Suspension Idea

[Fanpuck33_]

I've always been an advocate of suspending players by their actions and not by the result of the dirty play. After thinking about it for a while, I'm not so sure.

First of all, I think the first condition should, indeed, be based solely on the action, regardless of whether or not somebody was seriously injured.

Secondly, if an injury is the result of a dirty hit, I think the player making the dirty play should be suspended for however long the player he injures is out.

I think the idea of being out 2-3 months instead of a week or two would makes guys start thinking twice before they head-hunt and go for knee-to-knee hits.

What do you think?

[Edited on 2004-12-29 by sakiqc]

[Habsfan21]

Originally posted by Fanpuck33

I've always been an advocate of suspending players by their actions and not by the result of the dirty play.  After thinking about it for a while, I'm not so sure.

First of all, I think the first condition should, indeed, be based solely on the action, regardless of whether or not somebody was seriously injured.

Secondly, if an injury is the result of a dirty hit, I think the player making the dirty play should be suspended for however long the player he injures is out.

I think the idea of being out 2-3 months instead of a week or two would makes guys start thinking twice before they head-hunt and go for knee-to-knee hits.

What do you think?

I think it's a decent idea, and a relativlely sound one, but there are some flaws. Let's say Mats Sundin hits some AHL call up from the Bruins, and Mr.AHL is out for awhile. What would prevent the Bruins from taking their sweet time in sending Mr. AHL back, by extending the injury a month or two, especially if TO is coming in for a couple of games? Plus, this would also require the definition of "dirty hit" to be VERY firmly put down, because some hard, legal checks can be considered dirty.

I agree that firmer suspensions should be handed out for knee/knee hits and intentional headhunts. I think, though, that a strict injury/suspension link could create some trouble.

I also think, thanks to the effects from the Bertuzzi/Moore hit, we'll see a bit less of the cheap stuff.

[Fanpuck33_]

Obviously there would be doctors involved who are impartial, who will step in and say when MR. AHL truly is healthy.

I also don't think you'd have to come up with a stricter definition of dirty hit. If the hit was outside the confines of the rules, it is dirty.

I also disagree that the Bertuzzi incident will lead to fewer cheap hits. Just look at the playoffs, where I've never seen so many raised elbows. The league needs to make a stand (if there ever is a league again) and call the rule book. It's the only way they'll ever get the sticks and elbows down, not to mention stop the clutching and grabbing.

[simonus]

what if mike komisarek checks eric lindros and his career is over? That same check would shake up a regular player but lindros is thin-skulled from 43 previous concussions.

Often times the result of an action alters our perception of that action. For instance - to a large degree we bring in Jim Dowd to pull faceoff pucks away from the goal on important defensive faceoffs. Everybody seemed to think this was a good idea. Dowd isnt able to pull the puck on a late-game faceoff against the lightning = why wasnt perreault in? It was a smart idea before the act but not after? I dont think that's right.

edited for spelling

[Edited on 12/27/2004 by simonus]

[Fanpuck33_]

Originally posted by simonus

what if mike komisarek checks eric lindros and his career is over?  That same check would shake up a regular player but lindros is thin-skulled from 43 previous concussions.

If it is a clean hit, then there is no problem. But if it is dirty, I would have no problem with ending someone's career. It would only need to happen once before players found out that they would cost themselves millions just for one raised elbow. If the hit is dirty, the intent is to hurt the other player. First of all, Komi shouldn't have been hunting Lindros' head. Secondly, knowing Lindros' history of concussions, he should have known better than to try to knock him out and possibly end his career.

[Zowpeb]

So you would expect players to play with caution around a guy like Lindros? That makes no sense...

You can't take away from a players ability to play with intensity which is what this will bring about.

The NHL just needs to treat everyone on a more equal basis...none of this "we'll set an example with this guy" BS.

I hate seeing stuff like Perezhogin getting a year in the AHL for the EXACT same action a player did to him 1 second earlier. In fact, it is easily argued that Perezhogin's wasn't as bad since his opponent wasn't in as prone a position and Zhog's was retaliatory and not "pre-meditated". The result of that incident left Zhog with a year suspension and the other guy with 6 games. I agree 100% that stuff like this is unfair in the extreme and the leagues need to find a better way to resolve these things. However, set penalties are just asking for trouble. They just need to review each incident by itself, with better guidelines on what to look for and what leads to how many games...however, they should not be forced into using these "guidelines" as rule.

[puck7x]

I still think suspensions should be based on the severity of the act, and not the severity of the injury. When you use both it just complicates things...

As for a guy like Bertuzzi, I think he's served his time and deserves to be reinstated to the NHL. He made a really stupid decision, and as a result Moore might never play again. But... Bertuzzi is a first time offender (I just contradicted myself after saying suspension=act didnt I?) and the shot on Moore imo was not as bad as others I've seen. (Like Johnson on Beukboom)

Its guys like Thornton/Guerin who need to be given stiffer suspensions, maybe then the NHL could finally get all the cheap high sticking and elbowing out of the game. One of these two idiots is going to end someone's career one day.

[Edited on 2004-12-27 by puck7x]

[Habsfan21]

Originally posted by Zowpeb

So you would expect players to play with caution around a guy like Lindros?  That makes no sense...

I agree, if a guy is out on the ice, he has to play by the rules, and not recive special treament because he's been injured previously.

[Doktor Kosmos]

As for a guy like Bertuzzi, I think he's served his time and deserves to be reinstated to the NHL. He made a really stupid decision, and as a result Moore might never play again. But... Bertuzzi is a first time offender (I just contradicted myself after saying suspension=act didnt I?) and the shot on Moore imo was not as bad as others I've seen. (Like Johnson on Beukboom)  

Its guys like Thornton/Guerin who need to be given stiffer suspensions, maybe then the NHL could finally get all the cheap high sticking and elbowing out of the game. One of these two idiots is going to end someone's career one day.  

Maybe one day they will, but Bertuzzi already have. (OK so we don't know that for sure just yet. But still...)

I don't know what's the best way of dealing with the suspensions, but the review board needs to take things more seriously. Suspensions must be tougher than they are today.

[puck7x]

Originally posted by Doktor Kosmos

Maybe one day they will, but Bertuzzi already have. (OK so we don't know that for sure just yet. But still...)

I don't know what's the best way of dealing with the suspensions, but the review board needs to take things more seriously. Suspensions must be tougher than they are today.

Yeah, but Bertuzzi ended Moore's career after a one-time brain fart. Guys like Thornton/Guerin skate around each game looking to hack and slash other players heads off....

I dunno, maybe I'm too biased about this. I really hate Thornton and Guerin, lol.

[Doktor Kosmos]

Either way, suspensions need to be much more harsh. Players need to be held accountable for their actions.

[Fanpuck33_]

Originally posted by Zowpeb

So you would expect players to play with caution around a guy like Lindros?  That makes no sense...

You can't take away from a players ability to play with intensity which is what this will bring about.

I said nothing about giving Lindros special treatment. A dirty hit is a dirty hit, and it would be an even dumber move if the guy you hit dirty is injury prone. Trying to limit dirty hits has nothing to do with playing with intensity. You can play with 100% intensity and not use dirty hits.

I think my idea would all but stop dirty hits, as they would not want to lose the time and money if they happen to injure the other guy.

And like I said, I am not supporting punishing only the result of the action. In my first post I said there should be a stiff suspension based on the act, and then if the other player is hurt, the suspension would not end until the other player was healthy enough to play again.

[Edited on 12-29-04 by Fanpuck33]

[simonus]

but we can agree that dirtiness is not binary in nature. There are different levels of dirtiness and the dirtier should be punished more severely. In your system it would be impossible to punish dirtier moves more than less dirty ones.

Let us look at the converse - let us say a player is very thick-skulled, or plays hurt because of playoffs or pride or whatever. the dirty player can screw him up without much worry because he'll play hurt...

[Fanpuck33_]

Originally posted by simonus

In your system it would be impossible to punish dirtier moves more than less dirty ones.  

Let us look at the converse - let us say a player is very thick-skulled, or plays hurt because of playoffs or pride or whatever.  the dirty player can screw him up without much worry because he'll play hurt...

I disagree. As I said, the player is first suspended based on the severity of the attack, so a more vicious hit results in a longer initial suspension. Only if the other player is injured does my system go into effect. And let's say that someone uses a dirty hit hit on Iginla and he toughs it out, his team isn't hurt by the dirty hit. But if, say, Forsberg gets hit and is hurt, it hurts his team a lot more than the dirty hit on Iginla.

I am not going to stand here and say my system is necessarily fair, but I think it would all but eliminate the worst of the dirty hits, and cut down significantly on others. I think it would be most effective against knee-on-knee hits.