REV-G
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Posts posted by REV-G
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I rarely read him anymore because I realized that very little of what he says happens, but for interest sake while we're waiting for something significant to happen....Eklund says that Shea Weber's name is being talked about and there are a number of teams interested.
If Bergevin has his eyes and ears open he knows his dream job is on the line...as well as his buddies, so would he trade Weber??
For interest sake, if he did, what sort of return could we expect...with his contract?
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I can see that you put a lot of thought and work into this article. Very well done.
I agree with most of what you said. It's probably nitpicking over words used, but I think the centre we must get back has to be not just a top 6, for me that infers a 2nd line centre would be acceptable. For Max P. the return has to include a first line centre or someone who has the definite potential, with experience, to get there. Maybe that's what you meant by top 6, giving the person a little time to evolve into a first liner.
My other question would be, is it better to leave some of the young guys like Nikita S. and Noah J. on the farm playing lots of minutes instead of bringing them into what has to now be a very demoralizing, losing atmosphere, or would it be worthwhile to give them NHL experience understanding that any mistakes they make are not going to affect the final outcome very much anyway. However, Laval isn't overachieving either, so maybe bringing them up would be beneficial.
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On the opening page of HW Francois Gagnon wrote a very good article for RDS, Le Canadien a besoin d’un président – rds.ca, and he calls for Geoff Molson to step aside and put in a solid hockey man as President, and especially before any decision is made regarding our GM.
I think he makes many great points and he ends with saying that this move is urgent....it needs to happen right now.
Use google translate because it's in french, but it's a very good article.
I'm very encouraged to read that a very well respected Montreal journalist, who knows hockey very well, would be brave enough to come out with an article calling for this much needed change.
Hats off to you Francois!
When it comes to understanding what our team needs right now there is no language barrier. We are all on the same page!!
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I get so frustrated for a number of reasons when I read a report/article chronicling the moves MB has made. Commandment your article is titled well. Marc Bergevin's Mess!!
It's frustrating to see what he has managed to do to our team over the past 5 years!
It's frustrating to see the results.....the on-ice product which sits near the bottom of the league in most categories which means the vast majority of the other GM's have been doing a much better job than our GM.
It's frustrating to know that some of our players seem to have given up because they know they have pretty much zero chance of making the playoffs and morale and team spirit has to be pretty low.
It's frustrating, in hindsight I admit that neither I nor probably most us anticipated this, that Geoff Molson and Serge Savard brought in an unproven GM, who had never run a team at any level before, to be the man in charge of what was the league's most storied franchise. Why didn't we see that coming?
It's frustrating when you look at what the management of the Montreal Canadiens have done and the people they have put in place over the past 23 years. Over the past 23 years the GM's running our "most storied franchise" have been Rejean Houle, Andre Savard, Bob Gainey, Pierre Gauthier and now Marc Bergevin. Not one of those people have turned out to be very good or outstanding GM's, or today have a reputation or legacy that they were one of the best in the league. Why haven't we had leadership that went out and got the best person in hockey to run our team. Where is the "Sam Pollock" we desperately need?
It's frustrating when you look at the list of our non-hockey presidents who have run our team since 1978, now 30 years running. Morgan McCammon, Ronald Correy, Pierre Boivin, Geoff Molson. Not one solid hockey man who today is remembered as a great leader or builder.
It's frustrating that Geoff Molson has sat back and let this continue, missing the playoffs two years out of three. If this was in the private corporate world, with those results and decline, Geoff Molson would have made a change already and his own position would be in jeopardy. Is there any group or board who can pressure him to do something?
So what can we do? What needs to happen to get Molson to put an end to this and let someone immensely more qualified to take over and begin putting in place a solid plan for the future to give the team and it's fans "a hope and a future"?
Who's the best qualified to clean up "The Mess" and when will they be put in place??
At present, for all fans, it's very frustrating!
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19 hours ago, Commandant said:
Dubois is not happening.. He is contributing NOW in Columbus, and is nearly PPG over his last 25 games. Forget him. It is/was a pipe dream.
For Max
Excellent Centr prospect... think Anaheim's Sam Steel, or St. Louis' Robert Thomas, or something of that nature.
A puck moving defence prospect (preferably left handed).
A 1st rounder or 2nd rounder (depending on the quality of the defence prospect... you get a Robert Thomas + Vince Dunn package, you take a 2nd rounder; you get a lesser D, you ask for a first).
Also I might look at the fact I have three 2nd rounders already and I might want a 2019 pick. The other advantage of a 2019 pick is what if some team has a disaster season out of nowhere next year. Like the Blackhawks, (or even our team) going from a 100+ point team to sucking. It might be worth it to have someone's 2019 first and hopefully be in that lottery. Jack Hughes looks as good as Auston Matthews on that USNTDP team.
It seems that looking down the road at potential players like Hughes coming up in the draft and then going out getting someone else's first round pick a year or two ahead of time was how a very shrewd Sam Pollock ended up picking none other than Guy Lafleur and we all know how that turned out!
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This may have been brought up and discussed before, if it was I missed it.
If we trade Max P. what would we expect to get back from him?
In listening to some reports of what other GM's said is that they thought Sakic received way too much for Duschene and very few would have been willing to pay that much. The sense I got was that they were saying that those kind of returns probably would not be repeated. I think Colorado received 7 pieces??
In hindsight, based on a small sample size on the results Duschene has put up, I think they're right. But it's still early and Ottawa is having a terrible year, so maybe it's too early to really know.
So based on that, I would expect that we would get a top rated prospect, who must be a potential #1 centre, a first round pick and a #2 or #3 defence man for Max??
Or a #1 center [would we get a Pierre Luc Dubois?], a first round pick and a 2nd or 3d defenceman.
Is this reasonable, can we expect something like this for Max?
What do you think?
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Lol. Well you take what you're offered, right! My point in quoting him was simply to say that a former NHL coach and GM and long term hockey man, who is on both radio and national television, expressed his opinion that our team is poorly constructed and obviously the results are showing just that.
There were a few others I heard say just that but I can't remember exactly who said it. McLean was the only name I could remember.
I'll try to quote a better source next time
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I wonder how much more evidence Molson needs?
No 1st or 2nd centre's.
One first pairing defenceman, maybe one 2nd pairing and the rest fourth and fifth.
Forwards.....some playing out of position.....most underachieving.
Near the bottom of the league in standings and in the bottom 3 or 4 in most other categories.
They seem uninspired and unmotivated many nights.
I have personally heard a number of insiders [Doug Mclean] and others say that this is a poorly constructed team.
We need change....hope....a good plan.
What will it take??
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36 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
First of all, in positing a Patches for Nuge deal in other threads, I've noted that EDM would have to add a quality prospect or some other inducement.
Second, Nuge is just an example. The point is that the Habs should be looking to move Patches for a top-C (or failing that, I guess, a top-3 W) ho is significantly younger - at least if they can't sign Tavares. And adding another quality young FW is not a lateral move, because it retools the core for years to come.
If we can't get a top -C for Patches then we should add to so it gets done. For me, if we trade Max it has to be to address our #1 need, a #1 centre. Add to it, do whatever is necessary but don't settle for a winger, if we move Max we must get back a #1 Center.
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13 hours ago, Commandant said:
Pacioretty to
Anaheim.... Steel, Mahura, 2nd
St. Louis.... Kyrou, Walman, 2nd
Nashville.... Fabbro, Petterson, 1st
I'd do any of those.
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18 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:
I agree that that's certainly a more reasonable reason to question Bergevin's tenure. I also feel as though he has lacked a clear plan many times during his tenure.
With th that being said, I'm not as convinced that we don't have players who could bring back value to our team. Players like Lehkonen and Hudon have value to us, as well as other teams. I personally think Lehkonen is overvalued and if he were part of the price to pay for a strong center, it wouldn't kill us.
This is just one example. I don't particularly want to trade Lehkonen, and even less so Hudon, but our cupboard isn't as bare as some would say.
Trading Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Drouin wouldn't be what I would personally do, but packaging some of Byron, Lehkonen, Danault, Shaw, Scherbak, Hudon, etc. could get us a return during a normal season.
The only issue is that we don't tend to package these players in deals for good returns (Desharnais for Davidson). Instead we ship them out in one for one deals. The other issue is that this season, mostly all wouldn't think we should not be buyers at this point and as a result would probably have the opposite vision as t what we should do. I.e. Trading Pacioretty.
I think you have made some very good points here.
16 hours ago, Commandant said:This team's prospect cupboard is a lot better than you give it credit for.
Blue Chips
Poehling is having a fantastic season for an 18 year old in the NCAA.
Josh Brook looks amazing in Moose Jaw right now.Mete is far better than you are giving him credit for.
A level
Scherbak has found his game in Laval.
Noah Juulsen looks like a top 4 D.
Lindgren, McNiven, Hawkey, and Primeau all look good as goalies, but goalies are voodoo, and who knows, but with 4 good ones, one is bound to turn out.
B Level
Will Bitten has 27 points in his last 17 games.
Cale Fleury, Jared Tsyzka, are both having strong seasons. Both could use defensive work.Jake Evans looks great as a senior in the NCAA
Third Level
Ikonen is playing against men and struggling a bit.
Vejdemo is having his best season yet in Sweden.
Lernout is a bit of a question mark, but earned a call-up.
I'd like to see more from Scott Walford but he's still been decent. Better defensively than offensively.Longshots
Gregoire and Audette have had flashes, but are probably not going to be NHLers.A really nice draft, along with big development years from Mete, Bitten and Scherbak make this pool look much better than it did a year ago. Its a big improvement.
Add to that 4 picks in the top 62 in what should be a good draft this year.
Thank you! Finally some good news and hope for the future. If Commandment's reads on these developing players is even close, we're in better shape in the next 3-4 years than I thought!
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42 minutes ago, dlbalr said:
So maybe this is the new and best way to develop our young players. Allow them to learn with the World Juniors and Olympic programs, avoid time in the AHL with SL, and then have them return to us much better prepared and developed and ready to jump in.
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There's something I'm trying to get a handle on concerning Dudley.
I always thought he was a top evaluator of talent and I've heard some hockey people say that same thing about Bergevin.
So, realistically, how do explain the mess we find ourselves in right now.
I'm saying this because of the thought of perhaps using Dudley as a temporary or permanent fill in/ replacement for MB.
My guess is that Dudley is in the inner circle and, again a guess, that he and Bergevin must spend a lot of time evaluating their team and potential players they would like to get.
So how do end up with Mark Street, Ales Hemskey, Carl Alzner, Joe Morrow and players like Charles Hudon and Lehkonen playing at times, on the first line? Why do we have so many players playing out of their position? Why have we seemed to have digressed in our talent over the past few years?
I honestly can't figure out or understand how long term hockey men, supposed experts, like Bergevin and Dudley could get us to this place.
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After another game like last night, no fight, no excitement, no skill on display, don't you get the sense that something has to happen, is going to happen??
With fans booing, leaving games early, saying how boring games are, no scoring....honestly, how much longer can Molson sit back and do nothing?
The media all seem on the same page. Terrible team, no character, bottom or near the bottom of the league in so many categories.
Have to believe that if we go another week or two like this the outcry will be so loud, I'm sure there will be more empty seats, I just don't see how you can keep going like this without doing something.
So for the first time, maybe ever, I'm hoping we continue to lose, just so that it will force some changes!
Honestly, I never thought we'd be this bad, this demoralized....I really feel bad for the players. It must be tough coming to the rink each day.
If we don't make changes I would think it will be very difficult to attract quality free agents this summer.
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8 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:
These comments are way too premature. There’s no reason we should “assume” that Bergevin will make moves to “save his job” at the deadline if the Habs are clearly out of the picture. By the time the deadline comes around, the picture will be crystal clear as to whether the organization should be buyers or sellers. Buying pieces for a playoff run won’t be helpful in any form if the Habs don’t make the playoffs and so it wouldn’t save his job anyway.
While I’ve questioned Bergevin at times myself, it becomes tiresome to see fans worrying about things that won’t actually happen. Bergevin will not trade Pacioretty for Lucic, Galchenyuk for Sam Garner and Bergevin will not be a buyer if the Habs are completely out of the picture. The most likely thing to happen, in my mind would be a player like Plekanec shipped out.
Those are surprising comments when you look at the evidence of what MB has done and where our team is right now. During his watch we have signed terrible players [Streit and Hemsky to name just two] when he should have know better. He lost players we desperately needed. He signed Carl Alzner and now we know why he was available. He traded two second round picks for Shaw. Under his watch we are currently either the worst or close to it compared to the teams I have watched for over 50 years. He has picked up some good depth players, but has done nothing to improve our top 6 forward or top 2 defence. If we kept the defencemen he has traded away or let go we would be far better on D than we are today. I personally think the players are really finding this hard. It is on Bergevin. He assembled this team.
You think these comments are premature?? We are trying to make a noice so they don't do what we're all afraid they will do and damage us even further. At this point I have zero confidence in Bergevin and unless Molson does something to prevent us from falling any further I will lose what confidence I still have in him. We have fallen from the top to just about the bottom. If you want to wait until the ship has totally sunk to say something, it will be too late. We're in big trouble right now!! We need new leadership!! Five to six years is more than an appropriate sample size. I don't need to see any more or endure any more seasons like this. I'll say it again. Molson would never run his beer company like this. People would have been fired a long time ago. It's time for change!!
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1 hour ago, DON said:
I surely hope Molson/Bergevin see the writing on the wall for this season and arnt looking to patch up roster for some kind of playoff run.
I agree totally. Let's hope that Geoff Molson doesn't bite on what Bergevin is probably offering these days in order to save his job. Something like, we'll use the money in the bak that we saved on Markov and Radulov and we'll sign [overpay] one or two rentals and we'll get into the playoffs where we all know anything can happen.
We have to hope that Molson doesn't agree to do what the Leafs did for so many years and either sneek into the playoffs or just miss getting in and in the process brilliantly moved themselves out of a desired [possibly lottery draft] position.
If this were any other business, and entering their 6th year of running the show, and seeing where we have digressed to, I have no doubt that heads would already be rolling, in a properly run business. So it's fair to ask, "Geoff, what are you waiting for? What more evidence do you need? Would you run Molson Breweries this way, with these kind of results? If other beer companies were soaring past you in sales would you put up with it?" No scoring, lousy defence, last or near the bottom of the league in many stats, almost certainly going to miss the playoffs, becoming a laughing stock in the league, terrible moves [two 2nds for Andrew Shaw], still no centre, losing the two Russians for nothing with no replacements, signing Mark Streit and Ales Hemsky....do we not have any scouts who told MB not to sign those two?? We are terrible at developing players. Bergevin has kept coaches at the NHL and AHL level where the results just aren't there.
So when Don said that he hopes Molson/Bergevin aren't trying to add a few players for a playoff run....I think we should assume that Bergevin will, so Geoff Molson has to be the one to say...Ok, enough is enough...it's time for change!
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23 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
Ok, ok, try this.
The Montreal Canadiens are a massive money-making machine irrespective of performance. As we've seen with franchises like TO and NYR, this can create a culture in which, while everyone involved would like to win, winning isn't internalized as life or death. This results in people in management playing internal political games, jockeying for influence, protecting their allies from accountability, making hockey decisions based on ego rather than excellence, etc, etc.. Over time this corrodes the entire operation.
That we have seen zero accountability in management - Therrien being protected long past the point when a serious organization would have canned him, Lefebvre remaining firmly in place despite a dismal track record - and dumb hockey moves driven seemingly by ego (Subban, Markov) - all suggest that this dynamic is a major factor in explaining the Habs' stagnation.
Unfortunately, I think you nailed it.
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I know we've talked a lot about what the problems are with our team. We have digressed from a few years ago. Instead of taking steps forward, we've slid back, at least into the middle of the pack, and by the end of this year, who knows where we'll be. Will we get it together and look like a good team like we have on our recent 5 game winning streak over the past few weeks or are our secondary players overachieving and will we end up being a team that scores sporadically. We know that most likely Carey will win us games and keep us in games but can we compete with the better teams ahead of us in the standings?? All valid questions.
One of the most concerning things has been who we've drafted and how they've turned out. We traded PK because he supposedly didn't play the right way. We're probably going to trade a 3d pick in a draft, Alex Galchenyuk, a former 30 goal scorer, because he isn't the centre we thought he was and has regressed and is now being bounced all over the lineup. I get it that maybe he isn't playing right. Is it him or our system that has turned him into who he is today. Are there personal issues going on here behind the scenes like Mike Rebeiro?? Have we not taken proper care of our players development and futures?? Is this normal? Do all teams have these issues and what are other teams doing in this area?
We drafted first rounders Nathan Beaulieu, Jared Tinordi, Louis Leblanc and they're all gone with hardly anything to show for them. We don't have any blue chip prospects, unless Noah Juulsen is considered in that category. We seem to have drafted some good players this year, but based on our track record how will they turn out.
I look at our core, and while we have some good young players like Drouin, Gallagher, Paul Byron, maybe Arturi Lehkonen, and as of the past week maybe our new fourth line [but will they be able to sustain that energy and scoring touch?]. I look at even Max P. and I'm wondering is he done in Montreal or is it just a slump. Is he going to be another John Leclair and once he lands somewhere else he'll soar because he'll have better line mates and a different culture? He looks a bit like he's going through the motions and he's lost some desire and energy.
For me our whole system right now seems frustrating. Something systemic seems broken. And it doesn't seem to be just one person. I don't know if frustration with our whole system is fair or if that really is the problem. Just a few years ago, with the players we had, incoming players were saying we had a great room. Now??
I know we've said all this before but other than Trevor Timmons I almost feel like we're descended into the former Leaf-like crisis. Do we need to change almost everything from the President right on down to our scouts and our AHL coach. Am I seeing the glass half empty or are we really in that place??
It's hard sometimes to put your finger on just one thing when there appears to be leaks in the ship all over! But in my mind I think the issue is leadership, starting at the top. I think these people are good human beings but I think our problem is primarily in the top levels of leadership. Our system seems broken. This is what I think has to change. Geoff Molson has to step aside and put in a very good hockey man as President , who then needs to replace our current GM with the best GM available, period. Then let him rebuild the front office leadership staff because based on results I'm beginning to think they're ver overrated, pst their shelf life, unfortunately like a lot of things Marc B. has done. Then remake our scouting and coaching staff so our whole system can be reorganized and we can return to being one of the best run organizations. I don't think just constantly changing players is now the answer.
What do you think? Is there a solution possible with one or two player moves or do we need to clear the decks of our top level leadership?? If we need to clear the decks, as in from the President on down and come in with a new system and new leaders, I'm personally willing and actually would look forward to it, but to keep going year to year like this, lurching forward a bit and falling back a bit with seemingly not a solid plan in place frustrates everyone.
I think this year is the time. Let's hope.
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1 hour ago, habsFan1986 said:
This team went down hill once molson took over it again. They just don't seem to be interested in what happens with the team as long as they're making money. If we want things to change i think it starts with molson selling the team.
Personally I like Molson as the owner. He just needs to replace himself as President and install a really good hockey man who has had front office experience...I hate to say it....here it comes........like the Leafs have done! Agghhhhhhh!!
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Here's two questions. First, can Molson really have faith in Bergevin at this point? What would be the evidence or proof that Molson should have faith that Bergevin can turn this around. He inherited a team with the third pick in the first round of the draft, he had Carey Price, PK, Max P, Markov and some other pieces. And now 5 years later what does he have. No first line centre, no PK, no Markov, a terrible defence and the team is worse now that it has been for some time. So why should Molson have confidence that MB can and should be given the right to fix this mess?
Second question. Why wait to make a change? I can see waiting until the new year just to be sure that this team isn't going to turn it around. But by January if we are out of the playoffs and winning at the rate we are now, why wait till April, May or June and have a new guy come in without a lot or prep time to head into the draft and the free agent frenzy. Make the change sooner than later so the new guy has more time to see what he has and get ready for the busy months of June and July.
If the right guys aren't available right now, that's understandable. But if Molson makes the decision and lets MB walk say in January, we know it's going to likely take months to get the new guy in place, so let Dudley run the ship for now and find the right guy.
Why wait for spring.....do it now [or first thing in the new year]!!
What do you think?
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1 hour ago, Commandant said:
The novel about him being a GM of an AHL team?
Again, thats a paperwork job. Its not trades. its not a lot of signings (maybe a coupld AHL only deals at the bottom of the roster)... but i'd rather have an OHL GM experience over a guy whose role is AHL GM.
I think those are very valid points. With that in mind I wonder how much more scouting Yzerman did in Detroit before coming to Tampa versus what Brisebois is doing now. Being a player and knowing many of the players and learning how good guys were by playing against them certainly would have helped Yzerman a lot and probably would have taught him a lot about how to evaluate talent ...all of which Brisebois may or may not have. We don't know....so is it a risk?
I'd like to know how some of the younger successful GM's today started out. Did any of the successful ones come in with JB's background or did they all have either a playing or scouting background?
Obviously whenever a new GM is put in place we must get it right. Personally I like what someone suggested yesterday or today, we need a new President. Toronto's first smart move was to bring in a former player who had some front office [NHL] experience and then he went out and built his team.
That's probably asking [dreaming] for way too much.
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21 hours ago, Commandant said:
There are several. Keep in mind that the GM does 6-8 pressers a year, not 100s like a coach. The GM can be an anglo, as seen by the last round of hiring including interviews with Jim Nill.
Paul Fenton
Michael Futa
Kyle DubasPat Brisson
Bill GuerinDean Lombardi
Trevor Timmins
Julien Brisebois's job description from Tampa's web site: BriseBois assists Steve Yzerman “in all aspects of player personnel decisions, analytics, player development, contract preparation and negotiation, as well as salary arbitration for the Lightning and the Syracuse Crunch of the American Hockey League, for whom he also serves as general manager. BriseBois also manages interpretation of the NHL’s collective bargaining agreement and the salary cap for Tampa Bay.”
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I agree. I know we discussed possible replacements earlier. I was more bringing up the quotes from Craig Button and Todd....others are clearly seeing and stating outright that our team is seriously flawed....and I guess the emphasis or questions being...do we really have to wait until season end to make a change?
The thought of having to go through the rest of the season without any changes for the future is a bit bleak...sports wise anyway.
But honestly, in light of life and all the issues so many people face each day, these are really insignificant, unimportant issues!
Just sports which hopefully is fun...especially if you're a Leafs fan these day! Yikes.
Permanent Rumour Thread
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
I started out saying that Eklund is not a reliable source at all, but for argument sake, while we're waiting, I personally think now is the time to trade him if we can. The older he gets the slower he'll be. I don't think the injury will affect his trade value....people know what he brings.
If we could get a really good D prospect, a 1st next year and one other good piece, personally I'd do it. Plus we free up a ton of cap space.
For me it's time to move some older guys if we could get a pretty good return.