IN THE HEARTS OF MEN
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Posts posted by IN THE HEARTS OF MEN
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All the Plekanec love is commendable guys.... but you compare younger players to him, in this stage of their careers, in what he excels at and that's hardly fair...
Lets compare his speed and puck skill to Galchenyuk... not close.
Let's compare his shot to Patcioretty's...not close.
Let's compare his "effort level" to Gallagher's, again not close.
Let's compare what he does in the playoffs, I know, he has the same PPG in the playoffs, blah, blah, blah...but what about last playoffs at -7, and he lead us to get shut out last game?
Plek's has a great, all round, consistant game, and is the best complete hockey player on the team, but you have to compare apples to apples.
Saying that Eller or Galchenyuk cannot take his place is a no brainer, they can't, but they may bring more to the team in another capacity, and be great players in their own right.
Not advocating trading Plek, I have before, but not as the team stands now, no way I trade him, he is indeed a centerpiece for us. But as good as he is, he's no Guy Carbonneau either.... however he is essential on this Habs team being a consistant winning team.
Although the Habs have no heir apparent in his role, it doesn't mean the team couldn't be improved overall by trading him, it of course depends on the return, and he isn't going to be the "one" that stands out individually, and leads us to the cup either.
Just to see fair comparisons would be refreshing.... I don't see Eller or Galchenyuk as better than Plek at what he does, there are few in the league better at what he does, and I don't want to see either of those guys replace what he does, I want them to be more about scoring, and being physical, and they are both on the way to being better than him at that physical side of the game already... and they have a lot to learn to be close in other areas, granted.
We need them all, but in their own roles...
I'd see what training camp brings for that other winger, and go from there, there is no pressing need to trade Thomas Plekanec and weaken the team up the middle, to improve the wing... his defensive skill cannot be replaced with a 20 goal scorer, they don't make too many Plekanecs that can do both like he does, and he is a life long Hab, and maybe deserves a little loyalty out of you that want him traded, like Markov received this season.
Redundant argument since the Habs can't really afford to trade him, and really aren't likely to trade him....
guy carbonneau he is not thats for sure but, that role on our team is occupied by him... comparing apples to apples would not in any way be comparing gallagher to plex... it would be comparing the crop of C's we have now young, old big small... it doesn't matter! a Center is a Center!!... see what there strengths are and putting them in situations to succeed.
DD= best playmaker hands down with great vision (center #1 OFF line) #1PP C
eller= big,fast, throws the body, defensive responsible young and needs talented forwards (centre #2 line with a spark plug and a player oozing w/talent ready to burst EGG) #2PP C
plex= best all around centre... able to man mark any player in the league at any given time and still be effective in the OFF zone as well. ability to still chip in secondary scoring while playing with marginal wingers... #1PK specialist on one of the better PK teams in league. #1PK C
malhotra= one of the best face off man in hockey. big heavy body also able to play a strong responsible game... play 2nd wave of the PK
personally i think were set at C... with young depth in galchenyuk, bournival as well as prust (who can take a face off and play C as well) they all can chip in here and there in case of injury). Sure in a perfect world DD would be 6'3" and 200 lbs but he continues to defy the odds in his hockey career and i wouldn't in the least be surprised if he broke 70pts this season..... if paranteau is able to land in MTL with his skates firmly planted on the ice that is!!!
One major problem with the habs scoring woes over the years has been that plex's role as our best shutdown center/ #1 pk specialist has been employed from the #1/#2C spot.... its high time we got a #2 (Eller gets his shot) to be that guy and plex plays the 3rd line role in the proper spot in the line up (as possibly the best 3rd line C in the league!!!!!)
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If he has such good value, it's an excellent reason to trade him. As far as I am concerned, he doesn't deliver in the playoffs and it's what counts to me.
last i checked plex's career playoffs stats are pretty much exactly what they are in regular season give or take.... add to that his ability to keep stamkos from running us over in round 1 and the kreici line that was lethal the year prior to pretty much non existent. our PK was even remarkable till we got blown up in the first 3 games of the ECF.....
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i can see bournival coming to camp bigger faster stronger and more fit. I'm sure he knows as well as the entire line up that this habs team is deep and getting a spot in the line up is not a gimmie. i think he'll be ready to play and force MB's hand on Moen who has essentially been replaced by Weise.
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kids a fantastic talent has great vision. and thats were he sits in depth right now on the habs..... in my eyes...
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Patch- DD -Parenteau
galchenyuk- Eller- Gallagher
Bourque- Plex- Weise
Prust- Malholtra- Moen
bournival
sekac
DeLaRose
Andrighetto
Reway*** kids fantastic
sekac will have to earn his spot at 22 not just be handed it... Moen will get the benefit of the doubt to start the season over bournival and i can't see MT letting a veteran sit opening day if healthy and looking to rebound from a disastrous season......
Markov Subban
Emelin Gilbert
Tinordi Weaver
Beaulieau
Pateryn
Tinordi ahead of Beaulieau simply because of special teams and his big big body on the PK!!
Price
Tokarski
Budaj
Thats my opening day line up barring any more moves this offseason....
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on the eller topic... I must stress that I'm not putting him above plex merely trying to put them both in situations that can make us better and more balanced. i just think eller should be given a scoring role this season and let plex have the shutdown role..... eller is going into this season pretty much at the same age and time it took plex to show up at the NHL level. i think its his year to finally take the next step......
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I'm clearly not undervaluing plex... simply saying were i would employ him to have optimum balance throughout our line up. come on an elite shut down centre in the league able to pot 20+ on the 3rd line??? thats fantastic and what cup teams are made of......technically saying to employ him in a role similar to guy carbonneau is a tribute and compliment to plex as Guy was one of my all time favourite habs growing up......
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In the habs depth structure I don't think it's about who is #2 and #3C. I just think plex thrives more on the ice when put in a defensive role on a shut down line rather then an offensive on (please don't remind me of his breakout season back in 07 cause that was ages ago). I for one would like to see the EGG line re-united as an offense minded line. Last year they clicked early but were broken up to try and get patch and DD going... Hopefully paranteau can do that and the kids can take the next step as well
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I don't see the rush to move galchenyuk to center and why plex needs to go... Plex needs to be used at 3rd line center on a very good habs team and play him as a shut down center with offensive upside. We should be employing him the same way we employed guy carboneau... He will flourish even more there with less pressure. Frankly, I don't think galchenyuk is ready for top 2 center role just yet... He's still a little soft on the puck and not nearly as responsible in his own end quite yet. Not to mention he can't take a face off.... If he can stay healthy all year and really break out this coming season next year will be his year to make the move.
DD
Eller
Plex
Malholtra
Prust
Bournival
Center depth for next season
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No no we need an identity, we need a captain right away.
The more I think about it the more I believe max is in fact the guy. If you look at the situation more so you'll see max and gio are actually very very similar hockey players so to speak.... just one is younger bigger faster and stronger. But voice off the ice, good ol' American boy and all.....
Plex has no letters right now and has been looked over in the past on a bunch of occasions it doesn't seem to bother him. Subban and marky can feel as equals and help dictate the play of our team
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This is going to be his sink or swim season regardless. He isn't as awful as say Del Zotto but he's now 25. That's the "no excuse" year for most players. He'll find himself off the Habs and becoming a journeyman like Benoit Pouliot was for years if he doesn't put together a consistent season.
Putting together a consistent season means there's no more excuses on his linemates. No excuses on his minutes unless they average under 10 a game. No excuses on lack of powerplay time. Night in and night out, Eller has to play consistent hockey and push Therrien to play his line against top competition on the road. If he isn't helping put the puck in the net he better be a presence otherwise.
I would rather see Galchenyuk struggle the whole season at center than see Lars Eller do "moderately well" at center. I want Eller to be pushing either DD (who at $3.5M is a huge commodity for the team) or Plekanec right out of the lineup because he does their job better. Otherwise we should move him for a need.
100%
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i want us to have a number 1 pair on the defence period.
markov subban
they played fantastic together and at one point were arguably the best tandem in hockey. sure they had a few hiccups at a stage in the season where the whole team was slacking but these 2 together over an 82 game schedule would be fantastic. now with the re structured D core this will be possible.
emelin gilbert
similar foot speed, both have a decent first pass that they can now take on there forehand while heading up the ice. emelin will be back to throwing the body with his knee problems mentally behind him(hopefully) in year 2 post OP. gilbert has 2 years and something to prove on a winning team for once......
tinordi weaver
eat up big minutes on the PK to keep marky and subban fresh for 5on5. and play major defensive roles for the team.
special teams
subban R, gilbert R 1 PP*** my thoughts here are to constantly have one defender ready for a cross body one timer. Leaving Marky on his left side to QB and sneak in off the point without constantly switching sides with PK so he can get his one timer off!
markyL emelinL 2 PP***
weaver tinman 1PK
markov emelin 2 PK
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i just think markov is out of the equation.. he doesn't want it.... he'll keep his A
Max with the C
markov A
Subban A
The shift from the gorges/ gio era has allowed MB to hand this team over to the next generation in leadership. Its only natural that 2 letters will go to the new "younger" core and one will be the veteran presence. this i believe will leave plex as the odd man out!!
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I don't see why we can't keep both on opening night but start using Eller on a scoring line at 2C and use plex the way he should of been used since he started in this league, 3rd line checking line center with scoring upside. Able to shut down the other teams top guys and be our #1 pk guy
Patch DD Paranteau
Galchenyuk Eller Gallagher
Bourque Plex Bournival/Sekac/DeLaRose
Prust Malholtra Weise
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You watch the Kings, and their possession game, and it's hard not to envy it.
But, beware. Nothing last forever, especially systems play in sports. How good did tika-taka look for Spain this month?
Teams eventually adjust, much like they did versus the Bruins, with the shot blocking (and a lot of help from Price).
I am happy to see the Habs (finally) following the trends of the league.
tiki taka didn't work not because of the system being founded but the players not executing.... casillas has been bouncing in and out of the line up due to form, pique is older and lost a step, they lost their captain and defensive anchor in the back in puyol, Xavi has dropped considerably just to name a few! even their golden ball'er ineista wasn't in form and hasn't been for close to 2 years... they have essentially had the same team since 2008 and failed to introduce new fresh players to their system which in turn has caused their demise. not their system. tiki taka or tic tac toe in soccer simply means "keep away" or possession soccer which never goes out of style when executed..... much like the counter attack or rope a dope....
is montreal trending to a possesion team like the bruins or kings? i don't think so... their moving to a high tempo transition speed game much like chicago or the teams of past glory... strong goaltending, shot blocking, crisp first pass transition from the defence and speed. while getting bigger they certainly aren't trading speed for size!
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why are people saying we replaced gorges with gilbert? when its weaver who is replacing gorges and his shot blocking, chip/ dump the puck, Penalty killing, def oriented game .
gilbert is a 4th defender who moves the puck quickly up the boards and looks for the pass.
markov subban
emelin gilbert
tinordi weaver
beaulieau
pateryn
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That's obviously not true. There were offers for him that included more than we got.
MB took the pick instead because he believed Gilbert could fill Gorges' skates just as well for less money, and he had an agreement to sign him. (He might be right about Gilbert. If he's decent defensively, it appears he brings some offense to the table, and he's a right-hand shot. If you allow your players to play better by putting them where they naturally fit rather than pounding the square peg into the round hole, you can improve by replacing a stronger player with a slightly weaker one.)
gorges is a warrior no doubt. but this move is great any way you look at it.
-4 million over 4 years gone off the cap for a 5/6 defencemen and yes that is over payment on both term and dollars for a one dimensional player.... please don't tell me he earns his money off the ice and in the dressing room!
-weaver signed to replace gorges character on the ice at 1.75 for only a single season (giving tinordi a chance to round into form)
-emelin replaces gorges spot in the line up on the left side allowing him to flourish in his 2nd year post op (almost all athletes need a full year post op before they really start to play like there former selves. he will also be able to open up and force players outside without having to open up with his right leg..... that is huge in his recovery mentally from his ACL.
- gilbert replaces emelin on the right side!!
-we are definitely a more balanced defensive group
all that remains is the leadership in the dressing room from gorges..... markov weaver will lead by example on the ice and subban is showing how mature he can be saying all the right things at all the right times....
plus we get a 2nd round pick..... win win situation
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-i could be wrong but I'm pretty sure we went 10-0 with gorges out of the line up this season and actually struggled upon his return.
-subban and markov were actually one of the best tandems in the league before MT broke them up to create more balance in the line up.
- subban struggled without gorges? you mean when he through bouillon into top pairing minutes?
- your captain needs to be one of your best players and gorges is not that. brave yes, vocal yes, but he is soft on the puck can't make plays or clear the net. sure he'll dive head first to block a shot but..... he is not a top pair defender!!
-the new captain will be either markov, subban, patches or plex!!
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just being realistic here. do we really need more 3rd and 4th liners? i dont think so unless were trading some of all our signed ones. what we do need is top end talent for our top 6 especially when plex and gionta( if signed) are moving down the line up . we still have the inside track with vanek so just saying....( and why is he guaranteed full term, full dollars and a no clause guaranteed? like i said i would attempt to sign him and would even give him term but would stress no clauses.
id take greene to but with gorges and emelin signed and with markov needed for the PP can we really bring him on? i want to move gorges but MB called him one of our leaders so fat chance that happens. our only hope is tinordi plays his way up the line up and gorges moves down to the 3rd pairing.
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do we really want someone who is commanding 4 million after 2 horrible off seasons? seems to me the high scoring season was a one off and this is who kulimen is... not a 4 million player but a 2 million guy.
my wants...
pacioretty DD VANEK (signed to 5/6 years with no clauses what so ever) a very tradeable asset who was had for nothing. we should not let him go and could always trade him .
galchenyuk eller gallagher
bourque plex bournival
prust briere weise (a little bit of muscle for briere)
moen
gionta
de la Rose (could be ready?)
white
tinordi(l)subban®
©markov(l) weaver(r)
gorges(l)pateryn® quietly outplayed both tinordi and beaulieau in hamilton all season)
beaulieau(l)
boullion(l)admireable depth defencemen at 1million)
price
budaj
tokarski
i left all signed players on the team even if some need to be moved. opening day line up?
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i think moving forward plex can and should slot in as our #3 checking centre, a position he should have occupied each of the last 5 seasons. he is our best PK'er and has the ability to shut down the competition. add 15-20 goals a year and you got one of the best 3rd line centre's in hockey.
i understand he's making 5 million per but on a team sitting 6th in cap space isn't much of an issue (with 7 players to sign i think?). not to mention the new rogers tv deal pushing the cap even higher the season after next!
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Losing Weise for tonight's game is a blow. I know that we are not talking about Pax or Subban, but that guy is a revelation this spring. He not only is big and fast, but also has good hockey sense and better skills that we thought.
and his heart has always belonged to Montreal. he's a hab through and through
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I'm wondering whether the Boston series just left too many of our guys too beat up. It's worth remembering the unbelievable level of physicality in that series - and that we were up against one of the most physically intimidating teams in the game. Could be that it's actually the Boston Bruins beating us more than the New York Rangers.
Pleks, meanwhile, may be showing the effects of the Olympic year in addition to that. I'm surprised no one is pointing that out in his defence.
how many players in this final four played in the olympics? my guess is a minimum of 25/30? i don't think that is a reason as much as an excuse.
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I've seen our PP blossom over the years with Markov feeding lefties on the right streit, souray schneids etc. etc. now subban has a great shot and if you notice he is always stopping the puck before shooting because the natural one timer isn't there unless he and marky switch making pk's shot more effective but taking away marky's ability to distribute. i can't stress this out enough.
Galchenyuk at Center
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
My conclusion: plex's heavy 5on5 minutes is most attributed to him continuously getting the nod to play against the opposition's best players (who usually play the most minutes on there team). it isn't plex's fault that the habs have been weak at C for years and he's been forced to play a duel role as a scoring/ shutdown #1 PK and PP guy. i don't understand.... we finally have depth in the position... we have a big kid (Eller) still only 25. At some point we have to go "ALL IN" with the kid and really see what we have. why not give him every possible avenue to succeed? to make him a great asset. have we really done that yet? sure we've been responsible with him and got him to buy in to a 2 way game but now we need to take the leash off and let the kid take chanches, make mistakes without wall papering to the bench or the stands..... or else just freakin trade him!!!
habs want to reach the next level..... this is how they need to line up
patch DD paranteau
galchenyuk eller gallagher
bourque plex weise
prust malholtra (moen)bournival***
sekac*
***moen gets the nod to show he has something left in the tank after the concussion
*sekac needs to earn his spot not just have it handed over at 22yrs old!