RedSoloCup
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Posts posted by RedSoloCup
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Bourque bounced around lots in Cgy but played some of his best hockey on the left side with Iggy - whether that's position or line mates hard to say
I'm up for trying anything to get him going
Along with Markov returning to form, Rene is probably one of the biggest keys to the Habs returning to respectability this season
He scores 25 it solves a lot of issues
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There's a little difference between hoping Semin can find his game at 7m when he still scored 21 goals and 54 points... has 1 season in the last 6 years under 26 goals.
and hoping Scott Gomez regains his form when he scored 2 goals and 11 points last year..... and 49 points combined over 2 full seasons.
I'm seriously starting to wonder about you, these comparisons are awful.
Off the top of my head have probably watched 2000 games and played 2000 more so know enough that focussing on a bad year or a good year will bite you in the ass more times than not but yes tired of debating a hypothetical proposal to death so onto something else
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If you can move Gionta for someone bigger without downgrading the talent level, sure do it. But lets remember that Gio has led our team in goals in 2 of the last 3 seasons, and we are a team that doesn't score enough goals to begin with. Right now we have 3 capable top 6 wingers in Cole, Patches, and Gionta. We need to add a 4th, and while I'm fine with moving Gionta in a lateral move for a bigger player, we can not afford to trade him if we aren't getting the same talent back.
It's because he's led our team in goals 2 of the last 3 seasons and is our captain that I'd rather keep him. I don't consider Clarkson to be equal talent to Gio. Sure he brings a different element of size and toughness but if Lou called asking us to trade a pretty sure 25 goal guy and a leader in the locker room for a potential one year wonder (and a possible rental at that) I want them to add something (or take someone) in return. I'm not shopping Brian, we know Semins off the market, Doan wants $30MM if you can get him, Ducks would want a lot more for Ryan so its basic supply and demand and you try and exploit that - even with a legend like Lou. I see Montreal taking the bigger risk of Clarkson repeating his goal total than Gio regardless of where he plays. Gomez is just a cash risk, no different than the Canes hoping Semin can find his $7MM game.
Would it be a miracle to see Gomez & Gionta go to the Devils and combine for 100 points next year while Clarkson slipped back to 15 goals and walk at year end with everyone calling Lou a genius for swindling the Habs rookie GM?
I'm saying it's not, based on history it's probably a 25% chance, 50% chance it works out for both clubs and 25% chance the Habs come out on top. Obviously others have a different opinion.
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OK, I won't take the defeatist attitude... I'll take yours.
So what do you guys think, would it be a good deal for Montreal to trade Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque and a 5th round pick for Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby?
We could do it... Malkin has a bad knee and Crosby has concussion issues. I bet the Penguins are just dying for Gomez a former 89 point scorer, Kaberle a top PP guy, Bourque who could get 30 goals, and that 5th round pick could be the next Jamie Benn.
Throw in Neal and we have a deal...
IF reports are true that Jersey want Gionta the minimum I want back is Clarkson.
IMO that is not an even trade given their historical stats and the fact they're the ones kicking tires not us so I'd also want a pick, say 4th rounder.
If that's out to lunch for some people fine, we keep Gio and they keep looking.
IF they'd like to take on Gomez's salary we give them that 4th rounder back.
At the end of the day the Devils basically get to keep their 4th rounder, Scotty with a 50/50 chance to put up 50 points and Gionta with a great chance to match/exceed Clarksons goal totals - be that 15 or 30.
We're in the drivers seat, we can keep Brian and bury Scotty in the minors if we need to clear cap space
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Thanks Spock for the reality check, I prefer to set the bar high and let the other guy decide market value, we don't have to sell. Gauthier/Gainey always took the defeatus attitude and got swindled, 28 other GMs wouldve gotten Perron or Backes out of St Louis for Halak or shopped him elsewhere.
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Cole and Gionta can not play on the same line. Neither works as a LW.
Cole is a Left handed shot Gio a Right, Erik spent most of his career playing LW
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Apologies didn't get to see many games to start last year but did we try Cole/Gionta/Gomez? Assuming we did but don't recall. Hate to break up our top line but if we don't add anybody to the roster maybe we give that a chance with a new coach and agree with some others that maybe DD moves to the wing alongside Pleks & Pacs, Desharnais is a poor mans St. Louis and much better suited as RW IMO. Gives us a big body power forward on each line and last chance for Gomez. Eller/Armstrong/Bourque then White/Prust/Moen.
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Yeah brain cramp was thinking where Wiz is vs where we got him from, either way Howson or Snow should be like candy from a baby to get a 4th for Yannick.
Getting a little anxious for the Subban contract announcement, Holmgren had no comment when asked if he's submitting an offer sheet for PK, unlikely after losing out on Weber but could pull a Lowe and try again right away - not that MB wouldn't match but who knows what stupid money the Flyers would offer if they did and how that would screw us for building a contender.
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Looks like the players are building in the proposed 22% salary rollback into their contract demands, tough to explain a $3MM raise for a guy Doan's age any other way, sad thing is he'll get it and drive the market up for any other useful UFAs. At this point can't see MB doing much else until training camp and see who wins a spot and then move the odd men out. Last thing we want to do is bring on another bloated salary that handcuffs us from resigning DD & Pacs, they won't come cheap - if they repeat last years numbers Max will be $5MM & David $3.5MM minimum, throw in Galchenyuk's $3MM+ ELC and even with Gomez gone still gunna be tight against the Cap.
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Fair enough. Is it some wishful thinking on my part? Yup? Have stranger things happened? Yup. Tanguay & Jokinen were driven out of town with good riddance - only to be brought back by Sutter as UFAs to everyones disappointment - outside of Iggy they've been their best fwds. A week ago Webers agent was burning bridges in Nashville and now they're all one big happy family - Lou will do what's best for his team. I don't see it a stretch for Gomez & Gionta to reunite with Elias and pick up where they left off - Scotty had 70 pts in NY, 58 1st year in Mtl before the wheels totally came off. Playing for JM and the pressure in Mtl and injuries are largely to blame. So Lou rolls the dice for $10MM over 2 years that he bounces back. He's never been a bad teammate and for a team coming off a Stanley Cup Finals loss adding a guy with 2 Cup rings and a great playoff track record isn't the worse thing you could do - that would be dropping $4MM/yr probably on a longer term deal to bring in AK and his 15 goals and off ice distractions. Adding another centre gives Lou the flexibility to deal pending UFA Zajac for Heatley (another high cap/low salary guy). Now you have 2 pretty good top lines with Henrique between Dany & Ilya and the EGG line. Clarkson is a career 15 goal scorer who put up 30 last year, Gionta is a career 27 goal scorer coming off an injury plagued year, its a bigger risk of Clarkson repeating than Brian. So why does Mtl trade him? Pleks & Gionta are too small IMO to play on the same line and you take the chance Clarkson can repeat and the cap space you free up packaging Gomez off allows you to pick up another top 6 fwd - thread starting with Doan but his asking price is ridiculous so maybe Arnott as a stop gap for 2 yrs. Yes the same is accomplished by burying Scotty in the minors but I'm sure Molson would rather have $10MM in his pocket given a choice.
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His PPG stats through the various leagues at this point in his career track nearly identical to Patrick Sharp's. If anyone recalls it took Sharp a number of years bouncing between the minors and a trade out of Philly before becoming a top 6 guy, obviously doesn't mean Leblanc will reach the same level - think this would be his ceiling - but interesting to see the similarities and reason for some optimism
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Til this offseason I'd argue Kaberle was overpaid but $4.25MM doesn't get you much these days. Pair him with Boullion and 2nd PP unit - can never have enough depth on D with Markov one hit away from being gone again. I liked Diaz over Weber on the PP so Yannick is the odd man out, try and trade him to the Jackets to get our 2013 4th rounder back.
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Okay, I'll bite.
Why would NJ bring back two players (who left for money because NJ can't afford them) for $13M/yr who are pretty much past their prime? On top of that, after losing Parise - they're going to trade their second best forward in Clarkson?! While we're at it, let's offer them Stephane Richer as well!
Salary is $10MM/year, 32/33 is hardly past prime if you look at the number of guys excelling close to 40, Gionta returning is rumored elsewhere not my creation, Kovy, Elias, Henrique, Zajac might argue with you on Clarkson being their best forward, he's a potential one year wonder, he's a UFA and might walk for nothing or want insane money, Lou knows hockey's a business people come and go, and finally cause Richer looked like he could still play in our top 6 when he skated at the battle of the blades and he's our last 50 goal man
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Semin got $7MM!!?? It's like it's closing time and people standards are dropping like a rock so they don't go home alone. Doan will get $6-7MM over longer term which would tie our hands resigning Pacs/DD regardless of what happens to Gomez. With Leblanc, Gallagher, Galchenyuk not far away from being ready unless we move someone in a trade I say we take the chance with what we got. Hopefully we lost AKs agents number, some people here did cartwheels when Cammy left, well that was me when AK46 departed, still cry when I look at the 2003 draft, yeah drafting is a crapshoot but somehow we managed to shoot pretty much the only crap in the 1st round. Let him go hang in the Russian bars with Rads.
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Are you sure you do not want to detract your first statement?
Not at all, just referencing their time in Jersey as my main point was them returning to form in a system they previously thrived in and without the pressure of being in Montreal. If you prefer, for their careers Scotty is 62 pts, Gio 53 pts & Clarkson 32 pts (extrapolated to 82 GP). If you focus on last season, absolutely it's a poor deal for the Devils but if that deal was offered in any of the previous 5 years we'd think Gainey/Gauthier totally lost it. If you've ever played the stock market, most investors would look at Gio/Gomez as good buys - low price (in trade value) and high upside to career trend, Clarkson would be a good sell - all time high and big drop to career trend. NJ was in on Semin and lost out so still looking to replace Parise and reports are they'd like to bring Brian back, if you look at their roster the only guys I would consider are Zajac or Clarkson (don't think we'd get Henrique or Larsson) and Travis is probably bolting at year end to play in Minny with Zach - if he's not traded away 1st.
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Stop proposing trades that are you trying to take advantage of another team. If you ever say to yourself, "I want that player" and then say, "I don't want to trade this player for him" you're probably now closer to the value than what you originally wanted to propose.
For example, if we want Clarkson? Better to be ready to say goodbye to Gorges.
I don't put the blinders on when looking at potential deals. Forget the salaries, Gomez averaged 65 pts a year in a Devils jersey, Gionta 55 - for whatever reason it hasn't worked out in Montreal (moreso for Scotty) but these guys are still young and tough to think they've forgotten how to play. Clarkson is a 28 year old soon to be UFA that until last season averaged 14 goals/year. New Jersey are struggling to attract fans which became tougher when Parise left. Bringing back 2/3rds of their top line from 5 years ago and the novelty of the Gio brothers playing together isn't a terrible marketing ploy but these guys should bounce back to form. Clarkson is far from a lock to repeat 30 goals so this has the potential to backfire huge in Montreal's face - insert salary dump here - that's the offset to the scales and potential to get Doan (see Semins off the market).
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Isn't New Jersey nearly bankrupt? Why would they do such a thing? Fact is, we can easily fit Doan under the cap if we want (well, depends on if he's reasonable in salary demands), just means demoting Gomez, which may happen eventually anyway.
Jersey had the $ to sign Parise, Zach chose the Wild. If you look at the salary #s they'd take on $10.5MM in 2013 & $9.5MM in 2014 and ship out $2.67MM on Clarkson who's a UFA at years end anyways so pretty much the same as they offered Zach without the term commitment. We'd basically sell Gionts at a bit of a loss to package off Scotty. Gomez & Gionta back together in the system where they had their best years and were fan favourites might soften the blow of Parise's loss both with the fans and on the scoresheet. I still don't believe Gomez forgot how to play, just Montreal wasn't/isn't a fit - he's not an 80 point guy but 60 should be within reach. If MB/Molson plan on burying Gomez in the minors of course we can fit Doan in, I just get the feeling they're not going to do it, Shane will want 4 years at $5MM minimum if not $6MM.
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Still laughing at the headline, guess it depends if you like him or love him.... Personally don't want my Habs touching him with a 10ft pole. Had the 'Radulov' disease early in his career and now is just mediocre with back to back 54 pt years. Anyone remember how terrible he was when we beat the Caps in 7 games? Managed 2 assists and was just as bad this year with 4 points in 2 rounds, let the Nucks have him with playoff stats like that. Everyone's crying for top 6 scorers and looking at selling the farm to get them, this guys been sitting for almost a month, that's enough of a red flag for me.
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Gionta/Gomez to the Devils for Clarkson and sign Doan with the $ we save. Doan playing RW with Pleks and Clarkson on LW. Would give us 2 sets of power forwards on our top lines capable of putting up 25+ goals and punishing the D
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3 trades totally nhl 2012
kaberle/weber
to nashville
draft picks
those picks and bourque
to nj
for 1st
gomez and 2 firsts
to cal
bouw
sign
semin
and doan
if not doan, grab ak on a cheap deal to fill in??????
Please, please no more AK!!
Seen posts by Jersey fans about trying to bring back Gionta to replace Parise as captain, hate to lose him but if we could tie him to Gomez as a package deal for maybe Clarkson gives us another big body up front - don't know if David would repeat his 30 goals from last year - but still a solid top 6 winger. And before people write off Gomez in the deal there was also talk about the Devils flipping centre Zajac to the Wild to play with Parise (would be funny if they dealt him for Heatley and reunited Dany with Ilya), this puts the Devils in the market for a centre and if anyone could get Scotty back playing it would be Lou and reuniting the EGG line would help the jersey fans forget Parise - somewhat. Clears $9+ million off our cap to take a run at Doan and regardless of what anyone says, if there's a way to avoid demoting a veteran like Gomez to the minors and paying him $10MM MB/Molson will do it.
Pacs/DD/Cole
Doan/Pleks/Clarkson
Bourque/Eller/Armstrong
Prust/White/Moen
Considerably tougher and 3 x 30 goal scorers
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I can't see Doan's interest being anymore then driving his price up. If he leaves phoenix he will want to go to a contender AND hit a contract home run. I think the rangers, flyers or kings will get him.
Yeah if he's playing that game to drive his price up they can have him. Might be tough to still call the Flyers a contender, they've lost Carle who was arguably their best d-man and Jagr and so far failed to add anyone tho not from lack of trying - looks really good on them.
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Would bring leadership and fill a hole in the top 6 without giving a certain d-man away
hopefully the Price connection works and the previous rumors of a 4 year $30MM offer on the table from another team were exaggerated, 4 year $20MM would be max for a guy his age -
Teams with two 30 goal scorers in their top six
- Montreal (Pacioretty, Cole)S
- Pittsburgh (Malkin, Neal)
- New Jersey (Kovalchuk, Parise*, Clarkson)
- Anaheim (Perry, Ryan)
- Long Island (Moulson, Tavares)
- Ottawa (Michalek, Spezza)
- San Jose (Couture, Pavelski, Marleau)
So we have two 30 goal scorers, which we're in the company of six other teams.
How many players in the lineup have the potential to score 20 goals that didn't last season?
- Rene Bourque (18 on a bad year)
- Tomas Plekanec (17, with five seasons of 20 goals to his name)
- Brian Gionta (seven straight 20+ goal seasons before this injury season)
- Lars Eller (16 on the third line)
- David Desharnais (16 in his first full season in the NHL)
Who on the team has the ability to score 10+ goals?
- Travis Moen (9 goals last season before injured)
- Colby Armstrong (15 and 22 with Atlanta before his injury seasons)
- Brandon Prust (13 with New York in 10-11)
- P.K. Subban (14 goals in 10-11)
- Louis Leblanc (5 goals in 42 games playing bottom six)
Who could play for the Canadiens in the next three years with the ability to score at least 10 goals and the potential to score 20+?
- Alex Galchenyuk (31 goals as a 16 year old in the OHL)
- Brendan Gallagher (40+ goal scorer in the WHL)
- Danny Kristo (19 goals for North Dakota)
Joke Option
- Scott Gomez (Once scored 33 goals)
Doom and gloom?
Not doom & gloom but no warm & fuzzy that we'll have secondary scoring this year and that was by far our biggest weakness last season. As for the PK thread, I was also a teen when Chelios was dealt and similar to the Gomez & Roy deal loathed it immediately. Chris was already a Norris winner, Subban is just a projection. Yes he logged lots of minutes and we'd be lost without him last couple of years, but that's a statement on our lack of depth, he's maybe in the top 30 in the league at this point and was ahead of Phaneuf in giveaways, had run ins with teammates/coaches, took dumb penalties, and I thought his offensive game regressed but came around in 2nd half. I was in Calgary for Dion's rookie year when everyone proclaimed he was the next one, I even bought a signed rookie pic at auction thinking it would be worth something, can't give it away now, but for a couple of years he was a god in Cowtown. I honestly don't believe Subban will suffer Dions fate and will mature with the proper supporting cast and is an elite talent but yes there's a handful of 30 goal young guys with high ceilings I'd consider dealing him for, E Kane, Bobby Ryan, Eberle, among them but that's about it - we're not getting a superstar but I wouldn't trade him for a prospect or someone on the decline of their career.
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I'm with Matt for the Kaberle thing. I really believe that he is undervalued on this board and that next season could be a great one for him with PP time and limited time 5 on 5.
Where I disagree with him is about Subban. I would NEVER trade him for Evander Kane. Never. That would be the dumbest trade we'd made since Patrick Roy.
E Kane's #s are almost identical to Iggy's after 3 years and same as Rick Nash last year. I get you like PK but to be fair if you are projecting Subban's potential you have to do that with Kane as well, it's not in the dumbest trade since Roy category.
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Shane Doan, is he serious, and do we want him?
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
And they were even rumoured to be re-signing Alexei who's contemplating a comeback to the NHL - he'd be on their books twice which I'm guessing would be a 1st in pro-sports.
Can see Tavares pulling a Nash in about 3 years.