Next cuts & Centers situation

[GINGY4371]

does anybody know when the next cuts will be made?:guru:

thanks

[Edited on 24-9-03 by Habs77]

[Edited on 2003-9-26 by sakiqc]

[Habs77]

Given the number of injuries, and the fact we have quite a few preseason games left... I think it might be a while.

They play on the 23rd, 26th, 27th, 29th, 30th of September... then the 3rd & 4th of October.

Season start on the 9th of October vs. the Sens on the road.

[Bonavistaman11]

Hopefully the cuts will be made soon, so we can get idea of whos gonna be starting the season.

:ghg:

[Bonavistaman11]

Anyone have a clue of who's likely to be cut next?

:ghg:

[Habs77]

Originally posted by Bonavistaman11

Anyone have a clue of who's likely to be cut next?

Guys like Ferland, I don't see Dagenais making the team.

Perezhogin will follow, then finally Higgins IMO.

Plekanec should also stick around longer now that we're really short on centers.

[sakiqc]

Originally posted by Habs77

Originally posted by Bonavistaman11

Anyone have a clue of who's likely to be cut next?

Guys like Ferland, I don't see Dagenais making the team.

Perezhogin will follow, then finally Higgins IMO.

Plekanec should also stick around longer now that we're really short on centers.

I dunno, but i think Higgins has more chance to stay longer with the big club than Plekanec. We heard a lot anout Higgins so far, while Plekanec is almost unnoticed.

I hope that Plekanec will have the opportunity to play on Hamilton's Top line and that he'll perform at an high level there. I don't see Plekanec develops on the 4th line... but maybe Higgins could, even if he's not very much taller, he can be more physical .

[Habs77]

Originally posted by sakiqc

I dunno, but i think Higgins has more chance to stay longer with the big club than Plekanec. We heard a lot anout Higgins so far, while Plekanec is almost unnoticed.  

I hope that Plekanec will have the opportunity to play on Hamilton's Top line and that he'll perform at an high level there. I don't see Plekanec develops on the 4th line... but maybe Higgins could, even if he's not very much taller, he can be more physical.

I never said Plekanec would last longer than Higgins.... just said that Plek should benefit from from the center shortage and stick around longer than he normally would. (Higgins is of course more on the Habs radar than Plek, duh)

I'm really pissed about the team not saying the job is Ribeiro's until Koivu gets back... they actually went out of their way to say it could be someone other than him.

Koivu will miss a couple of games max, it's the perfect opportunity to give Ribeiro his shot... and still they're dragging their heels even if he's been the best Habs players on the ice in every practice & game he's been a part of.

It makes me sick the way they're handling the situation.

[montreal]

Originally posted by Habs77

Originally posted by sakiqc

I dunno, but i think Higgins has more chance to stay longer with the big club than Plekanec. We heard a lot anout Higgins so far, while Plekanec is almost unnoticed.  

I hope that Plekanec will have the opportunity to play on Hamilton's Top line and that he'll perform at an high level there. I don't see Plekanec develops on the 4th line... but maybe Higgins could, even if he's not very much taller, he can be more physical.

I never said Plekanec would last longer than Higgins.... just said that Plek should benefit from from the center shortage and stick around longer than he normally would. (Higgins is of course more on the Habs radar than Plek, duh)

I'm really pissed about the team not saying the job is Ribeiro's until Koivu gets back... they actually went out of their way to say it could be someone other than him.

Koivu will miss a couple of games max, it's the perfect opportunity to give Ribeiro his shot... and still they're dragging their heels even if he's been the best Habs players on the ice in every practice & game he's been a part of.

It makes me sick the way they're handling the situation.

Maybe they don't have faith in Ribeiro?

[Bonavistaman11]

They Should have faith in Ribeiro, he's the only real good center left. Keep this guy with Zednik all year and I think they'd both put up some big numbers. His line was definatly the best on the ice in the leaf game.

But i also like Zednik with Koivu and they seem to be good together.

Plekanec also looked flashy in the leaf game but i think he too small to stick with the team.

As for cuts, Dagenais should be sent down right away, he was horrible.

:ghg:

[CerebusClones]

Plekanec will be just fine, but he needs more time. He's not NHL-ready yet.

I also hope that Plekanec gets plenty of ice-time down in the AHL. I actually believe he could be our future second-line center.

Also, if Higgins is to play the wing in the NHL, he should play that position down in the AHL as well.

Maybe a first line of

Higgins-Plekanec-Balej

And then

Milroy-Gratton-Perezhogin

[montreal]

Originally posted by Bonavistaman11

They Should have faith in Ribeiro, he's the only real good center left.  Keep this guy with Zednik all year and I think they'd both put up some big numbers.  His line was definatly the best on the ice in the leaf game.

But i also like Zednik with Koivu and they seem to be good together.  

Plekanec also looked flashy in the leaf game but i think he too small to stick with the team.  

As for cuts, Dagenais should be sent down right away, he was horrible.

:ghg:

Ribeiro hasn't shown anything outside of preseason that management should have faith in him. He is lost in his own end, and gets knocked off the puck way too easily.

How is Plekanec small but Ribeiro not? At least Plekanec can skate and he's somewhat fast. Ribeiro is slow and can't skate very well, he might be taller then Plekanec, but Pleks weights about 200 lbs compared to Ribs who is listed at 175, but I wonder about that.

[Habs77]

A few thoughts:

- I'm so sick of people knocking Ribeiro. If it was any other kid (or older kid) that was consistently the best Habs player at every single game (pre-season or otherwise)... he'd be praised like there's no tomorrow.

But it's Ribeiro, so let's dump on him.

Fact is this team's #1 problem right now is not size or defense, but a TOTAL lack of offense. Ribeiro is just about the only player generating offense on this team right now... we need him in the lineup, desperately.

As for Ribeiro only shining during the pre-season, I think he also did very well during the 15 game stint he had to end last season... but of course he'll get no credit for that either *sigh*.

The one who sucked last year was Hossa, he was completely invisible during those 15 games... Ribeiro & Zednik were playing alone out there on that line.

Then Hossa was benched during the AHL playoffs because he was so inneffective.

And yet I barely see ANY negative comments about him, typical.

- Everyone is saying Zednik is playing well, but the fact is he's being set up brillantly all game long by Ribeiro and can never bury his chances... and this is our top sniper?

No wonder we have no offense.

- Everyone is rating the kids in camp, what about the vets? MANY of them are simply awful out there... they don't seem too scared of the new GM.

- Dagenais doesn't have a shot in hell IMO, and in an interview yesterday he seemed to agree. He said when he signed here he felt he had a very good chance of making the team, but now he doesn't know.

- I listened to the game on the radio, and a few times apparently Traverse made some big hits... I think he'll be our #7 this year.

#6 will either be Dykhuis, or if we manage to deal him... Hainsey.

Since Breezer will likely be traded sooner rather than later, Quintal will be able to remain on his natural right side.

[Edited on 24-9-03 by Habs77]

[CerebusClones]

Ribeiro has disappointed alot before, so people are very cautious.

I think he deserves a chance. He's got some very interesting skills, and he's our best shot for our second line. Unfortunately, he' has no one to set up, so I wouldn't more than 35-40 points out of him.

I agree about Zednik. People here are in love with Zednik, but the fact is and remains that he's nothing more than a second-liner. He works very hard, but isn't very talented. Many players could score 30 goals playing with Koivu, and it just shows you how good Koivu could be if he had some better wingers.

I've mentionned before that I would like to see Hossa at center. He said he's more comfortable there, so why not at least try him until Koivu comes back?

As for the veterans, it's not a big deal. The older guys like Quintal and Juneau don't want to risk an injury before the beginning of the season. What matters is how they'll play when the season begins.

The only problem I have so far regarding the camp, is how very little experimentation is being done. It's the perfect to mix things up, find good combinations, give different roles to certain playeres.

For example:

- Put Hossa as a center for a whole game

- Put Sundstrom in a more offensive role. Play him with Ribeiro and Zednik for example.

- Try Perreault on the wing, maybe he'll surprise many. Try him with Hossa and Bulis. Damphousse was re-born after moving to another position.

- Try Dackell on the Ribeiro-Zednik line. He might surprise. He has a good shot.

See what I mean. It's time to experiment, and instead it's always the pairings that, night after night, do nothing.

[CerebusClones]

Here's a crazy lineup for the beginning of the season, including both Koivu. It might look bad, but could it really be worse than any other?

Sundstrom-Koivu-Ryder

Perreault-Ribeiro-Zednik

Bulis-Hossa-Ward

Dackell-Juneau-Audette

First line: like Ottawa's Arvedson-White-Alfresson, you put your best player with some skilled, but non-offensive players, and you still get a good line.

Second Line: Ribeiro seems to see Zednik well on the ice, and Zednik might be the only guy who can convert more than 2% of those passes into goals. Perreault coudl do well on the wing, and convert another 1.5%, and we might get ourselves a 2nd line.

Third Line: All big, some, and quite sklilled players. Could perhaps become oor most offective 2-way line.

Forth Line: Bunch of vets we want to get rid of, but can't. They won't hurt us there, and fill in for injuries during a game. Maybe the rejection will bind them together, and they could become a decent line, who knows?

[montreal]

Originally posted by Habs77

A few thoughts:

- I'm so sick of people knocking Ribeiro. If it was any other kid (or older kid) that was consistently the best Habs player at every single game (pre-season or otherwise)... he'd be praised like there's no tomorrow.

But it's Ribeiro, so let's dump on him.

Fact is this team's #1 problem right now is not size or defense, but a TOTAL lack of offense. Ribeiro is just about the only player generating offense on this team right now... we need him in the lineup, desperately.

As for Ribeiro only shining during the pre-season, I think he also did very well during the 15 game stint he had to end last season... but of course he'll get no credit for that either *sigh*.

The one who sucked last year was Hossa, he was completely invisible during those 15 games... Ribeiro & Zednik were playing alone out there on that line.

Then Hossa was benched during the AHL playoffs because he was so inneffective.

And yet I barely see ANY negative comments about him, typical.

- Everyone is saying Zednik is playing well, but the fact is he's being set up brillantly all game long by Ribeiro and can never bury his chances... and this is our top sniper?

No wonder we have no offense.

- Everyone is rating the kids in camp, what about the vets? MANY of them are simply awful out there... they don't seem too scared of the new GM.

- Dagenais doesn't have a shot in hell IMO, and in an interview yesterday he seemed to agree. He said when he signed here he felt he had a very good chance of making the team, but now he doesn't know.

- I listened to the game on the radio, and a few times apparently Traverse made some big hits... I think he'll be our #7 this year.

#6 will either be Dykhuis, or if we manage to deal him... Hainsey.

Since Breezer will likely be traded sooner rather than later, Quintal will be able to remain on his natural right side.

[Edited on 24-9-03 by Habs77]

Well I'm so sick of Ribeiro. Forget the preseason it means nothing. Last year Ribeiro was good in preseason, Czerkawski was the leading scorer and Hainsey looked great. Where was Ribeiro the rest of the season? Yes he looked good at the end, what about the 70 other games?

I've been a Ribeiro fan since his junior days, but it's getting old. He has mad passing skills and is a very good stickhandler, but his play in his own end and along the boards is patheic. He's lost in his own end, but my biggest problem and complaint with Ribs is that he is knocked off the puck way way too easily.

Maybe the fact the Habs keep giving him a one year deal says something about their confidence in his play. No one doubts he has skills, and he's shown improvement every year, but with Perreault, Audette, Brezzy, Ribeiro, you have too many soft players that wont pay the price.

[huzer]

Well, I'll defend the kid. Until the last month of the year, he didn't get a whole lot of ice. We only played in 52 games last season, after missing the first 6 weeks or so with a training camp injury. If you look at his icetime for the month of March (significantly higher than any other time in the season, around 15 minutes or so p/g) Ribeiro put up 9 points in 13 games. Not tearing the place up, but pretty good, nonetheless.

Give him consistent ice time and see what he does. If Koivu and Ribs had someone who could find the back of the net, things would be a lot better. As much as I like Zed, he is a 2nd liner. He's tough as nails, and a great competitor, but his accuracy sometimes makes me wonder if he and Petrov practiced together too much.

[Habby1197]

About Zed, he's a first liner or an up and coming first liner. He's increasing his goal total each year he's been here... 19, 22, 31.. I know he played with Saku, but all the other first line wingers played with great centre's too. Zed might not be a superstar first liner but he's forsure a first line winger. Now if he scores 35 this year is he still a 2nd line winger? I dont think so. Zed is just coming into his own... I don't think its fair to say he's a second liner. Also he's VERY accurate from close range, he can roof the puck with ease... he misses a lot of shot because he LIKES to shoot. Zed is a goalscorer a natural too. He loves to shoot the puck, Now I'm not comparing him in anyway to Brett Hull in his prime, but just remember how often Hull missed the net... goal scorers love to shoot from all angles and everywhere on the ice, as Zed does... he in no way shape or form has the hands of Petrov, they are not even in the same league. I know you like Zed and everything... but saying he's a 2nd liner isn't fair. He's as much as a first liner as Martin St. Louis, Owen Nolan, Tony Amonte, Temmu Selanne, Petr Bondra, Simon Gagne and many more. Habs right now have 2 first line players... Zed and Saku and that's it. Bulis, Ribs, Hossa and the rest are second liners at the point.

[montreal]

Originally posted by Habby1197

About Zed, he's a first liner or an up and coming first liner. He's increasing his goal total each year he's been here... 19, 22, 31.. I know he played with Saku, but all the other first line wingers played with great centre's too. Zed might not be a superstar first liner but he's forsure a first line winger. Now if he scores 35 this year is he still a 2nd line winger? I dont think so. Zed is just coming into his own... I don't think its fair to say he's a second liner. Also he's VERY accurate from close range, he can roof the puck with ease... he misses a lot of shot because he LIKES to shoot. Zed is a goalscorer a natural too. He loves to shoot the puck, Now I'm not comparing him in anyway to Brett Hull in his prime, but just remember how often Hull missed the net... goal scorers love to shoot from all angles and everywhere on the ice, as Zed does... he in no way shape or form has the hands of Petrov, they are not even in the same league. I know you like Zed and everything... but saying he's a 2nd liner isn't fair. He's as much as a first liner as Martin St. Louis, Owen Nolan, Tony Amonte, Temmu Selanne, Petr Bondra, Simon Gagne and many more. Habs right now have 2 first line players... Zed and Saku and that's it. Bulis, Ribs, Hossa and the rest are second liners at the point.

Petrov career high 24 goals, Zednik 31. Doesn't look like he's that much better then Petrov. I know Zednik is way better then Petrov, but 7 goals isn't that much. Take away Zed's one good year, (same with Petrov) and he's a 20 goal guy. 2nd liner sounds right. I'm glad we have someone that will shoot the puck, but he shoots so much it hurts his game. If you are a goalie and it's a 2-1 with Zednik coming down, you know he's gonna shoot which makes it easier to defend against. But he's got great balance and we do need someone to fire the pucks, I just wish he would pass a little more or have better hockey sense, in that he should pick his passes at certain times.

[Habs77]

Originally posted by montreal

Well I'm so sick of Ribeiro.  Forget the preseason it means nothing. Yes he looked good at the end, what about the 70 other games?

Where was he?

ON THE FREAKIN' BENCH...in favor of old farts like Gilmour who wasn't half the player Ribeiro is/was.

In favor of Perreault who scored 2 goals in the 2nd half.

The second he got a regular shift with good wingers he did well.

He has mad passing skills and is a very good stickhandler, but his play in his own end and along the boards is patheic.  He's lost in his own end, but my biggest problem and complaint with Ribs is that he is knocked off the puck way way too easily.

You've just described more than half the team (if you take out the talented part), so why is Ribeiro the only criticized for it?

THAT is what bugs me.

The fact is he creates more offense than anyone on the team right now, even Koivu, so he's worth whatever defensive shortcomings he has.

And btw he has really improved defensively, yet gets zero credit for it... what a shocker.

He should get the chance to show us he can continue creating offense in the regular season, if he can't then that's that.

But to not give him the opportunity for yet another season, when this team is SO desperate for offense... would simply be stupid.

[Edited on 24-9-03 by Habs77]

[Habs77]

Originally posted by montreal

Petrov career high 24 goals, Zednik 31.  Doesn't look like he's that much better then Petrov.  I know Zednik is way better then Petrov, but 7 goals isn't that much.  Take away Zed's one good year, (same with Petrov) and he's a 20 goal guy.  2nd liner sounds right.  I'm glad we have someone that will shoot the puck, but he shoots so much it hurts his game.  If you are a goalie and it's a 2-1 with Zednik coming down, you know he's gonna shoot which makes it easier to defend against.  But he's got great balance and we do need someone to fire the pucks, I just wish he would pass a little more or have better hockey sense, in that he should pick his passes at certain times.

Zednik in his best year scored on 12.4% of his shots... not impressive.

All he's good at is shooting, which is why he'll never be a big point man. If he didn't get all that PP time his totals would be even lower.

When I look at it this way he's nothing but a 2nd liner.

But when I think back to how Zednik took over in the Boston series, he was scoring at will when the chips were down... then I wonder.

I think the difference is concentration, effort... he takes too many nights off.

That said he doesn't have the high-end talent of true 1st liners like Hedjuk, Hossa, Mogilny, Kovalchuk...etc

He can be a so-so 1st liner who can take it up a notch in the playoffs, or a really good 2nd liner.

We need more talent on this team... but when I think of midgets like Perezhogin & Kastitsyn as our future talent infusion I roll my eyes.

Why is talent and size always mutually exclusive on this team?... ugh

[montreal]

Originally posted by Habs77

Originally posted by montreal

Well I'm so sick of Ribeiro.  Forget the preseason it means nothing. Yes he looked good at the end, what about the 70 other games?

Where was he?

ON THE FREAKIN' BENCH...in favor of old farts like Gilmour who wasn't half the player Ribeiro is/was.

In favor of Perreault who scored 2 goals in the 2nd half.

The second he got a regular shift with good wingers he did well.

He has mad passing skills and is a very good stickhandler, but his play in his own end and along the boards is patheic.  He's lost in his own end, but my biggest problem and complaint with Ribs is that he is knocked off the puck way way too easily.

You've just described more than half the team (if you take out the talented part), so why is Ribeiro the only criticized for it?

THAT is what bugs me.

The fact is he creates more offense than anyone on the team right now, even Koivu, so he's worth whatever defensive shortcomings he has.

And btw he has really improved defensively, yet gets zero credit for it... what a shocker.

He should get the chance to show us he can continue creating offense in the regular season, if he can't then that's that.

But to not give him the opportunity for yet another season, when this team is SO desperate for offense... would simply be stupid.

[Edited on 24-9-03 by Habs77]

Ribeiro has been a minus player the entire time he's been in the NHL, no matter what line he's played on. This tends to cause coaches to lose confidence in players. No one will convince me that Ribeiro knows what he's doing in his own end as he looks lost and can't control his man down low. But your comments on Gilmor isn't cool. Gilmor has more heart then Ribs will ever dream of having. Gilmor was a great hockey player and shouldn't be in the same sentence as Ribeiro. You've got to be kidding. Perreault I consider in the same boat as Ribeiro, just he's a goal scorer and not a playmaker, while Ribs is a playmaker and not a goal scorer. I am sick of watching both of them, but I really can't stand Perreault who might be even worse then Ribs in his own end. Great at hitting the top corner though.

I can do a thread on the entire team, I don't play favorites with any player good or bad (or I try not to, I'm a big Markov fan, so maybe with him)

Creates offence in preseason? so? Lets see what Ribeiro does against the Devils, Flyers, or lined up against Sundin.

What's stupid is having Audette, Perreault, Ribeiro in out top 6. None of them work hard or pay the price, they don't skate well, aren't fast, aren't physical, and don't get the job done in their own end. But if we want a good draft position again, playing these guys will get us there.

[Bonavistaman11]

how do you Ribeiro bashers expect anything more then 10 or 15 points from him in the regular season the past few years?

He always seemed to prove he was gonna be the offensive player everyone expected him to be in the pre-season because he was playing with good players.

Then once the regular season started he was always a fourth liner, what can you expect from him playing with guys like Dwyer Mckay and Blouin, nothin exactly what he has been doing.

Make him the number 2 centerman and he'll put up some descent numbers (maybe 20 goals, 45-60 points.)

Im not saying he's a Superstar but the guy can play and deserves to be put in an offensive role this season.

Ribeiro will be one of the breakthrough players on the team this season.

:ghg:

[Chuko]

Look guys, the Ribeiro case is actually quite simple. As far as pure skills are concerned, he is hands down the Habs most gifted offensive player, even better than Koivu. He hasn't done anything good on a consistent basis with the team, but then again, he hasn't been given the chance.

So what do you do with him if you're management ? One of two things: trade him, or give him ice time on the top two lines and PP. You can't trade him because you're not likely to get equal value (which should be high) and you know that if you trade him, some team is going to pair him up with two gritty, skilled wingers and Ribs will flourish. So you have to wait, which is what management is doing, until Ribeiro finally breaks out. Every year that passes, Ribs gains maturity and experience, and eventually the right wingers will come along. Personnally, I think if Ribs stays healthy, he will prove himself this year and patience will pay off.

[montreal]

Originally posted by Chuko

Look guys, the Ribeiro case is actually quite simple.  As far as pure skills are concerned, he is hands down the Habs most gifted offensive player, even better than Koivu.  He hasn't done anything good on a consistent basis with the team, but then again, he hasn't been given the chance.

So what do you do with him if you're management ?  One of two things: trade him, or give him ice time on the top two lines and PP.  You can't trade him because you're not likely to get equal value (which should be high) and you know that if you trade him, some team is going to pair him up with two gritty, skilled wingers and Ribs will flourish.  So you have to wait, which is what management is doing, until Ribeiro finally breaks out.  Every year that passes, Ribs gains maturity and experience, and eventually the right wingers will come along.  Personnally, I think if Ribs stays healthy, he will prove himself this year and patience will pay off.

Oh man thats messed up. Ribeiro better then Koivu? What? Thats crazy. Not way not even close. Koivu had more assist then ANY habs had points. Koivu is a freaking all star and top notch player. Just what has Ribeiro done to deserve to be called better then Koivu? Nothing. He will NEVER been is the same level as Koivu, I can't believe people actually think this.

Ribeiro is a soft player that does well against poor defensive teams. He can create space for himself against the bigger stonger teams, and when he's on the ice he's a liability on the ice. He doesn't know what to do in his own end, and when he's there he gets outmuscled and outworked. I consider Ribeiro a lesser verison of Perreault.

[Chuko]

Originally posted by montreal

Oh man thats messed up.  Ribeiro better then Koivu?  What?  Thats crazy.  Not way not even close.  Koivu had more assist then ANY habs had points.  Koivu is a freaking all star and top notch player.  Just what has Ribeiro done to deserve to be called better then Koivu?  Nothing.  He will NEVER been is the same level as Koivu, I can't believe people actually think this.  

Ribeiro is a soft player that does well against poor defensive teams.  He can create space for himself against the bigger stonger teams, and when he's on the ice he's a liability on the ice.  He doesn't know what to do in his own end, and when he's there he gets outmuscled and outworked.  I consider Ribeiro a lesser verison of Perreault.

I never said Ribs was better than Koivu, I said Ribs had the most pure offensive skills on the Habs, including Koivu. Give yourself another chance, try reading it again, maybe this time you'll get it. :idea:

[Edited on 25-9-03 by Habs77]