Savard & the Habs

[Habs77]

This was posted on another board, by someone claiming to have some inside info... take it for what's it worth, still an interesting read:

I had a rather lengthy and frank conversation with a high-ranking NHL executive this week, and was somewhat surprised to hear his opinions on Andre Savard.  

Remember the little story about Bill Lindsay being promised a spot on the team by Savard, only to be sent down to Hamilton? That was the only instance I'd previously heard about any dissension concerning Savard's dealings, but that was apparently only the tip of the iceberg..

First of all; Pierre Mondou is retiring from the game; it will likely be announced some time after the draft. Pierre is considered one of the nicest persons in all of hockey; this fellow told me there are few classier guys in the game, but the exec tells me he cannot stand Savard and is now fed up with the organization and the scouting profession because of it. "Savard has treated him like nuts," he said, "and it's a disgrace to see the way they've treated a guy that gave his all to the organization for all those years."  

Apparently Pierre Dorion has been hamstrung by Savard since Christmas. As some of you know, Dorion has been demoted on at least two occasions under the Savard regime, and was not offered a new contract. Hockey Canada asked permission to talk to Dorion about one of the head scouting positions a few months back, and Savard refused. He also won't let him talk to other clubs about a position. Dorion will be leaving the club as soon as possible as well.

"Savard is an arrogant prick" said the NHL executive on more than one occasion, describing him as unapproachable and disloyal as I tried to defend Savard's position. "None of the other GM's in the league can stand him."  

Trevor Timmins, who I assume became Andre's buddy during their time in Ottawa, was brought in to help with scouting, and the inside word is that he's already getting a much larger sway on scouting opinion than Dorion, who just a couple of years back was the club's head scout.

Timmins is from Arnprior, Ont., and recently told Savard that he should pursue Lucas Lawson as a college free agent. Interestingly, Lawson is from Braeside, which is about three minutes outside of Arnprior. Other scouts in the Habs organization liked Kunitz a lot more, but Savard apparently listened to Timmins and his hometown selection. Lawson is nowhere near the player that Kunitz is from all accounts, and believe me, I'd hype Lawson if I thought he'd be a solid NHLer, but I have my doubts. As it turned out, Lawson was signed by the Rangers, but Kunitz (runner up for the Hobey Baker) and Peter Sejna were the real prizes.

As for Timmins; the NHL executive told me that in Ottawa he was a "good number cruncher" with absolutely no scouting experience, and suddenly he appears to be Andre's right hand man on draft decisions.  

I thought Madden was the chief scout, but from what I gather he's keeping an eye on the prospects. Not really much of a job, but I guess Andre is just repaying an old buddy with a job.  

This is one of the few teams without an organized scouting hierarchy, and that was very evident to me when I sought an interview with the club's head scout last fall in Hull when I met most of the club's management in their team suite. They all looked at each other; one told me to talk to Madden, who told me to talk to Mondou; Pierre suggested I speak to Savard. They appeared quite confused about the whole situation.

From what I can gather; Savard is also the head scout - perhaps the only team in the league with such a setup. Kind of bizzare. I realize he has a good reputation with his draft abilities, but it's rare to see someone attempt to run the scouting and be GM at the same time in today's NHL. Even Sammy Pollock relied on his scouts for the majority of his picks.

(Late note: The Hockey News apparently lists Timmins as the head scout. I find that hard to believe, but apparently hia lack of scouting experience has "earned" him the position).  

Here's another example of how Savard can operate: Back when Eric Chouinard was playing for his father Guy in Quebec, Andre's son was a teammate of Eric's. Word has it that Guy had promised Andre that his son would not be traded that season; but just before the trade deadline he was dealt. Apparently, Savard hit the roof when he found out, and vowed revenge if he ever got the opportunity.

Well; lo and behold; guess who became Eric's boss a couple of years back?

Yep - the same guy who subsequently never gave him a single game of NHL action. More than a few people think that it was not because of Chouinard's play, but rather Savard's tendency to hold a grudge.

It bothers me tremendously that Andre would be treating loyal employees in such a manner. It seems to fall in place with his approach with numerous Houle draft picks as well. Andre, one would surmise, is attempting to rid the organization of "all things Houle and Corey". It would help if he knew how to do it diplomatically at least, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Time has shown that some of Montreal's scouts did a decent job in the six drafts before Andre arrived, and Mondou and Dorion were the main guys during that tenure. Markov, Garon, Hainsey, Ward, Asham, Ribeiro, Ryder, Beauchemin, Hossa, Dwyer, Clark, Tarasov, Puurula, Balej, Enqvist and Chouinard, who fetched a 2nd rounder in this draft. Some pretty decent names on that list to go along with the clunkers that everyone endures.

Well; the honeymoon is over for me. I am now officially in favour of Andre Savard being replaced with Bob Gainey after the draft if he wants the job.  

The fellow told me that George has lost much of his enthusiasm with Savard, and I don't blame him. Another season of poor decisions like the last one and he'll be gone.  

We have been saddled with players no other teams want thanks in large part to excessive contracts: Traverse, Brisebois, Dykhuis, Perreault, Juneau, McKay, Audette, Czerkawski, Dackell. Our youth may save us, but I have a feeling it will be under a new GM by the time they're ready.

If Gainey is indeed available right now, I really hope Gillet does all in his power to bring him on board. One of his first moves would hopefully then be to make sure Dorion and Mondou remain with the organization or at least leave on good terms, while Timmins can go back to accounting. I can guarantee you one thing; the odds of Carbo and other ex-Habs like Robinson, Jarvis, etc., ever returning to the organization are infinitely higher with Gainey at the helm.

I don't know if anyone else had the same reaction to this.. but beyond the anti-AS bit if Mondou & Dorion are being pushed out it does fit with the other rumor that AS is about to lose his GM duties and head to the scouting department.

This is all speculation, still a nice distraction during the off-season... no?

[sakiqc]

It seems to fall in place with his approach with numerous Houle draft picks as well. Andre, one would surmise, is attempting to rid the organization of "all things Houle and Corey".  

Greeeaaaat !! :clap:

From what I can gather; Savard is also the head scout - perhaps the only team in the league with such a setup. Kind of bizzare. I realize he has a good reputation with his draft abilities, but it's rare to see someone attempt to run the scouting and be GM at the same time in today's NHL. Even Sammy Pollock relied on his scouts for the majority of his picks.  

(Late note: The Hockey News apparently lists Timmins as the head scout. I find that hard to believe, but apparently hia lack of scouting experience has "earned" him the position).  

Yes.. i think the problem is exactly there. He can't do both, head scout and General Manager. Everyone knows how talented he is to find prospects (havlat, hossa and co.)

As for Mondou and Dorion out.. i have not much problem with that..:idea:

[Edited on 2003-5-27 by sakiqc]

[Justathot]

I don't know if that's true but it is certainly consistent with what we KNOW to be true. For example, a lot of GMs were ticked off-- especially Brian Burke-- when Savard traded Linden to the Caps without first calling them back. Ditto when Weinrich was traded to Boston after St. Louis had been promised a call back from Savard.

Savard needs to be in charge of player development with Timmons and Dorion as scouts and Madden and Bobby Smith in charge of pro scouting with Bob Gainey as GM/President and with Boivin as VP-Marketing/Finance

[KoZed_old]

Originally posted by Justathot

Savard needs to be in charge of player development with Timmons and Dorion as scouts and Madden and Bobby Smith in charge of pro scouting with Bob Gainey as GM/President and with Boivin as VP-Marketing/Finance

Bobby Smith doesnt deserve a job in Montreal. He has done nothing worth the mention. And Gainey was an average GM who only benefited from Hicks' deep pockets in Dallas, which ultimately blew in his face in 2001-2002.

Enough of these stupid nostalgic picks...

[Edited on 31-5-03 by Habs77]

[Markov79]

Who was responsable for all the horrible drafting of the 1990's?

I for one am happy that Savard is showing the ''old Habs scouts'' how it should be done. And we've been getting excellent results since Savard is aboard, why complain?

And who are we to know what really happens durings conversations between GM's? Anybody have a telephone spy they can trust?

[Habsaku]

The thing about getting rid of everything Houle/Corey brought in doesnt make much sense because Ward, Ryder, Hossa, Hainsey, Balej and Garon(???) are still with the team and are very well placed in the depth chart. Its good that they get rid of the scouts who messed up so many 1st round picks.

[sakiqc]

I'm quite sad. I would have like to see Savard get a "REAL" job, like head scout or I don't know. But "ass-GM" ?! Is there a more meaningless fonction than "assistant" to the GM? I would have like to know what would be his task definition. Well, it's probably normal, cause Savard is still the GM for the month and Gainez has to (re)difine the administration under him.

Well, I don't really worry about it. It's just that I would not want Savard lose his time and scout NHL games. I hope he has all his time to be in charge of player development, go in Hamilton often and in juniors and European leagues.

I'm really happy that AS is still in good terms with the organization. Don't remember of another GM or coach who was working for more than 2 years and being demoted he stay with the team in good terms and on a high position. AS is a real professional, and like Boivin said, he puts the team before his career. :clap:

[Habs77]

AS asking to be removed as GM was because he thought he was about to lose his job... this was about ensuring his future.

I give him kudos for that, most people would be too proud and simply go down with the ship.

AS reminds me of a guy I knew at work... he was real good at his job, got a promotion but the new responsibilities just didn't fit him... he struggled, became stressed out because he was a little overwhelmed... ended up moving out of the company, knowing he was going to be fired before long.

AS is an excellent director of scouting, and player evaluation, but as GM he doesn't quite make the cut. I'm talking about contracts, about dealing with fellow GMs, about dealing with the Montreal media. He was no longer in his comfort zone, and his effectiveness suffered.

Now we have both Gainey & Savard who are both in their respective comfort zones, and have strengths that complement each other perfectly.

I am very happy Gainey is our new GM, but I wouldn't be as happy as I am now if AS hadn't stayed in the organization.

Again, it all starts at the top... this is thanks to GG, the day we finally got a good owner I knew this team would get better... it just takes time to rinse out the losing stench left by the prior administration.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by sakiqc

I'm quite sad. I would have like to see Savard get a "REAL" job, like head scout or I don't know. But "ass-GM" ?! Is there a more meaningless fonction than "assistant" to the GM? I would have like to know what would be his task definition.

AS said himself he'll finally be able to travel alot more... see the games and evaluate players. Then Gainey stepped in and added he was going to need AS for more than just that... that AS was going to be very much needed as the team went forward.

I think by giving him the asst. GM job it makes this look/feel less like a demotion... it's more like everyone else in the organization stays the same, just insert Gainey (executive vice-president & GM) between Boivin (president) & AS (asst. GM).

This way it also prevents everyone under AS to get a demotion aswell (Madden was asst GM but he's been around long enough not to care what his official title is). This was the way to go... AS will have the last word on scouting I'm sure.

:hlogo:

[Edited on 2-6-03 by Habs77]