Habs Fan in Edmonton
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Posts posted by Habs Fan in Edmonton
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27 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:
Don't kidd yourself their would be a lot of contending teams that need goaltending would love Price.
Agree, I think Price still has tremendous value. Although he has been through a rough patch recently, he is still an elite goalie. It's amazing how much better a goalie looks when a team plays with structure in front of them. The Habs have lacked that recently. His contract would make him more difficult to trade but there are a lot of examples of goalies who played at a high level late into their thirties.
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6 minutes ago, Scott462 said:
I agree, the kids need veterans around to help them along.
Thats why hanging on to guys like Weber will be helpful if the plan is to rebuild.
Agree, even if you are doing a rebuild you need some veteran leadership to show the way. The Oilers will absolutely abysmal because they didn't have a strong enough veteran presence when they had some talented kids. Ask Andrew Ference about that. He really unloaded on them. Now their young talented guys have character.
I think MB decided a couple years ago that the only real way to build a winner was through the draft and making the odd trade when appropriate. I think the Pacioretty trade will pay off in spades. The pass Suzuki made on the 3rd goal was phenomenal.
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4 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:
I guess your way is always right, lets just keep the Path we're on and do nothing. continue to finish just outside a playoff spot and pick from 15-20. Then when the young guys are ready to make the NHL, just in time for Price, Weber and petry to retire and we end up with nothing for them.
That makes a so much better plan.
Because it worked so will with Markov, lets do it again.
It's not a question of doing nothing. Panic moves rarely work.
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13 minutes ago, illWill said:
I don't believe it was an issue with Hall as much as it was Chiarelli painting himself into a corner needing a young RHD. When your cards are showing the sharks will eat
I disagree 100% on that one, Edmonton is a small city. Hall had to go and Chiarelli was in a corner because he had to get rid of him. But perhaps Hall has matured since his time in Edmonton. Young guys do grow up.
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1 hour ago, Commandant said:
His agent has a history of taking his player to free agency and not signing during the season. Hes a rental for whoever signs him.
Dont think this is a character concern though. I dont blame players for wanting to see what is on the market.
As for the reason he was traded for Larsson. Chiarelli is an idiot.
Chiarelli made some bad moves no question but apparently Larsson was the best he could get as teams had concerns about Hall. I don't blame players at all for seeing what's on the market. Anyway it doesn't matter much anyway, I don't see Hall coming here.
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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:
Not unless you can guarantee that you can sign him. I’d try moving Weber or Price. But given that your giving up cornerstone pieces I would not be willing to add anything else and I think the devils want a player, pick and prospect, plus an additional pick if Hall resigns.
even with Hall we are not a playoff team, the defence still sucks and we need a goalie (which is the devils problem have). Given these issues there is no way Hall would resign without us.
Agree that you don't make that trade unless you can guarantee resigning him. I am leery of giving up too much for Hall, love his talent, not convinced of his character which I mentioned on another thread. There is a reason that the best the Oilers could get for a young dynamic player like Hall was Adam Larson who is a decent defenceman but nowhere near the talented player Hall is.
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32 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
The current slump certainly magnifies the likelihood of MB swinging a deal for Hall. Doing so also fits the pattern he displayed with Petry: get the player here, show them that Montreal is a good place to be, then sign.
I wouldn't give up a significant package for Hall (would most certainly include top prospects and picks) and then take the chance of losing him for nothing in the summer. I am a fan of Hall's talent but not convinced of his character. I expect he will go to the highest bidder in the summer, it won't be Jersey so I expect them to trade him somewhere.
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43 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
I suspect the Subban trade was not risky in MB's mind. It was about getting rid of a player MT and MB both hated in return for a player who was about as safely old-school as you can get. Arguably, his desire to trade PK in the first place was a symptom of "risk aversion" - not liking a player who didn't fit within proscribed, old-fashioned ideas about what players are supposed to be. Weber, on the other hand, is the walking incarnation of those ideas.
The Alzner signing is similar. MB probably looked at Alzner and saw an old-school guy, reliable in his end, safe as houses in other words. It blew up in his face because at that point he, unlike every other human being on the planet, had not yet figured out that the game was moving toward speed and puck-moving.
The Drouin trade was risky in hockey terms given that it removed our Markov replacement, but the risk was mitigated by the PR "win" of getting back a talented francophone. If I am correct that MB's primary interest is in keeping his job, that was not a risky trade, at least not in the short run.
The Domi trade took cojones and paid off in spades. That's an exception to the rule, as I see it.
I think the Subban trade was risky from the perspective that trading a highly talented, high profile, popular with the fans (I think), player can come back and bite you. Looking back, it hasn't been risky as Subban seemed to have worn out his welcome in Nashville. I really like Weber and he was certainly a safe addition for the reasons you mentioned.
I think the Drouin trade was risky as giving up a potential stud defenceman can make any GM look bad. I think even the francophone fans would prefer to have a stud Russian defenceman to an inconsistent francopohone forward. Who wouldn't want to have a young Markov again? The jury is still out on that one.
Yup, Alzner was a mistake , MB messed up that one (perhaps his scouts can part of the blame), tying up the money he has for a player like Alzner was a risk but obviously a bad one.
The point I was trying to make is that MB is not afraid to make a trade and has taken risks, more risks than many GM's in the league. Some have worked, some haven't, some we need more time to evaluate.
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44 minutes ago, tomh009 said:
Yes, that's fair. The insufficient internal data makes it difficult to criticize (in)action this month, for example, or even a single season. But over the span of multiple seasons there should be options available to improve the team.
And Bergevin is definitely on the risk-averse end of the spectrum.
I don't dispute that MB has had time to address certain deficiencies and hasn't. I don't consider MB risk averse, the Subban trade and the Domi trade were not risk averse trades. The Alzner signing was high risk and turned out to be a bad risk.
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3 hours ago, JoeLassister said:
One more time, you prove that you TOTALLY don't understand the matter at stakes.
I'm done explaining the difference between black face 12 years ago vs using the N word 12 years ago.
Stay right there in your soft racist zone with your privileged entourage.I agree there is a huge difference between black face and the N word if that's your point. I think what Trudeau did was based on ignorance not any sort of racism. I am no fan of Trudeau but am willing to give him a break on that one. I am not a young man but it's only because of what came out with Trudeau that I have come to understand what black face is. I have known for a long long time that the N word is horrible. Peters should have known better. There is no excuse for his behaviour.
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1 hour ago, Commandant said:
Cj is supposed to be a defence first coach.
The PK has been a disaster all.year.
Now the 5v5 has broken down.
Im on him to be the one out the door. Let Bouchard take over.
Let Bouchard take over ? Does that mean Alain Vigneault or Michelle Therrien are not available? OK, bad joke.
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4 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:
The initial moment that led us to have unexpected cap space available was the season that both Radulov and Markov were let go. I will accept that Radulov may have decided to sign elsewhere where taxes have much less of an impact, however I don’t think it would have been unwise to offer $500k or even a million more than he was worth considering three years later we are still “waiting for that opportunity” to use our unused cap space. Radulov is one of the best Russian players to ever play the game, so if signing him is not an opportunity in your mind, then I’m not sure what would constitute as an opportunity.
Furthermore, our record with Markov was impregnable Compared to without him when he was on the team and while he admittedly was on his final legs, we are still looking for his replacement three years later.
I don’t think there’s a single person out there who would say we should use our cap space on players that make you marginally better, so why would that be your conclusion? We should use our cap space on impact players. Free agents don’t want to sign here? Although that’s an easy excuse, if that’s the case, target teams who need to alleviate their cap issues. Make trades. Last year we ended the season with roughly 9-10 million in unused cap space.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that teams like St. Louis and Washington are roughly 1 million over the cap during their cup winning seasons. Pittsburgh had roughly 1 million available. These are the teams who have won the cup recently. No one is saying that we should spend on mediocrity. Leaving 10 million available and then “saving it” during a season where we miss the playoffs by 2 points does not seem like a correct strategy to me. It’s very hard to raise expectations to a cup aspiration, at the very least.
I agree with a lot of your points. I definitely thought resigning Radulov was an opportunity. I was tremendously disappointed when he was not resigned as he is a terrific player. I believe (who really knows) that MB made a sincere effort to resign him but failed. Whether it was only money that influenced Radulov's decision to leave or something else, who knows. If it was purely money then competing with Dallas where these is no state income tax is difficult. It's interesting that many crucify MB for net getting Radulov resigned but hardly anyone gives him credit for taking a chance to bring him back to the NHL when almost no other GM was willing to do it. Obviously management thought Markov was on his last legs and wouldn't give him 2 years. he wouldn't be helping them now that's for sure but you are absolutely right as that's when the unexpected cap space became available.
It's true that teams winning the cup are close to the cap limit or slightly over. What free agent do you think the Habs could have signed over the last couple years to get them to be a cup contender? Obviously Alzner was a big mistake.
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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:
Because of the taxes and the exchange rate which puts it at a disadvantage. In addition, the extra media scrutiny has discouraged many players including Gardiner.
By stashing money and building prospect depth, MB has moved the team to a position of strength for when the right opportunity arises.
Exactly, I think MB has finally realized his best chance of success is building from within, overpaying for guys like Alzner (big mistake) sets you back. Not saying that you don't jump in when the right free agent opportunity is available but it's harder as mentioned for the Habs to get free agents without overpaying.
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4 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:
I just find it funny that everyone gives Bergevin a pass. 8 years of the same old shit. Like I said it's not about wining and wining a cup anymore and some how everyone is ok with it. Hey here's to 10 more years of Bergevin and his cap space. Who needs a cup we have 24 of them that's plenty.
I don't think everyone is giving Bergevin a pass, he has made mistakes no question. I prefer to focus on what he should do going forward in an era where teams are limited by the salary cap. At the least the last couple years he has accumulated draft picks and accumulated some good young talent. The only way you can win in this salary cap world is having some good young players on entry level contracts to give you some flexibility.
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10 minutes ago, illWill said:
You're aware that there are 31 teams in a salary cap right? We aren't the NY Yankees that can spend a trillion dollars on players and pay a luxury tax. Parity. Get used to it or be miserable
Exactly, managing the cap wisely is not easy. If every GM was fired for missing the playoffs once there would be a lot of GM openings every year.
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20 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
Don't get too excited. We hear similar whisperings every time there is a high-profile impending UFA. But it'd be fun if it happened.
It would be fun if it happened, if the contract was somewhat reasonable and if Taylor has grown up since his time in Edmonton. When was the last time a high profile free agent chose Montreal over somebody else especially when that free agent would have multiple offers. He will choose the biggest offer and it won't be Montreal or New Jersey.
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I don't get why many are so focused on spending to the cap. In my opinion you spend to the cap when a good opportunity comes up, not waste it on a mediocre player that will make you marginally better. MB has made attempts but some players don't want to come here. He has some cap room and hopefully a good opportunity will come up where he can use it wisely. He also has players coming up that will get raises (ie. Domi, Gallagher). He has to think about that as well.
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3 minutes ago, tomh009 said:
Maybe. Or maybe not.If I were Bergevin, I’d really want to know what the hell is going on. I’d want to talk to the players (without Julien) to get their perspective, too. And to each of the assistants, one on one. And Julien, too, of course.
I was just kidding about Babcock. I think he will take a break for a while, did the Toronto media ever throw him under the bus after he got fired. Definitely the last 2 games are cause for concern, not panic time but cause for concern. Is there a flu bug going around the dressing room?
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4 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:
Julien. "It doesn't get more embarrassing than blowing a 4-0 lead."
Habs. "Challenge accepted"
Good one!! Made me laugh. Since being up 4-0 the Habs have been outscored 14-2 at home. Ouch!
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7 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:
Yeah but this slide started when they got hurt.
But in my eyes this is a team that looks lost when on the ice. This team isn't playing the coach's system and that's on every aspect of the game.... Offense/defense and special teams. The players are just not listening to anyone.
Well there is a coach available who studied sport psychology and is very familiar with the city of Montreal. Maybe they will listen to him?
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6 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:
Thats my point if you want an elite D you got to give up to get it. Your not getting a top LD for 4th line players.
No question that elite D do not come cheap. Did you have anyone in mind ?
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21 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:
If we're not going all in now what's the point in keeping guys like Price, Weber, Petry and Gallagher? Trade them all and play all the young guys. At least fans won't have false hope. Keeping these guys gives you a chance to win, so why not surround them with talent to win.
I like our forward group, we needed to upgrade our D badly just look at last nights game vrs NYR. We finally have the type of prospects that other teams want in trades that are rebuilding , so why not finally take advantage of it?
To make trades for top elite players That team's are rebuilding and look for
Draft picks
NHL ready prospects
Contracts that are ending
We have all that right now plus that cap space. Make the moves now.
For example
Tatar + Poehling + 1st round pick
Would get you a top LD that we need. Would it weaken us no it would only make us stronger.
If you are giving up Tatar + Poehling + a 1st round pick then you better get an elite NHL defenceman, in my opinion Gostisbhere is not elite. That's a lot to give up. Your leading goal scorer, plus a great prospect plus a first.
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17 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:
Here is an idea:
to Chicago:
Chicago's 2nd round pick, Josh Brook and Christian Folin (to make room on the NHL roster)to Montreal:
Erik Gustafsson
On a contract year, Gustafsson would coe to Montreal like Petry did and may fill the LD hole.
Chicago gets a draft pick, a good prospect and an NHL RD which they seem to be lacking.
He did put up a lot of points last year but Josh Brook and a 2nd seems like a lot to give up for a guy who will likely be a rental. I am really high on Josh Brook and hate to give him up but in the right deal it may be worth it.
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3 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:
Not a link just remember from hockey talk show 's when they talk rumor mills. I think hockey central or satellite hot stove. But I remember it was Draisaiti or hall at times with the 1st. But they were saying Bergevin was pushing for them to include Klefbom.
But I do remember the whole thing got started because French media and fans wanted Bergevin to trade up to draft Dubois. So people brought up PK because Edmonton needed a D and Draisaiti was brought up because Montreal needed a center.
But what's done is done.
Yes, what's done is done. Who really knows what went on behind the scenes, two top 4 picks would have been too much to give up for Subban. Bottom line is the Oilers kept Draisaitl and they are very glad they didn't trade him anywhere. Would have loved to see him in a Hab uniform. He is a beast.
Permanent Trade Proposal Thread
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
I am not sure why so many have mentioned Honka as a defenceman of interest. He is an undersized (180 lbs) right handed shooting defenceman who has scored 2 goals in 87 NHL games. I don't think that's what we need short or long term.