Peter Puck
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Posts posted by Peter Puck
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The Coyotes are not for sale, wtf, hows that an option
stupid judge, he cant rule that
if the owner wants to sell it, then its for sale ffs. Who does the judge think he is to say the owner cant sell it.
If an owner wants to sell his franchise, he needs to find a buyer that is acceptable to the NHL. The NHL board of governors needs to approve all new owners. This was mentioned many times in connection with the Habs sale. Of course Bettman said many times that the BOG has no problem with the Molson brothers as new owners.
With the Coyotes, the judge may well (I think probably will) rule that Balsillie's bid is not valid since he has been rejected as an owner by the NHL. If he decides that the NHL bid is also invalid (for example due to a conflict of interest) then there are no valid bids and so he will rule there is no sale.
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The economics must be considered as well. The owner is broke. If I lent him money, I would want the guy who offered more money to get the team. Simple as that. After a major crash, you would think that the judge would be concerned about that part of it. 240 million to the creditors is more than 150 million. That's it.
That's not quite it. If Balsillie takes the team to Hamilton he adds another creditor, the City of Glendale which owns the arena. They are claiming they will be owed $550 million if Balsillie moves the team. That extra $550 million sure makes the extra $90 million you mention look pretty small.
Since you seem to think that the creditors' opinions are what matters most, you may be interested to know that all the creditors, with the single exception of Moyes, stated in court Friday that they want the judge to rule against Balsillie and in favour of the NHL.
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I mean, many players are gone, including some "big" names, in the KHL now and there is absolutely no indication that many more won't go as well. What if 50-75 players decide to leave over just a few seasons ?
No matter how strong the union is, if players decide to quit the union, what can they do about it ? Nothing.
Have you ever think of how the KHL could become powerful if on their 26th birthday, Malkin and Ovechkin both retire and join the KHL for 2M per season?
You (not only yourself) seem to think that the NHL crumbling is nowhere near possible. I don't share this opinion.
The union doesn't have to do anything about players leaving. Every single one of those guys who left has been replaced by another player who is in the union.
The NHL is not in any immediate danger of crumbling.
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Balsillie showed he has no respect for the league or its rules. He just wants a team. He is more than willing to use the courts to supercede league rules. This is an attitude that turns off other owners.
If he gets a team he may decide that the cap is limiting his ability to win and decide to ignore the cap and then sue if the league tries to enforce the penalties. Or he may decide that he wants to sign another team's RFA without paying any compensation. Or maybe he will sign an underage star before he is drafted. All these rules have legal weaknesses that put them in jeopardy in a court fight.
Of course, he may do no such thing but his track record makes the other owners nervous.
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When did I say that you should necessarily be selling of your assets????? You could resign them DURING the year and move them in the off season if did want to make changes in personnel.
The whole point is that why weren't Streit, Souray, Komi or even Markov for the at matter (although he did resign), offered contracts during the year????? Why wouldn't you resign your players further away from July 1 as possible???? The value of a player is only going to increase the closer you get to July 1.
It makes much more sense to resign a player during the season when they may be willing to give up going to free agency with the security of a fair contract (rather then risk injury and potentially hurting their value), rather then try and resign them at the end of the year when they have nothing to lose by waiting for July 1?
It is a STUPID policy not to re-negotiate contracts during the year. Good teams and good GM's (see Detroit), get their key guys signed during or before the year, rather then risk having their assets poached by other teams.
Okay, suppose Gainey had locked up his 10 free agents. Lets say
Komisarek 5 years at $5M/yr
Tanguay 3 years at $4.5M/yr
Koivu 2 years at $4M/yr
Kovalev 3 years at $4.5M/yr
Schneider 2 years at $2.5M/yr.
These numbers are of course guesses but I think they are pretty reasonable. Anyhow the exact values are not vital to my point. In fact I probably should add $1M/year to the first 4 and add Robert Lang for 2 years at $4.5M per year since you wanted Gainey to sign them during the season
(say in November) when we had just completed a very good season and were looking like a top contender again. He shouldn't risk having them poached by other teams as you say.
Now we want to revamp during this off season. You say Gainey did great by resigning them and he should now move them for some assets. Let's see how that works.
Well we get to keep Komisarek, I think he'll probably rebound and be a good player. But he had a very bad year for us last year.
What about the others?
Given the interest in Koivu and Kovalev, I doubt we could move either of them. Maybe. Probably we have to sweeten the deal with some pick/prospect to get someone to take each of them off our hands.
Its clear now that no team is going to pay for Tanguay nor Schneider. That's okay if we package Tanguay with Weber some team may take those two for nothing. Maybe we could trade Schneider and a 2nd round pick for a 3rd round pick to some team like the Islanders.
So we trade a few of our picks and/or prospects, buy a few guys out and we can be rid of the guys that Gainey let walk. Getting rid of Lang, Kostopolous, Dandenault, etc. is going to cost of even more. Or we can keep our picks and prospects, keep our 10 (or 5) free agents and say goodbye to all the new UFA's Gainey signed. Maybe we could even have afforded and attracted Hall Gill or Mara without letting our core walk - probably not if Gainey resigned everyone early in the season.
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Discuss this shockingly invented revelation!
I agree completely. I was thinking of starting a "Bob Gainey is a genius" thread but this thread is better.
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That is simply not true. Komisarek wanted 4 million per year from the habs for 7 years and bob refused!
Not to mention that Komi's agent approached bob early on in the season, but Bob refused to negotiate during the season!
I have seen no evidence for either of these claims. Can you provide any?
I don't know where you heard that, but I heard beauchemin's interview on RDS and he said that the Habs were never really in it. They asked a few questions but never made any serious offers to Beauchemin!Here are 2 links to articles.
In the first the Globe and Mail quotes Beauchemin as saying:
"I was waiting for Anaheim. I had four great years there," said Beauchemin, who didn't receive an offer until last Saturday. "If they weren't going to sign me, I wanted to come back East to a hockey market and the Leafs showed the most interest."
In the second the National Post quotes Beachemin as saying that the Habs expressed some interest:
The Montreal Canadiens also showed some interest in the Sorel, Que., native, but Beauchemin admitted he was not their "No. 1 guy." Other clubs made overtures, "but the Leafs showed the most interest."
How long should the Habs have waited for a guy who was waiting to sign in Anaheim?
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Teams have been signing and trading players for years if they don't work out - look at Toronto they are poster boys for stupid signings and then dumping their mistakes on others. They still have had no issues signing players. This year i really like Burkes pickups on defence - if they can pickup 2-3 decent forwards, as much as it hurts to even think about it, I think they could finish ahead of the habs.
I would not sign and trade Koivu. I think the habs should have signed him for another two years, or at least one more year. Koivu was one of the only habs who gives it his all when it counts. I can't believe he the crap he had to put up with during his time in Montreal, especially when he was asked to be the number 1 centre, which he clearly was not fitted for that role after all his injuries. IMO, he would have been the perfect #2 centre. I think we replaced a guy who was a perfect #2 centre, with another #2 centre and will also be asking him to be a #1 centre. Gomez has not shown that he is a #1 centre. He has done nothing with the NYR to prove that he is a #1 centre, so I don't buy this arguement that Gainey has filled the long filling hole of missing a #1 centre.
With respect to Gomez and Gionta they had career years playing with a big clutch player in Elias. Now they are playing with Cammelleri. Had Cammellari had a good playoff he would have been resigned by Calgary.
What I find VERY frustrating is that we constantly go after other teams rejects - Tanguay was run out of town and picked up by Calgary, Gomez and his contract were called untradeable and an anchorwould sink any team in the salary cap era and Gainey picks him up. Gionta is a good two way player, but NOBODY in their right mind would have come even close to the $5M that the habs offered.
Hal Gill is a pylon that was run out of toronto. At least he wasn't signed to the stupid deal toronto had signed him to, but still, he is a pylon. Yeah he is big, but he moves like a log. As I said before, he won a cup, but so what, Gary Leeman won a cup in Montreal. Does that make him a winner or a guy you would want on your team??? Why, why, why wouldn't you at least TRY and sign Beauchiman, a guy who had said he would be interested in going back to Montreal.
Yeah Toronto really has signed a long list of talented free agents lately. Plus, who have they signed and traded right away? You feel they are only 2 or 3 decent forwards away from being better than us. They signed a couple of players that make their defence look pretty good. But doing that meant that they have no money left for forwards.
So in reality they are a long way from reaching our level.
More importantly, how can you think there would be teams willing to trade for Koivu, Tanguay or Kovalev. All 3 could be had for free on July 1 and all 3 had trouble finding new teams. Teams aren't keen to sign them but you think they would be willing to give us assets to get them???
Gomez has shown that he is a number one centre. He had a rough time in NY but he was good in NJ. I agree that it would have been better to get a better centre but tell me how Gainey was supposed to get one? You already say he gave up too much for Gomez.
Of course you assujme that the Gionta-Gomez-Elias line was all due to Elias. If we'd gotten Elias you'd be blaming Gainey for getting a guy whose numbers were all the product of his linemates.
You say that Calgary would have signed Cammallari if he'd had a good playoff. Where's the evidence for that? Can you provide a link? In fact, Calgary has severe cap problems and can't afford Cammalleri.
With Gomez you complain that he was bad in NY and ignore his time in NJ. With Gill you complain that he was bad in Toronto and ignore his time in Pittsburg. As bad as he was in Toronto, he had a great playoff for the Penguins and was on the ice in the dying seconds of game 7 protecting a 1 goal lead.
You complain that we go after other teams "rejects". Any player we get, except in the draft, is another teams reject. This is just a label used to demean players we sign or trade for.
Finally, I'll point out that (according to Beachemin) 1) Bob did go after Bauchemin and 2) Beachemin preferred to try to sign with Anaheim. I think Bob did a great job of getting Spacek when Beauchemin rejected us. Sure we could have waited, but there was a good chance that Anaheim (or someone else) signs Beauchemin and another team signs Spacek while we wait.
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Gainey lost the following in the span of a year for nothing:
Komi, Kovy, Koivu, Tangauy (+ 1st and second for Tangauy), Bouillon, Schneider (+draft pick given up for Schneider). At least the first 4 should have been signed and then moved later if necessary, but there is no excuse for not signing your top assets. Especially when you spent more on replacements that are not necessarily better and may not even be as good as the guys given up.
By the same token, he picked up the following in 2 days for nothing:
Cammalleri, Gionta, Spacek , and Gill. (Plus you have conveniently forgotten the draft pick we got in the deal for Schneider).
As for signing and moving Kovalev, Koivu and Tanguay. This is a ridiculous suggestion. Firstly this is a very good way to discourage future UFAs from signing in Montreal. More significantly, do you see teams lining up to trade for any of these guys? The best of the lot, Tanguay still hasn't been picked up by any team and he is free.
Is Gomez worth more then double then Koivu?????? I think Koivu will end up with around the same amount of points as Gomez - possibly more. If we were going to take Gomez's ridicoulous salary, Sather should have had to sweeten the pot, NOT have Gainey give up Higgins and two good defensive prospects!!!!???Yes we overpaid to get Gomez. But its pretty clear that we had to. Virtually everyone has said for years that we need a #1 centre. We know Gainey has been working for months trying to get one and that he approached at least 5 teams looking for a trade. The trade with NYR was the best available deal. I agree it seems like we had to give up too much, but its clear that it must have been the best of the options. If he doesn't make this deal we don't get any #1 centre and we don't sign Cammalleri nor Gionta. Then we're back with the same core as last year and they're all 1 year older. For those who are critical of the 5 year plan, that's not a good outcome.
Is Gionta better then Kovy??? Given Giontta's size and having fellow smurfs Cammelleri and Gomez, I'd take Kovy. Gionnta is not worth more then $4M tops, personally, i wouldn't spend more then $3.5M.Kovy is certainly better on some nights than Gionta. But on most nights Gionta is better. Plus he's much younger. At the end of his 5 year contract he'll still be 2 years younger than Kovalev is now. (I think Ottawa is in for a shock. With the way Kovalev was idolized here and still dogged it he will be coasting all year in Ottawa - except for the 6 games against us).
I'd take Komi over Spacek or Gill anyday - even at $5M and I'd definatley would have tried to get Beauchiman - who actually expressed an interest to play for Montreal then either of the guys that Gainey signed.I think you are underrating Spacek here. He is certainly much better than the Komisarek we saw last year. I expect Komisarek will rebound but I am not sure he will every reach the level of 2 years ago again. Anyhow, Gainey tried to resign him and he took the same money to go elsewhere. What does that tell you?
Cammelleri is a good signing, but NOT at $6M - Not worth it more then $5M.Okay so you don't think he is worth more than $5M. If we offer him $5M then he signs with the leafs. We save the $6M and who do you want to get at forward with the savings? There is no one available for $5M anywhere near as good (except maybe Tanguay).
As far as Tangauy goes, i criticized the trade last year, seeing first hand in Calgary how useless the guy was in key situations. Yes if healthy he should have gotten 70-75 points, but he is a SOFT perimeter player who couldn't even have checked Steve Bégin and would have ended up as a minus player if he was asked to cover a non-scorer like Begin. But becuase he is french, most loved the signing. But Gainey should have made an effort to sign him to a lower contract, if only to be trade him and get some return back for the two draft picks given up.So you don't like Tanguay yet you criticize Gainey for not resigning him. I would have liked to retain Tanguay myself. As I said above, the idea of a sign and trade sounds nice but it isn't realistic.
Even if Gainey was going to spend the obsene money he did on his 5 free agent signed on July 1, Koivu should have been brought back. I think we could have gotten him for $6M to $6.5M for two years. I would much rather have had Gomez, Koivu, Pleks and Lapierre as centres. As it is, who knows if Pleks will get more in arbitration then what Koivu signed for. having three small centers (Gomez, Pleks, Metropolit) is abosute stupidity!!! And I don't think Chips is a viable option.Above you refered to Gomez as a smurf but you want Koivu back?
I can't think of any recent GM that has mismanaged his assets as badly as Gainey has with the exception of Milbury. This is going to be a HARD season to watch and if I didn't bleed the habs colors I'd take my wife's advice and find a new team. As it is, I told her, I'd get a new wife before I get a new team
When Gainey arrived we had one of the worst teams in the league and one of the worst farm systems. In the short time he has been here we have become a respectable team and have one of the best group of prospects. How this can be cpnsidered a failure is beyond me.
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Players quitting this past season or no, what I can say is this: there was no appreciable difference between the season where Carbo took the team to 1st OA in the East defensively, and the one that barely made it this past season. Therefore, my thought for Carbo is this:
I think you have the potential to be an excellent coach, but you need to learn communication skills and you need to either learn how to coach a defensive system, or hire an assistant who does. Your teams look like headless chickens whether they're winning or losing. When you have the firepower and everyone is playing to potential, you outscore opponents. When those players slump/give up on you/whatever, you lose.
Oh, and when things aren't going well for you, don't throw up your hands and admit defeat. That makes you look like a loser and ANY competent GM will fire you within a very short period. Regardless of how others are acting around you, it gives you no cause to act unprofessionally yourself. No matter what anyone says, YOU are the leader of the team as coach. It's up to YOU to maintain that professionalism for yourself. Throwing your hands in disgust was unprofessional and weak.
PS. I was always a fan of yours and I will be when you find your next job. I say this because some people on these boards feel that when you criticize, even constructively, it means you're bashing. I'm not bashing, just making points, Carbo.
PPS. I will continue to call you Carbo on the boards even though we aren't best friends, bosom buddies, or teammates. I hope you won't beat me to a pulp if you see me in a back alley. It's just much easier typing the short form than typing Carbonneau all the time. Even misspelt. (i.e. Carbon Water)
PPPS. When you make it back to the NHL, you need to grow a porn moustache. I think it would really suit you.
This post is right on the money. The only thing I disagree with is the PPPS.
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So Bob dumped Carboneau and then 3 months later he replaces the core. From this we are supposed to conclude that the players he let go were a cancer in the dressing room and the reason we haven't won the cup during the last 5 years???
Why doesn't Bob's firing Carboneau first prove he was the worst offender???
To me, Bob fired Carbo because the team was playing terribly. Much worse then their skill level indicated they should. He let the players go because he felt it was time to go in a new direction. That doesn't mean the players had a bad attitude. Just as it doesn't mean Carbo had a bad attitude.
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But the Matrix wasn't a geeky movie. It was widely popular in the general public. Sure, many geeks liked it, but so did the majority of everyone else. It wasn't a movie whose main audience was geeks.
I haven't seen it but any film about linear algebra is geeky - although I can see why it would be wildly popular with the college crowd.
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I think that somethings up since he has offer Komisarek a contract but not Tanguay. This makes me think Bob feels he has a reasonable chance to get a star forward. I'll go out on a limb and predict he's after Marleau. San Jose needs to shake up their team if only to appease their fans.
I wouldn't be surprised if we trade Plek + O'Byrne and a couple of our prospects (Weber and Kristo say) for Marleau.
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Meh,
Last time I checked, the team that scores more goals, wins. The times had something to do with it, but it's all retoric. Gretz is bar none the greatest player to lace up the skates.
So this means that all that matters is scoring, does it? If all that matters is who scores the most, then every save or blocked shot is just as good as a goal. I guarantee that Allan Bester had more saves per game then either Gretzky or Lemieux had goals. I don't think that means he was better but it does mean that he did more for the goals for vs goals against then either of them.
I do agree that Gretzky was probably the best ever. But the idea that this is settled by the fact that he has more goal scoring records than anyone else just isn't true.
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Gretzky and Mario are the greatest of all time. Look at heir point per game stats. I never watched Orr play, and his footage is impressive, but I believe Gretz and Mario are THE 2 superheros of hockey. Everyone else is out of their league. Orr, Messier, Howe, Lafluer, Coffey, Bossy... are elite players. Gretzky and Mario are superheros.
Bunch of records i copied and pasted. Holy crap
1.Most goals: 894 in 1,487 games
2.Most goals, including playoffs: 1,016 in 1,487 regular season and 208 playoff games
3.Most goals, one season: 92 in 1981–82, 80-game schedule
4.Most goals, one season, including playoffs: 100 in 1983–84, 87 goals in 74 regular season games and 13 goals in 19 playoff games
5.Most goals, 50 games from start of season: 61 in 1981–82 (October 7, 1981 to January 22, 1982, 80-game schedule) and 1983–84 (October 5, 1983 to January 25, 1984), 80-game schedule
6.Most goals, one period: 4 (Tied with 10 other players) February 18, 1981
7.Most assists: 1,963
8.Most assists, including playoffs: 2,223
9.Most assists, one season: 163 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule
10.Most assists, one season, including playoffs: 174 in 1985–86, 163 assists in 80 regular season games and 11 assists in 10 playoff games
11.Most assists, one game: 7 (tied with Billy "The Kid" Taylor) done three times -- February 15, 1980; December 11, 1985; February 14, 1986
12.Most assists, one road game: 7 (tied with Billy Taylor) December 11, 1985
13.Most points: 2,857 in 1,487 games (894 goals, 1,963 assists)
14.Most points, including playoffs: 3,239 in 1,487 regular season and 208 playoff games. (1016 goals, 2223 assists)
15.Most points, one season: 215 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule (52 goals, 163 assists)
16.Most points, one season, including playoffs: 255 in 1984–85; 208 points in 80 regular season games and 47 points in 18 playoff games
17.Most overtime assists, career: 15
18.Most goals by a centre, career: 894
19.Most goals by a centre, one season: 92 in 1981–82, 80-game schedule
20.Most assists by a centre, career: 1,963
21.Most assists by a centre, one season: 163 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule
22.Most points by a centre, career: 2,857
23.Most points by a centre, one season: 215 in 1985–86, 80-game schedule
24.Most assists in one game by a player in his first season: 7 on February 15, 1980
25.Highest goals-per-game average, one season: 1.18 in 1983–84, 87 goals in 74 games
26.Highest assists-per-game average, career (300 min.): 1.321 -- 1,963 assists in 1,487 games
27.Highest assists-per-game average, one season: 2.04 in 1985–86, 163 assists in 80 games
28.Highest points-per-game average, one season (among players with 50-or-more points): 2.77 in 1983–84, 205 points in 74 games
29.Most 40-or-more goal season: 12 in 20 seasons
30.Most consecutive 40-or-more goal season: 12 from 1979–80 to 1990–91
31.Most 50-or-more goal seasons: 9 (tied with Mike Bossy)
32.Most 60-or-more goal seasons: 5 (tied with Mike Bossy)
33.Most consecutive 60-or-more goals seasons: 4 from 1981–82 to 1984–85
34.Most 100-or-more point seasons: 15
35.Most consecutive 100-or-more point seasons: 13 from 1979–80 to 1991–92
36.Most three-or-more goal games, career: 50 -- 37 three-goal (hat trick) games; nine four-goal games; four five-goal games
37.Most three goal games, one season: 10 (done twice) in 1981–82 and 1983–84
38.Longest consecutive assist scoring streak: 23 games in 1990–91, 48 assists
39.Longest consecutive point-scoring streak: 51 Games in 1983–84 (October 5, 1983 to January 28, 1984, 61 goals, 92 assists for 153 points)
40.Longest consecutive point-scoring streak from start of season: 51 in 1983–84; 61 goals, 92 assists for 153 points (October 5, 1983 to January 28, 1984)
[edit] Playoff records (15)
1.Most playoff goals, career: 122
2.Most playoff assists, career: 260
3.Most assists, one playoff year: 31 in 1988 (19 games)
4.Most assists in one series (other than final): 14 (tied with Rick Middleton) in 1985 Conference Finals (six games vs. Chicago)
5.Most assists in final series: 10 in 1988 (four games, plus suspended game vs. Boston)
6.Most assists, one playoff game: 6 (tied with Mikko Leinonen) on April 9, 1987
7.Most assists, one playoff period: 3 -- Three assists by one player in one period of a playoff game has been recorded on 70 occasions. Gretzky has had three assists in one period five times
8.Most points, career: 382 -- 122 goals and 260 assists
9.Most points, one playoff year: 47 in 1985 (17 goals and 30 assists in 18 games)
10.Most points in final series: 13 in 1988 three goals and 10 assists (four games plus suspended game vs. Boston, three goals)
11.Most points, one playoff period: 4 (tied with nine other players)
12.Most short-handed goals, one playoff year: 3 (tied with five other players) 1983
13.Most short-handed goals, one playoff game: 2 (tied with eight other players) April 6, 1983
14.Most game winning goals in playoffs, career: 24 (tied with Brett Hull)
15.Most three-or-more goals games (hat trick): 10 (eight three-goal games, two four-goal games)
[edit] All-Star records (6)
1.Most All-Star game goals: 13 (in 18 games played)
2.Most All-Star game goals, one game: 4 (tied with three players) 1983 Campbell Conference
3.Most All-Star game goals, one period: 4 1983 Campbell Conference, third period
4.Most All-Star game assists, career: 12 (tied with four players)
5.Most All-Star game points, career: 25 (13 goals, 12 assists in 18 games)
6.Most All-Star game points, one period: 4 (tied with Mike Gartner and Adam Oates) 1983 Campbell Conference, third period (four goals)
Yes this is a very impressive list. But these records only show 1 thing: Mario and Wayne were the most prolific goal (and assist) scorers ever. It doesn't address the fact that they played in an era of high scoring and it doesn't say anything about comparing them to a Dman (like Orr) or a goaltender.
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I might give it a shot.
I sent my C.V. aiming to get picked in the 15th round.
1993-1999 - professional EA Hockey player.
1999-2004 - recreational EA Hockey player.
2005-2009 - occasional EA Hockey player.
2008 to present - Not so bad in the "Be a pro mode" in EA OK
2004 to present - Perenial contender in two Fantasy EHM leagues
2005 to present - Average results in Yahoo fantasy leagues
2006 to present - Average indoor hockey player (no hands but lots of will)
2001 to present - below-average ice hockey palyer (no skating, no shot, can only brake on one side, can skate backwards really slowly)
Before we consider spending a pick, I need to know which side.
Also doesn't this lead to frequent spinning?
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Interesting that the media is saying that Patrick Roy has been offered the head coaching job with the Colorado Avalanche, but he's denying that he's received a formal offer. Some in the media are suggesting that Patrick is holding out, waiting to receive an offer from the Canadiens. So an interesting question would be, could Patrick Roy coach the Canadiens and do well.
He has been co-owner, GM and coach of the Remparts and at that level in the QMJHL has done very well. Terry Frei, in the Denver Post, said that when Roy and the Remparts won the Memorial Cup in 2006 it was generally felt that Roy outcoached Ted Nolan, the NHL's coach of the year in 1997. So at that level Roy was very successful. He played in the NHL and was a superstar, so he obviously has a very good understanding of how the game is played.
However at the end of this past season, out of the 30 NHL head coaches, 11 had been major-junior head coaches before getting their first NHL head coaching position. The list includes Claude Julien, Mike Keenan, Paul Maurice, Ken Hitchcock, Mike Babcock, Peter DeBoer, Jacques Lemaire, Brent Sutter, Cory Clouston, Todd McLellan and Alain Vigneault. But the interesting part is that out of those 11 only 3 made the jump directly from coaching at the Junior level directly to the NHL.
Vigneault was a head coach in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League for eight seasons before he became the Canadiens' head coach in 1997.
Sutter also had been with the Western Hockey League's Red Deer Rebels, for eight seasons before jumping directly to the NKL with NJ. And DeBoers coached in the Ontario Hockey League for 13 seasons before going directly to the NHL and coaching the Florida Panthers a year ago. In addition, both Paul Maurice and Jacques Lemaire jumped to head coach in the NHL less than a year after coaching in junior. So maybe we could say 5 NHL coaches went directly or almost directly from head coaches in major junior to NHL head coaching jobs.
So just looking at history, making the jump from coaching a major junior team to being head coach in the NHL has been done, but not too often. I think owning and being the GM of a memorial cup winning team does say something regarding Roys ability to draft, select and put in place a team that has all the elements to win it all. That certainly shows that Roy has a very good understanding of what a team neeeds to be sucessful. But can he handle NHL players? If he can control his emotions, and not implode, I think he could. The question is, where we currently are as a team, can we risk installing a head coach with no proven NHL track record.
This is a common misconception. In my opinion many journeyman players have a better understanding of both how the game is played and how to coach players. Most superstars rely on their great skill and natural talents to succeed. This does not build deep understanding of how the game is played. Being an average or below average player means dealing with your coaches a lot and it leads to understanding fundamentals. Not very many superstars have made good coaches. There are a few exceptions (Toe Blake). Lafleur, a superstar, would make a terrible coach precisely because he doesn't understand how the game is played by non-stars.
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Capitalism works because it fuels competition. Competition pushes competing companies to keep developing better products to continuously outdo their competitors. If there was only one type of car made by one company, what incentive would there be to make it better? If they don't, it's not like the people can choose another car.
Example #1: The iPhone. Love it or hate it, this is a serious advancement in technology. Not just because of the touch screen, but the way it accomplishes so much with such a simple interface. This is a major step toward the 'universal device', if it isn't already that. It exists because Apple needed a way to stand out from the crowd of a million different cellphone, blackberry and mp3 player companies.
Example #2: The STM. It sucks. Like, really sucks. Is it going to get better? Nope. It's not being pushed by any competition. It pretty much has a monopoly on the public transit system here, so what's the worse that can happen if it doesn't seriously attempt to improve? Nothing. Either way, the people gotta fork over their money to use it anyways.
Also, it wasn't facism that drove the technological advances during the war, it was the war itself. Germany was quite literally in competition with the allies and if it wasn't pushed to outdo them, they wouldn't have stood a chance of winning.
Example #3 (From the news earlier this week). The government pays interest on taxes that corporations pay if it turns out that they overpaid. The current rate of interest the government pays exceeds what banks pay (3% vs 0.2% iirc). So businesses intentionally overpay and refuse to take money back and then insist (and receive) their extra 2.8% interest. This is money taken from citizens' taxes.
Capitalism may encourage competition but it also encourages greed and this sort of cheating. Many (most?) companies find it easier to cheat than to innovate.
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Crosby ain't a-comin, but one of the better theories floating around out there is that Bob should make a pitch for Jordan Staal, on the theory that he could step in as a top-line C. I don't know how high Staal's ceiling is, but that seems to me to be the right kind of idea.As for Plekanec, he definitely deserves a chance to redeem himself, but on the other hand, he might be more useful as trade bait in a package. If he doesn't redeem himself, you've just watched a significant asset devalue itself into dust. The question is whether he has the cojones to go into traffic and take the punishment, and he has yet to give an answer.
I definitely think Jordan Staal is a guy we should target. He's stuck behind Crosby and so not utilized to his full potential in Pittsburgh. This means we have a chance to pry him loose. If Pittsburgh
loses against Washington (or even in the ECF) they will probably be looking to make some changes. He won't come cheap but I think we could see a win-win deal for him.
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Would you want to live in China? I surely wouldn't. That being said, let's get back to the topic on hand, the financial situation of the Habs. If we want to continue this particular discussion, then take it to the Lounge.
I have no illusions that China is a great society. But the claim that Capitalism is doing well and in particular that all the other systems that have been tried have failed is just propaganda. It doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.
I agree, we should move this discussion to the lounge, (although I don't think I want to say anthing more than the previous paragraph) but perhaps a mod should split the thread.
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Yes.
The alternative has failed in every society it has been attempted.
Is that so? Why is it that the US is $11 trillion in debt ($7 trillion of this is government debt) and $1 trillion of it is owed to China?
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The league needs to fight Balsillie tooth and nail and they will. If he succeeds in his plan it will be very bad for the owners and the league. He is arguing that league rules are an unfair restraint on trade and that Southwestern Ontario has a right to another club and he has the right to make money by moving his team there. If he wins then any team can move anywhere. Maybe even I don't need an existing team to put a team in Toronto. What happens if LA announces they
are moving to St. John's? Suppose Atlanta decides they can do a better job of making money in Buffalo than the Sabres - just move in and undercut the Sabres until they are forced to move. Probably not a very good business plan but if the league cannot prevent it there might be someone dumb/stubborn enough to try.
The league knows that a team in Hamilton (say) would be very profitable. The owners could hold an auction if they wanted and sell an expansion franchise there for a lot of money. Instead Balsillie has a right to move there? How can the league hope to help out small market teams if any team can move whenever and wherever they want? Soon people will be buying up small market teams, moving them to big markets and then selling them for a quick profit. The league will have lost its ability to approve new owners. No business can operate successfully under these conditions.
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No team is built entirely from draft picks. If trades and free agent signings were forbidden then the way to draft would be to draft according to need. But in the NHL, teams draft the best players they can and then make trades or sign free agents to fill in the holes.
Sure right now we need a big centre and a power winger would help. But trying to draft players to fill these needs is very difficult. We will have 6 or 7 draft picks in June. The guy we pick in the first round will have about a 50% chance of making the NHL. Each of the rest has a much smaller chance of making it. If we pick 6 bruising forwards we won't know for 3 or 4 years which if any will make the team.
Now we can't really afford to wait that long. We need to acquire some big forwards now. This means we will make a trade and/or sign someone or a couple of guys to fill this role. Or maybe Pacioretti will develop into a star. In 3 or 4 years we may be desperately seeking a goalie or maybe a speedy sniper. It is almost impossible to know now what we will need in 2012.
The fact is, any pick not in the top 15 or so, is a gamble. The vast majority never make the NHL. For this reason you pick the guy you think is the best player available and hope you can develop him into an asset. Then you trade your assets to fill in the holes on your team.
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Why be a douche? It's a message board. Do you come here to observe discussions from the outside, chipping in with snide remarks? If you have something hockey-related to say, say it.
@the actual meaning of your post:
It is a misleading stat that leads to a skewed conclusion.
Now who is being a douche? and what do you mean "from the outside"? Are you part of an elite few who allowed to post in this thread? For that matter I have already posted earlier in this thread.
HabitForming made a great post providing a convincing statistic showing that contrary to the common wisdom Detroit's recent drafting has not been head and shoulders better than the Habs recent drafting. You don't agree - fine. Then you try to attack his stat by saying that it is "useless" solely because it contradicts your position. They you start name calling when someone points this out.
Balsillie Saga Continues
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
No, I am not "repeating their wild claim". I have read a lot of the legal documents. Their claim is not wild.
The City of Glendale has a contract with the Coyotes. This contract was designed to make it very expensive for the Coyotes to leave. The Coyotes (actually two companies associated with the Coyotes) signed this contract and it includes their agreement to pay a large amount of money (as much as $550 million) if they want to break the lease and leave early.
The fact that the arena cost $180 million is not really all that relevant to the claim that they are owed $550 million. I doubt that the judge will agree that they are owed that much but he might. Personally I think he will settle on a number more like $200 million. This still is much larger than the $90 million difference in the two bids.
It certainly makes it clear that saying $240 million is bigger than $150 million is "it".
No it is not just an "NHL rule". It is part of the contract that the current owner Moyes signed when he bought the team. Thus it is part of contract law and so not "trumped" by federal law.
It is only illegal if they reject Balsillie for discmininatory reasons. They have clearly stated their reasons for rejecting him. In fact they can reject him for any reason that is not discriminatory, they don't need a good reason. They have stated they didn't like the way he behaved when he tried to buy the Predators. They also don't like the way he is behaving in the current drama. Both of these reasons are legitimate legal reasons for them to reject him.
As I said above it is legal. The NHL is being very careful to avoid any behavior that would lead to an anti-trust case. In my opinion they have been successful and are unlikely to lose an anti-trust case based upon what has happened so far.
You are 100% correct here. However, as I said above the NHL is not rejecting Balsillie for discriminatory reasons.
Not even Balsillie's legal team has advanced the theory that he is being rejected for his nationality. Do you have any evidence (valid in court) for this claim?
Yes this has happened before. But is is irrelevant. The judge will decide who has the best valid bid.
The NHL has had 27 years to adapt to the Raiders case. They have adjusted to the law as it was stated in that case. The NFL, NBA, and MLB are all in court supporting the NHL's position. Also a very important fact here is that Davis moved a team he already owned. Balsillie's position is different in that he is not yet an approved owner.