hab29RETIRED
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Posts posted by hab29RETIRED
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Hey where is alex daigle we could bring him in, french highly skilled. What could go wrong?
What could go wrong, nothing major, other then he may decide to wear a nurse's uniform rather then his habs jersey
The guy that should be in habs uniform is Ovechkin
Why, why, why does a guy like Ovechkin have to be wasted away in a market like washington :puke: :puke:
I think the habs should force Kostitysn to watch 10 hours of Ovechkin videos and maybe, just maybe he may learn that shooting often and from everywhere, driving hard for the net, andh being more physical is a good thing and
can actually be accomplished by a russian -
http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/273394.html
Burrows élimine les Blues
...
I was kinda calmed down, but I'm upset again.
LOL would you read tomorrow : Plekanec élimine les Bruins?
nah.
The Don Cherry in me says that there is a really really small minority of european players who care enough about the Cup and UNDERSTANDS what it means to step it up during the playoffs.
However, on the other hand, a majority of NA players understand that from the start. Mostly canadian players. Mostly if they're from a place where STANLEY CUP is big.
Where is Burrows from?
ok, argue alone, I'm out of it, I'm just stirring shit and bringing nothing new...
Actually, I think you are wrong in saying Pleks doesn't care. If you hear him in interviews he is pretty hard on himself. His issue seems to be more a real lack of confidence and as a result pressing and making stupid mistakes.
I'd say the same for Higgins. After Gainey put him on the 4th line he responded playing really good hockey defensively and working like a dog on the penalty kill.
BTW, so far the five goals the habs scored were by...... a russian (2 by Kovolev), a swiss (Weber) and an american (2 by Higgins). Despite the Lapierre, Latendresse, Kostopolous line being solid down the stretch, in this series, all of the battling they have done is behind the net. Latnedresse has had a hell of a issue with getting his shots on the net or even by the Bruins D. Is it becuase they don't care, no, I think its becuase of the same issue as Higgins and Pleks have, pressing too hard and struggling with their confidence.
BTW, Who is Burrows playing with.....yeo, 2 swedes.
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Well I kept saying Carbo wasnt at fault for the team's collapse. Now that Gainey got behind the bench and the usual suspects haven't got any better, I hope fans will open their eyes. Problem is: if Carbo wasnt to blame because there's only so much a coach can do, that blame suddenly falls on Gainey's lap because he decided to side with his players rather than his coach; and now his players are heading for a 1st round sweep.
Fact it: Gainey seemed to have ignored what Carbo as been saying all season long (players are not listening, etc.) and, lo and behold, Gainey comes to the same conclusion after Game 2. There is something wrong there.
Of course mistakes are part of the job. You dont make omelets without breaking eggs. BUT in Gainey's case the good moves are harder to find than the bad ones. There's Kovalev and... help me out here. Tangs for pick, Lang for pick. That's the two good ones I can think of. Ultimately, a GM is judged by the results his team gets. Since Gainey took over, we missed the playoffs once, lost in round 1 once (when Gainey was coach) and won twice (two 7-games series vs Boston) and lost in round 2 twice (only 1 win in 9 games).
Remember that under Houle we still made the playoff 3 times in 5 years and won 1 round. Now in 5 years under Gainey we made the playoffs 4 years and won 2 rounds. It's hard to consider this a huge success.
How can you even compare Houle to Gainey
Are you on Crack????
Gainey inherited a mess from Houle/Savard (savard at least improved a bit on the mess that Houle left, but it was still pretty much a minor league lineup. The team Houle inherited had Roy, Rechhi, Damphouse, Muller, Schneider, Odelin, Keane, Brisbois, et el and Koivu waiting in the wings.
Houle inherited a pretty damn good lineup, which was a few years removed from a cup victory. He proceeded to rip apart that team and transform into a minor league lineup. With the exception of his Muller/Schneider trade for Turgeon/Malakhov, almost every move he made was incredibly idiotic.
Gainey inherited Koivu, Theodoree, Brisebois and spare parts.
Houle took a pretty decent lineup and proceeded to send the habs into its darkest years since before WWII. Even his one redeeming trade (Turgeon), was reversed when he moved him to St Louis for Corson. If bringing back that bum wasn't bad enough he decided to bring back Stephanie as well. Comparing Houle to Gainey is like comparing a new lambergini to a old beaten ford pinto (not even a pinto in good condition!!!), or Angelina Jolie to Rosanne Barr, or Wayne Gretzky to Ketih Gretzky, I could go on, but I think you should get the picture by now.
Your comparing apples to oranges when you look at their records - you have to look at the lineup they inherited and the guys drafted during their regimes. It is ignorant to compare their playoff records which is skewed by the lineups they inherited - not by what they actually accomplished on their own!!
Or is your assessment of Gainey and Houle based on Gainey being an Anglo and Houle being a francophone????
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Brian Burke
http://blogues.cyberpresse.ca/lnh/?p=1053
it's in French, it doesn't say much... but HE'S SAYING OUT LOUD THAT HE'S GONNA DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO GET TAVARES.
Of course every GM will do so too.
And every GM, including Burke, know that it won't happen.
BUT BURKE WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE IN HOCKEY KNOWS IT.
Some Dofus Habs fans will think, with that in mind, that because we didn't hear anything about Silent Bob, that Silent Bob isn't doing anything...
so my point? our next GM, if it changes, need to be a loud mouth, if we want some stability.
otherwise people won't know he's active... just like Silent Bob.
Nope, wouldn't take Burke over Gainey - ever. Burke inherited a loaded team and really only made 3 significant moves, two of which were handed to him (Edmonton moved Pronger way too fast after he wanted out, and he pretty much got Scott Neidemeyer, since the ducks already had his brother Rob). He created serious cap issues for the ducks before bolting for Toronto and left Vanouver a mess as well.
As I have said in numerous posts, Gainey has made numerous mistakes, but he has also made some very astute decisions. i also don't see anyone who could come into the montreal market and do as good of a job, considering the joy is dealing with the Montreal media.
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I think you need to look from around 2003 forward, which is around the time Timmins took over. While they still have made some big mistakes - especially in 2003, the drafting prior to Timmins was horrendous! Savard's last few years, were pretty lousy and Houle's staff was horrible!!
I'd like to add: PRAYI've been doing that the past few weeks, hasn't seemed to have helped
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Just a terrific, well-reasoned post!!! (Although I disagree about keeping Gainey.)
I think Gainey has made a ton of mistakes, but at least he usually doesn't panic. I just don't see another viable option at GM - particularly with the language issue. I really don't want Gauthier in that role. his problem is that I think he has a tendency to be too loyal to his players and players he is familiar with. He also tends to put blinders when he thinks he is right. But, again, who else do you bring in. With the rabid media in Montreal, you need someone who can be a calming influence.
The big question is who do you bring in as coach??? I REALLY don't want to see Hartley, just bcoz he is french. He is a lousy coach and won in spite himself with a loaded lineup in Colorado. But hasn't done anything since. I think i'd rather even have Patrick Roy over him - even though he probably isn't ready either.
Personlaly, from the available coaches, I like Laviolette, but he is not french. I really wish that Gainey had hired Andy Murrey as a head coach instead of a consultant a few years back. He would have been the first career, NHL experienced coach the Habs had since Demers.
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See, it's comments like this that discourage me from participating in these boards. Someone who doesn't agree with you gets called a name, "bandwagon assholes." I suppose YOUR opinion is the RIGHT one, correct?
I also happen to disagree with you and am willing to bet have been a fan MUCH longer than you (I'm 58). I think Gainey has to go because of a SERIES of mistakes: Price, Streit, Huet, Carbonneau, Ryder, Ribeiro and not because of the poor team performance this year. Also, I'll repeat what I've said earlier: why is Price ANNOINTED to the Habs job? Even Fisher has been questioning this throughout the year. Why doesn't PERFORMANCE determine who plays? In all my years rooting for the Habs, I've never seen something like this.
+1
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Heres what I do. Sign F. Beachemin and Leopold to contacts for $3 Million each. Sign a Veteran Goalie if ya can for say $2 Million . Price needs this. Say Dwaye Roloson whos been awesome in Edmonton
Make a trade with Pittsbrgh who needs wingers to play with Malkin and Crosby. Staal maybe available.
So we send Higgins, PK Sbban, Halak and maybe a pick for Staal. Or thereaboyts anyways. I picked Halak as they traded for Garon at the deadline. Might send S Kostitsyn or D'Agostini instead. Ya get the idea
Lang, Kovalev, Saks, Boillon, Dandealt, Chips all can walk. Might keep Saks if he takes $3.0 Million. If so take away Metropolit. That makes for great depth at Centre. For now we take Metropolit
Tangay $4.5 Staal $4.0 S Kostitsyn $0.7
A Kostitsyn $3.2 Plekanec $3.2 DAgostini $0.7
Pacioretty $0.9 Lapierre $0.8 Kostoplos $1.0
Latendresse $1.00 Metropolit $1.0 Laraqe $1.2
G Stewart $0.5
Markov $5.75 Komiarek $3.75
Hamrlik $5.25 O'Bryne $0.75
Leopold $3.00 Beachemin $3.0
Weber $0.70
Price $2.3
D Roloson $2.0
This solves the problem of mobile defensman in Leopold. Defensive Defensman in Beachemin. O' Bryne and Weber can battle for the 6th and 7th spots
Veteran Goalie for Price to help him.
Bigger at Centre with Staal.
Adds massive playoff experience with Beachemin, Leopold and Staal
Leaves somewhere between $5 and $7 Million cap room, which I estimate at $55 Million dollars. Which means a Forward Free agent might also be grabbed for some depth or scoring. Can be altered if Saks stays with a smaller salary
First off all, talk out of Edmonton is that it will take anywhere between $4M to 5.5M to sign Roloson - who still sees himself as a starter. Why would he accept less money and accept a role where he is probably going to be a backup????
Secondly, while I'd love to have Stall, I think you are giving away the bank. I'd try to Higgins over Dags and really wouldn't want to give up Subban, who could be the puck moving D we desperately need. I'd rather offer Pleks, Dags another wing prospect or Fisher.
Third, I'd love to get Komisarik for $3.75M, but that ain't happening unless we offer him a front loaded 10 year deal (which I wouldn't be opposed to offering him, but for some reason, the Habs don't seem to like giving long term deals.
Fourth, Lattendresse is a RFA and will probably be seeking more then $1M - I'd try and lock him up long term again, by front loading the contract, and offering him more then he is worth now, but less then what he will probably be worth in 3 or 4 years.
5th, Laraque is actually at $1.5M for another couple of years - if I could I'd try and dump him. WAY too much money to be paying a guy who can't take a regular shift.
6th regarding the D, I think there is an out clause/period in Hamrlik's NTC, if so I'd try and move him. It sounds like Leopold will be staying in Calgary and I'd really like the habs to make a major push for Emelin. I really don't want to see O'Byrne back. He may pan out yet, but they guy justs seems STUPID! Beauchiman sounds like a great option, but I think he will be offered more then $3M.
7th, I really don't think you can let Kovy go, IF he is willing to take a discount, bcoz, he suppodly loves playing in Montreal. I think he would make a great 2nd line winger. We just have too much youth on the wing that I'd rather have someone who can take the pressure off of them. Of course that is ONLY if he is willing to take a discount. If we do move Pleks, I'd also like to keep Koivu as a second line centre - again ONLY at a reduced rate.
8th, It sounds like Chelios may be done in Detroit. I'd try and bring him in as 7th D to teach the kids about work ethic and commitment to training. For now, he could be kind of a playing defence coach and down the line, could become a full-time coach for the defence - which is a MUCH better option then the suggested Brisbois assume that role. BRISEBOIS???
9) I think you have to be careful in pecilling in MaxPac into the lineup unless he has a strong camp. Moroever, I really don't want him playing with Lapierre and Kosto - definitely not Kosto for sure!! He is an offensive guy, he should play with guys with skill and be the net crasher with guys who can set him up.
My ideal situation would be to really make a move for one of the big 2 in Pittsburgh. Malkin will want a raise when his contract is up (2 years?). They could be in a similar situation as Tampa was with too much money tied up in 3-4 players. In another 2 years, can they afford to have around $16-17M tied up in two players, when Stall maybe a better more affordable #2 option at centre???? To me to get that top teir centre, I'd be willing to move AK46, SK74, Pleks and another prospect like Fisher. I'd much rather go after young guys like a Malkin/Crosby/Carter then Lecavalier who will be a $7.7M/yr cap hit until he is over 40 years old. I would have loved to have Vinny if he had waited a year and became a UFA, but not by being tied to him at that price until he is 40.
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Ask Red Wings fans that question. This anti-Euro stuff is just pure garbage. There have been tons of floater North Americans over the years, just as there have been great Euro players. There are North Americans who play just for the money too. There are 30 teams in the NHL town, it would be impossible and irresponsible for the Canadiens not to go outside the province or country to find talent. The Canadiens try to bring in the best talent possible. It's the job of the organization to win games, not to pump up local pride. Yes, that's how it worked in the old days, but doing business that way just isn't going to get it done in this era. Would I love for the Habs to have a French Candian star and for the Jackets to develop a star from Ohio? Of course I would. I will root for those teams no matter who is playing for them and I don't give a damn where the players are from. You know I'm a patriotic guy, so you can't just say that I have no pride.
Maybe weeding out players who are in it for the money, North American and European alike, can be a way the KHL can benefit the NHL. If they can prove to be a viable league with big money, they'll be able to attract people who aren't in it to win it.
+1
Just ice a friggin winner. I don't care if we find pygmies that can skate - just start winning again damnit
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The guy has had 4 77+ point seasons. Had he not been injured this year, he'd be our leading scorer. To offer him 3.5 million$ would be a slap in the face!
Thansk the hockey gods you aren't the GM!!
Talk to Calgary about Tanguay. He has not produced in the playoffs since leaving Colorado. Anything more the $4M is too much for a guy who hasn't been producing in the clutch and has had the soft label on him for the last 3-4 years. His current $5.25M is certainly WAY more then he is worth.
Haven't you been complaining about the lack of toughness on the habs???
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So little loyalty, hab29 retired change your name you are disgrace to kenny. Patrick could not win this series. Bob made the best decisions with what he had. You may not realize this but he has not got anybody to put out there. we lost 6 top people. Last year they said those fing Ruins lost because Chara was not 100% and bergeron was out. How about half your offence becase that is what we had.
We had a shit year agreed we did everything we could including firing a coach who had the ch tattooed on his chest. Now you want to throw Bob overboard you guys are a joke. Go look in the dictionary what it means to be a habs fan. We are not the fing leafs we don't throw everyone under the bus. we may lose but we do it with style and class not like a bunch of jackals all killing each other. We take it hard and we remember and we come back to make you wish you had never been born, now all you real habs fans ACT like it dammit. Treat this team with respect, not the results we wanted but dammit they are OUR team. till the day i die.
When did I say I wanted to get rid of Bob???? What I said that he made poor decisions during this series. I also think he made a major mistake in how he handled free agents this year by not renegotiating during the year (the same way he made the mistake of not signing Streit last year during the season). Streit even said that if the habs had offered a long term deal in Nov/Dec, he probably would have signed for $2m.
Just because BOB GAINEY made the decisions, doesn't mean I have to like his decisions or agree with them!!! I do have my own brain and not going to agree blindly with every decsion he makes just because he is bob gainey. IMO he didn't have the right line combos for success, his strategy of trying to out hit the big bad bruins was a bad one (compared to the last regular season game, when it was the bruins who were taking stupid penalties).
Lastly, his decision to start Price who is clearly off his game. Mentally, and technically he is messed up right now. Maybe long term he will be stonger for it. But it could end up ruining him long term.
As much as I hated Ribeiro, my jaw dropped when I heard all we got was a washed up defensemen that probably wouldn't have cracked Dallas's lineup.
I also wanted to throw my glass at the TV when the habs picked Kostitysn over Getzlaf and my brother was pissed that the habs didn't take Parise.
I was pissed when the picked Fisher as high as they did, bcoz, he probably could have been picked up in the second round, as he was rated MUCh lower then where the habs picked him.
However, I still think Gainey is the best choice to lead this team. I became a habs fan while growing up during the 70's and remember all the hoopla over Bossy and was pissed that the habs didn't take him, or that upon his retirement, Pollack had picked Grundmen as his succesor, when Bowman left a year later, I was pissed, but does that mean that i didn't like Pollack. He was one of the best GM's in history, but that doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes.
When Savard traded Lemieux for Ms. Sylvie Turgeon, i was pissed, just as i was pissed when he gave away Chelios, for a guy the habs should have drafted a decade earlier. I still think Savard was one of the better GM's the habs had. he also made mistakes.
Similarly, this year, it was Gainey the GM making game decions rather then Gainey the coach - and he made some terrible decsions. As GM he sees price as the future, even though it was pretty obvious, Price didn't appear to have confidence - look at his body language, positioning, rebound control - he wanted to go with his annointed future goalie. As a GM, he signed Laraque to a ridciculous contract in a cap system, and used him WAY more then he should have as a coach. Nobody is going to convince me that these decisions were not mistakes - even if it was #23, past captain and current GM of the Habs who made those decisions.
Having said all that, do I think Gainey should be dumped - definitely no. He is better then the dark years under Tremblay and HOule (BTW, according to your logic since Houle and Tremblay were part of the Dynasties of the 70's, no one should criticize them either).
However, I do hope he learns a lesson from some of his decisions this year, because this year he made more bad decisions then good ones. It was a bad year all around where everything that could have gone wrong did.
Do I think Carey Price is to blame for these three losses??? No, Do I think we could have won the series with all the injuries we had to deal with (game 1 & 2 were bad enough, and then we lost Tanguay and Schneider)??? Most likely not - but this is the Bruins, and anything can happen. And for it too happen in these circumstances your goalie HAS to be your best player. And it was apparent that while Price wasn't the reason for us losing, HE COULDN"T POSSIBLY BE THE REASON THAT WE MAY WIN, given the way he was playing.
You still need to make decisions by giving your best players a chance to be your best players. Which is why I think not using Koivu-Tangauay-Kovelev, prevented the habs a legit chance to generate more offence in games 1 & 2. I also think Halak DESERVED to start more then Price - especially tonight. Gainey seemed to be starting Price HOPING that he would turn it around, when all signs are that Price is not on his game - not mentally, not technically. 21 year old kids with confidence problems, don't suddenly turn it around overnight!!
And as far as my loyalty, I've been a habs fan since I got into hockey, and despite living in the West have remained a habs fan through thick and thin - through the bumbling Grundman years and through the ridicilously stupid idiotic incompetence of the Ronald Corey/Rejean Houle/Mario Tremblay years. I remember when a friend told me that the Canadiens traded Roy and Mike Keane to the Avalanche I thought Ok, this is not good, but at least we just picked up Sakic, Forsburg, Kamensky or Ozolinsh. I was speachless wehn I heard what the return was. And through those miserably horrible years under those three stooges, I still rooted for the habs and still listened to every game on radio-canada, bcoz, that was the only option in the west to follow the habs, even though the only french I know are some hockey phrases.
But I guess its disloyal to be pissed of that your team stunk for most of the year and looked like they gave up in the the 3rd period in what was the most important game of the year, or that the GM/Coach was to blind in his faith that his annointed starter would get it together.
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Gotta think Komisarek isn't worth more than $4 Million. Regardless of whether he had a bad season or not, he provides nothing in the way off offence.
Not like hes a great defensive defensman either. If he wants more, F**k him. Hes not worth it
If Ryder can get $4M, Komisarik will get $6M. We paid $5.7M to Hamrlik.
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With all the disasters during the 100th year celebration, I'm really worried about where we go from here and can we improve next year.
I think Gainey's decison of letting so many UFA's and RFA's play out their contracts instead of negotiating during the year is really going to handcuff us next year.
Which probably means the few guys that are willing to play here will probably be overpaid and riidicoulous contracts like Laraque was given - $1.5/yr over 3 yrs for a guy who shouldn't be playing more then 5 minutes a game??
:puke: Here are the issues I see of guys that we will lose for NOTHING:
1) Komisorik - I really don't think the habs can afford to lose komisarik - he should have been signed during the year. He'll probably get close to $6M on the open market, so he is probably gone.
2) Koivu - If we had another centre, i'd say let Koivu walk, but who is going to replace him even as a 2nd line centre???
3) Tanguay - They will probably over pay Tangauy to keep him bcoz he is french - but really he doesn't deserve over $3.5M - I could even live with $4M, just bcoz they will have trouble signing anyone else.
4) Kovelev - Kovy, is a guy I wish they had traded, but if he actually wants to come back at a reduced rate, I'd take him - again, bcoz, I don't see anyone better willing to sign.
5) Schneider - I wouldn't mind seeing him back on a 1 yr deal, if he is willing to sign a Brisbiois deal under $2M.
6) Higgins - is an RFA - do we try and lock him up long term, or use him as trade bait??? Personlly I want to keep him, but will he sign a longer term deal considering his bargaining power is going to be low after this year. He'll porbably want a 1 or 2 yr deal to take him to UFA status. I'm sick of signing guys for the Ryder type 1 yr deals.
7) Pleks - If you don't keep Koivu and can't get another real centre - can you afford not to sign him up long term??? With the year he had, he probably is also going to be looking for a 1 or 2 year deal to take him to when he is a UFA.
8) Lang - he is a guy I'd like to re-sign - but only for a fraction of his $5M salary. Is he worth a risk at his age and the injury he is coming off???
9) They could try and trade for Vinny and get a 4-5 good years from in the short term out of him, but do you want a cap hit of $7.72M for a guy when he is 40 years old??? Personlly I'd like to see the has try to go after one of the 3 centres in Pittsburgh. They are very deep in impact centres (Malkin, Crosby, Stall), and could use some wingers which we are fairly deep on and over the long term, I can't seem them being able to pay 3 centres of that calibare market rates.
10) That brings us to my nightmare. The UFA crop has some guys that are enticing - Bowmester, Hossa, Gaborik, Havlet. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure, neither of these guys want anything to do with Montreal.
11) The only thing to look forward to is that we could get Emelin on D. Unfortunately other D prospects like McDonough and Subban aren't going to be ready for a few more years.
12) What do we do about Goaltending??? The halak, Price tandam really didn't work out. Do we get Price a vetern and if so who??? Do we send Price home with some help over the summer??? Or risk going with the same tandem next year??? I really wish they gave Halak more of a chance this year. You never know, he could turn out to be a Hasek or Vokum who both ended up becoming better then the goalies they were backing up.
13) Lastly who manages the team - or I guess the first question is who owns it???? I'd like to see Gainey back despite all of my critism of him the past month. He is the most stable guy we had in the last 16 years. But who coaches??? I really don't see any good experiened french coaches and not sure if I'm sold on Lever. Personally I'd like Laviolette, but he is not french, so despite the fact he is probably the best available coach out there, he probably won't even be considered.
So if we do lose our UFA's, can't sign any decent Free agents or swing a trade for a true #1 centre, are we going to be any better next year???? Other teams have been able to turn it around quick, because of their ability to attract key free agents to complement their home grown talent (i.e. Philly/Boston), but I can't see us being able to do that.
Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but at the start of the year, this was supposed to be our year, our window of oppertunity before we had so many UFA's, and that window of oppertunity it just slammed shut.
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Blame Blame Blame fire gainey trade everyone. Real smart. The team is beat up markov lang breezy tanguay shnides boullion Ya think that might have something to do with it? Carey price played a decent game he needs a little time. Bob is trying to show him we have faith in him and he is not costing us these games. 5 shots in the 3rd period? You expect maybe he should score the goals as well. Right now this team does not have the manpower to win. It is that simple. If we had a full load then you could say this is wrong or that is wrong but guys in the press box arent going to win the game for you. Anyway it looks like we are done for the year, but lets win the next game.
To: Bob
from: The real fans
keep going we are behind you all the way don't listen to the bandwagon assholes.
Yeah the manpower situation was bad, but a coach still has to make do and make the right decisions with what he has to work with. Gainey made too many bad decisions during these series. We probably would have lost given all the guys that are out, but to be swept hurts.
I bet even outgoing Gillet is pissed that Gainey probably cost him revenue from an extra home date.
The sad part is that the team has real potential to get a lot worse over the summer
:puke: -
I just don't see blaming Price for this particular loss. Guess I'm nuts.
The Bruins just have much stronger defensive coverage. Even when we 'dominate' them as we did for the first half, not that many serious scoring chances are generated. The puck flies around but tends not to get on net. When they start pressuring us, though, they tend to get quality chances. Note, also, that Thomas gave up two questionable goals. It's not like the Habs got badly outgoaltended tonight.
As for the idea of firing Gainey as GENERAL MANAGER because of decisions he makes as COACH...for Pete's sake. I have a better idea: rational fan commentary.
Another observation. Koivu did not elevate his game for this series. He looked just as slow in these three games as he's looked for the entire second half.
I love the guy, but he's done.
I put this one on Bob. Price had no business playing tonight.
Koivu is now a #2/#3 guy asked to be the goto guy. You can't blame Koivu for that. He wasn't even on the ice to start the PP's. WTF was Pleks doing starting both PP's???
Just terrible coaching and decsiions by Gainey compounded by terrible decisions all night by the Dmen. The D is not playing well, the team is having trouble scoring and you dress Laraque, Stewart, Kostopolous, Metrolpolit. YOur missing Schneider and Tangauy who are key cogs to your PP and Stewart or Laraque are playing over SK74??? Especially when Lucic isn't even playing.
I'm way more disapointed with the media darlings, Latendresse and Lapierre then Koivu. They play really regressed in the playoffs. They either can't get their shots thorugh the few times they aren't behind the net, the rest of the time they just go behind the net to cough up the puck. They have both sucked the whole series. I think you need to get Latendresse playing with an offensive guy if he is going to take the next step. Lapierre also needs to play with a guy with more upside then Kostopolous. All three have been a one trick pony of going behind the net and just trying for wrap-around. It seems like half the times they are fighting each other for the puck.
It's a shame bcoz the team came out with some jam, but Julian out coached Gainey and made him look like a rookie tonight.
No matter what they do this summer now the team can only get worse. They are going to lose a lot of guys and and giving the fiasco this year and the ownership situation, I think they are going to have even a harder time then usual signing any free agents.
The only light i see is that no matter how bad it is, it can't be as bad as the Houle-Tremblay-Corey years.
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WTF is wrong with Gainey.
First he starts Price. Again, his positioning has been lousy.
They finally get two powerplays in a row with the game close and he starts Pleks, Dags and Kovy. Why wouldn't you start your number one line, especially since Pleks hasn't done anything in a month!
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The only problem I have with the comparison to Crosby is, there were centers who performed at an elite level at 18 years of age. If you look at stats alone, it says Roy improved from 1986-1987, but that was because he was playing behind the best defensive team in hockey and Roy was Hayward had superior statistics. In 1988, essentially identical again.
I bought into the hype after the Bulldogs run, but I also was not devestated or did not admonish him or his ability
when he reacted like your typical 20 year old against Philly. The pressure in Montreal is ridiculous, and with ZERO
superstars to cushion the vitriol of the media he is a sitting duck.
I don't think he will be permanently damaged as long as he stays committed. Hardwork and dedication
will see him through. He is not good enough to carry a team right now, he needs support, and although one
day he will be able to make a good team a contender, that time has not come.
This team needs an enima. I hope Gainey has been taking notes, because he needs to figure out WHO
will buy into a team game, and who will not. Until 100% of the team is committed to a system, this team
will flounder, as will Price and Halak.
The kid is a lightning bolt for criticism, and all the shortsighted attacks on him by the fanbase do not help
the situation. If he comes out of the other side of this slump intact, LOOK OUT. Because he will have graduated
from the school of hard knocks and things will roll of his back at 24. My fear is a rabid, uncontrolled fanbase
comes to realize it while he is wearing another jersey.
I had actually said last year that Price should have had a full year in Hamilton. From what I saw of Halak the year before, I was hoping the habs would have let him and Huet fight it out for the starter role last year. I was pissed when 2 years ago Carbo went with Huet over Halak in the last game against Toronto.
Goalies need more time then forwards to develop and it is a LOT rarer for a goalie to succeed as a 20 year old then it is for a forward. Having said that I also think the habs rushed in Ribeiro and Latendresse before they belonged in the league. Looks like Latendresse is coming into his own, but I think if he had the chance to dominate in Hamilton, he could have been further along in his development.
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Outside of you sitting in on goalie meetings or being a professional goalie coach yourself
and identifying the problems Price is having that could be directly correlated with poor coaching,
you have no plausible reason to have reached that conclusion outside of grasping at straws.
That same attitude would have resulted in Francois Allaire being fired in 1987 for ruining Patrick Roy.
Meanwhile the outsider's simplistic assertion: Roy 1986 - GOOD, Roy 1987 - BAD fire the goaltender
coach, would have missed the fact that Allaire/Roy were tearing down 20 years of bad habits and
trying to rebuild the goaltender he would evolve into in 2 years. They were playing with teqhnique,
equipment and molding arguably the greatest goaltender of all-time.
Tiger Woods did the exact same thing. He won the Masters and spent the next 2 years breaking down
his form and recreating a more efficient swing, all the while people wondering if he was just a one year
wonder. Then he won the 1999 PGA Championship and the next year completed the Tiger Slam.
So judging somebody's coaching with zero inside knowledge is an exercise in futility.
Everybody tries to make things simple. Well it is simple, when the team plays well in front of him
he will look good. People enjoy nothing more than piling on when things go wrong.
Price reaches out for a puck and it is poked away, Darren Pang say unacceptable, he was to slow.
Chris Mason reaches for the same puck and has it poked away, the Blues D was soft on the play.
I am amazed at the rationalizations on the board to blame Price. THe bad goals he allows get the team
down, and this causes the team to play poorly, resulting in Price getting bombarded with shots. So being
outshot 3 out of every 4 games is on him?
THe Habs have been outshot 35 times in his 49 starts, is this the way to insulate a 21 year old?
Compare that to the wonder boy Steve Mason who has been outshot 26 times in 61 starts.
Price 71% of his starts
Halak 57% of his starts
Mason 43% of his starts
Is this the way to shelter a 21 year old? Everybody whines about Gainey ruining Price, complains about
the development of him, become fearful he is Jim Carey. Who do you think is doing the most damage to
the kid? Where do you think the stress in his life comes from?
Could it be the media and fans who treat him like he should already be as good as Luongo at the age of 21?
Everything here is blown out of proportion. Last season he came up at 20 and had a fantastic season and
the season ends in frustration and disappointment because he didn't pull a Dryden/Roy! There are FOUR goalies
(Roy, Fuhr, Beaupre and PRICE) in post expansion history who have won a playoff series at the age of 20 or less.
ONE goaltender in post expansion history who won the Cup at 20 or less and three rookie goaltenders to win the Conn Smythe. Yet last year somehow morphed into a disappointment, and some began to fear the worst last summer. Can he come back? Is he ruined? I hope he is not like Marc Andre Fleury.
All year people have been calling for Halak, give Halak a chance!
Yet their GAA is virtually identical, there winning percentage is Price - .571% and Halak .561%
and Halak has a .915 to Price's .905. So either both of these guys are responsible for this brutal year
or they have been hung out to dry by a mediocre hockey team.
This was the gamble Gainey took. Young goaltenders are inconsistent and Gainey believed the team
he had last season was more likely to insulate the kids. There is NOTHING wrong with Price that maturity
and familiarity will not fix. If he has any pride, he will hit the ice hard this summer and fix any flaws that
he has accumulated over the season. Back to basics, do his homework on the shooters and reference
his experience next time he struggles. If his numbers continue to slide next season, then you begin to
become a little concnerned. Because at 22 many of the elite goaltenders began to improve and by 23-24
if Price looks as frazzled and lacks the confidence he does now, then maybe he is not as tough as they thought.
Mason has been staggering to the finish line, but nobody has said a word. I would not be surprised if more
struggles await him. History shows exactly this type of learning curve for EVERY young goaltender. It is the
way the NHL works. But if he played in Montreal, somebody would bring up the fact that his SV% was .906 down
the stretch and if he was playing like he did during the majority of the regular season the Jackets would not be down against the Wings. But the fact that he plays in Columbus, the story is covered in reality. He is a kid who is being
shellacked by the defending champions.
Firing Melanson will not magically cure Carey Price. The cure is a summer for him to work pressure free
on his technique and confidence and a team that is not so brutally inept in their own zone to expose the kids
to the wolves (ie. Media and fanbase).
Temper expectations to the realm of reality. Just like everybody freaking out that the Habs are struggling in
the playoffs. What did you expect? Go check the past 5 Stanley Cup winners and reference their record, their
special teams, their goal differential, their 5 on 5 performance, their win% down the stretch. It will paint a pretty
clear picture of where the Habs are headed. And it ain't the regular parade route.
Don't eat your young. Let the kid breathe and mature. He is making mistakes, but I guess every 21 year old here
was so confident that they knew how to deal with things like they do at 27-35. I guess the majority of 21 year olds
on here had risen to become Presidents and CEOs mistake free with zero learning curve. Most 21 year olds I know
don't know how to pay a bill, are either in school, or working a dead end job trying to figure out what they want
to do or live at home and their priority is what club am I going to this weekend and how many beers will it take before I vomit.
THIS IS NORMAL!
The big difference i see in Price is that he is going down WAY more then he used to. When he came up, I saw a lot more Brodeur in him then Roy. From the way he handled the puck, to him being more of a fusion goalie (mix of butterfly and standup). Now he seems to be completely a butterfly goalie and the only reason for a change like that has to be the Goalie coach. Look at Brodeur, he made his own style and didn't become a complete butterfly goalie.
Price is out of position WAY more then last year as well and has a hard time recovering - mainly becuase he always seems to be down and out the play at times.
I think a goalie coach's job should be to toughen the kid up mentally and help him technically and play to his strengths and NOT change his style completely.
When you have a young goalie and you start messing with what's made him successful, he is going to start second guessing himself a lot more and that is not going to do anything for his confidence.
This is probably a poor example - becuase I couldn't stand Richard Sevigny and Dryden was my favourite player growing up. But after Dryden retired, for a brief time he did work with the habs goalies. However, Sevigny rejected his coaching becuase it didn't suit his game. I think Price needs to work with someone who has helped him get here (Kolzing and his dad are said to have been an influence), and he needs to standup and challenge the coaches as well - which can only come with more maturity. not everyone is as mature and confident as Brodeur was to find what works for him. In Price's case, I think they need someone who knows his style and he trusts more. Which is why I think Kolzig would be perfect for fit Price (i think he is pretty much done as a player??). I believe Kolzig also provided him some coaching when Price played for his junior team.
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They also need to get him a new goaltending coach. I think Melanson has done more harm then good.
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we don't have anyone that wants to sit their butt in front of thomas
I really don't know why they don't work with Latendresse and work with him on parking himself in front of the net and work on tipping the puck. WTF is the point of putting Laraque there. Yeah his tough to move and can make it tough for Thomas to see the puck, but if you put some one in front of the net who can't do anything when there is a loose puck, or tip a puck, he really is a wasted player.
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1) We are at home
2) No Lucic
3) Hopefully the reffing wont be as bad (but I'm not holding my breath)
Our chances to win this game are as good as they'll ever get.
GO :hlogo: GO
The team needs to do more to help itself and not worry about refs. Hopefully we'll see the following changes from the Habs:
1) DISCIPLINE!!!!
2) Playing the Habs game - not trying to play the Bruins style - these means playing a high tempo game using our speed and skill rather then trying
to out hit the Bruins.
3) Better use of personel, starting with taking advantage of line changes to get favorable match-ups, I'd like to see the following lines:
Kovelev - Koivu - Tangauy
Kostitsyn - Plekanac - Higgins
Latendresse - Lapierre - S. Kostitysn
Kostopolous - Metropolit - Laraque
Komisarik - Hamrlik
Weber - Schneider
Gorges - Dandenault
Halak
-I'd also like Gainey double shifting the top line and mixing in Kovy on other lines
4) Driving for the friggin net, rather then cycling the puck behind the net around the point.
5) Creating traffic in front of Thomas WITHOUT taking stupid penalities!!!
6) SHOOTING the friggin puck and actually HITTING the net with traffic in front!
7) Keeping it simple when getting the puck out of our end.
Seems pretty simple to me, but I'm not going to be holding my breath.
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1) We are at home
2) No Lucic
3) Hopefully the reffing wont be as bad (but I'm not holding my breath)
Our chances to win this game are as good as they'll ever get.
GO :hlogo: GO
The team needs to do more to help itself. Hopefully we'll see th following changes from the Habs:
1) DISCIPLINE!!!!
2) Playing the Habs game - not trying to play the Bruins style - these means playing a high tempo game using our speed and skill.
3) Better use of personel, starting with taking advantage of line changes to get favorable match-ups, I'd like to see the following lines:
Kovelev - Koivu - Tangauy
Kostitsyn - Plekanac - Higgins
Latendresse - Lapierre - S. Kostitysn
Kostopolous - Metropolit - Laraque
Komisarik - Hamrlik
Weber - Schneider
Gorges - Dandenault
Halak
-I'd also like Gainey double shifting the top line and mixing in Kovy on other lines
4) Driving for the friggin net and creating traffic in front of Thomas WITHOUT taking stupid penalities!!!
5) SHOOTING the friggin puck and actually HITTING the net!
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Fair points, Mr. habs29. I'm not sure about trading Plekanec, though. He's right around the age when Ribeiro was traded, and if he has less offensive talent than Ribs, he has a far better all-around toolkit when he's on his game. Even if he blows his next chance, I think you're better off keeping him on grounds that trading a 25-year-old who has already spent a season and a half as a bona fide #2 C is almost certain to blow up in your face. Do we *really* think he is going to continue to suck in the playoffs, or be as useless as he was this season, when, say, he's 28 or 29? Why should we suffer the growing pains without reaping the rewards?
(Of course, if you can package Pleks as part of a deal for an elite C, that's another story. But I'm addressing the idea that we should give up on him, i.e., 'ship him out').
The same goes for Higgins and the Kostitsyns, BTW. None of these guys are close to their prime. Unless Gainey has detected fundamental character flaws that will likely prevent them from ever fulfilling their potential - or unless a deal emerges for that mystical stud #1 C the organization has needed for a decade - we should hold on to these young guys. Otherwise we'll be reproducing with players what we've been doing with our coaches: providing quality on the job training that ends up benefitting other organizations.
Pleks is a WAY better player then Ribero was when he left and even today, I'd still rather have Pleks then Ribeiro - Pleks actually seems to care and have a good attitude, but for whatever reason - be it the greater physicality of the playoffs or the pressure, can't seem to get ittogether. He also is very streaky like Ryder was.
The risk I see with keeping Pleks is that he is an RFA this year and had a pretty crappy year, so he probably wants a short term deal and the habs need to start signing guys to long term deals rather then having the situation like this year where most of the team will be a UFA or RFA and losing assets for nothing - the way we lost Ryder last year.
I think that he has either 1 yr left or at most 2 years before he is a UFA. So if you give him a low low 1yr deal now, he may end up deciding to walk next year when he is a UFA and you get nothing. Or, you could take a chance sign him to a long term deal for more money then he deserved after this year's output - assuming he is willing to sign a long term deal given his numbers this year, and take a chance he puts it together.
I think he is better suited as a #3 centre then a #2. But then, is Lapierre going to be happy being #4?? There are a lot of young guns that are o going to be RFA's this year and I'd like the habs to lock up the better one's to longer term deals now, when they can sign them cheaper.
The following are all RFA's this summer:
1. D'Agostini
2. Higgins
3. Latendresse
4. Plekanec
5. Chipchura
6. Stewart
Next summer you also have the following RFA's to deal with:
1. Price
2. Lapierre
3. S. Kostitsyn
4. Halak
From this year's list, unless I'm wrong, Higgins and Pleks can become UFA's in 2010.
How many of this year's RFA's do you want to try and sign to longer term deals (4+ years)???
I'd want to sign Higgins for sure - I still think he has more potential and the type of attitude to be an impact player and leader. He may not hit 40 goals, but should be able to become at least a regular 30 goal guy.
I'd also want to sign Latendresse to a long-term deal - anywhere between 4-7 years and front loading the contracts more as an incentive. I think if you lock him up now, even if it means over paying him, you could end up with a bargain when he hits his stride (think Jeff Carter this year although I wouldn't pay him that kind of money now).
Last year the habs signed AK46 to a 3 year deal, and I really think they should have tried to lock him him to a 4-7 year deal, becuase this guy SHOULD easily hit 40 goals when he hits his stride and we probably won't be able to keep him, unless he wants to keep playing with little bro.
Next year, I think you need to try and lock up Price and Lapierre long term.
But how many players can you take that risk with??? Do you want to do it with a small centre, when all you have in your system are other small centeres like Maxwell???
I'm not saying dump him for nothing like they did with Ribeiro. But if you can package him with a few other players and prospects, you can try and get a impact power forward or centre that the habs are serverly lacking.
We also have the following UFA's to deal with:
-Koivu
-Tangauy
-Kovolev
-Komisarik
-Kostopolous
-Lang
-Schneider
-Dandenault
-Brisbois
-Bouillon
If you lose the top 4 on this list for nothing, all of a sudden you just lost your ENTIRE first line and your #2 d-man!!! You have to have some chips to replace them.
I'd rather have the habs sign Koivu ($3.5M), Kovy ($3.5M) and Tanguay ($3.5M) back if they take a substantial cut from this year's base and although Komi had a bad year, you can't afford to lose your only real phyiscal d-man - especially since he is a much better player then he showed this year. He WILL get at least $5.5M and possibly over $6M this summer. Gainey, needed to sign him during the year. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!!!
Gainey has really left himself open to regress further next year by not re-negotiating during the year and having so many free agents. A strategy like that can work for a team that is going to have a line up free agents wanting to play for you (which said to say, I think the Leafs will end up signing a lot of free agents over the next couple of years). But this this of strategy can not for the habs who can't seem to sign anyone, even if they offer more money, even the french players like Briere balk at coming home.
After the circus this year, where you had the usual idiot in the french media (Rejean Tremblay - is it just me, or is just a coincidence that he shares names with the two guys most responsible for the downfall of the habs - Mario Tremblay and Rejean Houle), created a stink over a non-story, you fired another coach and if most of your leaders walk this year, and on top of that you have to deal with High Quebec taxes and french language education laws. How attractive will Montreal look to other free agents??? We can dream of Bouwmester and Hossa or even Havlet all we want, but there is no way in hell they'll ever come to Montreal.
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Sorry man but If I were the Islanders GM I'd laugh in your face if you offered that for the 1st overall pick. An UFA who might not sign with the Islanders, a player playing on the 4th line of the Habs and a mid/late 1st ?
And the I think the only centre the Oilers would send back for Pleks is Horcoff and his wonderful contract.
I do agree that there do need to be some changes ... Hopefully A. Kostitsyn has an injury because if he doesn't then he'd be the 1st on on my list to be move out along with his brother. AK has been invisible for way to long now
I don't think even mad Mike Milbury would have beene dumb enough to make that deal - actually, come to think of it, he may have actually made it without including Higgins
But I do agree that I'd much rather have the habs go after a Tavares or another impact player that doesn't have a guy contracted for a $6.5M cap hit until he is 40 years old.
Kind of GM the Habs would need to shut out its lousy fans
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
How old are you??? like 12??? Because I see it it is pointless to use logical reasoning or a discussion of the facts with you.
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