hab29RETIRED
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Posts posted by hab29RETIRED
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i think they should put kovolev on the point on the PP, that way with both Souray and Kovolev for the opposition to worry about, either one of the two will be open at the point, or there should be a play in low.
it was kind of painful watching this clip....where the heck is THAT kovolev?
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I have come to change my mind on who should we get from who should we get rid of and rebuild for next year.
It doesn't mean that we would not make the playoffs if we get rid of these players.
I am gonna get burn but
Koivu and Rivet for Getzlaf.Anaheim
Kovalev for Vlasik San Jose
Koivu has a no-trade clause, not sure about Kovalev
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I'm worried about the direction implied in many of these rumours. Forsberg, Tkatchuk, etc., these are all old geezers in hockey terms...we should be rebuilding with youth, not supplementing an aging core with further greybeards.
i agree. I'd rather see the habs making a move for someone like Marleau, then greybeards. Even if it means putting a package that would include Souray (probably will sign with a California team anyway), Kovelev and a prospect for Mareleau and one of SJ's yound defencemen.
The only young guys you here in rumours are Horcoff and Lupal. and i think we already have too many guys like that - guys that don't play with enough desire on a consistant basis.
I would have loved to get Forsburg and would have been willing to give up anything for him - 5 years ago. but right now, whoever gets him really doesn't know if they are going to have him for the rest of the year or the rest of the week.
besides, i don't know even if we hold onto a playoff team, if we can do any damage. This team has sucked 5 on 5 all year. Now with the special teams not working either, I just can't see us going very far unless we get a real change in attitude and charater in the dressing room. I'm hoping saterday's meeting will lead to something, but lets face it, this is a tough week coming up once they get by Florida - and thats assuming they don't look past Florida, who the habs havent' done to well against.
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i was really hoping to see sammy-koivu-Higgens/latendresse
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Gainey should make a trade with the wizard of Oz and get;
- a heart for kovolev
- a brain for Carboneau we may see some decent line combos
- some courage for his forwards, so they may be willing to pay the price in front of the net
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Please STOP blaming the coaches, this is the same coach who everyone was cheering when they had the top PP and PK in the league. Coaches coach and players play, except the Habs who noramally just skate around and collect a check.
when things aren't going well it is the coaches job to make adjustments. They have done diddly squat.
The only thing that the habs were doing well was the PP and PK. The oppostion has adjusted. Ever since the habs played NJ, the way NJ keyed in o Souray and shut down the PP has been what every team has done since.
In today's over-coached NHL, it is the coaching staff to adjust and make changes when their game plan is not working.
Carbo's line combos suck.
i also think one of the reasons the habs get dinged for every marginal call is that on every call - even when it is a blatent penalty he is ALWAYS yapping at the refs.
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Hey, did Houle make any good trades when he was GM? Or were they all bad? Did he make any good draft picks?
Good soldier, horrible general.
the muller-schneider trade for Turgeon-malakov was pretty good, since Muller was in decline. At the time i was hoping the habs would go after Lafontaine who was rumoured to be available - but ended up having concussion problems shortly thereafter.
if only turgeon with all his skill had even half of mullers heart!
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Bob Gainey needs to go back behind the bench. Leave Carbo as an assistant coach. They have more respect for him, he keeps his cool, and he seems to make better decisions.
amen to that!!!
I so pissed watching the game tonight. What the hell is wrong with Carbo!! The PP is not working, yet its the same guys, the same game plan still. Its been almost a month since they have sucked!!
what the hell is Ryder still on the pp for????
ANd i would have liked to have seen samsonov in tonight - playing with Koivu!
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The reason I trust gainey, apart from his indisputable record as a winner, is that his moves ALWAYS make sense. That's not the same thing as saying they always work out.
But take Ribs for Ninimaa. The Habs were in a pinch on the blueline. Ninimaa was a player with a solid pedigree, a record of performance as a near-all-star calibre D-man, who had fallen on hard times. If he could recover some of that form, then the trade would be a steal. And Gainey might have recieved a defencman of comparable quality to Ninimaa back for Ribeiro, but he wasn't going to get anyone else with as high an potential upside as Ninimaa. So, he pulled the trigger.
The trade didn't work out. Ninimaa - ill-used by the coaching staff by being played on the wrong side, incidentally - will clearly NOT recover his old form. But given the information he had, it was a well-thought out, calculated risk. (UNLIKE, say, Roy and Keane for Thibault/Kovalenko/Ruscinsky, or Odelein for Richer, or Turgeon/Conroy for Corson/Baron, or Tucker for Poulin, or V. Bure for Zalapsky...shall I go on?)
Bob's thought process is always careful, thorough, and sensible. Over time, that approach will lead to more good decisions than bad, which is why Bob ends up a winner.
As for overpaying: there's some truth to this. HOWEVER, it is an inescapable fact that if you want to sign UFAs, you will almost certainly 'overpay,' period. (Although it's open to question what 'overpaying' means if you're really just paying 'market rate.') And I don't know how one can say that Souray isn't 'worth' more than $3.5 mil. He's a top-5 offensive defenceman. Many teams will pay at least $5 mil for him. We can arbitraily pull figures out of thin air, of course, and say he's 'worth that.' But you have to work in the context you find yourself in.
So maybe Bob shouldn't sign UFAs or keep the ones he already has. But how would we look without Kovalev, Koivu, Souray, Markov, Rivet, etc.? Probably not too good, eh? So the problem of overpaying is systemic, not merely a matter of Bob's delusions. (And nobody anticipated Theodore's total meltdown, so that wasn't 'overpaying,' unless you're a psychic...)
Go Bob! :hlogo:
I have no doubt that souray will get close to $6M on the market maybe even more. That will be by those gm's that haven't figured out that you can't pay a guy who is not either 1) your number 1 defencemen, 2) your top forward, or 3) a broduer level goalie, that kind of money and have success. There are only a handful of defencemen that i think are worth that kind of money: Neidermeyer, Pronger, Lidstrom (phaneuf and other will be part of that group once he is a free agent in 6 years). It would not make sense for the habs to shell out that kind of money for Souray, coz he is essentially a one trick pony. The guy the really need to re-sign is Markov. I would love for the habs to keep souray, but not at the expense of not being able to have the salary left to field a contender.
I also don't think Bob is delusional - like i said before - compared to Houle, Gainey is the second coming of Sam Pollack and has brought back respectablility to the CH. I don't wknow what it is, maybe as a former player who gave it his all, night in, night out (this IS after all the guy who played in the playoffs with TWO separted shoulders), that he thinks the guy he signed will try to live up to that salary. But these days there are just too many players who mail it in, and just don't even come close to giving it their all. That's why i just don;t understand why he wanted Arnott. The guy has all of the tools - size, skill but just does not have that extra desire that is needed to be an elite player.
I think you have to factor in a guys character these days as well, before you start throwing big money at them. Coz, you can't be making the mistakes like the NYR and the leafs have made for years, by just keep on writing big checks in the hope that some of your signings will work out.
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You don't develop young players - especially ones with an offensive upside - by pigeonholing them as checkers and depriving them of an offensive role. What you do is, put them with linemates who will make them better players, and then let their confidence and talent blossom. Give them room to learn and make mistakes while putting them in a position to succeed.
I come back to what Gainey did with Higgins. Put him on the first line. Overnight, we had a 20-goal scorer and, perhaps, a future star (notwithstanding his current wretched play). He also put Komisarek with Markov - our best D-man - and not coincidentally, Komi, who many were giving up on, suddenly started to find his game.
Zhogs deserves the same chance. I for one am sick of Habs prospects languishing on the fourth line and then, eventually, being dumped.
I totally agree with you regarding Perohzogin. Although, I would try samsonov-Koivu-Higgens first. Just to see if you can get Sammy going. Higgens looks like he is coming around, with a new linemate, Koivu may come out of his funk as well.
I thought they didn't give Perohzogin a long enough time on the first line last year. While Ryder has been getting a free pass despite his inconsistancy.
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At the beginning of the season, everyone (including me) was ready to anoint Higgins as the next Messiah.
Why?
Pre-injury Higgins: 13 GP, 8 G, 5 A, 13 P.
He's been a drag since returning from his injury, which he can't really be blamed for. Yes, 6 goals and 3 assists in 24 games is weak, but injuries are injuries.
What I wanted to point out is that Plekanec has more than imitated Pre-injury Higgins since the New Year:
2007 Plekanec: 16 GP, 9 G, 7 A, 16 P.
...but there's still a lot of reticence to identify him as anything like the Real Deal.
Parallel stats, completely different recognition. 16 points in 16 is more than a hot streak, right?
Do we have something better than we thought? Can we get Higginsesquely excited about this guy for a minute?
I'm excited at the potential of both. But I'd like to see a full year of production from either to annoint them as the next messiah in Montreal. I got to see 3 habs games live last year from the front row. Two of them were stinkers against buffalo, the guy who caught my eye then was Pleakanac. HE is showing much more offensive potential and hockey smarts then what i saw at the time. What did impress me last year is how hard he works.
To me that is the real common trait between the two. They both work hard and have had some success. Let's hope that continued hard work and some addtional experience will lead to more consistancy in production.
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I'd rather have crosby. More setups for other players... doesn't try to do it all by himself... I know ovechkin is a one-man wrecking ball, and I like him, but i like crosby better... we'll see as the years progress that they'll both be amazing anyway... but while I think we have a (miniscule) chance of landing crosby someday due to his childhood love of the habs, we don't stand ANY chance of landing ovechkin...
I'd also rather have ovechekin. Crosby is probably the better player. But simply from a fan's prospective, i like wathcing ovechikin. He plays with much more of an edge.
Having said that, I would give up 3 or 4 of our top guys from our roster today for Malkin (while i think oveckin and crosby are untouchable), given the number of young players pittburgh has, who knows, they might be willig to part with Malkin or Stall if they received enough in return.
WIth the salary cap, they can't wait 2-3 years for the young players to gel into a plowerhouse, and another 2-3 for them to learn to win like the young oilers did. So you may be able to pry a malkin or Stall out of pittsburgh if you gave enough in return.
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The message of Gainey has been clear to sammy.. "I tried to trade you, nobody wanted you, I waived you, nobody picked you!" Now, you play.
lets hope he gets a prolonged chance to play with a guy like koivu, rather then have carboneau play koviu with Striet and johnson or let Ryder-Koivu-Higgens flounder any longer.
Sorry, Ryder has had a lot of chances this year, especially from in close. He hasn't converted, end of.I never meant waive him, but he - along with others - has simply not delivered this year. Maybe RobRock's idea of pairing him with Samsonov might work, especially as Plecks would draw a lot of attention on that line, and if Ryder could play off the puck, might find the opening he needs - and he need the openings - to unleash his pretty good wrist shot from the high slot. But Ryder has been awful. No-one faults his work ethic, but Downey works really hard too...
Anyone who suggests that Samsonov was not an explosive player with Boston never saw him play. He was the one guy I would cringe when carrying the puck on the rush against us, more that Thornton.
Ive said that so many times as well. Ryder blows way more chances then he converts. I would LOVE to see Ryder score two or three in the next couple of games. I would love it even more if he was TRADED right away. Everytime he has gotten hot, i've hoped that the habs would finally trade him to some unsuspecting gm. I can't believe he has been called a poor man's brett hull!!!
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Bob has done a very good job with Les Canadiens. How quickly we forget how bad things had become. We had no hope of winning a cup in this century. Do things sometimes not work out as he has planned OF COURSE! Does he fix them and make them right? Yes!! emphatically YES! I believed that Jose would come back as good as ever he did not. Bob fixed it. As to the Audet fiasco look at his numbers when Bob signed him. It looked like a good signing. When it blew up did he fix it ? Yes! We were the dummy's there. And he fixed that one twice. Bob is a very honorable man who will support his people to the limit (check out why he left Dallas) he is a very smart hockey man (see THE CUPS) he believes in doing what is right without fanfare notice no leaks from the Habs when he makes deals we are taken by surprise. He believes in giving people the opportunity to succeed and he is not chintzy about paying them because he wants them to succeed and stay with the organization. Ask nieuendyk if he thinks dallas was better after Bob left. Would Carbo be here if not for Bob? I for one love the fact that we have some of the best and smartest and talented former Habs coaching and running this team. Tradition is a Habs thing, we are not like the leafs we appreciate and love the former stars who gave us such glory. I have been a fan of this team for 42 years I have seen a lot of good (mostly good ) and some bad (houle tremblay was a mistake) What we have now is a possibilty of a new Habs Dynasty. Quit with the negative stuff all the time a season or a dynasty is not won or lost on 1 player or game. Bob has never been a loser and he never will be. Nor will the Montreal Canadiens. Keep the faith and trust we are really fortunate to have this group leading us.
I totally agree with you regarding Gainey turning the team around. I was esthatic when he became GM, actually even before he took over from Savard, i was happy he was on board. I also liked the Kovolev pickup. I do think that in today's salarycap system, you have to be a little chintzy. I was shocked at the contract he signed ribeiro for in the summer and was thrilled when we got rid of him before the season started. But i do think, that you can't risk picking up a guy like ninnima for what his contract is worth (i'm just glad it there is only 1 yr left).
ANd it is very DIFFICULT to not be negative when night after night you watch the habs not show up for 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 nights. Yes we have a possibility of habs dynasty, but not if we don't let some of our assets like Perozhogin, grabovzsy, Koitysen a prolonged chance to show what the can do. Affennigov did not become the player he is today sitting in the minors, being told to play defence, or toiling on the 4th line.
The habs coaching staff has to give the kids a real chance to play and learn from their mistakes. The habs have a long history in the post pollack days of giving up on guys and watching them excel elsewhere.
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I am pretty sure that Bonk was already signed when the Habs aquired him.
Hindsight is always 20/20 will my the cliche I go with. Samsonov was the right move and could still prove a lot of people wrong if he is given another chance and he can keep a lid on his feelings as well as his agents BIG PIE HOLE.
BOnk wasn't signed, the habs signed him to the 2 yr deal a couple of weeks after they traded for him at the draft.
i'm not questioning getting samsonov. I've always liked him (would have liked sykora better), but my main point is that we over paid for him, just as we overpaid for Theodore.
My point isn't so much that gainey made a mistake in getting samsonov, or some of his other pickups, but that gainey has always bought high. He has done a good job unloading his mistakes (like Audatte from his dallas days and theodore last year).
As much as i like koivu (he's one of my favorite habs from the players i've seen (a list that includes Dryden, Lafleur, Robinson, Gainey, Roy), but in a salary cap world, I think we paid a bit too much. Same goes with Kovolev.
On a different note, tHis year, i think we are going to have no choice to have to open the bank for Markov (if we can keep him), coz of the premium the market is paying for defencemen. But I do hope that we don't do somethng stupid and overpay to try and keep SOuray. On the market he can probalbly get $6M, but i don't see him worth more then $3.5M max.
I'm actually hoping we move him. As much as we need his goals, He is probably are most tradeble asset. I don't think we are a serious contender for this year - have the potential of being an upset team of the stars are lined up, but I think moving souray could give us the potential to ice a much stronger team next year. The guy I think the habs should try for is Marleau. It is going to take a hell of a lot more then Souray to get him (especially since he is a UFA), but given that Souray probably wants to sign with a california team, packageing him with the right players might be a way to get Marleau, since SJ does need defensive help to counter anaheim's big 2. If I was in Gainey's shoes i would even be willing to dangle Kovolev and a prospect in a package that could get us Marleau and one of SJ's D-men prospects (Carle).
We do have some good wingers but no bona-fide #1 calibare centre. he is a year away from free agency, so giving up so much could be risky. But i think given his skill and leadership, i think it is worth the gamble, coz with so many young players, having a proven leader, other then koivu, is needed.
Given SJ probably doesn't have the right mix to knock off Anaheim, by giving them more depth, we may be able to get stronger for next year, while still having some upset potential this year.
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i know that to a lot of people, Gainey is beyond reproach. And after the Houle fiasco, Gainey seems like the second coming of sam pollack.
But Samsonov and Ninimma aren't gainey's only mistakes. He does have a history of overpaying for players.
While i've never been a ninnima fan, getting rid of ribeiro is almost worth the salary being paid to ninnima.
but consider the following:
Samsonov signing, while the like's of Sykora were ignored (and i;m not saying this out of hindsight, coz, i was hoping the habs would try and get sykora back when both the Ducks and Rangers were trying to unload him).
Before signing Samsonov, he also went after Arnott, who has never played to his potential for any extended period of time.
Overpaid D-Men Ninnema - yes the habs had injuries to contend with, but i would have preferred a more affordable pickup. Frankly I would have been happy if the habs picked up a 3rd or 4th round pick for Ribeiro.
Picking up Traverse when the team already lacks quality d-men.
signing Theodore to the ridicoulas contract (again, this is not hindsight, as even when the habs beat the bruins in the playoffs despite the big kovolev giveaway, I was actually one of the people hoping the habs would trade theadore after that series for a true impact player up front, I was also hoping back when there were rumours of Atlanta being willing to trade their #1 pick that the habs would unload theadore).
Signing bonk to a big contract when they knew that their was a labour shortage coming.
Going back, to his dallas days, he also was responsible for the expensive signings of AUdette (which he unloaded to montreal when he was a bust), Turgeon, Guerin and there were a few others i can't remember off the top of my mind.
Again, I'm not questioning his hockey sense, coz he does manage to get out of his messes much better then Houle could even dream of, and he also did bring in really good role players like Johnson and streit, and this year bonk has been great (just really overpaid), and he also really got lucky with Huet.
I'm just saying that he has a tendancy to overpay for "upper-echlon" and "mid-echlon" player.
Being the consumate proffesional himself, maybe he just naturally expects the same from the players he signs. anyway, just my two cents.
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if his lucky i dont care 30G is 30G, he is not a play maker his a shooter that why he get pay and for the most part he does his job, lets worry about the plays who gets paid and cant do their job, he is one of our only player that we can dump because other team want him, we cant even give away alot of our "superstar" right now because they cant do their job, there over paid, and their shit in the locker room. you want to move a player that only makes 2.2m a year as 15G,20A does his job dont complain and keep the playes that dont bring their best game ,over paid and dont want to be there, i hope you dont run your own business, but if you do can i get a job
hey i didn't support the samsonov signing. I'm just saying that once you have signed him, in the salary cap area, you have to do whatever is necessary to make it work.
If it was up to me Sykora would've been a habs back when Anaheim was trying to dump him.
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Now that Samsonov is 'happily back in the fold'
it's time for Carbonneau to stop jerking him around and start putting him in a position to succeed. That means, first not trapping him on a useless line with Kovalev for months, despite the obvious lack of chemistry; second, not arbitrarily benching him when he starts playing well; and third, either leaving him with Bonk and Johnson - players with whom he suddenly started playing MUCH better - OR trying him out with the only player on our team other than Bonk who actually makes his linemates better, namely Koivu.Samsonov has been a consistent and effective offensive NHL player over his entire career. It is in the interest of the organization that he become that player again. If that means putting him with Koivu, then ABSOLUTELY we should be doing that. As I keep saying, you don't develop a winner by giving Mark Streit 20 minutes of ice a game. You DO win, when you get your best players producing like your best players. That's Carbo's job and he'd better start doing it.
Exactly - STREIT is playing well - for a 4th liner or 5th/6th defencemen. He should be getting minutes that reflect his position on the team.
Funny samsonov becomes a habs and all of a sudden can't score.
The habs just don't let their offensive guys play like scorers do.
The habs should be giving more time to Perozhogin, heck i'd rather even see the habs call grabowsky back up and let Murrey ride the pine.
Let the young skilled guys learn and develop like other teams in this century are doing. There's no way afinaganov would have still been in the NHL if he had been a habs prospect.
Look at beachiman in anahiem, or even Hainsy in Columbas. the habs do a lousy job of developing young players, coz while the fans cry about the lack of scoring, mgmt tries to teach the scorers defence while handcuffing them offensively.
for some reason, the habs have a hard on for ryder (except when it comes to signing him to a contract), so he's been pretty much given a free pass when it comes to ice time.
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sammy so good that no other team wants him, his over paid and dont want to be in montreal, ryder as been runner up for rookie of the year, score 30 G last year and as 15G and 20A this year, only makes 2.2 M a year and his the problem? thats funny.
The difference is that with the chances Ryder has, he should have 30 goals right now. the guy is not a sniper. The only thing he can do is shoot - and usually aims for the crest on the goalies jersey.
there is a reason he is streaky - the odd time he is lucky - the puck goes in.
Everytime Ryder gets hot, i pray that the habs will dump him!!!!
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I'm all for seeing Koivu and Sammy together. But i'd rather see Ryder dropped down to the 4th line with Lapierre and Murrey.
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I'd like to see Sammy, Koivu and Higgns/Latendresse
I second that, although i want to see Sammy-Koivu-Higgens.
Let Ryder rot on the third or fourth line and put Perozhogin back on the third line.
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I think that the coaching staff really needs to make adjustments to the special teams (which were actually what was the biggest strength at the start of the year).
Biggest problem with the habs is that they have not adjusted while their opposition has. Montreal's powerplay was awesome at the start, but teams adjusted to their game plan. The coaching staff has done nothing to adjust to the oppostions adjustmetns.
Carbo also has done a lousy job on line combos. As i've said before, the koivu line for the past month has looked worse then a Don Cherry suit!!!!
Why Koivu has not been used with samsanov is a bigger mystery then the caramilk secret.
The way Carbo is treating Perozhogin, he is eventually going to get dumped to another team and probably will join the long list of habs castoffs that excels elsewhere. Why are the habs so patient with Ryder and not Perozhogin and Samsonov??? Ryder should have at least 35 goals by know with the chances he's had. But the guy is NOT s sniper (but management seems to think so). I don't remember Brett Hull shooting at the goalie's crest on most of his shots, like Ryder does. Higgens has been struggling, but has worked much harder then Ryder. Why the hell is he not on the first PP unit???
I think up front the habs should try Higgens-Koivu-Sammy (assuming he doesn't get picked up), and Latendresse-Plekcanak-Perozhogin on the second unit.
What about Kovolev???
While Markov is hurt, the habs should try playing Kovolev and Souray on the point on the PP - yes they would both be about as effective as pylons if they gave up the puck, but give the habs two options at the point and the opposition can't key on Souray then. It would also open things up for the play down low. They should put Higgens and Latendresse in front of the net (the way the Canes had their butts in Aebishars face last night.
I really hope that if Sammy is unclaimed, he will get a shot to succeed. It's the coaching staff job, to help players succeed and i don't think they have done a very good job of that. Sammy and Kovy don't look to have any chemistry, so why was every configuration they tried early just revolved around putting someone else between them. Although one intriguing configuration would be Sammy-Koivu-Kovolev, but it probably would not be a good idea to have three playmakers together.
Anyway, I really belive that habs NEED Sammy to do well, more then sammy himself needs to do well (after all, at the end of the day, he is still going to be getting paid). The Habs have a hard time attracting free agents as it is, after they way samsonov has been treated, good luck on getting someone else to play in montreal!!!
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Both years will count. That is why it won't happen. Doesn't make sense. Sammi probably won't be sent down to the minors. They don't want to get rid of him that badly ... unless we sign someone with a large contract sooner rather that later.
So what are the habs options then??? If they don't send him to the minors, he still counts against the cap and from what i understand, he can't play for the habs unless he is put through re-entry waivers.
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I've been a lurker here for the last two years, but this past month has really pissed me off!!
I think waiving samsonov was a LOUSY move and Carboneau has to share the brunt of the blame.
With the koivu line looking worse then a Don Cherry suit for the past month, samsonov should have had a chance to play with koivu for a few games.
He has worked hard the last 3-4 games and has even looked better then kovolev. Why the hell is Ryder still playing??? Why is he getting the ice time he is??? he is getting a regular shift, PP and PK time. The bum should have been benched for the past two weeks. What kind of sniper aims for the goalies crest 90% of the time????
I can't understand the line combos that Carbos got going - 2 games with Striet-Koivu-Johnson????
What the hell is the team's best player doing with 3rd/4th liners??? Do we really need BOTH Murrey and Downey playing.
I really think Carbo messed up big time with Samsonov and he his also going to end up running Perozhogin out of town - and i think that perozhogin can be as good as affinagov (spelling probably is wrong), but probably will end up becoming a star somewhere else.
With the way Samsonov has been treated, good luck on the habs signing any free agents (hardly anyone wants to come here already).
I think Sammy didn't help matters by his two trade requests, but the habs know how hard it is to attract free agents, they NEEDED this to work.
OK, now that i have finished my much needed vent.
If no one claims sammy now and he the habs put him on re-entry waivers, and someone does pick him up. Will half his remaining salary only count against this years cap, or will the habs also be on the hook for half his salary next year???
Game Thread | Panthers vs. Habs | 02/13/07
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
that was what pissed me off at the time. A guy is playing his heart out, getting results and gets sent back down. If the the habs took the same approach as laviolete in Carolina. either Murrey or Downey would have been sent down, coz they have pretty much down squat this year.
WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY won't carboneaue give Samsonov and Koivu a chance :?- :?- :?- :?- :?-