Perreault

[Zowpeb]

I would like all the people who want Perreault to stick around to explain to me why he should be here over other players...

My reasons for trading Perreault are as follows:

1) He is easily replaced by Ribeiro or some other young player.

2) He has decent trade value and that could be used to fill a more pressing need. Primarily on defense!!

3) He is soft.

4) He is poor defensively.

5) He is not a good passer and our second line has too many shoot first players(I won't call them snipers because it would be an affront to snipers).

6) He is not a 3rd or 4th line player so there is no point in moving him down the depth chart...in this instance, he'd be more valuable being traded.

7) We've seen in the past that our coaches do not want him on the ice in crucial situations which severly limits any advantages he may give us in the face off circle...since he's not wanted on the ice due to his defensive liabilities.

Basically, I know that many want him around because he is a consistent 20 goal scorer and solid face off man. But that's all he is, whereas, we have young players who have a higher potential upside then this. These young players will not acheive their potential playing behind Perreault. Nor will they acheive their potential playing with him!!!

[sakiqc]

The best thing that could happen is Yanic Perreault becoming our 3rd line center taking Joe Juneau's place.

When he was a FA, Yanic signed out of Toronto because he didn't accept to be a 3rd line center.

But after 2 years in Montreal he didn't show he can post big numbers as a 1st or 2nd center. He even had the possibility to have a larger role because our 1st center Saku missed a year. But he didn't manage to average more than 50 pts. That's clearly not enough.

He has become really streaky and not reliable... except on the faceoff circle. He had a great streak last year, but finished with only 46 pts.

Anyway, I think Yanic Perreault can still fit in Claude Julien's system and that he has a chance to fit pretty well. Here's why: Julien's strategy is to play the top-line against the opposite top line. That means we no longer need an useless Juneau-3rd-line to play stricky defensively. I think with Yanic on 3rd line we can have 3 lines that can put numbers on the board. Yanic has good assets (faceoff, skill) and when he is on a great streak Julien can give him more icetime.. when he's cold he don't hurt too much on the 3rd line. I would see a 3rd line composed of Hossa-Perreault-Sundstrom.

[ch_nl]

1) He is easily replaced by Ribeiro or some other young player.

So you think Ribs has proven himself to be a solid NHL-player? What has Ribs done so far? Perreault has been our most reliable scorer...

2) He has decent trade value and that could be used to fill a more pressing need. Primarily on defense!!

Why would Perreaults value be better than Ribs or Juneau? And by the way, all trades this season must have in mind that their may not be a next season...

3) He is soft.

True. But there's many players in Montreal that could be called soft...

4) He is poor defensively.

True. Again. But he's one of our most reliable scorers...

5) He is not a good passer and our second line has too many shoot first players(I won't call them snipers because it would be an affront to snipers).

He had more assists than Zednik. And do we consider Zednik as a poor passer? And yes, Perreault shoots first. So pair him with someone who doesn't. Like Sundström...

6) He is not a 3rd or 4th line player so there is no point in moving him down the depth chart...in this instance, he'd be more valuable being traded.

Perreault should be on the second line. Ribs should not.

7) We've seen in the past that our coaches do not want him on the ice in crucial situations which severly limits any advantages he may give us in the face off circle...since he's not wanted on the ice due to his defensive liabilities.

The key to succes is practice. I'm sure Perreault hasn't stop learning.

Basically, I know that many want him around because he is a consistent 20 goal scorer and solid face off man. But that's all he is, whereas, we have young players who have a higher potential upside then this. These young players will not acheive their potential playing behind Perreault. Nor will they acheive their potential playing with him!!!

Why this faith in our prospects? First we have to have a sloid team. A team that plays in the playoffs.

[CerebusClones]

So far, I've always been in favor of keeping Perreault. However, giving the current situation, I have changed my mind. I believe it would be better for everyone, including Perreault, for him to be traded to another team.

Perreault definitely does not fit in our future plans, with some good kids coming up at center. Instead of wasting Perreault's skills on the forth line or on the bench, we might as well let him go and give him a chance to compete somewhere else.

I also believe the Habs need to give Ribeiro a true chance this year, and that means starting second line center for a couple of months.

This team has been mediocre for several years now, and it is time for a change. We are building a new core of players, one that is younger is difinitely more talented. Perreault was a good journeyman that helped us a lot in the past, but now it it time to move on.

For now, I think Juneau could still help us for another year, until we slowly bring up his replacement, perhaps Chad Kilger. Kilger will most likely begin the season on the forth line, but Im hoping that before the end he will be centering the third line... just my opinion.... and his replacement could be Lapierre in a few years.

[Zowpeb]

ch_nl, here is my response:

1. I don't think Ribeiro has proven himself to be a proven NHL scorer or even more reliable then Perreault. I DO think that he has proven he deserves a legitimate shot at it. Montreal often lets it's young players languish on lower lines without giving them a true opportunity before we trade them...and then watch them grow into great players. You are continuing this attitude by wanting to keep a 50 point scorer. Tell me, how is Perreault any better then Oleg Petrov? Not much difference other then one is a center and the other a winger.

2. I realise that trades must keep next season in mind. So what is your point? I believe that Perreault is UFA after this year anyways so a team would love to have him. He doesn't make a ridiculous amount of money either, so even if I'm wrong and he does have another year beyond this, it's not a big deal. If you don't think Perreault has any more value then Juneau or Ribeiro then why keep him? I think he does have more value because he is a proven commodity. However, his role should be diminished in favour of developing our young talent.

3. Yes, we have a lot of soft players. Does that mean we should simply ignore the fact that Perreault is? At least guys like Koivu play hard...Perreault is only capable of that in very short stretches...like 1 shift long stretches...per season.

4. Perreault IS NOT one of our most reliable scorers. He is streaky and inconsistent. He does put up an okay number but as a 2nd line center who gets PP time he doesn't exactly excite me. Sorry but 45-55 points is nothing special. Sorry to break your heart on this.

5. Zednik is more of a goal scorer. It's a role he fills as the winger of a good set-up man in Koivu. Perreault's wingers will likely consist of 2 of Zednik, Audette, Hossa, Bulis, Ward. All of these guys are more goal scorers then passers. I think I'd rather have Ribeiro setting them up. So, Ribeiro fits a better role on the second line. I also think that with Perreault's minutes, consistently, and the proper line-mates, Ribeiro can score as many points as Perreault. So much for Perreault's vaunted reliability if this is true...which IMO it probably is.

You want to pair Perreault with Sundstrom, on the SECOND LINE? ARE YOU INSANE? Sundstrom is at best a 3rd line player right now. In fact, after his atrocious play last year he needs to have a good training camp to even get that. ugh.

6. Obviously you think Perreault should be on the 2nd line and I disagree. This team has one of the best farm systems in the NHL. Certainly in the top 5. So, should we never allow our young talent to prove itself in favour of mediocre 2nd line talent like Perreault?

7. If you think Perreault is suddenly going to become a good defensive player through practice you really should re-think that. He's been in the league too long and plays his style. He's not going to suddenly become a reliable defensive player out of the blue. At Perreault's age, the player is what he is. Why re-train Perreault to be something he's not when you could be developing a young player for the role?

8. Why this faith in our prospects? Perhaps you don't pay much attention to our farm system but it's VERY good. We have the potential to be a very good NHL team in a couple years if we develop our talent properly. It sounds to me like you would rather have aging veterans who don't score all that much clogging up the spots in the NHL. Spots that a few of these kids need to take their development further. I am by no means advocating an entire team of rookies but we should have at least 3-4 1st - 2nd year players on the team. Throw in Ribeiro, Markov, Bulis and Hossa you see that these guys deserve the minutes to show if they can handle the added responsibility. What happens in 2 years when Ribs is still languishing on 3rd and 4th line minutes, stunting his development, then Perreault is gone and we have to try and let him play 2nd line? At the same time, we'll be pairing him with young rookies. I'd say it would be a disaster. But if we let Ribs develop into a 2nd line center(or at least let him attempt it) then we would have a dependable vet to play with the rookies at that point.

I swear the only team worse at developing its good young prospects into NHLers is the Leafs.

To often in Montreal we want to have a playoff contender NOW. In the process we screw up our future. I want to build a team that contends for YEARS. The only way to do that is to continue to develop a couple of good young players every year and consistently replenish the farm system with good talent.

[ch_nl]

The Bulldogs may be the best team, but do we really have any top-top-prospects?

Hossa maybe, and that's the only youngster that I think deserves to play on a regular basis. Today...

Ribs. Could be compared to Perreault. They're not THAT different. But Perreault is NHLs top face-off man. And just look how far Anaheim got with the best face-off stats...

I think that a place on the second line is something that a player have to deserve. And I don't think Ribeiro has yet.

And yeah, I want to see Perreault play with Sundström. In my eyes Sundström is one of the leauges most "under-rated" players.

Ask Wayne Gretzky who is favourite player was in New York...

Sundström is capable of deliver some really good passes and at the same time he is taking a big responibillity in the defensive play.

And I don't think that Perreault could be a new Peca, but I do think that even older players develop their play.

Zednik - Koivu - Audette

Sundström - Perreault - Bulis

Hossa - Juneau - Dackell

Ribeiro - Kilger - Dwyer

[sakiqc]

And yeah, I want to see Perreault play with Sundström. In my eyes Sundström is one of the leauges most "under-rated" players.  

Ask Wayne Gretzky who is favourite player was in New York...  

Sundström is capable of deliver some really good passes and at the same time he is taking a big responibillity in the defensive play.  

ch_nl, I have a high respect for Sundström. I was really impressed last year to see his play around the corners and his puck handling abilities.

My question is "Why do you talk about Sundström when we try to think if Yanic has still a place on the 2nd line?"

But, talking about them, I think it would be really interesting to match both... but on a 3rd line please! They are both good players, but if they are our 2nd line.. we are in BIG problems! This is the NHL.. not the WHA!! As I said earlier, i would see an offensive 3rd line composed of Hossa-Yanic-Niklas

[ch_nl]

is never stronger than it's weakest link...

When building a team the most important thing is chemestry.

Look at Czerkawski. Was a hero just a couple of years ago in New York. And look what happened to him in Montreal.

The coach and his staff have to bring out the best in each and every player.

And I think that Sundström - Perreault - Bulis could be a really good line. Then it doesn't matter what their names are as long as they are playing well and win games for us.

Take a look at Anaheim. Again.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by ch_nl

Zednik - Koivu - Audette

Sundström - Perreault - Bulis

Hossa - Juneau - Dackell

Ribeiro - Kilger - Dwyer

Ward is a lock to make the team, and probably on the top 3 lines. He's a Gainey favorite, he played very well last year in Hamilton & during his call up in Montreal, and he has the SIZE we desperately need on the top 3 lines.

To not even have him in your lineup to me is ludicrous, I'll assume you simply "forgot" him.

I'm also against Ribeiro on the 4th line, THIS is the year to play him a lot and decide once and for all whether he's our man or we trade him.

And I don't like the Sundstrom with Perreault theory. Sundstrom did very well with Gretzky, the ultimate playmaker. Perreault is a sniper, unlike most centers he's the one who needs his wingers to set HIM up... not the other way around.... that's why he clicked so well with Gilmour (a natural playmaking center) last year.

If you want to give Sundstrom an offensive role, then match him up with either Koivu or Ribeiro... the playmakers on this team.

I'd do this if we opt to go with 3 "balanced" lines, as the less star-studded teams are doing.

I'd go with:

Bulis-Koivu-Audette

Sundstrom-Ribeiro-Zednik

Hossa-Perreault-Ward

Kilger-Juneau-Dwyer/Dackell

#1: Bulis brings the speed and good D, Koivu the playmaking, Audette the sniper.

#2: Sundstrom the good D plus can finish when set up, Ribeiro the playmaking, Zednik the sniper.

#3: Hossa is very good defensively, played mostly center before we converted him to LW... he still has the typical center's playmaker in him which Perreault needs since he is purely a sniper, and Ward brings the physical aspect plus his solid all-around game.

#4: Who cares.

[Edited on 13-8-03 by Habs77]

[TheAussiePosse]

Those lines make a lot more sense.

But we hopefully will make at least one major trade before the start of the regular season.

Perreault, Juneau, Dackell (yes, he counts as major to us), Ribeiro (to a lesser extent)...

Even Brisebois, Dykhuis and Souray could fetch something good in return.

Would it make sense to think that BG is trying to trade a forward and a defensemen on our team (i.e Juneau and Brisebois, or Perreault and Souray) for a single forward or defensemen on another team?

Addition by addition and subtraction?

[ch_nl]

I would like to have Sundström with Perreault because Yannic isn't the most defensive player. Sundström could fill that role.

And I think both Bulis and Sundström could serve Perreault well. The both secure back and the are capable of delivering som good passes.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by ch_nl

I would like to have Sundström with Perreault because Yannic isn't the most defensive player. Sundström could fill that role.

And I think both Bulis and Sundström could serve Perreault well. The both secure back and the are capable of delivering som good passes.

Perreault needs a true playmaker, and Sundstrom needs the same if you want him to have a bigger offensive role.

It's a bad mix IMO.

Hossa is just as good defensively and is the playmaker Perreault needs... not to mention Hossa brings a physical dimension Perreault will really appreciate.

Sundstrom needs Koivu or Ribeiro to become an offensive factor.

Btw, all our centers need defensive help from their wingers... they're all weak defensively except Juneau.

[Habsaku]

We do have top young talent and I can name them:

Andrei Markov

Mike Komisarek

Ron Hainsey

Alexander Perezhogin

Andrei Kastsitsyn

Christopher Higgins

Mathieu Garon

Jason Ward

Marcel Hossa

Mike Ribeiro

Thats not counting our current mid 20s players:

Jose Theodore, Saku Koivu, Richard Zednik, Jan Bulis, Craig Rivet

And at least one of these that might get a chance:

Francois Beauchemin, Jozef Balej, Thomas Plekanec, Konstantin Korneev and Micheal Ryder

We have a pretty solid farm and a pretty good core.

Komisarek, Markov, Hainsey, Kastsitsyn and Perezhogin are definetly high end talent. Those five have potential stars written on them.

And on the Perreault subject: I am tired of seeing people defend the softest player on our team. He has no leadership qualities, no center abilities, no defensive qualities, he's a loafer. He waits for people to get the puck for him then waits to score a goal. Thats the worst kind of player there is and I can assure you Anaheim did not win with those kinda players. They mightve been good on face offs but they also had desire and talent to go with it. Whats worst about Perreault is like a slow less talented Audette on center, our weakest position. How is that gonna improve the team? How many 32 year olds with limited brain capacities become defensively responsible. Perreault is not the kind of player to change his style or to improve it, it ¨worked¨ all his life and he isnt gonna do anything to change it. We cant allow ourselves to slow a youngsters development so that Perreault can play one more year for us. Hes a UFA next year and he most likely wont be signed. So lets trade him and finish this never ending debate.

[ch_nl]

Perreault is not our main problem!

Perreault is not over-paid.

Perreault give us some decent numbers. He scores and he puts up a few assists. Thats fact.

And when I started to play hockey as a small kid and the coach told us what hockey was all about he told us that the goal is to score goals. More goals than the opponent.

Perreault scores. Okay, he had -11 but 46 points on 73 games. And not playing all games on the 2 top lines.

That's better Audette and similar to Zednik.

He also have a PCTG on 16,5

Koivu has 14,2

Get rid of the players who're not producing, then trade Perreault. And remember that players use to have good season when they are playing the last years of their contracts...

[Habsaku]

You cant compare Perreault to wingers, he is a center and we only have 4 positions. The fact is he cant be number 1 because theres Koivu, he cant be number 3 because he has no defensive abilities, he cant be number 4 because he wont produce and he wouldnt be in his place and he cant take a younsters spot at number 2 because we are rebuilding. Hes the odd man out and he should be traded. And yes he is overpaid, for a one dimensionnal bad player, 3M is too much.

Zednik brinbs speed and intensity, which Perreault astronomically lacks.