Wamsley01
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Posts posted by Wamsley01
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Who says that either is wrong?
Like said, completely different situations. Edm little chance, but the Habs still have a shot at playoffs. Only 4 poins back of 4th at the deadline. You people really think trading would be UFA's at the deadling when only 4 points out of 4th will help bring UFA's to Montreal?
The only thing I dislike aboot what Bob did is that I beleive he should end his policy on not negotiating contracts during the season.
The only reson why Edm was able to pull off the Smyth trade was because he had just refused Edm latest offer. Similarily I also beleive the same type policy also helped keep Tucker in T.O. Tucker resigned resonably and wasnt traded, but Smyth refused to sign and was dealt.
Now what will happen with Souray? Who knows, but Bob must have privately had some talks with him and his agent, if not that should probably change. Teams give up the advantage in contract negotiations when they actively refuse to talk during te reg season. It's truely a great leverage point to resign just before trade dead line, or you might get moved.
I'll tell you what brings Free Agents to a city. MONEY!
Havlat re-upped with Chicago not because they are a good team, but because they gave him 6 MILLION reasons to. He could have become a Free Agent after the year. Why play for Bill Wirtz and 7,000 empty seats? 6 MILLION dollars is why.
If you offer Daniel Briere 6 Million a year to play, he will listen. These guys do not play for discounts in their prime. Zdeno Chara and Marc Savard signed with an organization that dealt Joe Thornton away for nothing 5 months earlier. What did that say about the franchise? and why did that not affect their decision?
Here is your answer: 7.5 MILLION AND 5 MILLION reasons!!!
These players don't have any idea what each team is doing. They are concerned with themselves first and foremost. If Montreal offers Briere 6 Million a year and Detroit offers him 6 MIllion a year Detroit will probably win. But if Montreal offers 6.5 Million a year and Columbus offers 6 Million. You better believe he would be with the Habs.
MONEY is the biggest factor. Do not kid yourself.
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Edmonton and Montreal are not in the same situation at all.
Edmonton have no chance of making the playoffs.
Montreal has a really good chance of making it. The other teams are not that flashy either, Toronto, Carolina, Isles can all lose by themselves as much as Montreal can.
Even team with bigger flashy player are not that sure of making those playoffs.
I would have a big laught if the Isles or Atlanta not making playoffs after all they have given for just making it.
It is true that we are caught in between. Edmonton sold because they had no choice.
But IF...a big IF...But IF the goal is the Stanley Cup then this was a terrible decision.
The Habs are a real longshot to hoist it this year. So if you come to the decision that we are playing for a couple of home dates to line George Gilette's pockets than what type of moves should have been made?
1. Acquiring a Goaltender to get us there
2. A 1st/2nd line center
3. A puck moving defenseman
The Habs acquired none of these. So can we make the assumption that the goal is not the playoffs?
Now if the goal is rebuilding and forgetting this season then what type of moves should be made?
1. Trading Souray for prospects and picks
2. Trading Rivet for prospects and picks
OK, so the Habs did one of those. We must be rebuilding then. But with all the picks flying around a real rebuild would involve Souray right. So is the goal rebuilding?
What changes are going to be made for next year to turn an 8-10 seed into a contender?
Kostitsyn/Lapierre/Grabovski?
If we resign our Free Agents we will not be any different than we have been this year next season.
Is this progress? Should I begin my parade route in the next 10 years? Where is the direction?
These are Toronto Maple Leaf moves people. Would you like to wait another 25 years for a Stanley Cup in downtown Montreal? Trying to rebuild while sneaking in as an 8 seed who has no hope is pointless.
Resigning Souray/Bonk/Johnson is suicide!! If and when this team competes is when the Kids compete for a Cup and as good as Bonk/Johnson are, we need to develop the youth and see if we are close to competing.
We missed opportunity one to move forward yesterday. Opportunity 2 will come this summer.
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I think he just didn't get a good enough offer for Shelly. The Sharks were in it, but they needed a right side defenseman much more than a left side guy. It probably boiled down to paying what they did for Rivet, and balancing their defense a bit, or paying a lot more for Souray and still having no right handed shots on the blueline. Next in line was Anaheim and I think that Burke thought he could get Shelly at a bargain price (by this year's standards), but Gainey wouldn't budge. Burke is still living in the past and usually talks himself into a corner. He has been griping for years about the cost of rental players, and now he can't pony up for a decent one without looking like an idiot. I think Gainey was prepared to go either way with Souray, but didn't get an offer that made it worthwhile to move him.
Not a big deal. 90% of the time the teams that load up at the deadline are out by the second round, and few if any of the draft picks help the team down the road. Look what Atlanta traded Braydon Coburn for. He was 5th overall pick or something, and is still just 21. Jack Johnson was dealt before he even turned pro. Same with Ryan O'Marra.
But trading Jack Johnson and Braydon Coburn were really dumb mistakes. Jack Johnson will be an impact player in the NHL. Lombardi should be locked up for that heist.
and Couburn for Zhitnik....I would have traded Souray straight up for Coburn
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I don't know why this team plays with such a lack of urgency.
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Souray blah blah
You are right, I have said my piece. I will not talk about Souray anymore. At least the Leafs are getting spanked!
If we are going down, lets bring them with us
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I usually try and defend them but......I can do so no longer. They are both bad tonight period. I welcome the opportunity to see Josh Gorges next game.
And the goaltending??? I can't believe that Gainey did nothing to address that after Abby's play yesterday. I don't expect too much from Halak especially considering the team is doing nothing in front of him tonight.
As for the lack of trading Sourray, I was back and forth on whether to deal him or not for the last month but I came to one conclusion that I was happy with, it was simply as follows:
If you are going to keep him, make a couple of other moves (even if nothing huge, although smyth would've been nice) and supplement parts of the team to go for the playoffs. If you are going to do nothing and not add anything except a waiver goalie might as well deal him and cash in on the returns of the sellers market. To do neither is extremely frustrating.
I'd much rather get Briere for 6M then to re-sign Sourray for that.
At this point the only thing i can look forward to is getting a Briere, Smyth or a player of that ilk who has talent and work ethic and leadership as a UFA.
Yes, but even if we do sign Briere, we could have had something for Souray! If we miss the playoffs we get no satisfaction from this season and no satisfaction if Souray walks and no satisfaction because we have no cap space if Souray resigns. We took a Win/Win situation and created 3 no win situations???
Does this seem like the moves of a shrewd GM. I thought Gainey was, this is something Ferguson would do
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Very true, the playoffs would have been a bonus and we could still have our cake for next year. Now we will either pay through the nose for souray or lose him for nothing. With gutless moves like this we will never get the franchise players we need.
Now at best all we have to look forward to is a early playoff exit and the same next year.
I am caught between extremely disappointed and angry.
If we traded Souray for the future and missed the playoffs I would tune in next season and get excited about the development of a young team.
Not another season of this please!
I can't take the lack of creativity offensively, and the lack of passion.
Bring your lunch pail and bust your ass. And if you lose at least I know it is because that talent level is not there, not because you couldn't be bothered!
Remember the 2000 team that was coached by Vigneault and lost 4-500 games due to injuries and they almost made the playoffs, I think they missed by 2 points. We stunk, but they gave it there all every night.
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So when this team misses the playoffs will keeping Souray still be a "good move" ?
The thing that gets me, if they traded Souray I would look at this team and figure the season is over so if they go on a run it is gravy. Now, if they don't make the playoffs this season becomes a ######ing disaster.
So BOB, they better make the playoffs!!
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Well we do have Leighton and Gorges to help our drive
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Glad to see them come out with some fire tonight against a team who is way out of the race.
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I think Ryan Smyth is exactly the player the Habs needed if not for this year but for the next few years. Okay he is 31 but he still has legs. He likes to stand in front of the net, unlike everyone else on the team. He scores a lot of goals on the powerplay. Hope the habs sign him next year. Anyways as for Gainey stand pat attitude, I can't believe we couldn't get anything for Souray of substance. I still doubt the Habs will make the playoffs and if they do with the goalies we have we are going nowhere fast. I could be wrong. I don't know if Souray has told the club he will remain. Anyways
I think these moves are very short sighted. I just cannot see the upside to paying Souray 5-6 million a year.
And I also cannot believe that they could have gotten a good prospect and a first rounder at minimum and will now get nothing if he walks.
The only way this is worth it for the long term goals of the team in my eyes is to go out and win the Cup this season.
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Stubbs's Bleu, Blogue, Rouge: Fans waitin' got Leighton
I was impressed with the few minutes I saw from Leighton in a Predators uniform. I saw him in the OHL, in the summer of '98 (Back then I thought I was going to steal his OHL job, I thought my glove was way better! not kidding
) I was lucky to see him in the AHL as well, but that's been a while. Maybe I'm biased, but I don't think so.He is a good goalie. Too bad he's already written off without one single minute of icetime.
We are living in strange times.
If it can be any consolation, I am a fan.
Bienvenue.
:hlogo:
I am not writing him off. The argument is he does not help Montreal in any way this season.
To believe otherwise is ridiculously optimistic. When you need a stop gap solution at goalie and pick up a 25 year old who has been with 5 teams what is to be expected? A parade?
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What I don't like is how all the analysts and reporters on TSN are saying the Habs have no more shot at the playoffs whatsoever because they didn't jump on a goalie.
What you mean Glen "Leaf Fan" Healey, or Nick " Leaf fan" Kypreos or Pierre " Souray, Huet are not NHL players" McGuire?
They know just as much as you or I. Healey and McGuire said Montreal had no shot last year as well.
What has changed....nothing, they still know nothing!
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My biggest problem in doing nothing is that Bob has not shown us what the future of this team is.
He did not trade youth for this season's run or picks for a goaltender.
So yay he is rebuilding through youth.
But he did not trade Souray when everybody else was trading picks and prospects like crazy.
So yay we are going for the playoffs.
WHICH ONE IS IT?
I'll tell you what it is. It is the safe route.
Unless Halak is going to be our saviour how the Hell will Aebischer and Leighton get us into the dance?
There is no clear direction and that is what bothers me. How would trading a 3rd or 4th rounder for Cujo/Belfour hurt the youth movement? We are stuck in perpetual medicority.
And as far as the cap goes next season we will be in pretty good shape if we focus on our youth.
If we resign Bonk/Johnson and Souray what type of hope am I supposed to have going forward??
Another March/April slugfest for 8th again. Yay...sign me up!
Shit or get off the pot. Finishing in 9th place and letting Souray walk would be a disaster.
But now signing Souray puts us in mediocrity because we will be capped out.
That is why I am pissed
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Funny you ragging on the goalies, with your Avatar...Wamsley wasn't a star in this league either........
As a 9 year old he was my idol and followed my other heroes, Denis Herron and Richard Sevigny and preceded Steve Penney and finally Patrick Roy.
And if you look at his stats...they are not to bad. As a habs 72-36-16 and for his career 204-131-46.
So unless Bobby is 9 years old, it is probably moot.
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Those numbers are a bit dated, but compare them to the other Chicago goalies at the time. Like Jocelyn Thibault for instance. I bet Thibault's numbers were as bad or worse over the same period for the same team.
No one is asking or expecting Leighton to become the next Hasak or Vokoun. All he is being asked to do is back up the team's co-number one netminder, Aebisher, for the balance of the season while the other co-number one guy Huet recovers from injury.
The point is Thibault sucks. He is an average NHL goalie. He is no better than Yann Danis therefore if we improved it will not even be noticeable.
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Man, I watched him play those games for philly...he may be someday, but is not now an NHL caliber goalie....not even close.
I am once again very confused by our management's decisions. Conflicting and confusing at best.
I used to admonish Leaf fans for thinking everything they got back was a steal.
Last season Suglobov was a steal,
if Lou Lamierello gave him up for Ken Klee there was a reason.Thinking that Leighton is actually going to make a difference is worse.
Expect what he has delivered in the NHL. And hope for the best. Not the other way around.
He has 8 career wins in 43 starts. .900 SV% and a 3.00 Plus GAA.
And for every Dominik Hasek and Tomas Vokoun there are 50 guys who disappeared into the AHL never to appear again. I guess if we pick up a 5'7' forward I could say he could be a stud because of Martin St. Louis,
but the odds of that are about .5% and that may be high
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Halak can't "carry the load", and management doesn't expect him to. I would bet money that he goes back to Hamilton and Leighton and Aebisher share the load for the balance of the season and whatever playoff games they manage. Halak is a good young prospect, but when it comes to the crunch Carbo is going to go with the NHL tested guys, and David Aebischer and Michael Leighton are the best options there.
LOL, Leighton just got dumped by the worst team in the NHL and is on his 3rd team this year.
What are you smoking? If we run with Abby and Leighton we are finished.
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Ryan Smyth was too expensive for a rental, unless you make a deal to sign him long term.
We needed a solid vet goaltender since we lost Huet, but we didn't get it. That leaves us weak in goal, period.
If all they did was get Belfour for a pick, I would be happy. If they got Belfour and say, Yannic, I would be very happy.
I am very worried about the Islanders though. They just got way better and it will be tough to beat them out for a spot. Even the leaf's improved, since Yannic will help them a great deal, but I am not sure that was enough if Raycroft plays like he did last night...
Yanic Perrault is not a game changing player. He is a great luxury and complimentary player on a contending team because he is such a great faceoff weapon. But we know first hand that he is not going to make anybody around him better and he does not impact weak teams to make them great teams.
He did not make Phoenix any better, he did not stop us from getting spanked in the playoffs a couple of times. But it is a typical Toronto move, trade 1 of your depth prospects and a 2nd rounder for a guy who might get you a couple of home playoff dates.
And that is a big gamble by the Isles. If he does not resign that will blow up in their face. But a trip to the Conference Finals helps their deteriorating fanbase, a trip to the Conference Finals does nothing for Montreal.
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We added a young, healthy, NHL experienced defenseman in place of an injury plagued Craig Rivet, and a young, healthy, NHL experienced netminder to fill in for Cristobal Huet. The improvement may be marginal, but the team is still better than it was a couple of days ago.
If you think Gorges and Leighton improve our team you are kidding yourself.
Would San Jose trade a kid and a 1st for Craig Rivet if he was that good?
Leighton just passed through waivers and is on his 4th team at 25 years of age.
Gainey is essentially telling the guys in the room it is on you.
That would be an acceptable stance, but our goaltending is a small concern.
If Halak can not carry the load the playoffs are gone, and we have not changed the face of this 7-9th place team for next season.
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Well, the Leafs made a small upgrade with Yanic.. but worse, the Islanders got Ryan Smyth!
Wow.. we might be on the outside looking in with them getting better and us having Abbey as our goalie...
Just heard the price for Smyth.. steep!
Still, if we added a vet goalie on the cheap, we would be okay...
WHAAT?
Talk about dropping a bomb on the trade deadline!
Man would it be nice to have him. The Habs better tear off a big win streak.
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My thoughts exactly, Wamsley...If we are going for it....what did we add to achieve that??
The only thing that would rationalize this for me is if Souray has somehow committed to Gainey to stay in Montreal. If he has not I really do not get what they are doing. Surely they are not just making a run to make the playoffs. Does Gainey believe that this core can win it?
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Well, if we do not make the playoffs and Souray walks....THIS WILL BE A HUGE MISTAKE!
Either you are going for it or rebuilding....don't really understand the rationale behind today
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So by the looks of it, Bob is not selling or buying?
We pick up a backup goalie of waivers who is no better than the rookie we have been playing or the starter in the AHL? WTF is going on?
And can you believe that Yanic Perreault fetched a 2nd rounder and Brendan Bell???????
The guy was a FREE AGENT 2 months AGO??? Gotta love the Leafs!
Who made the right decision-Gainey or Kevin Lowe?
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted · Edited by Wamsley01
Yes, we developed him and we were patient with him as he matured and you do not want to lose players like that. But he is having a career season. He is 3 goals away from breaking an NHL record for goals by a defenseman!!!!!!! He will not repeat this again next year! Would you pay Souray 5 Million a year for this production every year? Maybe, but his defensive shortcomings suggest otherwise.
Look at McCabe last season. 68 points in 73 games (45 PP points) in a contract year. Career season. This season 46 points in 64 games (26 PP points). The only difference in his game being that the scouting reports have taken away the point shot and he has 20 less PP points. Sound familiar?
In the New NHL it is suicide to pay somebody more than they are producing. In order for Souray to be a smart signing at 5 million a year he needs to produce at the same pace as this year for the duration of the contract!! We already have Kovalev and Koivu who do not produce at the rate they are paid. And we wonder why we go through the same motions every year???
If he does not replicate 2006, we will be making a big Cap mistake. It is not easy being a GM and the good ones like Lameirello cut bait on guys like Guerin/Holik when he feels there demands outweigh their worth.
The margin of error in the new NHL is razor thin. Sheldon's new contract is screaming "ALBATROSS" and some of us think this is what he will give us every year.
Did everybody forget about a guy named Jose Theodore?
Think about the next 5 years not the next 20 games. The jury is out on this season and it says that there wil be no parade on St. Catherines this year. So why think short term.
We have become the Montreal Maple Leafs.