for Lehkonen. It’s probably because of his short handed prowess, but still would not rate his performance as better than anyone on the Drouin line.
Byron was one of two lone Habs not to have a goal yet, along with Danault. Yes, he is on the fourth line, but he has had the capacity to score 20 goals in this league in the past and so I have him underperforming.
Evans in my mind is similar to Subban, yet on a completely different scale, in that he is simultaneously underrated and overrated at the same time. It seems as though people are eager for him to do well and I have liked many instances of his play but in the end it’s 2 points in 12 games, (poehling had 3 in his first NHL game [yes I know Evans handles other areas better]) lots of penalty minutes, and a decent face-off percentage. Nothing to write home about outside of a “good performance from a young kid”.
I will admit, I am slightly harder on Evans than most in general.
I made my ratings purposely ignoring what the Athletic had done because I did not want to be swayed. But I do think they handicapped the reality that a player is on the 4th line and have a different role and opportunity than a 1st liner per se. In the end, I still stand by my (personal opinion) ratings for the most part.
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The problem with suggesting that Price is merely average, is that he is not easily replaceable. “His reputation of the past” is what it is and therefore anyone new coming in, will indeed have his shoes to fill. It is entirely possible that after Price leaves, we turn out to have a revolving door of goalies until the next “one” joins the organization.
Similar to Commandant, if I were asked to pick one goalie in the league to represent my team, Price would indeed be on the very short list with Bishop and Vasilevskiy. I’d even choose Price over Rask.
If you were to tell me that there were a trade opportunity involving Price+ for a Bishop caliber goalie+ then I would love to consider it. On the other hand, I am not in agreement that Allen + Primeau would be a better situation than we are in now, simply because we would have cap space to spend. Price needs to be replaced by an elite in order to even consider this conversation.
Cap space has not been an issue, and so why make it one? It really hasn’t been a big deal to have Carey on the books for $10,000,000. It’s only been an issue that we have not spent available organizational cap space. This year, in its so far short span, has demonstrated that we would have the capability to have a rather potent offence even while spending that much on a starting goaltender.
It’s certainly an east moment to pick on Price, and those who are will have the voice in their head saying “there’s been many moments we could have picked on him recently”, but I have confidence in Price having the capability of helping a strong team win the Stanley Cup.
He’s our guy, and should he falter, it will be nice to have a reliable backup who can step in and play well. Good problem to have! Similar to Boston, Vegas, and even Khudobin in Dallas last year.
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My numbers 🤷♂️
Not a general ranking but just a perspective from my own “eye test” of how they’ve played through the first 10 games.
Toffoli 91
Suzuki 88
Petry 88
Weber 87
Anderson 85
Gallagher 84
Drouin 84
Allen 84
Chiarot 84
Lehkonen 83
Evans 82
Perry 82
Romanov 81
Tatar 81
Edmundson 81
Kotkaniemi 80
Price 80
Armia 78
Kulak 77
Byron 77
Danault 74
Mete 72
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This conversation is the byproduct of having a good backup goaltender for the first time in awhile.
That reality has kind of transitioned into a topic about Price when we should simply be happy that we have two relatively equal goalies, statistically.
I’ve already stated my opinion, which is fully in support of Price.
With that being said as was suggested in the initial post, Price’s numbers have indeed somewhat declined over the past few years. If one were to look at his save percentage over the last 10 years, it stands at .918. If you shorten that to over the last 5 years, his save percentage is .913 over that span. A .913 save percentage places him about 20th over the last 5 years out of goalies who have played over 100 games.
Other goalies with .913 save percentage over the last 5 years: Markstrom, Hart
What is Allen’s save percentage over the last 5 years? .912
Other goalies who have a .918 over the last 10 years: Lehner, Gibson, Schneider, Khudobin, Crawford, Lundqvisy, Vokoun, Kuemper, Luongo.
My conclusion is that it can certainly be argued that Price has declined statistically somewhere over the past 5 years and may no longer be in the top top tier cream of the crop statistically on a consistent basis.
However Price’s ceiling is still very high and it’s always possible that some of these other goalies’ number have been inflated based on the team in front of them.
In addition, expecting a better outcome just because something is different and “no longer Price” does not mean it will be better. Allen’s ceiling (at absolute best) would be to be an equal with Price on any given night. We need to stick with Price, and I personally have full confidence in him.
** as a side note, I am aware that I simply noted save percentage as of it were the be all end all statistic. However, regardless of the category, Price is around the same area statistically and leads nowhere over the last 5 years outside of the amount of losses he has. Statstically, he’s
been a middle of the pack starter over the past few years.
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I agree that Price should certainly clearly be considered the team’s starting goalie.
Outside of that, Price hasn’t been the goalie we’ve come to expect on a consistent basis for years. Prior to getting Niemi, so awhile ago, I made a thread on here that the Habs need a better backup goalie. At that point in time, Price seemingly controlled his fate because there was no one behind him on the depth chart who could keep him looking over his shoulder should he continue to falter.
With all that being said, despite erratic play and not living up to some exceedingly high expectations, I am entirely grateful that we have Price. Even though we are discussing him now, I never go into a game fearful that he could perform sub-par. Of course he does, but it’s rarely a predominant fear. I much prefer him as our goaltender than a Sheshterkin, or Saros, as examples. They are great goalies and far from the worst starters (Jones?) however they do not instil a certain level of confidence in me that a Price, Rask, Vasilevskiy, Bishop, dare I say Fleury (I know CC isn’t a fan) instil in me.
I’m willing to ride or die with Price and fear the day we no longer have him. If we happen to have a goalie remotely the caliber of Price after his retirement, I will once again be happy.
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My personal opinion is that people have high expectations of the Habs and low expectations of the Sens. At the end of the day, it’s still an NHL match and we walked out with the win.
No reason for any disappointment as I’ve rarely been in a hockey locker room that’s been filled with disappointment after picking up a W, deserved or not.
What’s that saying?..... “good teams find a way to win when they aren’t playing their best.”
Nice to get 2 points & on to the next one.
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Feb 11, Oilers vs Habs, 8:00 PM
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
I thought that may be the response and I respect your opinion. They don’t look like Rangers jerseys to me on the other hand.
We’re also wearing blue pants and a blue helmet and that’s where things get thrown off to me. Ironically, I think the whole getup would look even better if we actually looked more like Columbus/New York with the red pants.
Then again, Tampa rocks the blue pants/helmet, as do the Leafs... Canucks as well.
Columbus is the only team I can think of that have worn both blue pants and red pants depending on their jersey.