The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Posts posted by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Habs are the 2nd worse team in the NHL. That's what happened.
Yep, every game these days I just can't believe the crap we're watching out there. If you had entered a time machine after Game 7 of last year and emerged tonight to watch this game, you would be absolutely bewildered by what the hell happened to that team. It's absolute garbage at every level.
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I like Grabovski's game. Always did. But please, can someone explain to me the sense in signing him for five years at over $5.5 mil per??? Am I missing something?
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Boy, I'm having trouble watching these games. With nothing on the line, it feels like preseason...who gives a sh*t? Blech. And by and large the players seem to feel the same way.
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The Flames actually seem to be in much worse shape than us - I'm no expert on their organization but they don't seem to have young studs equivalent to Price, Subban and MaxPac anywhere. Don't know what they've got in the system, though.
Glad to hear that Cammy continues to get injured at the drop of a dime.
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Just to stir the pot, I notice that one of the first things Calgary did upon acquiring Cammalleri was to move him to C, where he has begun to find his game.
Can someone please explain why this was never even attempted in Montreal???
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Price has already been a huge help to the team. He was dominant last season from pole to pole, straight through to Game 7 OT, and should have been a Vezina finalist. When people point to Price's 'greatness' it's that performance they really have in mind. This season, he's been less dominant; but apart from a dodgy first month where he seemed to let in questionable goals at terrible times, he has provided pretty much all you could reasonably ask for in this disaster of a year. I do think he's more of a Marty Brodeur or Ken Dryden type, who will provide exemplary goaltending on a tight defensive team, than a Curtis Joseph type, who seems to thrive when getting a ton of shots in front of an erratic D.
Some people will never be happy about goalies. I'm old enough to remember when Patrick Roy came up in 1986. Even though he had proven!!! he could win a Cup, from 1987-92 he went through periods of growth pains and struggles, and even though he was universally regarded outside of Montreal as an elite goalie, a huge chunk of the Montreal fan-base were skeptical of him and quite a few even wanted him shipped out, convinced that the 86 run was just a fluke. ALL my anglophone friends in that period took that attitude. I was the lone voice in my circle saying that, whatever his struggles in a given moment, this guy was part of the solution, not a problem.
Carey Price is a player that 99% of NHL teams would love to have and I look forward to him being the foundation of our success for the next decade. You've got an excellent young goalie here who has shown, under brutal circumstanceds, that he has the right psychological make-up to thrive in Montreal. Enjoy it instead of wringing your hands about it.
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It all depends on who we bag in the off-season. If we somehow go out an acquire a stud winger, then leave DD where he is and take your chances with his defensive limitations. If we manage to finally land that elusive power C, then he can slot in with DD on his wing. Either scenario would be a gigantic upgrade over what we have now and really just fine with me
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Don't forget that our last two 1st rounders have been defensemen. Tinordi, who fits the bill of a top 4 physical guy with (massive) size will play in Hamilton next year and could be on the Habs if he adjusts to pro hockey well. I'm not sure where Beaulieu is playing next year but when he eventually does join the Habs, there is no reason not to believe he will be a good top four 2-way defender. He looked real, real good in training camp, for those who remember. Along with Subban, Gorges and Emelin, all of whom I expect will be with us long term, our defense is looking pretty darn good, even after the departure of Markov. If teams aren't afraid to play against our defense now, wait until they are staring down 12'10 feet and 430 lbs worth of defensemen in a Tinordi and Emelin shut-down pair.
As for the forward situation, don't forget Gallagher who looked real impressive in camp. I could honestly see him starting next year with the Habs. Maybe begin on the 3rd line but will be the first to move into the top 6 if circumstances allow.
Top 3 pick with a slew of young talent in the system? I'm more excited to be a Habs fan than I have been in a while...
Getting a possible franchise player in this years draft to push us over the top will cause people years from now to look back and say "man, remember 2012? Thank God we tanked so badly."
The issue to me is less what we've got in the system than what will tide us over for the next 2-3 years. None of the defencemen currently in the system are going to be big minutes-eaters within the next two years. Gallagher maybe has an outside chance of making an impact within that span. Youth takes a while to develop at the NHL level. The longer-term future looks great (but then again we've been saying that for the last decade; people always tend to overrate prospects, the birds in the bush always seeming better than the one in the hand); we need help in the medium term, however.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I meant to add: a lot of the mental energy invested in arguing over which *position* our top pick should be strikes me as a bit much. If we bag a top-3 pick, whoever we pick will almost certainly be an absolute horse and possibly a franchise player. I don't care what positions he plays (as long as it's not goal!). We really can't go wrong. If we end up with a surplus of talent at (say) D, well, we can always trade for help elsewhere.
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Commandant's analysis of DD's deficiencies defensively in another thread was excellent. But in terms of being an offensive catalyst, I'm inclined to think the evidence is pretty persuasively in Desharnais's favour, and I think it's a disservice to him to say he's a 'product' of his wingers for just the reasons mineral states. I'll go out on a limb and say he is a legitimate #2 C in the NHL, notwithstanding his defensive limitations. In effect he replaces what Grabovski should have been to this team if we hadn't stupidly thrown him away (along with Ribeiro, Lapierre, and Sergei Kostitsyn).
As I've said elsewhere, despite conventional wisdom there's a case to be made that a stud winger might add more value to this team than a stud centreman. Right now, we have MaxPac and Cole on the wing and that's it; Gionta will be a useful addition but he's not getting any younger and his injuries are a bit worrisome. Give Pleks an elite winger and suddenly the situation at C looks, not great, but serviceable. Bring an elite C in here and that's still not gonna make Bourque, Geoffrion, Leblanc, or whoever else legitimate top-line wingers. In short, it's at W where we really need big-time help, with nothing on the big club and nothing close to being ready in the system.
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Positive ? About what. We've turned from the #1 organization in the league to an irrelevant laughingstock over the last 10-15 yrs.
Not THE problem,but one of many. Though at the bottom of our problems. You don't think it's a problem that we can't get an adequate back-up because he can't handle it. Biron or Garon should be the backup.
Who says he can't handle it?
I have no problem with getting a quality back-up, but I suspect management's thinking is: we've got a horse who can play 65 games per year, why bother getting some guy who wants to play 35 behind him? Also, do guys like Garon want to sign here in the knowledge they'll get 15 games per season?
Anyway, Price may not be Superman but he is in NO WAY the problem, or a problem. Fans who think he is are simply delusional - so hysterical over this disaster of a season they are unable to sift the good from the bad. It's like bitching about Subban. Makes no sense.
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I so agree on the price angle. if we still had halak if would have done us wonders. look at st.louis or the teddy bears and the rags, canucks it doesn't matter who they throw in they have a chance of winning
Yeah, Price is definitely the problem
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It wasn't wrong to trade Cammy, but we didn't get good value for him. We also might have been able to make a much bigger trade later with him included.
Bourque looks to be the next "should be better, frustrating to watch, when will he break out" player. In that sense, he replaces AK.
But that's what everybody said when we acquired him. Big guy, not a bad scorer when interested, not interested very often. I agreed with habs29 at the time that we should have tried to package Cammy as part of a bigger deal. That being said, the extra cap room is nice.
This team needs an elite winger. Maybe even more than it needs an elite C, frankly. This summer will tell the tale.
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I miss happy Lappy... Some people here think he was embarrasing but I liked the guy and his way of getting under oponents skin.
Yep, Lapierre was a player we should not have lost. Not always consistent, but on a pretty regular basis he was/is one of the very best 4th-lin C/agitators in all of hockey. His haters worked themselves into some sort of moral high dudgeon at his agitating ways - as if hockey is some sort of genteel exercise in medieval chivalry. The fact is that guys like that can help your team win. I guarantee you the Boston Bruins would not have dumped him in the way we did. That he is rated a significant addition to the league-leading Vancouver Canucks is further testament to the fact that he was a squandered asset.
It kinda drives me batty. Maybe if we didn't piss away players like this, we wouldn't be continually scrounging to assemble our bottom-6 season after season.
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You are correct in that the final mistake on at least two of the goals is Gorges. No doubt about that.
But the big thing with the goals is they are all set up by Minny's cycle game and sustained pressure. DD just cant contain big fwds down low, and so all year we've watched big fwds cycle endlessly until someone eventually loses their coverage like Gorges did and teams pick us apart. DD is one of the causes of the endless cycles. Needing another 2 top 4 dmen is another concern.
The best thing to compare it to is football. The longer the QB can wait in the pocket to make the throw with no pressure eventually one of his receivers will get open.
Same thing with the Habs right now, DD helping down low doesnt knock his man off the puck. Weber, Campoli, Kaberle cant knock guys off the puck and big fwds just cycle until someone eventually gets free in front of the net.
Tons of teams are killing us this way, but the most glaring example all year was the game against St. Louis post all star break.
DD on the wing doesnt hurt as much because he's no longer charged with containing a fwd and knocking him off the puck. His job becomes intercepting the pass to the point.
Now again DD isnt the full solution here, we also need to ditch Campoli and Weber and add Markov (who is great at pokechecks to strip the cycling fwd of the puck) and a physical D who can put someone into the boards or onto their ass. Then you'll have 5d who are good at shutting this down and you can use Kaberle properly.
Markov - Gorges/ufa
Gorges/ufa - Subban
kaberle - Emelin
Diaz
Excellent analysis, Commandant
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Oh, no real worries. Like I said. (I guess everything one does in life is personal, it just depends on how you take it). I was just curious to hear what people thought on the matter as it's the way I'm seeing the season since Dec in retrospect. If people disagree, which is what I am most curious about, I was looking for a reasoned rebutal. That's all
My 'reasoned rebuttal' is this.
I think GMs want above all to keep their jobs, and just behind that, to win. And I think owners want to make the playoffs for obvious financial reasons, and are likely to be inclined to fire GMs who take teams from Game 7 OT against the Cup champs to 2nd last overall. Therefore, Gauthier would not have deliberately made decisions intended to drive the team out of the playoffs, because he wants to win and to keep his job; and Molson would not have acquiesced in any such plan, because he wants playoff revenues.
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Just wondering. No one responded with a word to my theory posted above. I thought it was a bit provocative and had looked forward to some discussion. So, I am wondering if,
- My writing is convoluted and opaque? Or too long a post to bother reading?
- What I said is so obvious that everyone wanted to spare my feelings by not saying so?
- Folks just disagree so strongly, or find it uninteresting enough, that they'd rather ignore it than bother formulating a reasoned reply?
- The same theory has been suggested in another thread and I missed the discussion?
- I am not a regular enough poster here to be part of the conversation? (I see this happening on other Habs websites, but have not thought it a problem here)
No worries if it's none of the above or whatever it is. Just hoping for some discussion on the proposal, if it's warranted.
Well, patience, don't take these things personally. We've all launched posts that we thought were provocative or interesting or well-thought out, only to find them ignored.
As for your idea that Gauthier consciously tanked in order to get a high pick, I find it completely implausible.
- My writing is convoluted and opaque? Or too long a post to bother reading?
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I was all for the big center campaign but man, has Desharnais ever come out. He may be small but he can produce. Among centers, he is 18th in the league in scoring, topping the likes of Lecavalier (so glad we didn't trade for him now), Krejci, Kesler, Getzlaf and B. Richards just to name a few. Would rolling with Pleks and DD as top 2 be so bad really? Don't forget that Leblanc is still projected to be a top 6 center as well.
Holy crap, I didn't realize that.It kinda reinforces my long post above. We may not in fact need that saviour C everyone is pining for. All we need is for Pleks to play like he can and DD not to regress, provided we get high-quality solutions on the wing and on D.
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Top needs in order of importance, and assessment of how we might address them:
1. No. 1 defenceman. If Markov returns and stays healthy and is the Markov we remember - three huge 'ifs' - this need can be addressed from within. I am a huge believer in building from the blueline, so it wouldn't trouble me at all if the Habs were to invest in another major defenceman apart from Markov. Were we to channel Gomez's salary to a stud UFA defenceman, for instance, I wouldn't mind one bit.
2. No.1 C. This has been endlessly discussed. Less often noticed is that IF Pleks can return to form, he and Desharnais would constitute a plausible (albeit by no means Cup-worthy) 1-2 punch down the middle. I know everyone is fixated on the big stud C, but we can be a competitive club without one. What it will take is for DD not to regress - he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would- and for Plekanec to rediscover his A-game.
3. No. 1 winger. Unlike the other two positions, I don't see any possibilities here from within. On D, we at least have the hope of Markov coming back and meeting the need. At C, there's at least the hope of a bounce-back from Pleks, or, less probable, even the emergence of Eller. But notice one thing. If we DO go out and somehow acquire a top-tier winger, it will probably contribute hugely to Plekanec regaining his form. A stud winger would thus have the side-effect of helping us at C.
I agree that we have other needs beyond these, but were all three holes to be filled we would probably become contenders. Certainly a strong stay-at-home D-man would help. Not sure we need to think in terms of a big name here. Somebody who could reliably go out and eat minutes while providing a steadying influence - i.e., a Hamrlik-type - is what's needed. The point is that were we to fill the #1 D-man slot (whether with Markov or someone else) the currently glaring holes on our blueline would suddenly look much smaller.
Anyway, one implication of this analysis is that we could get away with only one of either 2 or 3. If we get an all-star winger, that will probably be a huge help to Pleks, which would give us two serviceable offensive C and two good scoring lines. Conversely, if we get an all-star C, we can probably make-do with patchwork on the wing and still be quite competitive. The current defensive configuration is, however, unacceptable; if it's not fixed, we will not be a serious team regardless of what we do at forward.
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The ideal scenario is to have guys like Lucic who can punish and intimidate while playing lots of minutes.
Having a goon is clearly a distant second-best option. Yet there does seem to be a certain psychological value even to goons, in that we really do hear players (most recently White) saying that they feel more confident, more protected, with those guys in their lineup. Intimidation is a bona-fide factor in this sport. I don't know if the goon will intimidate the opposition but he might help our guys feels less intimidated. If having a goon helps our guys to play a bit bigger in their boots, then that brings value.
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Last time they tried something big they ended up with Gomez.
The significance of this point eludes me.
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Why is this post in the 'NHL talk' section?
Anyway, we actually have an excellent array of talent as far as supporting cast goes. What we're missing are key, 'core' players: first-line C, #1 D-man and a top-3 winger. We may be able to address the second need via the return of Markov, although I think this is likely wishful thinking at this point. One of the other two may be acquired in the draft this season, but even though a top-3 pick can probably step in right away, we'll need to allow 2-3 years before they can truly assume those roles. This leaves a need for at least one major offseason acquisition.
The whole 'Euro' argument is ridiculous and I'm not gonna comment beyond that.
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I'd do it in a heartbeat
I'm guessing the Habs will try something really big this summer. They need to, both from a hockey and a business perspective. Look for them to develop an exit strategy for Gomer Pyle and open the vault for whoever the top UFA is. Like I said in another thread, we need a #1 C, a #1 D, and a top-line winger. These needs can probably only be addressed via a massive trade or a massive UFA signing.
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Top choice for GM: Nill by a country mile.
Failing that, I have no overpoweringly strong opinion, except to say that McGuire as GM is absolute anathema in my book. Names like Roy and even Damphousse have been thrown around. I'd live with either. Indeed, I've kinda warmed to the Patrick Roy-as-GM idea. Risky, yes, but strictly from a fan perspective there's something satisfying about the thought of the last great Saviour coming home and taking the reins; it feels almost like destiny, a potentially classic chapter in the long history of the Habs.
I also think that Carbo has a resumé that suggests he might be a plausible candidate. Nobody ever seems to mention him.
I suspect, though, that it'll end up being someone like Brisebois or Loiselle.Such names seem better to fit the organization's pattern of going after impeccable 'professional' suits with good, firm resumés and no special flair or drama. Of course, this was the pattern when Pierre Boivin was running the show; Molson is a fanboy who may opt for the more erratic, populist choices (ex-players, Big Names, etc.). And such choices aren't necessarily bad. Serge Savard was an inspired choice by that idiot Corey, all those years ago. In any case, the choice of GM will tell us much about our new owner.
The new GM will have a lot on his plate. Although there is a nucleus here, this team has a disturbing dearth of talent at key positions. We need a #1C, a #1 defenceman (unless Markov comes back strong) and, now that Cammy is gone, a top-line winger. Bagging even one of those will be challenging. It also suggests that we needn't worry too much about what position our top pick this season plays. We'll have a spot for him no matter what.
As for coach? Meh. Hopefully Boucher is canned and we can scoop him up. Since Vancouver will NOT be eliminated early, we can forget about Vigneault. I could live with Crawford; he did good work in Dallas despite being fired. Since coaches are ultimately disposable it's the GM thing that really interests me. That's the choice that will settle whether we're condemned to yet another decade of mediocrity.
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Habs vs Flames, March 6, 9 PM EST
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
12 + 7 may turn out to be a bit low, if only because I'd like to think the team as a whole will be more productive next season; but in principle I think you're spot on. He may turn out to be a decent, tolerably physical 3rd liner, perhaprs.
That's the thing, this team needs a new top-line winger. A guy like Kostitsyn or Bourque is never gonna be part of the core and anyone asking them to be is going to spend years banging their head against the wall. Put Bourque in the background, behind two strong lines, and he may prove to be a perfectly solid contributor. More than that? No way.