2004 Habs Draft Thread

[puck7x]

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<b>HABS 2004 DRAFT PICKS</b> | <a href="http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=619" target="blank_"><b>HABS DRAFT REVIEW</b></a>

<a href="http://www.habsworld.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1456">HABS DRAFT CHIPCHURA 1/18 </a>

<a href="http://www.habsworld.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1458">Habs Draft Alexei Yemelin 3/84</a>

<a href="http://www.habsworld.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1459">Habs Draft J.T Wyman 4/100 </a>

<a href="http://www.habsworld.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1460">Habs Draft Mikhail Grabovski 5/150</a>

<a href="http://www.habsworld.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1461">Habs Draft Loic Lacasse 6/181 </a>

<a href="http://www.habsworld.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1462">Habs Draft Jon Gleed 7/212 </a>

<a href="http://www.habsworld.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1464">Habs Draft Greg Stewart 8/246 </a>

<a href="http://www.habsworld.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1466">Habs Draft Mark Streit 9/262 </a>

<a href="http://www.habsworld.net/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1468">Habs Draft Alex Dulac-Lemelin 9/278 </a>

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Solid work as usual by Dan...

http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=596

I'll just use my standard line, BPA! Best player available. That should be our pick.

Edit: I figured I'd just edit the title and turn this into the official draft thread...

[Edited on 2004-6-30 by puck7x]

[Edited on 2004-12-29 by puck7x]

[Edited on 2005-1-29 by sakiqc]

[puck7x]

And a look at some possible habs draft choices in the 1st round... Article by Mr La Rose...

http://www.habsworld.net/show_big_news.php?id=599

[Habs77]

I disagree with BPA... we've been doing that forever and we've ended up with a boatload of smallish forwards.

Identify a few key guys you really like that fit a particular need going forward... and if he's still available when it's getting closer to you turn, trade up and nab him.

If that doesn't work out on draft day, then plan B is BPA.

Savard has moved up a few times in the past, to me it's a sign of an organization with a plan... who knows what they're doing.

I like it.

[puck7x]

Originally posted by Habs77

I disagree with BPA... we've been doing that forever and we've ended up with a boatload of smallish forwards.

Identify a few key guys you really like that fit a particular need going forward... and if he's still available when it's getting closer to you turn, trade up and nab him.

If that doesn't work out on draft day, then plan B is BPA.

Savard has moved up a few times in the past, to me it's a sign of an organization with a plan... who knows what they're doing.

I like it.

I disagree. When it comes to drafting I think we should always take the best player available, once we start identifying needs thats when we start picking big untalented busts. Draft the BPA, then TRADE for the type of player you need, a perfect example of this is the Balej for Kovalev trade, we drafted a smallish/skilled prospect in Balej, we had no use for him on the team so we traded him for something we did need, a big talented winger (Kovalev).

I agree that we need size. But I'd only draft a size player if that player is the best one available to us. Why risk being burned?

[Habs77]

Originally posted by puck7x

I disagree. When it comes to drafting I think we should always take the best player available, once we start identifying needs thats when we start picking big untalented busts. Draft the BPA, then TRADE for the type of player you need, a perfect example of this is the Balej for Kovalev trade, we drafted a smallish/skilled prospect in Balej, we had no use for him on the team so we traded him for something we did need, a big talented winger (Kovalev).

I agree that we need size. But I'd only draft a size player if that player is the best one available to us. Why risk being burned?

We don't risk getting burned any more with one philosophy than the other... you're either right about the kid or you're not.

I still say identify a few guys you REALLY like, and if the opportunity presents itself... move up to grab him if you have to.

You always have BPA as the backup plan.

Thankfully Savard shares my views, now if only he can draft some size this time around.

And I can't stand people saying "we don't know what our needs will be ion the future"... well I guarantee you we won't be complaining that we have too many big players in 5 years, so gimme a break.

And to hell with trading for size later... all we got for Balej (the #1 AHL scorer) was a rent-a-player.

Woopie.

You want quality big you players, you better draft 'em because the other teams tend not to give the good ones away when they have them.

Especially being in the East, it's about time we woke the hell up.

We traded up for Higgins as he was the kid Savard had targeted, then last year Kastitsyn was #1 on their list and he fell into their lap so they didn't need to make a move.

Hopefully we get our man this year as well, whoever he is.

[puck7x]

Originally posted by Habs77

Originally posted by puck7x

I disagree. When it comes to drafting I think we should always take the best player available, once we start identifying needs thats when we start picking big untalented busts. Draft the BPA, then TRADE for the type of player you need, a perfect example of this is the Balej for Kovalev trade, we drafted a smallish/skilled prospect in Balej, we had no use for him on the team so we traded him for something we did need, a big talented winger (Kovalev).

I agree that we need size. But I'd only draft a size player if that player is the best one available to us. Why risk being burned?

We don't risk getting burned any more with one philosophy than the other... you're either right about the kid or you're not.

Yes we do. Your saying that we have a better chance of getting burned in a trade involving a prospect then we do of getting burned by drafting for a specific need? I disagree, I think its harder to draft for needs then it is to trade for them.

I still say identify a few guys you REALLY like, and if the opportunity presents itself... move up to grab him if you have to.

Okay, I can agree with this... If we can identify a sized player who we could use, and is ontop of our list, then yes trade up for him. But I still wouldnt take a needs-player ahead of the best one available, its all about risk... Look at our draft record 1994-1997

Thankfully Savard shares my views, now if only he can draft some size this time around.

And I can't stand people saying "we don't know what our needs will be ion the future"... well I guarantee you we won't be complaining that we have too many big players in 5 years, so gimme a break.

He shares your views on trading up to get the player he targeted, but we dont know if he shares your views on drafting for "needs"

And to hell with trading for size later... all we got for Balej (the #1 AHL scorer) was a rent-a-player.

Woopie.

That player we got helped us win a round in the playoffs which got the team alot of playoff revenue. Thats a big woopie to me. Plus we still might re-sign him, in fact we have a great chance of doing so.

You want quality big you players, you better draft 'em because the other teams tend not to give the good ones away when they have them.

Especially being in the East, it's about time we woke the hell up.

The Tampa Bay Lightning just won the Stanley cup, the same Lightning who arent much bigger then the Habs, they have some big players (Lecavalier) but on average they are the same size as the habs. Will the Lightning winning the cup change the way the NHL and the Eastern conference plays hockey? Who knows, but it might...

Hopefully we get our man this year as well, whoever he is.

I agree.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by puck7x

Yes we do. Your saying that we have a better chance of getting burned in a trade involving a prospect then we do of getting burned by drafting for a specific need? I disagree, I think its harder to draft for needs then it is to trade for them.

I'm saying you rarely get good value for a prospect who you trade because he doesn't fit your needs... case in point Balej for a rent-a-player.

Balej is good, but small so doesn't fit for us... and now we might end up with nothing for him.

That's the reality when you draft anybody and then are stuck trying to trade him for your needs later... you don't get good value.

Ok, we've been small for the last decade... who the hell have we been able to trade for to remedy the situation?

The good big bodies aren't traded often, only the crap like Kilger get moved around.

Or get out the checkbook and pay 9M for Guerin, that's another option.

On the other hand we wanted a big D, drafted Komi... and now he's here.

Simple.

Don't draft a dozen midgets and then even when they look promising the best you'll get for them is a rent-a-player.

Okay, I can agree with this... If we can identify a sized player who we could use, and is ontop of our list, then yes trade up for him. But I still wouldnt take a needs-player ahead of the best one available, its all about risk... Look at our draft record 1994-1997

That was about our scouting staff being incompetent and not having a clue... our present staff is actually good, and them being aggressive on draft day shows me their confidence and I really like it.

I think our whole disagreement here is based on the fact we're not talking about the same thing.

When I say I disagree with BPA... I mean I disagree with just creating a list of the players we like in order and just picking who is left when our turn to pick comes along.

That's too passive a stance.

I want the scouting staff to really focus in on the handful of players they think are really special... and then if the opportunity arises go for it.

If all else fails, then fall back on BPA.

I'm talking about how aggressive I like my team to be on draft day, not about choosing a guy who is not half as good just because that's the position we need to fill.

He shares your views on trading up to get the player he targeted, but we dont know if he shares your views on drafting for "needs"

Yeah as for being aggressive Savard has shown it, the way he went harder than any other team after Kovalchuk, moving up for Higgins & other players but I forget who.

As for drafting for needs, I'm not saying just draft a guy if he's big.

I'm saying if they have both a big & small guy who they really like... and the big one will probably go a few spots before them but the smaller one should still be available... move the hell up if you can.

If the other team is too greedy, then settle for the smaller one.

Just don't always be content with selecting the smaller one because he happened to fall down to your pick.

The organization is small & lack grit from top to bottom... it won't get better by just wishing for it to happen.

You need to draft big.

That player we got helped us win a round in the playoffs which got the team alot of playoff revenue. Thats a big woopie to me. Plus we still might re-sign him, in fact we have a great chance of doing so.

He was still as a rent-a-player with no guarantee we'd have ANYTHING to show for Balej past this season.

That is a clear example that trading prospects doesn't get you very far.

Which is why you should draft players you're more likely to keep, and you're more likely to keep them if they fill your needs.

Especially being in the East, it's about time we woke the hell up.

The Tampa Bay Lightning just won the Stanley cup, the same Lightning who arent much bigger then the Habs, they have some big players (Lecavalier) but on average they are the same size as the habs. Will the Lightning winning the cup change the way the NHL and the Eastern conference plays hockey? Who knows, but it might...

I won't hold my breath on the East suddenly going away from it's size.

Spot us a Lecavalier and then maybe we can start comparing the two lineups.

Oh that's right, Tampa DRAFTED him.

The fact is our top two 2 lines are a bunch of midgets, with our best prospects (Higgins, Perezhogin, Kastitsyn) looking to further that trend.

We need size, and size that plays with an edge... not like Lambert, Urquhart, etc who don't really use it.

I don't know the prospects this year, I just hope we go big.... then pick out of few small gems in the later rounds.

[puck7x]

Originally posted by Habs77

Originally posted by puck7x

Yes we do. Your saying that we have a better chance of getting burned in a trade involving a prospect then we do of getting burned by drafting for a specific need? I disagree, I think its harder to draft for needs then it is to trade for them.

I'm saying you rarely get good value for a prospect who you trade because he doesn't fit your needs... case in point Balej for a rent-a-player.

Balej is good, but small so doesn't fit for us... and now we might end up with nothing for him.

Kovalev isnt good value? I'd disagree. He may be a rent a player, but like I said, he helped the habs win a playoff round.

That's the reality when you draft anybody and then are stuck trying to trade him for your needs later... you don't get good value.

That may be true, but when you draft for the BPA you'll end up with a better crop of prospects (which can be traded) then you would have if you draft for needs.

Ok, we've been small for the last decade... who the hell have we been able to trade for to remedy the situation?

We havent been small the last decade, only the past 4 years or so. We had guys like Corson, Stevenson, Thornton... And while they are just average players, they still had good size. But I agree with you (even though you didnt say it here) that we need size on the top lines.

Don't draft a dozen midgets and then even when they look promising the best you'll get for them is a rent-a-player.

So we should draft a dozen useless thugs? 12 Andre Deveaux's?

I think our whole disagreement here is based on the fact we're not talking about the same thing.

Your right, your saying that we should target a big-guy who we really want, and then go after him, while I am saying that with our picks (without moving up) we should draft the BPA. Misunderstanding...

He was still as a rent-a-player with no guarantee we'd have ANYTHING to show for Balej past this season.

That is a clear example that trading prospects doesn't get you very far.

Remember that we are only talking about Balej, a guy who was our #5-6 prospect.. A Kastitsyn could fetch more. Balej for Kovalev was a price I was willing to pay.

Spot us a Lecavalier and then maybe we can start comparing the two lineups.

Oh that's right, Tampa DRAFTED him.

Its amazing to think of it though, the habs are only one Lecavalier away from dropping the "small" label from our team. We just need that big top line player.

{quote]The fact is our top two 2 lines are a bunch of midgets, with our best prospects (Higgins, Perezhogin, Kastitsyn) looking to further that trend.

They arent small really, I'd say average size... Higgins is 6'0 200 or so.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by puck7x

Kovalev isnt good value? I'd disagree. He may be a rent a player, but like I said, he helped the habs win a playoff round.

However he may have helped us, the fact is the only reason that trade went through was because he was a UFA at year... hence we rented him and the price was Balej.

I don't call that good value at all for a kid that was leading the AHL and has a future in the NHL.

We havent been small the last decade, only the past 4 years or so. We had guys like Corson, Stevenson, Thornton... And while they are just average players, they still had good size. But I agree with you (even though you didnt say it here) that we need size on the top lines.

Wow, I must have blacked out during those "Bell Center bullies" days... hehe

I've seen us as a physically lacking club for a VERY long time... not just the last few.

And the problem is exactly that, the lack of size on the TOP lines.

That's why we need to draft big in the 1st rounds, there are no potential top line big men left later in draft... they tend to go fast.

If there's an opportunity to trade up to land one Savard likes, it must be done.

Don't draft a dozen midgets and then even when they look promising the best you'll get for them is a rent-a-player.  

So we should draft a dozen useless thugs? 12 Andre Deveaux's?

My point is not to let our turn come and pick someone not as good but bigger... then yes we'd end up with 12 Deveaux's.

My point is trade up and get a bigger guy who is also talented... even if you end up with one less pick. I rather have one really good big man than 2 potentially good small guys.

We have built up some depth prospect-wise, time to go for quality over quantity.

Your right, your saying that we should target a big-guy who we really want, and then go after him, while I am saying that with our picks (without moving up) we should draft the BPA. Misunderstanding...

Yup.. BPA is obviously the right call when your turn comes up, I'm just saying that if we see that the BPA at our pick isn't the best fit for us... move up or down so the BPA at our pick is the right guy for us.

I favor a pro-active draft, not passively taking the top guy on your list every time your turn comes around.

To me just saying BPA implies the passive approach, and that's why I always get into a "thing" with people who say that.

Remember that we are only talking about Balej, a guy who was our #5-6 prospect.. A Kastitsyn could fetch more. Balej for Kovalev was a price I was willing to pay.

If we don't re-sign Kovy... I will disagree.

But the thing is we would have been forced to move him sooner or later because by drafting small players almost exclusively we have an overload of them.

Its amazing to think of it though, the habs are only one Lecavalier away from dropping the "small" label from our team. We just need that big top line player.

They don't grow on trees... that's why you need to draft them, or sign one as a UFA for 9M.

They arent small really, I'd say average size... Higgins is 6'0 200 or so.

I SO knew you were going to say that... too funny.

Fact is whether you want to call them small or average, what this team needs desperately is BIG... nothing less.

[puck7x]

Originally posted by Habs77

Originally posted by puck7x

Kovalev isnt good value? I'd disagree. He may be a rent a player, but like I said, he helped the habs win a playoff round.

However he may have helped us, the fact is the only reason that trade went through was because he was a UFA at year... hence we rented him and the price was Balej.

I don't call that good value at all for a kid that was leading the AHL and has a future in the NHL.

I guess then we will just have to disagree on that one then. Balej has no guarantee of being a regular NHL player in his future, he is still a risk. If Kovalev helped the Habs win the cup this year then what would you think of the trade? hypothetically

We havent been small the last decade, only the past 4 years or so. We had guys like Corson, Stevenson, Thornton... And while they are just average players, they still had good size. But I agree with you (even though you didnt say it here) that we need size on the top lines.

Wow, I must have blacked out during those "Bell Center bullies" days... hehe

I've seen us as a physically lacking club for a VERY long time... not just the last few.

I never said we had a huge-sized team in the past. I said that we havent always been THIS small, a few years ago our team was comparably sized with other teams in the NHL.

Your right, your saying that we should target a big-guy who we really want, and then go after him, while I am saying that with our picks (without moving up) we should draft the BPA. Misunderstanding...

To me just saying BPA implies the passive approach, and that's why I always get into a "thing" with people who say that.

Well then stop misunderstanding people ... The "BPA Fans" are probably willing to make the same <i>moves</i> you suggest to get that "BIG" player. I know I am.

I SO knew you were going to say that... too funny.

Thats funny cause I had a feeling you were going to call Higgins a small player, ... He's not small, thats all I'm saying. He's built well.

[puck7x]

Dan's latest article...

http://www.habsworld.net/show_big_news.php?id=602

BTW about Shirokov... On the NHL's CSB site they list him as "opt in: required" ... Whatever that means. Though, I think all players are listed as that.

[dlbalr]

As far as I know, every player must declare for the NHL draft, similar to the NBA, NFL, MLB, etc... If a player fails to declare, they are not eligible for the draft in that season, but can enter the following year. An example of this is David Booth, now ranked 27th by CSB (NA skaters). Also, a player can opt out after declaring, and return for the next season. An example of this from what I've gathered is Sami Lepisto, ranked 25th by CSB (Euro skaters).

Hope that helps.

[montreal]

Originally posted by dlbalr

As far as I know, every player must declare for the NHL draft, similar to the NBA, NFL, MLB, etc... If a player fails to declare, they are not eligible for the draft in that season, but can enter the following year. An example of this is David Booth, now ranked 27th by CSB (NA skaters). Also, a player can opt out after declaring, and return for the next season. An example of this from what I've gathered is Sami Lepisto, ranked 25th by CSB (Euro skaters).

Hope that helps.

Actually it's different for certain players. In the NCAA, you have to opt in, unless you are 19, then you are automaticlly in.

[puck7x]

HW Launched its draft centre today, right now it just consists of links to all draft articles (internally on site, and external ones) ... You can see the little draft 2004 graphic on the front page (right column) ... Here's the link to the page...

http://www.habsworld.net/show_prospect.php?id=605

Also, 2 other things.

The "Be the GM game" is on... Feel free to send in your thoughts/ideas : http://www.habsworld.net/show_big_news.php?id=593

And.... The 2nd Annual (for HW) Draft Pool, and the 4th annual (before HW) edition of my draft pool has started... Join today!

http://www.habsworld.net/show_big_news.php?id=603

<u>Previous Draft Pool Winners</u>

(ESPN) 2001: habsrule01 (aka "montreal")

(ESPN) 2002: habsrule01 (pretty sure it was him again... I misplaced the results )

( HW ) 2003: Puck/Dlbalr

( HW ) 2004: IT COULD BE YOU!

Notes: "montreal" got our Perezhogin pick right in 2001, and Lambert (pretty sure it was Lambert) right in 2002. I got the Kastitsyn pick right last year (I've got to stop bragging about that... lol)

]

[Edited on 2004-6-15 by puck7x]

[montreal]

Originally posted by puck7x

HW Launched its draft centre today, right now it just consists of links to all draft articles (internally on site, and external ones) ... You can see the little draft 2004 graphic on the front page (right column) ... Here's the link to the page...

http://www.habsworld.net/show_prospect.php?id=605

Also, 2 other things.

The "Be the GM game" is on... Feel free to send in your thoughts/ideas : http://www.habsworld.net/show_big_news.php?id=593

And.... The 2nd Annual (for HW) Draft Pool, and the 4th annual (before HW) edition of my draft pool has started... Join today!

http://www.habsworld.net/show_big_news.php?id=603

<u>Previous Draft Pool Winners</u>

(ESPN) 2001: habsrule01 (aka "montreal")

(ESPN) 2002: habsrule01 (pretty sure it was him again... I misplaced the results )

( HW ) 2003: Puck/Dlbalr

( HW ) 2004: IT COULD BE YOU!

Notes: "montreal" got our Perezhogin pick right in 2001, and Lambert (pretty sure it was Lambert) right in 2002. I got the Kastitsyn pick right last year (I've got to stop bragging about that... lol)

]

[Edited on 2004-6-15 by puck7x]

I had the Higgins and Lambert pick in '02 (pats self on back :-^ ) I got lucky with Lambert, Higgins I had been pushing for all year, didn't see us trading up one spot, but at least we got him.

Last year I had Parise I think and Richards (damn flyers )

[puck7x]

5 days left till the NHL draft...... its almost here!

TSN's latest. Profiles of top-50 players according to them...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/draft/feature.asp?fid=9467

[Leafs Suck]

Kyle Chipchura would be a great pick.

TSN also picked Chipchura.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/draft/feature.asp?fid=7065

[puck7x]

HW's Mock Entry Draft....

http://www.habsworld.net/show_big_news.php?id=609

Korpikoski seems like a popular pick for the habs in mock drafts...

Latest draft preview article from canadiens.com

http://www.canadiens.com/eng/news/redirect...newsItemID=3828

[puck7x]

A side-by-side comparison of a few mock drafts... Good job sakiqc...

http://www.habsworld.net/show_prospect.php?id=610

[dlbalr]

Just for the fun of it, I move we try to predict all of the Hab picks, from 18 all the way to 278. Why did I think of this? Because I was bored earlier, and decided to do something. Also, it'd be cool if someone actually correctly predicted a 6th or 7th rounder. So here are my picks:

1-18: Lauri Korpikoski (Turku Jr-Fin) (12E)

2-84: Brian Ihnacak (Brown-ECAC) (44N)

3-95: David Laliberte (PEI-QMJHL) (45N)

4-100: Raymond Sawada (Nanaimo-BCHL) (32N)

5-150: Scott Lehman (Toronto-OHL) (87N)

6-181: Chad Klassen (Spokane-WHL) (140N)

7-212: Bedrick Kohler (Vitkovice-Cze) (103E)

8-246: Marek Ulehla (Brantislava Jr-Slo) (90E)

9-262: Dan Turple (Oshawa-OHL) (22NG)

10-278: Martin Rygl (Liberec Jr-Cze) (98E)

The stuff in the last set of brackets are CSB rankings...

I usually get one right each year, last year it was Urquhart, although I had him in the 3rd round. The year before, I had Deveaux, but in the wrong round as well. Which one will be right this year, or will my streak end?

[Habs77]

Great job with the mock drafts and the comparison between the different ones out there... that kind of content people really appreciate.

I have to say I personally believe Montoya will go much higher than 11th... as someone will trade up to a pick between 4-8 to take him IMO.

Or that's all I've been hearing anyway.

There is so much talk of many picks possibly being traded it's really hard to predict how things will play out beyond 1-2.

Hell it's hard enough to predict even if every team keeps the picks they have.

What I'll also be looking forward to is if teams will use draft day to move certain vets they are looking to unload... especially with the all the uncertainty surrounding the new CBA.

Whether it's Guerin, O'Neill, Bonk, etc... I'm wondering if Gainey wants any part of that action.

[puck7x]

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/HOCK...AN40DB5FE4.html

RDS talks about Alex Picard, and the possibility of the habs drafting him. His style is compared to M.Ryder and R.Smyth... 3rd ranked North American player.

I wouldnt mind drafting Picard, he's got size, he's got skills, he's an LW. He doesnt seem to have any character/attitude issues, (hard worker) , the only question mark about his game is his skating... Its choppy, BUT... He does get to where he needs to be, kind of like Ward, not pretty but effective.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by puck7x

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/HOCK...AN40DB5FE4.html

RDS talks about Alex Picard, and the possibility of the habs drafting him. His style is compared to M.Ryder and R.Smyth... 3rd ranked North American player.

I wouldnt mind drafting Picard, he's got size, he's got skills, he's an LW. He doesnt seem to have any character/attitude issues, (hard worker) , the only question mark about his game is his skating... Its choppy, BUT... He does get to where he needs to be, kind of like Ward, not pretty but effective.

Wasn't that the knock on Ryder too?... I remember a lot of comments on his skating and it doesn't look half bad to me.

If he's the best big guy we have a shot at, Picard is fine with me... I haven't seen any of the prospects myself so I don't have a clue.

I just trust Savard/Timmins & company to make the right choice.

[puck7x]

A little humour....

From: http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20040624...12921-3222r.htm

<b>Alex Ovechkin Said ---</b><br> Asked yesterday if he was getting nervous, Ovechkin replied, "A little bit," while taking a moment from his chores at a suburban rink, where he took part in a clinic for youngsters. He appeared to be confident in strange surroundings and waved off a translator who offered to help.

Perhaps he should have accepted the offer. The 6-foot-2 wing was asked what his early impressions of America were.

"I think he's good guy, really good skater," Ovechkin responded.

[puck7x]

Draft is underway.... #1-2 went as they were supposed to go... Ovechkin, then Malkin. Hawks took Barker #3 .... no surprises yet.