Lineup when Koivu & Kilger returns

[Habs77]

Originally posted by ch_nl

And Bulis doesn't click with Dackell and Juneau.

Well all the other points can be debated, but this one is just wrong.

Bulis has been just about our best and most consistent player since re-joining the 3rd line. Juneau was smiling ear-to-ear when Bulis was back on his line, he loves the playing with the kid.

He's our best 2-way player and his best years are ahead of him.. no way should he be traded so we can keep a guy like Sundstrom, who doesn't do anything special.

We only have room for one of Dackell or Sundstrom, actually I wish both were gone... we're soft enough on the top lines, we can't afford to be soft on the 3rd too.

As for Zowpeb saying Bulis should play on the top lines, I disagree. He seems to shine more on the 3rd line, it looks like he enjoys getting defensive assignments.

And he actiually has better offensive games when on the 3rd line.

I compare him to a guy like Rolston, a 3rd liner that can shut down the opposing 1st line but also have good offensive numbers. This is how Bulis can help this team the most IMO.

Another guy I think would have the same type of success on the 3rd line is Hossa. He's a natural center and doesn't like the wing, it completely affects his play. Next year Juneau will be gone, and Hossa would be a perfect replacement. His defense is very underrated, and the 3rd line with Hossa & Bulis would bring some size & speed to the line to better contain guys like Sundin & Thornton, not to mention more offense.

I'm afraid the Habs will give up on Hossa without ever having played him at his natural position... that would be a shame. He's unhappy & uncomfortable, and I think that's why he's not playing like he can since he's been with us.

I can't stand his lack of aggressiveness on most nights... but I'd wait before I'd give up on him until next year, when Juneau will be gone and he could get a chance to play center.

If we do that next year:

Ryder-Koivu-Perezhogin (or Audette if Perez isn't ready)

Higgins-Ribeiro-Zednik

Bulis-Hossa-Kilger

Langdon-Begin-Ward

[Bonavistaman11]

Perreault should be gone soon. He's the only center on the team that i think we can get rid of at the moment.

When Koivu returns to form he'll be the #1 guy followed by Ribs, juneau and Begin or Kilger.

Unless Perreault plays on one of the top two lines he's no good to us, and for sure he wont be ahead of Koivu or Ribs on the depth chart.

Even though i was highly against Juneau at the beginning of the year, him, Dackell and Bulis have been very strong defensively and theres no way that Perreault is capable of doing the job Juneau is doing. Perreault would also be a waste on the 4th line as well becasue we need energy players like begin on that line, and if the habs were to put Perreault in that position the team would struggle big time, it would also be a waste of money.

For now the lines should be like this:

Ryder-Koivu-Audette

Hossa-Ribeiro-Zednik

Bulis-Juneau-Dackell

Sundstrom-Begin-Ward

When kilger returns id put him in Sundstroms position (Sundstrom should be dealt as well), and use Langdon when he's needed, like against the Leafs and Flyers.

But with Perreault still on the team whats gonna happen to the lineup when Koivu gets back into game shape and on the #1 line?

:ghg:

[Habs77]

Julien has said he'll get creative, and mentionned Koivu, Perreault and Ribeiro could all play the wing.

If we go according to performance, Hossa would be the current "top 6" forward who would lose out.

Plus he's young and thus easier to demote for the coach. Also, he has the size and defensive awareness to play on the 3rd or 4th line if it comes to that... while guys like Audette, Perreault or Ribeiro don't fit in that role.

Then there's always the off-chance Ryder might be sent back down to the 4th line, but I doubt it.

I'd try this to start off, if it doesn't work change it:

Koivu-Ribeiro-Zednik (Koivu takes the draws)

Ryder-Perreault-Audette

Bulis-Juneau-Dackell

Hossa-Begin-Ward

And if we were somehow able to rid ourselves of Audette... Hossa could move back up.

But if we leave Hossa on the 4th line for very long, we'll lose him for good. He won't play much, be unhappy... his play will suffer, then we'll end up trading him for below value.

Gainey needs trim the roster SOON.

[Edited on 22-10-03 by Habs77]

[TheAussiePosse]

Wasn't Marian Hossa a LW for some time before moving to RW?

As much as I like Hossa, I still think we could get something better for him.

I propose we try to pry Havlat off Ottawa for Hossa, or Hossa and a pick.

Havlat would then play with Koivu on the top line. Then, if Ryder continues playing the way he is now, stick him on RW on that line. And then trade Dackell for a pick so Ward can take over 3rd line RW. And trade Sundstrom for a pick, or a gamble player. Maybe Minnesota? Then trade Perreault. Then put Kilger, Langdon and Begin in the lineup together on the 4th line.

Then we look to move Juneau as well, maybe put him back in the deal with Dackell, and, if all that's worked out, sure, get Primeau like the rumors were there before. Slot him in on the 4th line.

Havlat-Koivu-Ryder

Zednik-Ribeiro-Audette

Bulis-Primeau-Ward

Langdon-Kilger-Begin

OK, now we trade Audette because he's a bum, but he has good scoring totals (maybe a point a game?). Trade him for... Martin Lapointe, whose salary is 3/5 eaten by Boston. Lapointe then picks up his game, becoming the second coming of 'Pointu (see Ken Dryden era).

Man, I hope Bob does something soon. This is killing me

[Bonavistaman11]

The Perreault Ryder Audette line doenst seem to be clicking anymore. They do get some good chances and Ryder works hard all the time. Audette had one good game but to me he's just like he was last year, he hardly ever gets the puck out in the defensive zone and he never wins a battle along the boards.

I think the line should be split up and while Ryder has his confidence up and is playing well put him with Koivu.

Some top line possibilities?

Zednik-Koivu-Ryder

Bulis-Koivu-Ryder

Koivu-Perreault-Ryder

Ribs-Koivu-Ryder

Koivu-Ribs Ryder

or even Ryder-Koivu-Audette

or a top line of Zednik-Koivu-Audette and 2nd line of

Hossa-Ribeiro-Ryder.

Another possibilty would be for Gainey to ship off two or three players and get a real top line player!

:ghg:

[Habs77]

There many different potential lines we can come up with.

The only 2 guys I don't want to see on the same line are Perreault & Zednik. They are our 2 best snipers, or natural goal scorers if you will, I want one on each line.

From there, you have 2 schools of thought:

1- Disturb only one of the lines... because both are doing well.

In that case Koivu plays on the line of the guy who'll get the demotion. If Hossa is the one who loses his "top 6" status, then you have Ribeiro-Koivu-Zednik... in whatever order.

2- Who cares about not disturbing lines, we've only had 14 & 15 shots the last 2 games... we need a shakeup.

Perreault had his best moments when he had Gilmour, a natural center and playmaker, on his line. So you play him with Koivu and hope to the same formula works.

Perreault-Koivu-Ryder

Zednik-Ribeiro-Audette

or

Perreault-Koivu-Audette

Ryder-Ribeiro-Zednik

This is all assuming Hossa would be the one losing his spot of course.

I'd go with:

Perreault-Koivu-Ryder

Zednik-Ribeiro-Audette

Zednik & Ryder are the two "bulldog" types, if the play together the other line is way too soft is small.

And as I said I don't want Perreault & Zednik together either.

This way Ribeiro keeps his man Zed, and Koivu gets a sniper and a physical player to shake things up... and both like to shoot. Perreault would take the faceoffs then play wing.

Then again Ribeiro is having an awful time in the faceoff circle, playing him with either Koivu or Perreault would prevent that weakness from being exposed.

Ah screw it, let CJ wrestle with all the "what ifs" and come up with something... it's giving me a headache

[Edited on 23-10-03 by Habs77]

[ch_nl]

Habs 77 wrote:

1- Disturb only one of the lines... because both are doing well.

They are but isn't the main reason for that the fact that our defencive works?

I have tought about it and here's what I came up with:

1. Zednik and Koivu on the first line. A goal scorer and our best center. Ryder seems to be a lucky pick. And since Ribs doesn't seems to work on the wing Ryder is the only option if we want him among the top-6 in this scenario.

2. Ribeiro and Perreault. Having Ribs on the center but Perreault to take the faceoffs. Maybe Audette with them. Not a hard-hitting line but it could work.

3. Juneau and Dackell works well togheter. Bulis seems to like playing on the third line with some defensive responibility. In my mind I would rather see Sundström than Dackell but one can't ignore that Dackell and Juneau works that well togheter.

4. Ward and Hossa. Kilger to center. Play Begin or Langdon when we are facing stronger teams. Hossa and Ward will get more ice-time when somebody are out with an injury.

So... Even if I don't want it... Sundström is the one out the day Kilger and Koivu are ready.