The best you've seen

[Leafs Suck]

I am not limiting this discussion to just the NHL, I am sure some of our European posters have seem some greats who haven't played in the NHL so they're free to use those players as well.

I often find myself arguing with people on who the greatest player was. It's hard for me to argue for guys like Richard, Howe, Orr and Gretzky in Edmonton because I never saw them play. So I can only base my argument on players I've seen and this is exactly what this thread is for.

Who is/are the greatest forward(s), defensema(e)n, goalie(s), and team(s) you've ever seen.

If you wanna list just one for each thats fine, or if you wanna list more thats fine but try and make it 5 or below.

I for one think Bobby Orr is the greatest hockey player ever but I never saw him play so I cannot back it up. So this is one who you've seen.

[Leafs Suck]

I was born in 1981 and got heavily into the NHL in 1989.

Greatest Players:

1) Mario Lemieux

2) Wayne Gretzky

3) Patrick Roy

4) Raymond Bourque

5) Dominik Hasek

Greatest Forwards:

1) Mario Lemieux

2) Wayne Gretzky

3) Jaromir Jagr

4) Peter Forsberg

5) tie between Sakic, Yzerman, Messier and Lindros

Greatest Defensemen:

1) Raymond Bourque

2) Paul Coffey

3) Chris Chelios

4) Nicklas Lidstrom

5) Chris Pronger

Greatest Goalies:

1) Patrick Roy

2) Dominik Hasek

3) Martin Brodeur

4) Ed Belfour

5) Roberto Luongo

Greatest Teams:

1) 96 Wings (62 wins is hard to argue against)

2) 89 Flames

3) 89 Habs

4) 02 Wings

5) 91 Penguins

[Cadian]

I have seen Wayne Gretzky and Guy LaFleur play with the Kings and the Nords... that is the only regular season game I have ever seen. (i have seen the Habs in one pre-season game against Boston a couple of years ago - we won 4-2! )

Wayne is the Great One but seeing Lafleur was incredible. Every time he touched the puck, every fan in the building was chanting..."GUY"..."GUY"... It was a defining hockey moment for me.

[Doktor Kosmos]

Excellent thread LS! Love the idea, because I feel the same way: there are so many legendary players I haven't seen play.

But first of all, I've got a question. Are we talking favourite players or best players. For example, Mats Näslund is probably my all-time favourite Canadian, but he might not be the best... And I haven't seen all these players live in action, some I've only seen on TV... Oh well...

I was born in 1976, and I got into the NHL in the mid-1980's. Back in those days, you never saw NHL games on TV in Sweden; I saw my first NHL game during the 1988/89 season (three during the regular season and the final Stanley Cup finals game when the Habs lost to Calgary). During the 1990/91 season (I think, the year when Brett Hull scored 86 goals) they started showing games on a European sports channel called Eurosport. Eurosport lost the broadcasting rights a couple of years after that. During the 1992/93 season a Swedish channel started broadcasting games, and I saw all the Stanley Cup final games live in the middle of the night. I still have the 5th game on video tape!

However, when I grew up, the World Championships and/or Olympics was the best game in town, so to speak. So I grew up during the era when the Soviets dominated the international scene. I have this love/hate/fear relationship to the Soviet stars (as you will see below). When I was very young (like first grade or something) I had a poster of Wayne Gretzky wearing a red Canada jersey on my wall. I thought his name was very hard to read, and even more impossible to pronounce! :guru:

Well, enough about that. Just wanted to shed a little light on what has influenced me. Let's get to it.

Greatest forward

Not an easy choice. I'm going to have to say Vladimir Krutov (IRL) or Igor Larionov (IRL) or Wayne Gretzky (TV). I'm leaning towards Larionov. He may not have been as productive as Gretz, but damn he was a great hockey player.

Greatest defender(s)

Much easier. #1 Nicklas Lidström (IRL) the smoothest player I've ever seen, I just love the way he plays the game when he is at his best.

#1,5 Viacheslav Fetisov (IRL) they guy every Swedish hockey player loved to hate

#2 Ray Bourque (TV) - my favourite NHL defender

Greatest goalie

I remember the Flyers' Swedish goalie Pelle Lindbergh (TV) (who tragically died in a traffic accident). I remember another infamous Swedish goalie by the name of Peter 'Pekka' Lindmark (TV). Those two were probably the best Sweden had to offer during the 1980's. However, I think am going to have to name Soviet superstar Vladislav Tretiak (TV) my favourite.

Greatest team

Easy. The Soviet national team. (IRL)

As you can see, I'm very Soviet-orientated.

[Edited on 2005/5/28 by Doktor Kosmos]

[ch_nl]

Great thread.

The best player I have seen with my very own eyes in action is Peter Forsberg. He does it all. Maybe the most complete hockeyplayer ever. So I'd say he's the best forward I've seen.

The best defenceman is also a Swede. Mattias Norström. I think it's awesome that a player can play a whole season without making a single misstake. Sure he doesn't do the fancy passes and scores the brillant goals but he always thinks safety first and to me that makes him better than Niclas Lidström.

But if I can choose a player that I have followed on TV it has to be Vladimir Kostantinov. Damn he was hard. I almost cried when I heard about the accident. He was th ultimate warrior and he played for the best team I've ever seen. The Red Wings 96. Wich also contained my absolute favourite: Sergei Fedorov.

[KoZed]

1) Mario Lemieux

Super Mario could plain dominate, overtake a game and turn it around. Unstoppable when he turned it on.

2) Patrick Roy

When he had in his mind that he'd win, there was no beating him. No 86 or 93 Cups without him.

3) Raymond Bourque

Just an unreal defenseman. Playing 40+ mins per games, making almost no mistakes and dominating at both ends.

[Leafs Suck]

Originally posted by Doktor Kosmos

there are so many legendary players I haven't seen play.

I feel the only logically way for someone to honestly say "he's the best ever" is to have lived threw his era. Like I've said, I know how great Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Richard were but I never saw them so it's hard for me to say "oh he's better then this guy".

I often argue with people about why I think Lemieux is better then Gretzky. Most cannot believe it but frankly I never saw Gretzky in Edmonton. I only saw him once he went to LA. I saw Mario win more MVP's and scoring titles then anyone so to me he's the best I ever saw. Some people cannot understand that.

It's the same in other sports too. I never saw Pele and Maradona play so I cannot say "oh they're better then Zidane". Or "Chamerblin is better then Jordan" or "Ruth is better then McGwire". I cannot take someones argunment seriously if they never saw the person play.

[KoZed]

Originally posted by Leafs Suck

Originally posted by Doktor Kosmos

there are so many legendary players I haven't seen play.

I feel the only logically way for someone to honestly say "he's the best ever" is to have lived threw his era. Like I've said, I know how great Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Richard were but I never saw them so it's hard for me to say "oh he's better then this guy".

I often argue with people about why I think Lemieux is better then Gretzky. Most cannot believe it but frankly I never saw Gretzky in Edmonton. I only saw him once he went to LA. I saw Mario win more MVP's and scoring titles then anyone so to me he's the best I ever saw. Some people cannot understand that.

I've seen both Wayne and Mario play. They just didn't had the same style. Nothing about Gretzky was flashy. He wasn't the fastest skater, not the biggest guy, not the hardest shot. But had so much hockey smarts, because of his anticipation, vision and reading of the play he was like 1 or 2 seconds ahead of everyone else on the ice. He was so efficient, you wouldn't notice him and at the end of the game you'd check the boxscore and he had 5 or 6 points.

Mario was almost the opposite. Sometimes he was so dominant, he looked like a man amongst boys, like he was the only guy on the ice. If Gretzky's smarts made him see the play a couple of seconds ahead of everybody, Lemieux's skill made everyone else look slower by a couple of seconds.

There's so many highlights of Mario I have in mind, but one that sticks out the most in my mind was that All-Star game where he scored 4 goals in 4 completely different ways. Or the one in playoffs against Boston when he toyed with Raymond Bourque, passing the puck between his skates. Bourque was the best defenseman of his era and Lemieux just made him look like a pee-wee, that's how great he could be.

[Leafs Suck]

Some good points about Gretzky. He was awesome to watch when he was in LA (espically when Carbo shut'em down in 93). I always found Ron Francis was the same. Francis didn't have the size, speed or presence but always seemed to make the right plays at the right time.