shortcat1 Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 I've already got this topic in the prospects section but, having it here may garner a wider response. I know that, in the end, we're only armchair GMs, coaches, players, etc. but it is nice to fantasize, hypothesize and constructively criticize so here you are... I watched Bob Gainey on RDS yesterday. He said that there are two or three kids ready to make the jump to the Canadiens. I guess these would be Perezhogin, Higgins and probably Hainsey. That makes for quite a log-jam for places on the roster. I'm not even going to look at the 'who's on the way out' topic, just the 'who's on the way in'. I've never been a great fan of signing free agents (especially in the last system) as a way to fill a team. I suppose I look at the financial side of it. A LOT of money for what might be a good investment. Usually these free agents come in at the deadline just for a rush at the cup. For many teams, the Canadiens included, there's a sense of "What's the point?" You're just forking out a lot of cash for a possibility of a shot at the cup. Almost invariably this tactic doesn't work. You have to already have a solid shot at the cup and the 'hired gun' should be just an extra to help with the various intangibles of the playoffs. Also, I struggle with the idea that when there are prospects, why not bring them up and let them grow with the team. The management saw possibilities in them so develop those possibilities. Of course, the weakness here is that, if the prospects are not of the quality one needs (even for the long term), then the talent has to be gotten from somewhere else - that leaves only trades or free agents. It's a quandary. The reason for the timeliness of this topic is that the Canadiens have the 4th best prospect group in the league. Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Higgins, Danis, Chypchura, Plekanec, Hainsey(?), Hossa(?), and the guy they're going to get this year (Johnson, I hope), etc. Also, there's positive talk about Mark Streit who's been described as being as good as (if not better than) Brian Rafalski. If the talent is there, why not grow it for the long term instead of buying shorter term (and financially riskier) fixes? For example, do we need Alex Kovalev - not really. Would he be good to have - sure, but at what cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Originally posted by shortcat1For example, do we need Alex Kovalev - not really. Would he be good to have - sure, but at what cost? Is it your money? We don't care, as long as there is spending room, we should spend Prospects IMO should we well surrounded and play with a winning team to optimise their development you don't ice a line of Higgins Plekanec Perezhogin, they're gonna get KILLED. you put Higgs with Bubba Bonk and Bulis you put Perez with Kovalev and Koivu etc... surround them with vets who can teach them how to improve, who can show them the way and serve as role model. you don't throw them in the traffic without any help. Anyways, it's POINTLESS cause Gainey said that he had a UFA list that he would go after and he said that the market was overcrowded with quality guys like ... Forsberg :ghg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 Who said anything about icing a line of Higgins, Perezhogin and Plekanec? Of course they'd be best surrounded and taught by those with experience. Your suggested line combinations are fine. As to 'Is it your money?' I suppose I'm trying to look at it from a GM's point of view. He has to be responsible for many things among which is the most efficient way of icing a good team for the owner (to whom he's responsible, in the end). The New York Rangers/New York Yankees way of doing things is not a sure way of reaching the prize. So, what's the point of spend, spend, spend all you got just 'cause you got it to spend? I agree - .:ghg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Originally posted by shortcat1 The New York Rangers/New York Yankees way of doing things is not a sure way of reaching the prize. So, what's the point of spend, spend, spend all you got just 'cause you got it to spend? Did you already forget about the 39M cap? Habs budget is said to be in the surrounding of 45M so they are happy to spend only 39M :king: I know that you didn't propose a Higgins Plek Perez line, but if we don't go get some UFA help that's what it could look like... I almost prefer such a line to a line of Plek Ribs Ryder... Ribs and Ryder are NOT vets, they only have a slim NHL experience... If we want a somewhat solid team I think we should provide them an experienced Winger who will play the physical game for them... not a rookie who will get beaten up at every occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Originally posted by alexstream Originally posted by shortcat1 The New York Rangers/New York Yankees way of doing things is not a sure way of reaching the prize. So, what's the point of spend, spend, spend all you got just 'cause you got it to spend? Did you already forget about the 39M cap? Habs budget is said to be in the surrounding of 45M so they are happy to spend only 39M :king: I know that you didn't propose a Higgins Plek Perez line, but if we don't go get some UFA help that's what it could look like... I almost prefer such a line to a line of Plek Ribs Ryder... Ribs and Ryder are NOT vets, they only have a slim NHL experience... If we want a somewhat solid team I think we should provide them an experienced Winger who will play the physical game for them... not a rookie who will get beaten up at every occasion. Congrats alexstream, that was the 10 000th post in the Habs Talk forum Good it was you.. you're on fire lately.. 35+ posts in the last day, and lot of quality one. Keep it up!:/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaliHab Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hey fellas, great topic, thought I'd pipe in with my lineup, bit of a dream I 'spose but not too far from potentially realistic: Zednik - Koivu - Perezoghin/UFA Ryder - Ribeiro - Higgins/Perezoghin Bulis - Bonk - Sundstrom Ivanis/Higgins - Begin - Ward Souray - Zhitnik Markov - Komesarik Hainsey - Rivet Theodore Danis/Huet First of all I really think Montreal will land a legit. UFA winger... Higgins and Perezoghin can fill the other spots... I guess this means bye bye Dags Sundstrom was a guy I didn't think we'd see back, but, I'm glad he is, I think this third line will click nicely at both ends of the rink, if it doesn't I see Bulis leaving town and Higgins taking his spot. Will Bulis finally score like he should? I think Plekanic is outta Montreal one way or the other, it'd be great to get value for him cause he definitely warrants it in my book. I just feel, moving forward he doesn't have a role with this improving club... If Breezer is indeed on the way out, and financially I'd say it'll happen, (even though I'd prefer to have him stay), I'd like to see Zhitnik arrive as a UFA. If we are looking to improve other blueline spotsI think Rathje's a stud and prehaps has a smaller price tag - he'd be a nice upgrade on Rivet, hehe. With Huet out till Nov. I don't think the Habs will pick up another backup, Danis will fill that role fine, heck, I think the experience will benifit him in the long run ( a la when Theo. first got time cause Hacket went out). Also I think the Habs will land Bobby Ryan. Yup another winger. Unless he goes 2nd to the Ducks, Brian Burke won't draft a defenceman, he trades for those - and hopefully CAR will pass on Johnson and trade down for Staal. I mean, I'd love it if Poulliot or Johnson were still available but its pretty unlikely... Car. or Min. will take him although AJ Thelen is a similar player... ah hell, forget I commented at all on the draft. I do think Brule is too risky and small and is apparently an individualist... Anyway, what the hell do I know, man I ramble... Fire back! HaliHab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanChannel Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 I'd like to see Gainey bring up a couple of prospects from Hamilton, but not too many. Perezhogin and Higgins would be a great addition to the line-up; but too many young guys could mean not enough experience for later on in the season, and hopefully the playoffs. Kovalev would help the team alot in the playoffs, like he did two years ago. So for forwards we'd have: Zednik-Koivu-Kovalev Ryder-Riberio-Sundstrum Bulis-Bonk-Perezhogin Higgins-Begin-Ward Like many people have stated here before, defense is where we need to improve. Breezer has been on the team forever, and is the only link back to the '93 team, but he is too expensive. Why pay $3 million for Breezer when you could pay $3-$4 million for a better defenseman like Schnider, who would bring back the connection to '93, Ozlinch (sp?), Aucoin, or Foote? Bringing one of those defenseman in would greatly improve the blue line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 you want sundstrom on a scoring line? If you are going to abandon offense on the 2nd line you should have a guy who can bring some physical presence, not exactly sundstrom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsrocket Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Brisebois, Rivet will probably be bought out. I have also heard rumors and rumblings that with this frenzied free agent market Koivu might go only because of his health issues. What good is a captain who misses games??? My other thought is that of Dagenais. Look for him to be bought out of his contract as well. If there are kids coming up then the Habs need to make room for them to grow. The Habs need to rebuild for the new generation coming up by adding from the old. They need to add a big winger to help out BONK and Bulis, In fact if Gainey were smart he would buy out Bulis also just because of his size. Look for the Habs to get bigger and stronger both on offence and on defence. As stated the Habs biggest problem is the D. They need to sign some big D men who can move the puck around. Leave Bullion, Sourray, Markov, Komisarek alone to do their thing. If Hainsey is ready bring him up and sign two more D men. Other than that the goalie situation is good Danis, Theo, Huet. Look for Danis to shine after his 20 th game. He will need time to be broken in. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33_ Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Originally posted by HabsrocketBrisebois, Rivet will probably be bought out. BG said yesterday that he wasn't planning on buying out any contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck7x Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Originally posted by HabsrocketBrisebois, Rivet will probably be bought out. The habs will not buyout anyone. Brisebois is in an option year, we can just decline his option and he's a UFA. I do agree with you that the habs biggest concern is D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Other highlights... instead of having to dig into all of the articles just get that here: -Habs will not spend up to the 39M cap, they want to have some room next UFA season (is he talking about Lecavalier there???) - Pierre Boivin -Habs will be busy in the next few days, list of key players they want to sign (mystery) there are lots of players available on the UFA market, Forsberg being one of them (!!! did I hear that from the mouth of our GM!) - Bob Gainey -Kovalev is interested in coming back - Alex Kovalev -Claude Julien wants Kovalev back - Claude Julien -Rumours about Koivu and Theo stems from a Yvon Pednault's article on RDS.ca who just states his opinion that they are expensive and that basically, reading between the lines, you end up undertanding that he means that if the habs can get better players for cheaper, they will do it (bravo yvon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 It is difficult for me to foresee how Gainey will behave with the UFA mostly because the very concept of what constitute a competitive team in the NEW LNH environment is in a flux. Does a team with enought talents or prospective talents still need a checking line ? With the new rules being more talent friendly, will the young offensive talents be utilised in the third line over more conservative veterans now that their offensive imput will make-up for their defensive mistakes ? Gainey as been talking ALOT about talents recently and I am not sure if its view relating to the line-up of the team as changed. Maybe all the lines will be filled according to the heriarchy of offensive talents and all players will be asked to be or become two way players. Loading up a third line with prospects might not be as bad as it used to be,...specially if those players already possess a solid two way approach like Plecanek, Higgins, Perezhogin and Chipchura do. Gainey might need only a top winger from the UFA if Bonk could be the other winger on the first line. Bonk, Koivu, Kovalev Zednick, Ribeiro, Ryder Bulis, Plecanek, Perezhogin Higgins, Begin, Ward As time pass, players unlikely to ever move on the upper lines like Bulis or Sundstrom will be best replace by veteran possessing more grit than they do,...like a ''could be cheap to get Martin Lapointe'' etc. Defense wise, let me indulge in pure fantasy and suggest that buying out Brisebois and Rivet, the combined dollard return could allowed the CH to get either UFA Gonchar or Darian Hatcher which is a plausible buy-out from Detroit. Its crasy time and am affraid it got to my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Originally posted by sakiqcCongrats alexstream, that was the 10 000th post in the Habs Talk forum Good it was you.. you're on fire lately.. 35+ posts in the last day, and lot of quality one. Keep it up!:/) Thanks I'm proud to win the HW Berezin title (Berez scored the habs 10000th goal) But even prouder to be the newest HW collaborator thanks Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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