hockeyrealist
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Posts posted by hockeyrealist
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Récent gazette article refers to trading the 3rd overall as a package to get immediate, professional centre. I like that idea as third overall is underwhelming imo.
Dahlin and svechnikov are thé only two this year.
Problem is where does this centreman come from? Not many available without trading a golden goose (price)
Id unload anyone beside price, Weber and Gallagher along with the 3 rd overall for a #1 c. And I’d consider Weber for right price as well.
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In a galaxy far, far away Plex goes to Tampa as suggested for the one and only hope for the rebellion, sergachev.
as bergy planned all along.
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59 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
Yes...the reason I haven't engaged with this thread is that Ben's piece is so thoughtful and sensible, I find little to disagree with or add to! One thing I really enjoyed were the reflections on Byron. I for one tend to think of him as younger than he is; and while he is one of my favourite players on this pathetic crew, he's a classic case of a guy whose game will absolutely disintegrate when he loses a step. Ideally, I think, we'd keep him for one more year then flip him at the deadline. He could really add a lot to a contender IMHO, playing the role of 'secret weapon' who scores unexpected, morale-crushing goals.
Agreed all around.
a friend pointed out return on investment for Byron this year would be sick from an investment standpoint.
Could be same thing for Benn too.
some teams will over pay for these guys this year in hopes of making a push and there is no reason to hold them as their return will most likely onmy diminish.
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2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
Patches is 29. You think he'll still be elite in five years? Please. And you think he'll throw away millions of dollars again just to please Bergevin? Please, again.
This is not about blame. It's about asset management as far as I'm concerned.
Well the original commment said 3-4 years, but yes I believe he has the skills and physical strength to be a strong contributor into his thirties. But it all comes down to cost.
i don’t think he cares about Bergevin but I do think he cares about family stability as he’s come out and said. And I believe him when he says he wants to be part of the solution in Mtl.
the returns people on the site expect for him are ludicrous and what he would return now is unacceptable.
nobody is giving a young future #1 C and more for him which is the consensus on what is acceptable from this site.
That is asset management, PLEASE...
a player people here say is garbage and needs to go cause he’s washed up at 29 is going to somehow bring back 2-3 future core pieces???
Nevermind he is and has been the habs onlyconsistwnt threat and therefore easy to target for shut down down by other teams. Get him some support as a contender would have for him and he is elite.
Is he worth 7 million into his 30’s, not imo but if he will stay for 6 I think the value is better to keep him. If team continues to suck he is still a valuable commodity at 31 with a fair price tag.
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39 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
It's funny how Patches seems to work best with guys who are anything but legitimate top-6 talents at C. He's had the best chemistry with DD and Danault. Indeed, that chemistry deludes some of us into thinking that those guys are acceptable #2 C. But give Patches a guy with skill like Drouin and disaster ensues.
Drouin isn’t a centre tho, so that is part of the problem.
give max a north-south centre with speed and watch him flourish.
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On 2018-01-18 at 11:53 PM, Link67 said:
Do we REALLY want to be the team who traded away 2 franchise goalies in their prime during the last 25 years? That worked out so well last time, I am sure it won't sting as bad as the first time to watch Price go have success elsewhere while we turn into a filthy pit of despair and embarrassment, right guys? ....guys?
Finally a voice of reason.
imagine the bitch fest this site would be when price is celebrating his second cup with another team.
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I love how even a gdt turns into a ‘’trade so and so’’ pouting party on here.
Also love how commentors assume we can flip just about any player for young talent, as though teams are just dying to give up young twenty somethings that they’ve begun grooming.
How about the team explores the idea that Max (who apparently loves Mtl, just moved downtown with his young family) accepts another sweet deal of a contract and we hold onto the only certified goal scorer we’ve had in the past Oh maybe a decade.
Hes still quite young and by moving the bloated Contracts of Plex and Shaw at least combined with available cap space try to find a decent centre or even two mediocre ones and stop trying to love our only offensive weapons. You’d think we were an offensive powerhouse the way commentors are calling for trades of max and Galchenyuk.
How about supply them with some talent regardless of their native tongue and let them bloom like any other team would.
the d Corp needs to be blown up but max is still relatively young, a proven offensive talent and has shown enormous patience, accountability and leadership (yes I know it is rare to hear that) in the way he has handled the teams and his own failure this year.
He shouldn’t have been made captain but that isn’t his fault, this team should have stuck with four assistants. He has worn the c with pride, dealt with media with upmost patience and honesty and I really think the added pressure of that affected his game and once that pressure reduced a bit as everyone wrote off the season he was able to hold the stick a little looser and find some puck luck.
Pax, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Drouin, lekonen, Huron make a great top nine winger set. Trade Shaw and Plex, and being in some centre help and this team is not far from competing for years to come.
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13 hours ago, Stogey24 said:
Schlemko makes the worst pinches. I've been noticing it for a while. Badly exposed tonight
Deslauire= Weise
Except he punches with serious power the few times I’ve seen him go. Weise brought some physicality but Desl is another level of strength and viciousness it appears.
Hes grown on me, check out the scrap with Rinaldo I believe to see a good example of how hard he throws them. Def a good reminder to opposition to keep it in line.
Either way if you’re only bringing a few goals to the table you’d better bring something else. Scary that some of my fave habs players to watch this year are fourth liners.
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19 hours ago, sbhatt said:
I miss the days when the anticipation was PK or Emelin lining up a Bruin for a big hit. Emelin's hip checks on Lucic were always a moment of pure joy.
Agreed but the Bruins are much quicker now and I see Emmy getting left behind as they blow by him these days. Lucic wouldn’t be able to keep up on the current roster.
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When I look at the lineup, and forget the past few months of play, the forward group looks like it could be competitive with four fast lines and some skill. Could wreak havoc for opposing d.
Obv this hasn’t been the case for any sustained period. Makes me consider what is causing this and why the team hasn’t solved it. Of course easy answer is lack of #1 C , but I personally think that damage can be overcome or minimized at least.
To the eye test it seems there is too much perimeter play and shooting with a lack of pressure on the opposing net. Lots of ‘’one and done’’, lots of shots but not enough high quality chances? Need some net drive, puck hounds. Ideally not just Gallagher.
Looks like a lack of smooth entries dues to weak outlet passes, which aren’t catching our fleet-footed forwards in stride? Obv we had that for 900 plus games in #79. Gave away a couple possible replacements and haven’t recovered yet.
Thats what I see and would address with some roster adjustments and intensive coaching.
The d corps presently is scary though.
Mete and Schlemko pairing seems like a high risk situation (as do the rest haha), hopefully the high reward makes it worthwhile.
The top d in the lineup tonight would ideally be a #4 depth-wise?
Optimistically, I am hoping that a few big game challenges like this next bunch are, is what it takes for this group to rally around each other and hit one of those 10-12 game win streaks that we’ve missed this year and make a season of this yet.
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On 2017-12-30 at 4:00 PM, xXx..CK..xXx said:
I don’t know about the math you guys are doing, but the Habs are still in it. It won’t be until about the 60th game where death will truly be able to be pronounced. I was pessimistic heading into the season, and it doesn’t mean people are wrong but we’re 38 games into the season and 10 points out of the playoffs. People use numbers like 96 but maybe this year, a historically low number will get in. Right, then there’s the issue that we won’t get past round one anyway. I guess negatively is the only way to look at it...
I love and respect your positive outlook but watching these games doesn’t Instill much confidence.
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If we had shipped an established problem player who went to a new team and barely produced for a very young dman who even cracked and held a roster spot at that age we would be singing bergy’s praises so on the reverse side I think any criticism is justified.
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22 hours ago, illWill said:
Sergachev has Norris potential all of the sudden?
It's a bit of a stretch to say we traded away a potential Norris winner. I could easily say he could be out of the league in 5 years. The likely scenario though is that he will become a really good defenseman and Drouin will become a really good forward. This is what the trade was. This team needed, and still needs offense
Good point but right now it sure looks like the ceiling for sergachev is a lot higher than Drouins given his seniority and performance this season.
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22 hours ago, Link67 said:
Correct, lets look at them as any other player, lets first remove the expectations we have preconceived for Sergachev because we drafted him as low as we did. Lets just look at him as any other 19 year old Dman, playing a role on a team. With that said, is Sergachev playing a role as big, and creating as big of an impact individually on his Team's Defence as guys like Ekblad and Werenski did at the same age? Those are the real Future Norris Guys, so before we start Thrusting the kid into that pack, while he is barely averaging 15min per night, lets evaluate his surroundings better, and see if they are not contributing to most of the early success he is having before propping him up on the golden chair and deeming the trade a disaster after a mere 3 months of hockey.
Good point but fact is he is excelling and Drouin is not . If it because of how he is being handled, good on the team. Why can’t Mtl handle Drouin to flourish also?
Instead we forced him into a role he wasn’t suited for and continue to lack accountability for his lack of production, if it because of how he is handled than coaching and mgmnt are to blame, if it because he isn’t as good as we were told he is then mgmnt is to blame. If he isn’t in shape or mentally prepared then he and staff are to blame. Regardless he isn’t performing and sergachev is. Results are all that matter in the NHL.
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23 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
A top-4 defenceman on a top contender at age 19.
Rationalize it away all you want, guys, but that is seriously impressive.
If it were any other player than Sergachev, we'd all be looking on going, 'wow, Norris potential for sure.'
Similarly, if we were outside looking in at Drouin, we'd be saying, 'hey, great skills, probably will be a 70-point winger, ceiling at C far from clear, may not really be a C at all.'
Like I say, right now it looks as though we traded a potential Norris candidate for an average top-3 FW. I hate to say it, but that is the common-sense, face-value assessment of this deal, it seems to me - once we drop all the special pleading and look at it the way we'd look at any other two players.
This comment nails it!
Any Norris candidate talk is premature imo but not impossible and kind of irrelevant as nobody is ever going to mention drouins name for any trophies so kind of moot point imo. Winning is all that matter and right now sergachev is on a winner who has a brighter future than he had in Mtl.
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Lots of good points made in the recent posts here.
IMO Drouin would not be part of a top 3 threat in Tampa as he was already out of favour there and they have depth that wouldn’t force them to play him there. Stammer, Kucherov, namestikov and Point would most likely still be their go to guys simply because Drouin was a problem player and really only got opportunities when injuries arose.
Some very smart hockey people there saw problems with his game, particularly as a C so I do not believe he would be shining there.
to say Sergachev is being played solely to ensure the lightning don’t appear to have lost on the deal is a stretch IMO once again, no professional team with sights on a cup are going to sacrifice chances to win just to protect their image. They could easily let him develop for 4-5 years before giving him the chances he’s gotten and not looked bad. Dmen rarely get the chances he’s had at his age and it is the same smart hockey people deciding he is more valuable in a sheltered role on an NHL Team that slowly developing in minors.
The lightning shrewdly saw an opportunity to leverage Mtl’s desperate need for offense and unloaded an expendable (but still valuable asset) to fill a need. Bergy got taken advantage of, plain and simple. It was obv Drouin was not a key piece of Tampa’s future, yet Sergachev was a key piece of Mtl’s as is evident with the porous d corps and minimal prospects to look forward to.
unless Drouin came in and performed like a true #1 Centre (wins draws, min 60 points) this was a bad deal strictly in that Mtl doesn’t have enough d prospects to justify shipping out the best and most NHL ready (even if it had been a few more years for him to actually fulfill that role).
Aside from the odd eye catching move Drouin has not impressed at all and I see 100% why he was deemed expendable in TB. Not to mention the optics of being a cry baby in the way he handled limites playing time and demotions.
He hadn’t earned the right to demand anything.
If anything Mtl is the team that is stuck trying to justify the trade and now are stuck with him as a C because they so proudly stated that he was the answer we’ve been waiting for. Same reason we’re stuck watching our most gifted offensive player (yes #27 is more gifted offensively than Drouin, better finisher at least) playing wing.
Mtl postured that they were in “win now” mode but in reality that is false since they didn’t do all they needed to maintain two of last years (and more in Markys case) best players in markov and Rads.
Win now mentality would have meant riding Markov until his legs gave out and offering whatever it took to keep rads as anyone who saw him play last year knows he brought the heart and energy of Gallagher with more skill and natural ability. What more could you want?
I was optimistic that Drouin would rise to the occasion but that is far from the case and I have been seriously underwhelmed by his performance and see litttle chance of that changing given his track record, history of attitude and lack of accountability. Why is it only pax who has to answer for lack of offense, rarely see the press confronting Drouin about his lack of production and team failures. Even though he doesn’t wear a letter he was brought in to be an answer and doesn’t seem to be expected to respond as to why he hasn’t been better.
unless Drouin goes on to have 3 straight 70+ point seasons (after this one since it is essentially over) with a positive +/- and making his teammates better around him I think this deal was a loss for the habs given lack of prospects and total lack of mobile puck-moving d in the organization. And I highly doubt he has that in him. Hopefully I am wrong, which has occurred before haha.
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3 hours ago, Commandant said:
Its not just shots on goal.... its on down the list.... corsi.... scoring chances, etc..... The Devils had plenty of scoring chances on their pps, and the Habs didn't get much on their PPs. But 5v5 the Habs were a better team.
The tough play was the first 5 minutes and the PPs.... but it wasn't 50 minutes like you claimed, and it wasn't a game the Habs got badly outplayed in.
Interesting points about the stats and our biases made throughout the thread.
Admittedly, I felt the devils carried the majority of the play, seemed they caused more havoc for cp31 than Habs did for Schneider and seemed to get more extended zone time, made better passes and generally weren’t embarrassing on the pp as well as having a strong pk. But I am a biased Habs fan. Felt Habs worked their way to even play as game progressed but now must consider this in a different light
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5 hours ago, Commandant said:
Froese had a terrible game yesterday.
I'd put De la rose in for him next game.
Just watched Tory Mitchell score as I read that.
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Plenty of blame to go around.
what caught my eye particularly was in 3rd period, still 3-0 game. Not out of reach yet.
4th line shift actually breaks out of own zone, des lauriers puts a shot off the goalie and out of play. TV time out ensues followed by an offensive zone draw.
Who is on the ice?
Our 4th line, wtf?
Could maybe see it if it was a 4th line that consistently held pressure, established cycle...Maybe then, but habs fourth line has none of that, yet there they are when we need a goal.
not that the rest of team is tearing it up but why the heck weren’t one of our offensive lines (if that exists) put out for that face off? De la rose isn’t exactly Mr. BigDrawWinner and hasn’t scored since he was in midget hockey.
Lots of terrible going on, but coaching moves like that aren’t gonna kick off a come back.
I’ve stopped letting my four year old watch habs games with me as I don’t want him picking up bad habits haha.
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Think Montoya put the pin in this topic with his play and result last night. He has proved more than capable, take away the blowout outlier last year against Columbus and his numbers are very respectable since part of mtl.
he is fine, relatively cheap, happy to be the backup. It was never a problem for price previously to have little internal competition so to bring that up now is a moot point.
Really trying to drag this thread along though.
Backup goalies (goalies in general given the prospects) are far from the problem in Mtl.
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Flynn on third line...is going to get eaten alive, he gets smoked in regular season games. This series has been so physical he is surely going to be messed up by girardi at some point.
seems to take a licking and keep on ticking tho. Would think Mitchell had earned that 3rd line center spot with shaw out.
Not surprised n8 has regressed once Benn was put with petry.
Anyone playing with Emelin seems to have to carry the weight or suffer, third pairing is scary AF now no matter who is there since Benn took a top 4 spot. N8 has looked worse each game, left no other choice.
price needs to steal us one, Galchenyuk breaks the slump, patches hits an empty netter to Get him going.
2-0 habs
love that lady
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How is King still in the lineup night after night? I've yet to be impressed one bit, he should at least pummel anyone who comes near our MVP CP31 to serve some purpose.
As for Marky sitting, I see the point but isn't this why he had an extended break earlier this season? So he could make this stretch run, since we don't need the points I see value on sitting him but also see the benefit of keeping him in game shape. Tough call and probably be a no brainer if d corps wasn't already depleted.
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19 hours ago, THE Bobby Orr said:
i wish Petry had some of Beaulieu's willingness to stickup for teammates...specifically when Price get's pushed around.
Just throwing this out there ...but why hasn't Beaulieu been paired with Weber? Or Markov? Or have those experiments happened already?
Beau played most of the start (10-20 games) of this season partnered with Weber and was given plenty of opportunity to assert himself as a top pair partner.
i think we will have to accept the downside of his play, which is his mental gaffes, for the upside which is his offensive instinct which is beginning to show and his willingness to defend teammates.
Someone mentioned seeing him as a fourth dman and second pp wave, which I see as well.
if the young defensive prospects come up quickly then he could and should be moved as a package for skilled forward.
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So this has degenerated into a Subban vs Weber thread again I see.
so I wade in.
Subban is great, but to say he drove transition game is a crock, his constant whirly dirvish spins and rushes did little to help forward progress. His "me against the other team" mentality was exciting to watch and it was great to get the crowd excited with a big rush yet they more often resulted in a turn over and him out of position than any real offensive threat.
and we won't see Weber argue with the refs while the opponents skate in for an easy goal like subby did when the ref dared be in the way of a loose puck.
team first mentality wins cups.
that being said, there are still too many holes on the backend and a consistent lack of top 6 talent. None of these issues are caused by Weber nor created by Subby's departure.
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2018 draft thread
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
Only proven centre who I see being available is oreilly.
What the price would be? No idea but more I think about it the more i think he could handle the job and is only true elite(?) centre that may be available.
id trade third overall for him. But would prolly have to throw in a player, maybe a dman given buffalos roster needs? They are pretty deep at centre and had ROR slotted on third line at end of season.