Plutarch
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Posts posted by Plutarch
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How did Barron look?
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On 12/22/2022 at 4:44 PM, dlbalr said:
File this one under the makes no sense category:
Barron's hurt, Leskinen's hurt, Bowey's hurt, and Green is gone. Now, let's let another defenceman go for a week and a half when they can barely ice six competent blueliners right now with Beaudin in the lineup. Oh, and the Habs are carrying just six healthy defencemen and will need to call someone up if any of their other blueliners get injured. Let's add this to the 'asking for trouble' category that a lot of their roster decisions lately have fallen under.
15 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:Dello is out, injured. Rocket is still leading mid-way I the 3rd. From the bits and pieces I’ve seen: Harvey-Pinard, Ylonen and Teasdale have been alright.
And there it is
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On 12/14/2022 at 4:35 PM, dlbalr said:
One retention slot will be Monahan and I'm quite confident at least one will be a third-party retention slot. They're already being linked as a team that's expected to do so and with them having some LTIR room, they can do so without much issue. I think the preference for #3 right now is Dadonov who should have more value than Drouin's (which isn't saying much). Hoffman would be a darkhorse if they opt to retain a bit to match salary in a player-for-player swap which would be better than retaining 50% on Drouin for next to nothing. I was hoping Byron might be back at some point and him at 50% for his PK ability might have had a taker or two but that's not happening by the looks of it.
Five of those in three years is an increase compared to what it was before although truth be told, I thought there were more last year. I know I wrote about third-party possibilities enough on PHR that I suspected there were more than that a year ago but I do appreciate you taking the effort to look that up. I do expect there will be several moves like that this season. With some sellers having retention slots and not much of value to trade, they'll get creative and with way more cap-strapped teams this time around, they'll find willing partners.
With Drouin, I just don't see a team that would want him, including the Jets. If you're a team that wants to go far in the playoffs, is he really who you'd want to add? If the answer is no, then they should be pivoting toward looking for other options to use those slots on. Maybe I'm wrong and he goes on a nice run and someone wants him. That'd be nice but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
I also hold almost no hope for a Drouin trade... I also hope more three way retention trades happen.
Maybe it hasn't happened yet because GMs collective hesitancy to start using a tool which will lead to future all ins being even more expensive in terms of picks or owners not interested in basically paying for late low chance of success picks.
The dam will break eventually.
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On 12/13/2022 at 12:35 PM, DON said:
Savard/Matheson out 2-3 weeks.
We really are lucky that our young have held there own at the NHL level with all our injuries to vets. Easily could have expected at least one or two to falter and lose all confidence.
Also, the Kovacevic waiver pickup really has been great.
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That fourth line is quite odd haha
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On 12/13/2022 at 7:11 AM, dlbalr said:
The Habs would get a better return as a third-party retainer (of which those deals are being more common each year) than they would by retaining on Drouin. No one is going to want Drouin. Bowness may have coached him but he's known for being a demanding coach who wants intensity and defensive play. Drouin provides neither of those so he'd be in the doghouse within a game and a half. I don't think the Jets would take Drouin at 50% for free as a result let alone give something up for him. Like I said, their best bet at getting something for Drouin would be taking back another sizable unwanted expiring deal and there aren't a lot of those out there. Give up on the idea of getting value for him, it's not happening.
If Winnipeg has the budget room to add a top-six forward (and with their attendance down, that's not a given), there will be many better options than Drouin to choose from. Bowness may not have coached that player many years ago but that other player would almost certainly be a better fit for the way they play.
I'm not quite sure why you're pushing Appleton. He's a dime-a-dozen bottom-six winger who, quite frankly, isn't all that useful aside from killing penalties. That's why Seattle gave him back to Winnipeg for a fourth-rounder last year when his contract was less than $1 million. This is not the type of player to acquire with the idea of flipping him a year later with retention as all you're going to get is a mid-round pick at best.
I guess I wasn't clear in my earlier posts. I was trying to find possible moves for each player. That doesn't mean they are the best moves.
I wasn't focusing on Appleton because I want him. He just was the expendable player that has SOME potential value next season to flip for a mid round pick. Having a bottom six guy next year to play harder defensive minutes then flip for a 4-5th isn't a terrible move. IF you can't find a use for your retention spots.
Also I find it very hard to believe we will be using all three of our retention slots this deadline without one on Drouin.
I 100% do not mean to be rude but you say these three way retention trades are increasing... They aren't as far as I can tell. 2020: 1 Lehner, 2021: 3 Janmark, Foligno, Savard. 2022: 1 Domi. Basically there was one year where it happened more. It will take off in the future but not yet. Maybe it's GM's not liking helping out the teams or owners arent into taking on salary just yet due to lost revenues (yes they are high now but maybe they are still hesitant).
I guess I don't see why the idea of losing one of our retention spot for the 1 or 2 deals that might use it when there are likely 10 other teams capable. Makes a retaining Drouin trade a terrible idea.
Sure the Winnipeg one might be not great but i don't see any other team that would be vaguely interested. So realistically Drouin probably is just going to hang with us the rest the season.
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I really just don't want to have lost sergachev for nothing haha. At least a 4th round pick next year will give hope of a future hahaha.
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On 12/11/2022 at 5:38 PM, dlbalr said:
Generally speaking, I think the Habs have to pivot away from the idea of getting anything for Drouin. If you're a playoff team, is Drouin the type of player you'd want in the lineup? I don't think so. Maybe if they retained 50% they could get a seventh-rounder but is that the best usage of a retention slot? Their best shot at trading him is in a cap dump for cap dump type of trade. Connections won't matter much on that front, it'll just be a matter of finding another player a team has had enough of.
Hoffman's tenure in St. Louis wasn't smooth at all to the point where he was a healthy scratch and they were more than happy to have him leave. Plus, they're basically limited to rentals only as their cap space is tied to Scandella's LTIR. Hoffman might be a player for player type of swap as well.
Seattle's capped out so a trade for Dadonov or Hoffman is unlikely. Detroit might buy on Dadonov if they're in the mix and the asking price is low.
Philly likes Anderson but the cap makes it difficult. Colorado can't afford Anderson's long-term contract. They'll be in on Monahan though.
Salary caps are tight atm so in theory retaining salary slots are valuable but we didn't see a lot of third party retaining on trades at the previous deadline, despite the hype. If memory serves.
So I'm not honestly concerned about using slots for single year retainment when we have three open atm.
On Drouin. I think there are very few options out there.
the only opportunity to get something from Drouin is 50% retained. So I was thinking of replacing guys on a team that have a $2.75M cap hit and aren't fitting. Appleton makes sense to me because Winnipeg has a offensive winger hole in their top six, a top six that is basically just given offensive zone starts. Plus Winnipeg's bottom six has been fine without him, new young guys playing well, and he's having the rough season advanced stat wise.
For a move like that I thought a guy in management or coaching who may have faith in Drouin (I imagine no upstairs manager likes him from Tampa, Habs or Halifax times from holdouts and disappointing play here) so that leaves coaches from TB or HFX... Hence Bowness mattering.
I think that's our best shot at something in return. Then next year we flip Appleton retained. He is an NHLr who gets shots in close and is defensively responsible. He will get grabbed at 1.1M next trade deadline. Plus his rough season is mainly in the context of being slightly overpaid and a 4 SH% so retaining and him shooting average could get us a 4th next year? (Probably more than we'd get for Drouin). And Apple won't take top six minutes away from our young forwards (like Hoffmann or Drouin) to showcase.
Anyways I think that may be the best bet for Drouin? I couldn't find anything else haha.
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28 minutes ago, dlbalr said:
What's the pick coming Montreal's way? Unless that's a first-rounder, the Habs should stay away. They can't use their best trade asset (and two retention slots) on a third-line winger that only has two years of team control left before unrestricted free agency; he'd be gone by the time the Habs want to be a playoff team again.
Oh yah obviously a 1st minimum. Appleton would be basically viewed as a piece to flip next year or the year after.
I'm just trying to see what potential trade partners exist to stimulate conversation.
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In terms of coaching connections... Since who coaches trust always matters.
Drouin
Rick Bowness in Winnipeg was an associate coach with Tampa during drouins entire tenure. If the relationship was good or bad dunno.
One of his assistant coaches from Halifax days is an assistant with the Rangers now. But a big city really doesn't seem like the best option for Drouin.
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Hoffmann
Well obviously some issues here...
Can't imagine anyone from Ottawa days has much good to say. I remember it going well in St Louis.
Luke Richardson coached him in AHL when Hoffmann led the baby sens in scoring and in Montreal. But Chicago can't be interested obviously.
If it wasn't all bad in St. Louis... They may need help but... otherwise their old assistant Jim Montgomery is in Boston?
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Hoffmann/Dadanov from Florida days
Both scored a ton in 18-19 together.
Coaches from that team are now assistants with Detroit, Ottawa (lol for both them), Seattle.
Then there was a huge overhaul of coaching staff that next season... Season after both were out of Florida so I don't think that next crew likes them.
I don't think Detroit is buying yet... But Seattle? Maybe one of Hoffmann or Dadanov could find a home with a good word from Paul MacFarland? Anyone know of the relationship there?
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Josh Anderson
Torts: good ol'torts had Anderson when he neted 27 but also when he got traded to the Habs for Domi. Plus Philly likely isn't buying... But maybe they will go crazy! Fletcher time baby?
Josh Bednar: yah so Bednar was Anderson's head coach in Lake Erie in 15-16... One of the assistants from that team is also with Colorado. Maaaaaybe they call us at the deadline again? Perhaps something could work if we take umm... Erik Johnson, trade them Anderson then retain on Edmonston?
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So... Some trade deadline conversation anyone? I know it's early but whatever
The guys we 100% expect to see moved if there is a buyer... are.
Expiring Contracts:
Drouin/Byron: if either look like they can skate again.
Dadanov: if he... Actually looks like he's an NHLr again
Monahan: assuming he's healthy.. he'll go for a good price.
Then other possibilities...
2y:
Mike Hoffmann - i think he is too pricey and inconsistent for 2 years. Next year if he doesn't suck he'll go.
Wideman - doubt it but who knows teams love playoff defense depth.
Edmonston - honestly doubt it. Don't think he's played well enough for a team to bite. Injury problems with another year left. Also Habs may want to keep the vet around the young guys.
Longer term:
Anderson - value is down but teams were interested... Maybe Habs more willing to sell?
basically... With for the majority of guys we want moved (Hoffmann, Dadanov, Drouin). We are looking for a trade partner that needs scoring. So I'm going to focus on forwards.
Monahan to a team with center depth issues.
Anderson well that's a different conversation completely.
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Quick glance potential partners with scoring issues.
Currently bubble who are all in: Calgary, Carolina, Washington.
Currently bubble who may buy: Nashville.
Teams that look solid but may want offense: Winnipeg.
Others: I imagine Colorado will just wait out injuries and that Minnesota is coasting during the Suter/Parise cap hell seasons.
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Winnipeg: they will get Ehlers and Appleton back but I think they'd want another forward incase of a top six injury. They have the cap space. They really heavily dedicate their top six to offensive zone starts and their bottom six to defensive zone starts.
However some advanced stats indicate they may be better served upgrading one of the wingers they always start in the defensive zone ie: Morgan Barron or Saku Maenalanen.
I think you see the team maybe move Mason Appleton when healthy and that would set them up with almost 5M in free cap for a big forward pickup.
The way they give their top six heavy offensive zone starts could benefit guys like Hoffmann or Drouin/Dadanov (if they are relevant by then).
Hell maybe they will think bringing Drouin in will help convince Dubois the bright lights aren't great hahaha.
Maybe a larger deal could be possible here.
MTL: Drouin + Monahan retained 50%.
WIN: Appleton + picks and whatever
Though given Winnipeg's fragile LR... A Drouin or Hoffmann may not be very intriguing haha.
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Nashville: they don't really have the expiring contracts to be a good seller this year. So I think they make moves to try and compete. Minnesota will lose their spot in the central to Colorado... But I could see one of Dallas or Winnipeg's resurgence not continuing. If that happens Nashville definitely buys.
They'd want a top six winger to push Colton Sissons down. Sissons has taken a lot of draws but Grandlund/Johansen I imagine are their 1/2 centers. Grandlund just sucks as faceoffs so maybe Sissons has been taking some for him?
Regardless I really think Monahan could end up in Nashville. Solid fit. Lower chance they take Drouin on a bargain deal if they want to make a move but not spend much.
No solid ties between the other guys to Poille or Hynes.
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Calgary: there is history between our teams and they have lots of picks. But none of the expiring wingers fit a Suter team and they have great center depth. Maybe Anderson? His contract fits the window of their team and I could see a world where a Suter system would give him the structure to be more consistent. Were they interested before?
They'd have to move Lucic to a different team (m-ntc so won't be us). Which they have the assets to do. Or maybe theres a Blake Coleman - Anderson deal of some kind? Not sure what that'd look like...
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Washington: injuries galore. Wilson will be back soon at least well before trade deadline. Backstrom might be back... Lord only knows there? Connor Brown won't be back till playoffs most likely. Haglein is done I think.
Honestly, they likely will be doing better when Kuemper, Wilson and Orlov are back. They'd need to see Pitts or one of the NY teams fall back. Looks like Backstrom is coming back and not Kucheroving it... They will be right up against the cap.
Basically think they will just wait out injuries and not buy.
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Carolina: lol. Hard to see this happening. But the waiver claim was with Bergevin so maybe it's okay now?
Basically they are waiting on Patches? Should be back in February... If it is longer it could go past the march trade deadline but I can't imagine patches will take until late April? He always beat rehab times here.
So I think they aren't actually an option.
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In the end of my lengthy exercise.
I'm thinking a Nashville or Winnipeg could be prime Monahan destinations.
Winnipeg may also be our best shot at interest in another of our rental options.
Then Calgary maybe wants Anderson? Lol.
What do you all think?
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Have watched a lot of Oilers games and Puljiujarvi is shocking in how he kills chances.
He just doesn't receive passes because he seems to be not expecting them? Fans on shots... Just randomly loses the puck. Passes to nothing...
It's all very odd to watch. I don't know if it's a hockey IQ thing or just mentally he's checked out completely.
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48 minutes ago, dlbalr said:
The Habs have moved Gallagher to IR which opens up a roster spot. That tells me at least one of Drouin/Hoffman is in tomorrow.
What's the current story with Drouin?
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2 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:
I could not find anything newer from you on Lavoie, you usually have strong opinions on prospects... I tried taking your thought into consideration
Lavoie lacked compete in junior. To a shocking degree really. Didn't have the mentality or drive necessary to make it.
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22 hours ago, Commandant said:
Exactly.
These "hockeynow" sites seem to be really poor, of course with people like Dater and Jimmy Murphy at the top of the company, we shouldn't be surprised.
So did these guys get some venture capital to dump into all these sites? Then dumped it all into promoting them? They've just popped up out of nowhere and clutter my hockey news feed.
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Down to the AHL for sure. Let him get more game minutes on NA ice.
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Hearing Dadanov to IR?
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32 minutes ago, Commandant said:
I don't doubt that they will make the playoffs.
Its winning in the playoffs that is the question, and Samsonov/Murray is far from convincing for that.
Very fair. They really have resisted moving picks for goalies but betting on oft injured Mrazek and Murray has backfired so far.
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9 hours ago, Commandant said:
They lost to Montreal, Arizona, and Anaheim in October. I don't think even the most rational Leafs fan had them going 0 for 3 against us and the other two.
The basic idea going was... That game one of the season vs MTL is a crap shoot. Then the California roadtrip is always bad for them (us too). Plus the amount of games they played in short days.
Not to defend the Leafs but I think the media is blowing it up a bit.
In terms of their d... liligren is out and Sandin missed camp so he will take a bit to get into form. Holl does need to go though.
In terms of their bottom six. I feel they have solid bottom sixers just no one that can really jump onto the top six reliably.
Goaltending... Well they are one injury from disaster. But Samsonov has been good.
Basically they have flaws but they will rebound and be top three in our division come the end of November.
If they want a cup they need to get a backup goalie, another forward with offensive potential and change Holl into a useful body.
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10 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:
I think there is a strong chance that Mathews leaves for Arizona in 1.75 seasons.
The Leafs should genuinely go all in and burn picks and prospects to win now.
If not then the leafs should trade Mathews IMO and take the haul to retool.
If the losing streak grows long then I bet leafs fire Keefe and when that doesn’t help then Dubas gets canned too.
I think most aware Leafs realized October was a bad month for the team schedule wise and just wanted to go .500 this month... I'm sure they will be fine. Even if I enjoy them losing 😛
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Good lord! What happened!
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I thought the Canucks were realllly high on Rathbone?
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9 minutes ago, dlbalr said:
We can safely rule Teasdale off the recall list. He has been a healthy scratch more than he has played this season. Next on the recall list after Harvey-Pinard and Ylonen will be Stephens, Richard, and Belzile (not necessarily in that order).
Injuries really detailed Teasdale. He was so much fun to watch during his Memorial cup run. Thought he'd be an awesome 4th liner.
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Pitlick-Evans-Dadanov is one weird line
Permanent Trade Proposal Thread
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
Realistically our five rookie dmen... Where do they project?
1 pairing - Guhle
2 pairing - Barron/Harris
3 Pairing - Kovavic (have really not seen him enough to know)
Christ who knows - Xhejak
So for development we kinda want want a solid minute guy for the 1st pairing at least? Im not sure if either Edmonston is the best fit with his back issues. I'd say moving him now is for the best.