Peter Puck
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Posts posted by Peter Puck
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I realise that but they way the Habs seem to draft is useless.
ex if Habs draft at 16th spot, and ranked 16th is a Dmen, 5-10, 188 lbs, 17th spot is a C, 6-4 220+ lbs
Which player do the Habs draft? Shock everybody and trade up 2 spots to sign the 5-7 168lbs C because he's higher ranked so therefore he must be better. Either way the last thing they apparently would do is draft the 6-4 220+ C. :puke:
Why dont they just selectively target the players that are ranked within 6-8 spots off of their draft position (2 up & 6 below) and scout the hell out those 8 and select the best 1 who plays a position they need right now.
Your example seems to suggest that we should draft the 6-4 220+ lbs centre. (Is this Turner Stevenson? It can't be Linday Vallis because we took him 13th overall not 16th. Possibly it is Matt Higgins, we took him 18th)
The 5-10 defenceman must have a lot of potential since he is ranked higher than the centre. Why take a lower ranked guy when you can get a higher one? What is the point of ranking?
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Boston is a good comparison. They have definitley drafted better than Montreal. If ya consider the drafts between 2003 and 2006
They drafted Mark Stuart, David Krejci, Patrice Bergeron, Phil Kessel, Denis Wideman and Milan Lucic that are all playing important mins for Boston
Montreal drafted The Kostitsns, Carey Price, Latendresse, and Pacioretty, halak in the same time.
Conclusions? Bostons players develop faster and are generally bigger. Seem find better deals in the later rounds Bergeron, Lucic and Wideman are not 1st rd picks
The definitley get wayyyy better free agents. Chara was a great addtion. Everyone thought they ovverpaid at the time. Nobody thinks that now. Wheeler didn't come from nowhere. Phenoix couldn't sign him so Boston did. Alot of teams in the league were chasing the kid and ya can see why. Hes an awesome talent. Wanna talk about Ryder? I don't Gainey Fuked that up and while were at it we can add firiing that certain coach that made sure Boston scooped him up.
Marc Savard was a fabulous pickup.
Montreal Samsonov, Laraque, Hamrlik,
Conclusions? Which free agents woulda rather have? Boston has way better free agent signings than Montreal.
No doubt that Boston has been better run in the past few years than Montreal has
Well I don't disagree too much, but I do think it is a mistake to anoint the Bruins as a successful team at this stage.
So far they haven't done anything Montreal didn't do last year. Let's see if they can get into the 3rd round. They could easily lose to the Hurricanes. If they don't make the cup finals this year they may turn out to be a flash in the pan.
Personally, I don't expect Ryder and Thomas to repeat this season's success next year.
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I think this argument that Carbo changed his lines too much is weak. The fact is, most coaches do that when the team struggles. Look at Alain Vigneault in Vancouver. When the Canucks were struggling with Luongo out, he was changing lines like crazy and being ripped for it. It's (basically) standard NHL practice and I don't think Carbo should be gassed for that. (Whether it's *good* practice is another matter. Personally, I think most coaches are way too micro-managing).
Kozed reiterates his well-established argument that the core of this team has killed coach after coach and that it's the players' fault. There may be some truth to this, although other than Koivu and Kovalev the personnel on this team has changed considerably from year to year, and it's dubious to attach too much continuity across a four or five season span. My rationale is somewhat simpler. If you took any coach, and watched every single key young player massively regress over the season; had a third overall team from the previous year suddenly start giving up 35-45 shots a night, night after night, with no improvement in sight; observe no discernable system or team identity; watch the losses pile up for weeks and months; watch the team's most talented player float around in confusion (Kovalev - admittedly a head case) to the laughable point where the GM has to step in; and factor in that the 2006-07 season was *also* damaged by similar issues of miscommunication and disorganized team play with the same coach; you'd see that coach getting canned. In other words, Carbo would have been fired by any other organization in the NHL. Probably a lot sooner than Gainey did it.
As for mentorship, I wouldn't disagree that there may be a void among the players themselves. (Guys like Markov and Kovalev are almost certainly lacking in this respect). But that just increases the need for very strong coaching in this regard. Carbo clearly as NOT a good communicator and therefore not a good mentor. That means he was not the right coach for this club at this time.
All of which is to re-affirm that coaching was a major issue this season and that we need a seasoned, proven coach with a track record of dealing with young players in here before we start blowing up the organization.
Finally, Gainey on self-criticism: you may be right, and if the Habs are not internally self-critical that is a grave problem. But we need to distinguish between self-criticism in public and in private (or within the organization). I don't assess a GM based on what he shares with the media, unless it's directly relevant to his job performance; e.g., if he says something brilliant or incredibly stupid. But that Gainey has not adopted a True Confessions approach to media relations is, again, irrelevant in my book.
This is a insightful and accurate analysis of the situation.
Very well thought out and expressed. People need to stop trying to attach all the blame to a single factor or person.
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My assessment at the start of the year was that Lang was not good enough. We needed a guy like Sundin and Lang was all we could get. While Lang was great amid the mess of the rest of our forwards, we needed that top centre in a big way. I liked Tanguay.
I never thought we were an elite team last year or this year. I have always said we are a playoff team which is not built for the playoffs. We needed to get some more grit and size on the top 2 lines, not the bottom 2.
As for Montreal being a hard sell, I agree, but I think we need the kind of GM that can convince people to come here anyway. I don't think Gainey's style is conducive to this. In a way, we need more of a salesman then a quiet thinker. I also sense he is slow to make offers and decisions, which turns off many top players.
Finally, the way he has treated our UFAs this year is not good and will make it even harder to sign anyone this year. (I suspect that Gainey might have been forced into this by Gillet, but who knows for sure).
Well in my opinion Lang turned out much better than Sundin. Lang was one of our best forwards, possibly the best.
Sundin hasn't been much of a factor in Vancouver, especially considering his salary. Here are their stats for this year:
Lang 51 games, 18 goals, 21 assists, 39 points.
Sundin 41 games, 9 goals, 19 assists, 28 points.
How people can blame Gainey for this is beyond me. Even if you prefer Sundin (I admit that I did) what more do you expect Gainey to do to get him? You say he is slow to make offers, but he was the fastest of all the GMs to make an offer to Sundin.
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Okay I have a MacBook Pro (and a Mac Powerbook and a Mac G5). I switched to Apple about 2000 and I would never go back. I still have a PC (for work) which is 18 months old and it is way more of a headache than the Macs combined. Plus in the long run I find Macs cheaper. When I had PCs I had to upgrade every 3 years or so because lots of software would become obsolete over a few years and the machine would always become unstable. My Mac Powerbook from 2000 is still runnning fine but it is too slow and now that I would like a new battery they are no longer sold by Apple. Still I have had no regrets. My Macs crash about once every 4 months (if even that often). My PCs would crash on a daily or weekly basis after they were two years old. My newest Mac is 5 years old and I am thinking I should buy another or else get a bigger hard disk. 80 GB is no longer enough.
Most of my PC experience is 10 years out of date so maybe things are better now.
I bought the software to run Windows stuff but I actually never use it. There are some programs only available for windows.
Finally you asked about the MacBook Air. I'll say this: if you need a compter that will fit into an envelope the MacBook Air is the unrivaled.
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Ummm, what are you guys talking about? So, if a goalie doesn't win the cup by 22, he will never be a good goalie? You mean like Luongo? Nabokov? Kiprusoff? Man, those guys sure do suck, don't they?
jackp, save percentage doesn't mean a whole lot. What about when a goalie faces 20 shots in a game, but most of those chances are real high-quality chances? Compare that to a goalie who has to face 35 shots, but they are all perimeter shots because he's more well defended. You see how that can easily skew the stats?
Also, so what if Habs got beat by Thomas who only made the playoffs when he was 33? Does that make him any less of a goalie? No, it doesn't. Despite what people say on these boards that are obviously anti-Boston, he is a great goalie and will probably be a Vezina finalist, possibly winner. And since we are so interested with stats suddenly, I should note that he finished 1st in SV% and GAA in the regular season.
Hi FG,
I guess I need to make my sarcasm more evident. I thought it was pretty clear when I said
" There really haven't been any good NHL level goalies who didn't win the cup in their first year (or at least their second)." Just to be sure I even added: "Actually, if you look through history you will only find a one or two goalies who hadn't won the cup by age 22 and still managed to change themselves into worthwhile goalies." I thought someone might be able to refute this last statement - although I see you cited 3 current guys. (Also Wamsley01 seems to have a few guys too)
P.P.
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I didn't watch that series but if Mason's save percentage was .870, then he WAS largely responsible for their loss. As to the Columbus fans... they were happy just to get into the playoffs and, let's face it, they know very little about hockey. To compare them with Montreal fans is ludicrous. Even the players say that Montreal fans are the most knowledgeable in the NHL. You're just not happy with their collective opinion of Price right now.
As far as "crucifying a young kid" is concerned... Patrick Roy won a Cup in his first year. So did Dryden. You're living in a dream world if you think Price is suddenly gonna get a lot better. People don't change too much. Price will continue to be a hot and cold goalie, who has a hard time facing pressure.
JMHO
Right, stats do tell the whole story. In fact, the stats prove that the real reason Montreal lost was their 0.054 shooting percentage. To say nothing of their 1.5 goals per game. Goalies just sag when they see this sort of performance by their team's forwards.
As far as people never changing, once again you hit the nail on the head. There really haven't been any good NHL level goalies who didn't win the cup in their first year (or at least their second). Actually, if you look through history you will only find a one or two goalies who hadn't won the cup by age 22 and still managed to change themselves into worthwhile goalies. Only people living in a dream world can't see this. This even points out how truly bad our forwards were when you consider they were playing a goalie who never even made the playoffs until he was 33.
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The upcoming 3 number one picks
(2010-2011-2012)
He needs to keep those (and the 2013 pick) for his upcoming RFA offersheet signing of Kyle Wellwood.
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Okay the season is over and we made the playoffs. Here are the final positions in the annual prediction contest. This year's winner is Zowpeb.
1. Zowpeb
2. Dalhabs
3. BCHabnut (tie)
3. Nesquik (tie)
5. marky and komi
6. JMMR
7. fromage
8. Syn
9. Wamsley01
10. Bth (tie)
10. JoeLassister (tie)
10. Peter Puck (tie)
13. xXx..CK..xXx
14. les glorieux (tie)
14. CerebusClone (tie)
16. Dutch Habs Fan
17. Macaskill
18. Habitforming
19. Koivu11
20. geolink
21. I<OV4L3V
22. sbhatt
23. saskhab (tie)
23. Habsfan (tie)
25. lazy26
26. ch_nl (tie)
26. Jean (tie)
28. Helmethead
29. brboo (tie)
29. simonus (tie)
30. johhnyhasbeen
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Having one guy with deep pockets like Gillette has lots of advantages. In particular, Gillette is pretty much immune from public/media pressure to make changes. This is really important. We already have too many media types trying to influence how the team is run. Too many cooks spoil the broth.
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The OHL released their annual coaches poll a couple of days ago.
The coaches vote for the top player in their conference in a number of categories.
Not surprisingly Subban was picked as Best Offensive Defenceman in the East. However, he
was second in voting for Best Defensive Defenceman. He was top 2 in 4 of the categories.
Best Offensive Defenceman
P.K Subban, Belleville (39)
Cameron Gaunce, Mississauga (22)
Calvin de Haan, Oshawa (17)
Best Defensive Defenceman
Cameron Gaunce, Mississauga (31)
P.K Subban, Belleville (19)
Julien Demers, Ottawa (17)
Best Playmaker
Matt Duchene, Brampton (28)
P.K Subban, Belleville (24)
Calvin de Haan, Oshawa (12)
Hardest Shot
P.K Subban, Belleville (33)
Cody Hodgson, Brampton (20)
Brett Parnham, Oshawa (12)
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the possibility is that we had a great coach making his team a lot better than they were (I know you wont be able to get you head around that idea) and now the chickens have come to roost. however it is much easier to say it is the coach than actually evaluate the team. Again think back 2 or 3 coaches we had the same problems. You might want to reference the fact that this is bob's second time behind the bench. When exactly do we make the players responsible for their poor play? does it take 3 coachs 5 10 I don't know. but we were winning when he was fired.
Yeah right, this team which has looked horrible for months (5 wins in their last 23 games) is actually much worse. The only reason we did anything at all was that Carbo is such a great coach. Give your head a shake. That makes a lot of sense. If this is true then Carbo is the best coach in the history of the nhl since he got an even weaker team to finish first last year.
Maybe, there is quite a bit of talent on this team and that's why they were able to finish 1st last year (I know you won't be able to get you head around that idea) and we need a coach who can get them to play at something like the level they are capable of.
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so you are saying that last year was fluke? because i remember 1st place and a possible jack adams. Suddenly the system failed? so it didn't have anything to do with all the injuries? nothing to do with price slumping? as all young goalies are prone to do. Had nothing to do with Kovy pouting in the corner? He's been doing that since he came in the league. Nothing to do with koivu being on the downside and not being centre we need? The power play needing a hard accurate shot from the point and not having it? No the system failed and it is all carbos fault I gotcha. forgive my ignorance. I thought we had real conundrum here and it was all so simple fire that damn Carbo. I wonder why it makes no difference who coaches this team (think back a couple of coaches). Oh well we got the guy now.
So we're healthy now (except for Lang). We have the hard accurate shot from the point but the PP still sucks. That's why we've starting playing so well lately.
The fact that we've been giving up 40 shots regularly for months has nothing to do with the coach I guess or the system we use. If both goalies can't maintain the same level as last year when facing 33% more shots they must be slumping. The fact that all 4 lines completely crumble under forechecking pressure, this is probably just due to Koivu losing a step. The fact that we allow teams to keep the puck in our zone if they stay along the boards, that's because Kovalev is having a bad year I suppose. Forgive my ignorance. The fact that just about everyone on the team has regressed that has nothing to do with the coach either. The coach is great, it just that his team can't do anything. I'd rather we find a lousy coach who can improve the team than a great coach who has the team regressing.
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well actually up untill the all star break they did know exactly what to do. So I guess carbo got confused over christmas and passed the virus onto the team. My god man do you remember last year?
Yes I do. Do you remember the last 3 months? And this problem didn't start at the all star break, we've been slipping since the season started.
We were 8-1-1 in the first 10 games.
The problem is other teams have adjusted to Carbo's system and we haven't made any changes to handle their adjustments. When a whole entire team starts to suck at once you have to ask yourself, is it 23 players (okay maybe just 20) failing all at once spontaneosly or maybe there is something wrong with the system they are using.
Why is it that we are constantly forechecked and pinned into our own zone for minutes at a time throughout whole periods? And this is all 4 lines. Its been increasingly apparent since November that we need a new system and that falls on the coach's head.
If you think everything was fine with Carbo, why was the team 8-11-1 under him after the break?
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I'm going to close my eyes cross my fingers and say in. Florida will choke and Miller's injury will sink the Sabres.
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The fact we still suck is proof to me that Carbo is not the answer. This way this team plays is still largely the result of his coaching. Gainey has been the coach for 2 weeks and can't have changed too much. If the team had taken off (like say the Penguins) then I would say that a bunch of players were dogging it under Carbo trying to get him fired. What we see instead is a team where no one knows what to do, where to play, when to pinch, etc. Is this the result of Gainey handling the team for 2 weeks or Carbo for 2 years?
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Let me say something on Gaborik. I was watching a Minnesota feed the other day. Thye found out that his constant groin problems actually turned out to be a hip problem which has been fixed now. Next year he should completely healthy with out groin injuries.
So he is a supreme goal scoring talent with speed. I would go 5-6 mill with incentives for him.
He is said to be asking 9-10 million.
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A number of people here think Gainey is doing a lousy job managing our UFA's. They want to clean house and make wholesale changes over the summer by signing a new crop of UFA's. I'm looking at you Chris and at you marty_and_komi among others.
I think our UFA's are mostly better than anything we can expect to replace them with.
So who are the good UFA's out there you plan to get to replace all of our current UFA's? You've got 25 million to spend once we release all our UFA's.
You will need to repace 2 centres (Koivu, Lang), 3 wingers (Kovalev, Tanguay, Kostopoulos) and 4 Dmen (Komisarek, Bouillion, Brisebois, Dandenault, Schneider).
Here is a good list of UFA's. I am not very impressed with the available talent but you are. So suggest who you would sign and for how much. But ... remember only 1 out of 4 will be willing to sign here. Don't just say Boumeester - he's probably going home to the west. If you want to sign a right winger don't just say Gaborik you need to list at leasty 4 right wingers so we have a reasonable chance to sign one. And your plan should allow for the top 2 right wingers on your list to reject us - we may have to settle for the 3rd or 4th best available.
Edited: corrected (silly) mistake of listing Lapierre as a UFA
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Beats me, but now they have the cap space and the cash to overpay some players. The young talent is still on the team. They have room for about 4 new vets to come in and take the team to a new level.
Obviously some players won't sign,
But there are alot of good UFA's and not too many teams with alot of cap space. Teams like the Rangers, Flyers, Flames, etc won't be able to sign or resign too many people.
Boumeester
Camalari
Gaborik
Neil
Hartnall
are all out there and there are some other good ones as well. In reality the habs only need 3-4 new players to change the culture
This is the team with know one signed. So they really need a couple of top end players and a top D.
I don't consider this a very good crop of players. There will be very few good centres available (Sedin, Cammallari and Morrrow are all I see). Signing Sedin requires signing his brother - not neccesarily a bad thing but expensive. Boumeester would be great but I expect he will want to sign out west. Cammallari is one more small forward - not what we really need.
Gaborik would be great but he will be expecting 9 or 10 million per year.
What other good FA's are there? I'd list Hossa and Havlat. Basically everyone else is not as good as our own free agents.
Plus there are bound to be at least 10 other teams in the hunt. Even if you think players are not opposed to coming to Montreal we still need to outbid many other teams. What are the chances we can sign 4 good free agents even with Gainey. I'd say almost nil. Without Gainey, we are sunk in the free agent hunt this summer.
Plus your assumption that Emelin will come over, make the team and play well is optimistic. All three of these things might happen but they might just as easily not.
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We have an overall sophomore slump, they're not all sophomores, some are older than that... but I'm pretty sure Komisarek, Price, Higgins, Kost will all be extremely better next season.
This is exactly right. I think everyone would agree that the talent on this year's team is better than last year's. They are struggling now but there are too many good players for this to continue indefinitely. Maybe this year will end badly but we will be much better next season.
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Well, technically since he never signed with the team, he falls into the unrestricted free agent category. Morbid, yes, but you can't blame them.
Nope. Being dead means he is not a free agent (under the law). He is a corpse now not a person and so is not a free agent and not eligible to be drafted. I know this is ghoulish but the law is clear. This is why the league needs the player's association's permission to give the compensatory pick to the Rangers.
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I was a big fan of Jokinen and wanted a push for him. Look at Calgary now, he's done wonders.
Brendan Morrow, he'll rebound. I'm sure he would make a great ctr. Of course, won't be available, but he could play behind Vinny...
Regrettably, Higgins has never been the same since his injury; but he was always a no-hands, work-ethic guy with little hockey sense. He follows the play always always always.
Well he is certainly putting up the points. But I don't think he has done any wonders yet: Calgary is 2-4-0 since the trade deadline. They've allowed 28 goals against in those 6 games.
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Wheeler never re-entered the draft though, signed as a UFA in Boston. I'd like to guess that the others were AJ Thelen (MIN) and RJ Umberger (NYR after his rights were dealt from VAN) - neither of them re-entered the draft either, although the rule does apply to a player like that as well. Come to think of it, I think Lars Jonsson (BOS) was a 1st rounder who never signed either...
Okay, you prompted me to lookup the wording.
Here it is:
CBA Article 8.3(b) (b) In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice
drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft (except as a result of failing to tender a
required Bona Fide Offer (as defined below)), who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or
becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically
be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical
choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club
loses such rights. By way of example, if a Club cannot sign the third pick in the first
round, it will receive the third pick in the second round as compensation.
Since Cheraponov is dead he is ineligible to be drafted (nor is he an unrestricted free agent) and so a careful reading of the rules makes the Rangers out of luck. However, my understanding is that the GMs have asked the player's association for permission to change this so that the Rangers can be given the 47th pick in June. As I said before, I think this is the right thing for the league to do.
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I don't think we can afford to be too fussy, to be honest. The Muller example proves that you don't need to have a completely dominant, world-beating 6'4 number one centreman to win. I'm no fan of this Superstar Complex. It would be nice, but we don't need a superstar. What we do need is a legitimate #1 C; if not a Lecavalier, then a Bobby Smith, a Kirk Muller, even a Pierre Turgeon, going forward. Spezza, the Sedins, Jokinen, they'd all be vastly better than what we've got (which is nobody). As long as we're not acquiring that player and annointing him The Saviour, asking him to single-handedly carry us to glory, and as long as we're paying a reasonable rather than ridiculous salary, there is no reason why those second-tier #1 C can't be major contributors on excellent, contending teams, especially since we seem to have a lot of good wingers on the team and in the system.
The Sedins in particular would interest me. Two elite players, neither paid near the league maximum? And they'd work with Gainey's 'family' philosophy too. If Gainy, God help me, is still with the team when it's time to make the call. :puke:
Okay I agree we don't require a superstar centre. Getting the Sedins would be okay. They would probably cost 6-7 million each per year for about 4 years. Spezza's got 6 more years at 7 million per year. I don't like that much for so long for him. Finally, I don't think we will go after Jokinen since he will probably cost more over the summer than at the deadline and Gainey apparently doesn't like him.
Lets have a little fun: Montreal drafting, what could have been: Questioning of drafting soo many US kids!
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
This is a wonderful point of view. Any statistic which contradicts your opinion is useless since it lends support to something that must be false.