hab29RETIRED
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Posts posted by hab29RETIRED
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3 hours ago, DON said:
6'7" kid who hits a bit & can skate OK, i couldnt see too many GMs passing on him before he goes.
How would this choice be received if Hughes took another d-man in the top ten and didnt pick a forward, trade up/down, or simply trade pick for one.
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Anton Silayev - Stats, Contract, Salary & More (eliteprospects.com)I hate the draft by need approach. Last year was a forward heavy draft and we passed on Michkov and Leonard. This year if a dman is clearly better than the available forwards, I’d still take the dman.
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1 hour ago, DON said:
Messier hit like a truck when with Oilers in his prime, he was 'kinda' strong on his skates.
Like a Mackinnon-Tom Wilson hybrid, is what i remember.
No question. But the point is he wasn’t just a tough player - he was a highly skilled player, who was a top 5 player in his era, and one of the all time greats. Just a horrible comparison when making a case for Florian.
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54 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:
I acknowledge that there are 2 types of goals:
- clean pretty easy goals
- dirty ugly hard goals
Kings of 1: Gretzky, McDavid, Bedard, Stamkos, etc
ex: player skates over blue line and rips a wrister that handcuffs the goalie and scores in top corner. i.e. those players have elite skills. They are primarily perimeter players vs around the crease.
Kings of 2: Messier, Perry, Tkachuks, etc.
A player doesn't need to have elite skill to put up a lot of points as long as they have size, strength, and balls to play in the tough areas. The areas where the player pays a price to score goals. ex: think of all the times Gally scored and then got knocked on his ass afterwards. In those scenarios, if Florian gets 220 lbs he'll have the size and strength to still be on his feet - the dman hitting him might fall over.
@tomh009 joked about OV being the best scorer because he scored into a 1/2 open net from 10' out. Florian will live in those areas and have a ton of similar chances that he'll score way more than other players with a similar level of skill. A player doesn't need to have a great shot to score into half open net from a short distance. What they need is the size, grit and the balls to constantly be in those areas. Florian has those qualities in spades.
The Xhekaj's also have a crazy work ethic - both of their parents are refugees; they've never been given anything and worked hard to get everything they have. There are coaches for shooting, skating, etc; so they'll both continue to get better.
Florian doesnt have the same skill level as the Kings of #2 but Wilson and even Anderson are similar size, strength, toughness and grit, and skill. They get 20+ g/yr.
Ryan Smyth was 6'2" and 192 lbs so he lacked strength but he's another good example of a player scoring a lot of goals using tenacity.
Messier does not have elite skill??? Did you ever watch him play? Ditto with Perry and Tkachuk. All three have toughness, but all are HIGHLY skilled and ELITE players.
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2 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:
There are numerous examples of players that are outside of your time frame of what you say *must* happen by a certain age or there is no chance of it happening. It is not unprecedented for a player to take longer and become a 30 g scorer in the NHL. ex: how old was Ryder when he broke into the NHL and was runner up for rookie of the year? He's a 2 time 30 g scorer and got 35 once, 27 twice and 25 once.
No clue why you insist that its only about how good a player can shoot, skate and pass at their draft year. Its not like those things aren't practicable and people can't improve on those with time.
The Habs should fire their Growth Coach because Cole hasn't grown 4", they need a new Toughness & Grit Coach too because Cole isn't a net hound like Gally.
I'm pretty sure Florian will be better than a 4th liner because he's high in 3 attributes that are vastly important and they happen to be unteachable traits. Hence why those characteristics are highly desirable and more important than other skills that have coaches.
You’re not getting it. It’s not how long it took someone to become a 30 goal scorer in the NHL, it’s how they produced their junior career. Ryder scored 34 (draft year), 44 and 50 goals in juniors.
Martin St Louis went through the college route and scored 15, 23, 29, and 24 goals during his college career he also had over 80 points in college. He wasn’t drafted because of his size, but was a very skilled and productive players.
ita ridiculous comparing Florian to them, or to a top 5 pick like Makar.
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Just now, Commandant said:
Id take Ethan Gauthier and/or Jack Thompson from their prospects if they dont want to move picks.
The question is though do they try and go for it if Sergechev is out for the year? Before the injury thought Tampa was a potential landing spot, since they may roll the dice one more time before Stamkos’s deal is up. At the start of the year they didn’t want to commit to him, so next year could have been the start of a rebuild - I think Hedman is also up the following year.
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2 minutes ago, Commandant said:
Do they want a reunion with David Savard.
I was thinking the same thing, but do they even have any picks to move. They’re in a tough spot. Stamkos contract is going to be up, do they roll the dice and go all in and move more picks, or decide it’s not worth it with Sergechev out and potentially unavailable for the playoffs?
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1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:
Yes, only Guhle is a legit top 4 hence that is why he could possibly be moved. ex: if you were a GM and had Cole, would you trade him for possibly maybe top 4 dman like Harris? Of course not, there is no way anyone would do that. Therefore, for the Habs to trade for a top 6 F they'd need to give up a top 4 dman. The only dman that fits that which other GMs would likely accept would be Guhle.
I agree on all your examples of bad dmen trades and Chelios is the best example of why I wouldn't trade Arber.
If Lindstrom is taken at the draft before the Habs pick they could potentially afford to trade Guhle during the draft for a F. As long as they get a guaranteed 30+ goal scorer with potential for 40+ g/yr/ it would make sense. If they did that they could draft a dman at the draft that who would likely be a top 4 dman.
Chelios was a Norris winner when he was traded. Wifi has done exactly what????
I don’t want to move him either, but comparing the idiotic trade to move Chelios for a pretty much washed up Savard, can never be a comparable for any potential deal for wifi.
I think the D right is be most willing to move right now is Harris as part of a package with the Calgary or Jets pick for a stud young forward.
And while I would not be liking to even consider moving Guhle for Zegras+. If we were offered Zegras for Wifi, I’d be making that deal before Verbeek went in for a much needed lobotomy.
wifi is no Chelios, McDonough, and probably won’t even be a Sergechev. He can probably carve out an Odelin type career. Best case scenario would be a Desjardins light, but I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
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2 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:
I'm not overly concerned about trading the wrong d-man - unless its WiFi that is moved. I think it is more important that whoever they get must be better than what they give up. As long as they end up with a player that vastly improves the team whichever dman is moved doesn't really matter.
hypothetical example: I'm not suggesting they should shop Guhle, but if he is highly sought after by the other GM's and could land the Habs a 30-40 g scorer that gets 70+ pts/yr - they have enough solid d prospects they could absorb losing Guhle. Plus, if they traded Guhle before the draft they could pick 1 of the d-men that in the top 10 of this years draft and 2-3 years from now it is unlikely that we would regret moving Guhle no matter what his ceiling turns out to be.
They have so many prospects they could do similar with 1st rnd picks and trade all of them that are outside of the Top 10 in the next 2 drafts as long as they get a 40 g scorer that they have for 7 years it would be worth it.
So would you trade Guhle for Zegras? I sure the hell wouldn’t - but that I think we are a good match for Anaheim’s needs. It’s just too early to love Guhle unless you are getting a young forward who go would by far will be be the beat forward we’ve had in 30 years. I’m not trading Guhle for a guy who maybe a slight in kore productive Pactioretty.
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8 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:
My guess is that one way or another HuGo are going to have a new top 6 forward on this team to start next season.
Combination of picks and/or one of those excess Dmen we have are likely but Hughes might surprise us.
I think think we e make some big moves leading up to, or at this year’s draft. What happens at the draft lottery will impact anything we do, but I can’t see us starting next training camp with all our young D. One or more of them will be moved. As BChabnut has said though - we need to get it right. I think all of them will be NHL dmen for a long time - we just need to make sure we hold on to the best ones.
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18 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:
I don't get why some people here are thrilled with the return either. I was hoping it would be more than just one 1st rnd pick - which is likely all they will get out of it. The maximum scenario is they get picks: 1-32 and 3-32. I would have preferred the trade to include a mid tier prospect that has attributes that their other prospects lack.
While that is true it doesn't change that it seems the Jets underpaid to get him. i.e. Sean was #3 of top available players at the trade deadline so they should have been able to get more than one 1st for him.
The good thing is the Habs can still potentially do more moves because they didn't retain any salary.
I have to wonder what part Sean had in the decision? Are the Jets a team Sean chose so Hughes took less to get him where he wanted to go?
Would I have wanted more - of course. But I’m happy with a got a first now, rather than wait a month and risk an injury. We also didn’t need to retain any money - which would have brought a bigger return. Now we can use the last retention to maximize value for Savard or Allen. I think Savard probably brings the highest return, so I’d use it on him.
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1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:
Sending him to Winnipeg and testing the Jets waters vs say Boston or NYR or Dallas does help with a possible but highly unlikely re-sign in the off-season. But, stranger things have happened.
I think he’ll probably sign with Ottawa.
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1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:
Wow, I don't like the trade at all. After Lindholm was moved for a crazy amount I can't help but think that Hughes could have gotten more for MoneyHands. i.e. all the Habs get is a 1st rnd pick, because the condition on the 3rd rnd pick is the Jets win the Cup, which is highly unlikely. One 1st rnd pick isn't really that much considering that Sean plays C and F and is useable in a bunch of scenarios.
I was hoping for more because of the Lindholm trade as well, but don’t forget that Flames took back $5m in salary for a guy who wasn’t being played by Vancouver - regardless of whether or not the Flames actually wanted Kuzmenko. The Canucks had been trying to move him for quite a while.
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3 hours ago, DON said:
I dont know if either is what Habs need, but from stats kinda assume Kakko not prized by Rangers and the other still is.
Kakko 5g 6pts 28games in 5th yr
Lafreniere 12g 29pts 49games in 4th yr
Alexis Lafreniere L Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL] 265 59 61 120 Kaapo Kakko R TPS Turku [SM-liiga] 267 49 55 104 Given that Kakko is in his 5th post draft year, and what his production is, I don’t think I’d want to move Monohan straight up for him. We should be able to do better than that. He’s getting close to bust territory.
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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
Well, “overplaying” a guy is different from his taking long shifts, no? The former means you’re getting too many shifts per se. The latter means you aren’t coming off in a prompt way, making your shifts too long. One is about bench management, the other about player discipline. (Of course, if the coach isn’t insisting that players keep their shifts to a reasonable length, then he tacitly encourages long shifts to the detriment of the team).
The other thing about long shifts, of course, is that when your team sucks, you tend to get trapped in your own zone for extended periods, thus bloating your shift length.
Suzuki was double-shifted for at least one game and it doesn’t seem to have helped him at all. Whether the problem was fatigue, or being saddled with Anderson, or both, he looked gassed heading into the break. But within reason, I can’t really blame MSL for going with his best player. Mattheson seems fine to me, and again, as by far our best defencemen, he is going to get the call quite a bit.🤷♂️
It raises interesting questions, though. How good is MSL at bench management? And is he doing a good job of instilling structure and discipline on the team?
Part of his issue is that we don’t really have another all-round centre, other than Monohan, and Monohan has also been used as a winger. So I get giving Suzuki more ice time.
dame thing with Matheson. I have more issues when Savard gets a lot of time, because he is already playing higher up in the lineup, than he is capable of playing. May as well give more time to the kids that are doing better in any given game.
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2 hours ago, GHT120 said:
Agreed ... even if the Habs have to somewhat sweeten the deal to make it work.
I wonder if there would be any way we could get Perrault and a Kakko/Lafreniere for Monohan, Savard, and Harris.
If there isn’t interest in Savard. I wonder if we could still bump up the return is if we took a bad contract like Goodrow back? Or if we packaged Anderson with Monohan, if they’d pay the premium to have Anderson instead of Goodrow. I know Anderson makes more money, but I keep hearing that he is the kind of guy you want for the playoffs.
Rangers are built to go for it and their beat writers like Brooks have been saying they need more toughness for that playoffs to avoid more post-season failures. I’m not as high on Kakko as Lafreniere, so who knows, maybe with can snag a young offensive player and an offensive prospect like Perrault if the Rangers are all in for this year??
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2 hours ago, Commandant said:
I dont think the idea of xhekaj-mailloux being a pair should change the development plan for either. Pairings like NHL lines change far too frequently to worry about that
I agree with that, but right now it does look like both of them are having a positive influence on each other, and both were playing really well. Just having both play with a guy that is helping their play improve is good for their development.
the only hesitancy I’d have about sending wifi back to Laval is that it looked like guys on other teams were trying to make a name for themselves at getting a shot a wifi. I credit him for not engaging and showing that restraint, but that game when the guy went for our goalie, could have been done to try get wifi to fight. Speculation on my part, but it did look like guys we’re constantly trying to get him to fight.
if he could show as much restraint on not taking dumb penalties on day to day plays as he did with not taking in all comers in the AHL, would help keep him in the lineup, but showing that kind of restraint and judgement is much harder to do than just not accepting an invitation to fight.
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3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:
Yeah I was complaining about Garry Galley!I think it’s pretty simple - Slafkovsky gets moved to the first line and that line improves significantly, Slafkovsky gets moved and the Suzuki line goes back to crap. Although part of this is useless Anderson, whom I continue to complain about.
Slafkovsky gets put with Monahan and that lines stats go through the roof - Slafkovsky is the difference
Galley spews uneducated nonsense which is much like Sportsnet’s analysis on a lot of stuff. Just one week ago those experts were calling for Slafkovsky to be on the 4th line because he sucks. 🤡
I think Galley hates Montreal, because we beat him in the Finals. I totally agree with an earlier post by someone that that Galley and Healy are useless. I’m not sure how the USA networks always seem to get marquee players, while HNIC usually gets former grunts and spare parts.
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3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:
Fair concerns for sure.
I will say that Anderson is no prize this year either. The advanced stats for EVERY line he plays on tanks to terrible levels - even Suzuki and Caufield turn to garbage when Anderson is on their line.
Anderson is cheaper but still under contract for a while and PLD has more to offer - if he can turn it around…
PLD would be under pressure in Montreal by the fans to play hard. He would get no peace anywhere he goes if he did play for the Habs and was lazy.
Again, you have legit concerns but I look at this proposal as a struggling player for a struggling player.
Oh I totally agree that PLD has way more upside, but has 7 years left vs three for Anderson. Anderson is also easier to trade after 2 yrs, because his actual salary is a lot lower.
By the time we are ready to compete (hopefully), Anderson is off the books, whereas if PLD is a bust we are really screwed.
in any event, I can’t see the kings giving up on PLD this early.
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4 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:
Likely a summer deal but I propose we trade Anderson for Dubois straight up.
Third line centre or perhaps he would fit on Suzuki’s wing.
PLD seems like a - I play when I feel like it type of player. Seems to have worn out his welcome on his third team. I don’t think I’d want to risk a 7 year deal on him. If he plays like that in Montreal he will get ripped in the media and booed by the fans. Personally, I think we dodged a bullet, and I don’t think I’d want to risk having another Drouin type basket case.
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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
Geez - how much of a driver of play has Slaf become?
It’s interesting to contemplate whether all the love Monahan is getting is *partly* inflated by having Slaf on his line. If you listen to HNIC, you’d assume it’s the other way around, that Monahan is helping Slaf. In fact, I think Galley said exactly that tonight.
As for Anderson with CC/Suze, yeah. It should work but it doesn’t - as is true of a lot of things having to do with Anderson, it seems. Probably the issue is that both Suzuki and Anderson need to carry the puck and drive the rush in order to be effective. (Of course, Suzuki is vastly better at it than Anderson).
Problem with Anderson is he really can’t play with anyone. He doesn’t know what to do when he doesn’t have the puck. He can’t pass, has zero hockey sense.But hey he is big. He can skate pretty good in a straight line, for a big man. He can shoot - not necessarily score. But did I mention he is big. He is zero chemistry with almost anyone he plays with, but hey is a big guy, so he will keep getting prime chances in the lineup.
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15 hours ago, Commandant said:
Ernst and Young supervises business accounts worth way more than the NHL makes in a year. The reason they do so much business is an impeccable reputation in the financial industry. Rigging a draft lottery that they put their name on damages that reputation. No one wants to do financial business with a company that does fraud for bribes.
Quite simply the NHL couldnt afford what it would cost to get a bribe to fix this.
The league also.releases full video of the lottery after its over.
Quite simply, these tinfoil hat conspiracies of rigging the lottery are complete and utter B.S.
Have worked with E&Y closely over the last 15 years - impeccable reputation is a bit of a stretch. Agree that there is no way they are going to allow the lottery to be rigged. But, my own assessment of them would be more as incompetent and inconsistent, than impeccable. Not as bad as KPMG, but not great.
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4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:
Given the NHL’s approach to discipline, he could get 5, he could get 1, he could get a fine, he could get awarded a new pony and be told he’s a Good Guy. Who the f**k knows
With any other team I’d agree. But it’s Montreal. And it’s Gallagher. I expect they’ll throw the book depending on how his past suspension history is.
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5 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:
Gallagher is going to get suspended. Brutal elbow right to the chops.
We’ll, that’s one way to get him out of the lineup🙄
wifi must be thinking I get sent down with penalties 10% as bad as this, and some old washed up old guy could have cost us the game and he’ll be back in after serving his suspension.
having said that - I totally supported wifi being sent down. Just see Gallagher’s action as really selfish and dumb from a leader who where’s an “A”. He’s not adding anything offensively, the least that he can do is not take such a blatant idiotic penalty when we are finally up after a really pathetic losing streak.on the other hand, maybe it was an elbow to help the Celebrini lottery odds? The Sens are getting close, must not pick up any more points…
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1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:
Well, for starters your list is missing a 6th attribute and its likely the most important of all of them.
Toughness + Grit, and those combined with Size = Fearless = Success
Ex: Gally has toughness and grit but he lacks size to be fully effective the way he plays.
ex2: There happens to be 2 brothers that get over over 80 pts each. Neither are the most skilled, best skaters, or smartest. The Tkachuk's have toughness + grit along with size. Their other attributes are tertiary and below.
ex3 : Cory Perry. Will the Peanut Gallery argue he's the best skater? He's not the most skilled either.
ex4: Messier. He wasnt he best skater or have best skills.
I'd rank them in this order:
1) toughness + grit
2) Work ethic/determination/heart
3) Size
4) Smarts
5) Skill
6) Skating
Note: the last 3 are somewhat interchangeable but its the 1st 3 that are more important.
ex: Mathews. He is high in the last 3 but absent of the top 3. How many Cups has he won? He's won how many playoffs rounds?
Fluid you actually watch Messier play??? He was a far better skater than Gretzky, and was also a very skilled player. You don’t get over 1000 points and have multiple 100+ point seasons without skill.
The Leafs signing of Reaves was probably done using your evaluation criteria.-
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2024 NHL Entry Draft
in Habs & Hockey Talk
Posted
I’d rather do that as well, but with the top 5 picks, you should be going after a can’t miss top line forward, or top pairing dman.