The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Posts posted by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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16 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:
Patterson is a guy that can take over a game. I’d say his a notch below McDavid and McKinnon. It say Suzuki is two below Pattersson. Nothing wrong with that though - Suzuk is the best centre we’ve had since Koivu. If Dach can be the 1a or 1b with Suzuki we should be good at centre with Beck hopefully as a solid #3. That’s the best we’ve been at the position since the unholy trio of Corey-Tremblay-Houle turned us into the geiggon Harrold Ballard leafs.
I don’t know what “geiggon” means, but I agree with that ranking (McDavid > Pettersson > Suzuki) and that overall assessment.
Hard to believe that we once had Koivu, Turgeon, and Damphousse down the middle and managed to trade away the latter two on discounts, without having adequate replacements in mind. Good ol’ Reggie 🙄
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11 hours ago, Commandant said:
Pettersson seems next level though
I think Montreal fans have sort of forgotten what a truly elite-level offensive talent looks like. I saw the same sort of thing in Vancouver regarding Quinn Hughes…the fans here have never seen a truly elite defenceman before, and quite a few of them failed to appreciate exactly what they had in Hughes for quite a while. By contrast, the minute I saw him, I knew he was the real deal…but then again I’ve seen Markov, Subban, and Weber on the regular.
Pettersson is an elite, top-end offensive talent.
Suzuki clearly isn’t that yet, at least not yet. He may become arguably a better “overall” player in the sense of combining very good offensive chops with elite two-way acumen (although I really think this board is downplaying Pettersson’s defensive game). But I doubt he is ever going to be in the conversation with Pettersson when it comes to being an offensive dynamo.
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32 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:
More points than Petersson is a little optimistic BUT if Nick can score 75-80 pts/year and we know he plays both ends of the ice then his contract of 7.8M/year is excellent value.
The contract is fair value for an elite, franchise #1C.
I’m happy for Vancouver, really. This is one traumatized fan base (although also a fairly stupid one, on the whole) and, while I’ve ranted and raved against them over the years, I sort of feel they’ve suffered enough. And as a hockey fan, I love the troika of Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko - splendid players, each of them.
As for Suzuki, he is not going to outscore Pettersson, who is a true, star offensive talent of the sort the Habs have not had since Guy Lafleur. (Not that he is as good as Lafleur!). But yes, with his rise to PPG production and elite two-way acumen, Suzuki will be the franchise cornerstone for the next 6-7 years and a defining player of the rebuild. Hopefully the Habs can do for him what they never did for Koivu, i.e, put him in a legitimate position to win the Stanley Cup.
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7 hours ago, dlbalr said:
So this is one of those 'entirely out of context' reports. Here's what LeBrun actually said (emphasis mine):
It's not a 1st, a young player, and multiple picks, the reported asking price is one of the three. Basically, the anticipated value is that of a first-round pick, not a smorgasbord of valuable picks and a young player.
Even so, I don’t think they’re getting that for Savard. Adjust all those scenarios downward to a 2nd-rounder and I think it’s more plausible.
Savard’s stock seems to be lower than it should be, given how much GMs like blood-and-guts veterans for the playoffs. I wonder if that’s because the Habs have priced him out of the market.
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TBH I kind of respect the Leafs' determination to break through with this core. I mean, they DO have a frigging powerhouse crop of FWs and they do finish consistently top-5 to top-10. No doubt they see themselves very much like Yzerman's Wings were before they finally won: a strong team that kept falling short in the playoffs but eventually got there. The longer this goes on, though, the likelier it becomes that they are the 2020s version of Joe Thornton's San Jose Sharks, i.e., an elite team that never makes it.
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20 minutes ago, Commandant said:
Assuming Pettersson would sign in Montreal you trade caufield and guhle and run away laughing.
Agree, although I'd try to barter them down to Wifi, LOL.
More likely they insist on Suzuki plus.
I don't quite get this turn in the thread, though. Yes, Friedman (an impeccable source) has reported that the Canes but a VERY serious offer on the table for Petterson. But the Canucks leveraged the threat of accepting that offer to force Pettersson back o negotiations. That means, in effect, that Pettersson has conceded that he wants to stay in Vancouver, and accepts that he will need to negotiate during the season, which he was loath to do. The general media chatter here in Van is that it is now a question of WHEN, not if, Petey signs - and for how much term. (12 million per seems to be the agreed-upon number).
All told, then, it is much less likely that we can prise him away from Vancouver than it was three or four days ago.
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Just to be clear, I'm not saying I've given up on CC becoming a heavy-duty elite scorer. I agree that his game has become more complete. Yes, the surgery was a factor. And heck, he is on pace for 30 goals pro-rated, so it's not like his season has been bad.
I've just never seen him as topping out as an "elite 2nd-line W." I want him to become an elite 1st-line goal-scorer who scares the sh*t out of other teams. I'm not talking Auston Matthews, but definitely a reliable 40+ goal guy. Those are lofty expectations, but CC has it in him IMHO.
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Bit early for post-mortems, but off the top of my head I’d say
POSITIVES
-Suze emerging as a legitimately elite 2-way C
-Slaf’s growth into a serious top-6 FW, with more to come
-Monty solidifying his standing as a legit #1 G
-Guhle solidifying his game
-Huge pro season by Mailloux in the minors
-Great season by Monahan, followed by solid trade return
NEGATIVES
-Caufield not being elite
-Ridiculous injury to Dach, plus the resulting doubts re: his durability
-Massive Newhook injury
-Regression by Kovacevic
-Vets struggling, especially JA and maybe Allen
The top two positives and negatives all concern the young core. Frustrating that we can’t bump more of those into the “positive” column.
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17 hours ago, Dalhabs said:
Hope they hire Bergevin.
What do you have against poor Columbus??
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1 hour ago, Commandant said:
Suzuki might just get to PPG.
Was Kovalev the last one to do that?
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3 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:
That is a good point, he was a 2nd round pick and still only 20. The Flames seem high on him and most here don't know much about him. So basically the Flames got 2 x 2nd round picks and a 3rd for Tanev and retaining salary for the rest of this year. Not a bad haul.
I think our reaction to this trade hinges on our view of Tanev. I don't really see him as an impactful top-4 guy at this stage - I could be wrong, of course - so the return seems solid to me.
Sorry to talk about Van so much, but I was very interested to note that, amidst much speculation of who the Canucks might go after now that Tanev is off the board, I haven't heard Savard's name come up once - even though he seems like a perfect fit for them 🤷♂️
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4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:
I seriously doubt Hughes would be "shopping" Matheson, but I could see teams calling about him ... he would be a "three-run rental" as he is signed through 25/26 ... but teams like - FOR EXAMPLE - the Leafs (only two D signed for next season), Vegas (36 yr-old Alec Martinez on an expiring, higher AAV, contract) or VAN (with pending UFAs like Zadorov and Cole) might well be interested in a "hockey trade" and try to figure out how to make the cap work this season ... but I expect they would have to overwhelm Hughes with an offer.
Oops, I thought he was up next year. My bad.
He will certainly be traded before his contract is up; it's a question of when. If we wait until he's 32 he might have begun his decline, so maybe next year will indeed be a good target? Or, we just see him as a guy who plays out the string with us - allowing Hutson a luxurious, low-pressure entry into the NHL - to be moved as a rental in two years, even if that means not maximizing return.
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3 hours ago, DON said:
Boy, trading Matheson would be a ballsy move, given what he means to our D. Despite all the points from the back end this season, none of our young guys plays that kind of puck-controlling, offence-generating game. Moving him out would likely transform us from a bad team into the worst team in hockey right now.
On the other hand, he’s 30, and although his game feels to me like it will age well, he’s hard to imagine as part of the long-term plan.
I have a higher opinion of him than some, and think that if the Habs really were shopping him around, he would be subject of pretty hot rumours. So my guess is the Habs will wait until next season, then move him as a rental. Whether that’s the way to maximize return on a player who should bring back a solid haul, I don’t know.
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24 minutes ago, Commandant said:
Stars acquire Tanev. Wonder if this starts trade dominos for D.
I know Calgary wanted a first, but that still seems like a big haul for Tanev. Good work by Conroy.
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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:
ah! the often dismissed but sometimes sooo telling of a teams performance ! the "+/-"
Say what you want about +/-, but I always believed it was a relevant statistic when it comes to egregious outliers. E.g., if I'm -25 and everyone else on my team is a +, that is probably telling us something meaningful about my suckage.
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10 minutes ago, Commandant said:
Its also not necessarily the final deal.
Trade for mikeyhev who has one fewer year on his contract.
Let him play a bit. If he fits in this lineup, great. If he doesnt, look to move him for a guy with one fewer year on his deal.
The Mikheyev idea is a good one, actually. It's quite possible that Tocchet looks at Andy and sees "a Rick Tocchet player."
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3 minutes ago, Neech said:
Nightmare scenario in Vancouver as it sounds like Pettersson wants out like Tkachuk did from Calgary.
One of HuGort's toughest tasks is to offset all the extra baggage of playing in a Canadian market and to make stars want to stay.
Is there any evidence he wants out, though? All we've really heard is
1. He wants to be on a winning team
2. He doesn't want to talk contract until the season is over.
Insiders have reported that he doesn't like all the speculation and chatter about his contract, suggestive of a guy who isn't crazy about an amped-up media environment; but it doesn't follow that that will be the deciding factor.
If I were a Canucks fan, I'd be concerned...but not panicking just yet.
(One thing that probably doesn't help is the shockingly high proportion of fans who declare that "you can never win" with Petterson, that he's not a complete player, that he's not worth a massive contract, etc. We should remember that this is the same city whose "fans" whined non-stop about "the Sedin sisters" all the way up to 2011 🙄).
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I think everyone agrees we need to add a significant FW. I believe management wants to do so as well, and we certainly have assets to bargain with, so I think there's a realistic possibility that it happens.
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On this Anderson to Van idea…Rutherford and Alvin just spent three years extricating themselves from the mess of Jim Benning’s atrocious contract management. I really don’t think they’ll jump right back in the sh*theap first chance they get. Now, if the Habs retain substantial salary, such that they get him at a decent cap hit, then maybe.
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It’s probably good that there’s a bit of push-back, because I think most of us agree that next season the team needs to start flipping the switch from “development” to “winning some hockey games.” The media is, in effect, gently warning them that a shift in fan patience is imminent.
As for this season, I really believe that MSL is overwhelmingly focused on how the kids are doing and doesn’t lose too much sleep over the veterans. When he says “this is our best stretch,” he probably means that the kids are playing the way he wants them to and demonstrating the learning he wants to see. And that’s fine - for now.
I can’t really blame the vets for checking out, either - assuming them to have done so. They know the Habs are sellers, so on a human level, it’s got to be tough not knowing what your fate is.
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YUP. Petterson will command a return as high as any player in recent memory. And rightly so.
That guy is a frigging 100-point, 40-goal franchise #1C. And he’s 25.
If I’m the Canucks, I absolutely demand a king’s ransom. Without him, they are looking at another decade in the wilderness. It either has to be the kind of return where you look at the receiving team and go, “whoa - they will be a powerhouse in 2-3 years” OR where they get something like Suzuki PLUS, such that they can reasonably claim to be at least as good as they were with Petey.
Anyway: if Petterson actually wants out, it can no longer be for the reason we used to hear about - i.e., that he doubted whether management could build a winner. So it has to be the other reason I’ve heard reported: he hates the over-heated media/fan environment of Vancouver. If that’s the case, then there is no way on God’s green earth he signs in Montreal.
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The thing with Xhekaj is - even if we rate him as high as a potential 2nd pairing guy, he will be no ordinary 2nd pairing guy. He brings attributes that are both rare and exceptionally valuable: (a) a ridiculously cannonading 107-MPH shot and (b) off-the-chart physical prowess. The latter, especially, is really hard to find. His specific exceptional qualities will make him significantly harder to replace than a “normal” 2nd pairing guy.
All of which is to say, the Habs would be within reason to be asking a LOT to give up WiFi. (Whether this is actually the case, I have no idea).
There’s maybe a slight analogy with a guy like Lucic, forgetting for a moment about that jackass’s other issues. Offensively, in his heyday Lucic produced like a 50-60 point guy - good but not great - but I don’t think anyone doubted that he was worth waaay more than a standard guy with that profile, because he was a gorilla on skates. I’m not saying WiFi is a player of that level of impact…just that his value may be skewed upward because of his exceptionally rare skill-set.
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Hahahaha, I dunno...I'm starting to warm to "SUCKING FOR CELEBRINI'
But I should take the W and run
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10 minutes ago, Commandant said:
Play like a weenie for Celebrini
Is the best i got.
WINNER??🏆
“Lackin’ for Macklin?”
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2023-24 NHL discussion thread
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
I'm not 100% sure it's valid to point to Slick Nick's linemates. He's played a lot with CC and a lot with Slaf. Those are quality linemates. Besides, has Pettersson benefitted from stupendous linemates every single night? His linemates over the last two, 100-point seasons have included names such as Hoglaander, Conor Garland, and Ilya Podkolzin (now in the minors). Not to slag Suzuki, just to say that I don't think this excuse holds too much water.