dlbalr Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Part of me is inclined to put this in the prospect section, but considering Karri Ramo isn't really a prospect (too old and too many NHL GP), so I'll put it here instead. Yesterday, Ramo was named to Team Jagr for the upcoming KHL All-Star Game. He was voted in by the fans but unlike a lot of fan votes in various sports, this was legitimate, as he has a GAA of 1.94 and SV% of .927 on the top team in the KHL, Avangard Omsk. This will be the 2nd straight appearance for him in the All-Star Game, after bolting from Tampa Bay. How is this relevant? As most of you know by now, Ramo's KHL deal expires after this season, he may be ready to take on a full time NHL gig now. Thing is though, given his success overseas, will he want to leave? http://en.khl.ru/news/2011/1/14/24007.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lammy Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Thing is though, given his success overseas, will he want to leave? Leaving or staying might also depend on who is willing to pay the most for his services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Leaving or staying might also depend on who is willing to pay the most for his services. Considering his success there and Price's with the Habs, Omsk probably will be offering the most money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Considering his success there and Price's with the Habs, Omsk probably will be offering the most money. Of course, you still have to live in Omsk to take their money. It's pretty much as far away from anywhere as you can possibly be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.moustakas Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Of course, you still have to live in Omsk to take their money. It's pretty much as far away from anywhere as you can possibly be. Wait, so Omsk is not a bustling, cosmopolitan metropolis? Who knew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Those numbers have no context so we can't really determine if it is him or the strength of his team. I have read this stuff before in Toronto. Mikael Tellqvist - Lead the SEL in SV% in the regular season (.917). Lead the playoffs with a .931 and won the championship with Djurgårdens IF. Jonas Gustavsson - Lead the SEL in SV% in the regular season (.938). Lead the playoffs with a .961 and won the championship with Färjestads BK. Future stars right? There is no context provided in how they accrued those stats. Currently there is no proper context to compare NHL goaltenders, how the hell can we use stats in the KHL and give them context when we have no access to game sheets, shot charts, strength of opposition etc. Should I be excited because Rammo has a .928 SV% in the KHL? I don't know, should the Thrashers bring back Michael Garnett because he has a .925% in the KHL this season? Should the aforementioned NHL backup Mikael Tellqvist return to the NHL with his .921 SV%? Patrick Roy had a 6.26 GAA in Granby and made the Hall of Fame. Justin Pogge had a .926 SV% on a powerhouse Hitman team and can't find a regular job. Those numbers mean nothing to me. Edited January 19, 2011 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 I don't think anyone's saying he's going to be a future star, I know I'm not trying to imply it. I think these do paint enough of a portrait to suggest he'd be a competent NHL backup - some felt he was one 2 years ago when the Lightning moved him up and down between the NHL/AHL. With a couple more years of simply playing under his belt as a true #1 (he was a 1A/1B with the Bolts), it stands to reason theoretically that his play has improved; his numbers certainly suggest the opposite. I'm sure he's on a pretty good team (I recognize a few names on the roster) but he does play a role in their success. Yes, we can't infer a ton from the numbers except for this - he probably isn't hurting his chances of coming back to the NHL next season (should he want to), based on his play thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) I don't think anyone's saying he's going to be a future star, I know I'm not trying to imply it. I think these do paint enough of a portrait to suggest he'd be a competent NHL backup - some felt he was one 2 years ago when the Lightning moved him up and down between the NHL/AHL. With a couple more years of simply playing under his belt as a true #1 (he was a 1A/1B with the Bolts), it stands to reason theoretically that his play has improved; his numbers certainly suggest the opposite. I'm sure he's on a pretty good team (I recognize a few names on the roster) but he does play a role in their success. Yes, we can't infer a ton from the numbers except for this - he probably isn't hurting his chances of coming back to the NHL next season (should he want to), based on his play thus far. I am not suggesting anything outside of those numbers mean nothing to me. People pick and choose what numbers they want to support their narrative, but they mean nothing without context or proper comparables. The question is. Is he better than Alex Auld or Curtis Sanford and will he cost more than them? If the answer is no, then I don't give a shit what his numbers are in the KHL. Some fans will look at his KHL numbers and present the scenario that "he was to young" and he has now matured. It is based on age, nationality and the unknown factor. Fans like to salivate over "unknown potential". Auld and Sanford had better resumes at his age. Sanford is destroying the AHL this season yet nobody talks about Curtis Sanford. He is a scrub, a career backup right? So was Tim Thomas until he landed on one of the most dominant defensive teams of the last 5 years. Desjardins lit up the AHL last season, but so did Curtis Sanford. The Canadiens let Desjardins go and people freaked, when the scenario was presented that Sanford could be the backup, people reacted like that was crazy. Same numbers. Different response. The fact is, I could dress up Sanford and Ramo in blank Canadiens jerseys and tell fans to tell me which one is better and you would get a 50/50 split. Remove the name, age and stat background and most people have no idea why Alex Auld is better than Michael Leighton. Add the name on the back of the jersey and the ratio will change dramatically in favour of Ramo because one has been prejudged as irrelevant and the other "could" be good. Edited January 19, 2011 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Can't say I disagree with those comments, Wamsley. I feel bad that Sanford gets little attention, that was one of the reasons I added some notes in the General Bulldogs thread as to how dominant he has been this year, he has been phenomenal for them. As for Ramo, I think we can agree on this much at least - considering the Habs dealt for him, they probably consider him to be in the mix for the #2 next year. Whether he competes with Auld, Sanford, or whoever else, doesn't really matter. The fact that he's an All Star in the KHL will be a tick in the pro column in terms of evaluating the pros and cons of moving forward with him. I would think (and hope) at least that some of the international scouts the Habs employ will take in a few Omsk games to get a more objective look as well, clearly they won't base the decision solely on numbers alone. But despite the lack of comparables in terms of QualComp, shot charts, and whatnot as you noted, the numbers will still play some sort of role, and no matter how good the team in front of him is, they too will help his cause. (While also serving as an argument to those who want to defend the Desjardins trade, justifiable or not.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Can't say I disagree with those comments, Wamsley. I feel bad that Sanford gets little attention, that was one of the reasons I added some notes in the General Bulldogs thread as to how dominant he has been this year, he has been phenomenal for them. As for Ramo, I think we can agree on this much at least - considering the Habs dealt for him, they probably consider him to be in the mix for the #2 next year. Whether he competes with Auld, Sanford, or whoever else, doesn't really matter. The fact that he's an All Star in the KHL will be a tick in the pro column in terms of evaluating the pros and cons of moving forward with him. I would think (and hope) at least that some of the international scouts the Habs employ will take in a few Omsk games to get a more objective look as well, clearly they won't base the decision solely on numbers alone. But despite the lack of comparables in terms of QualComp, shot charts, and whatnot as you noted, the numbers will still play some sort of role, and no matter how good the team in front of him is, they too will help his cause. (While also serving as an argument to those who want to defend the Desjardins trade, justifiable or not.) The only reason I care about Ramo's numbers is the potential asset he could return. It is easy to for GMs to be seduced by large numbers, so maybe he can be added to a deal to make the Habs better. If he signs as the backup for around the same as the other two would, then I am fine with that as long as they keep a seasoned pro like Sanford around in Hamilton. Edited January 19, 2011 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 The only reason I care about Ramo's numbers is the potential asset he could return. It is easy to for GMs to be seduced by large numbers, so maybe he can be added to a deal to make the Habs better. If he signs as the backup for around the same as the other two would, then I am fine with that as long as they keep a seasoned pro like Sanford around in Hamilton. Yep, a trade is always an option, especially with his KHL deal expiring. Money wise, I suspect the Habs will come in around $1 million again for whoever they want to back up Price, Ramo probably would have to take a pay cut to come over, he would if he really wanted back into the NHL, as his agent insisted back when the trade was made. Fully agree on Sanford too, the Bulldogs need an established goalie with not a whole lot currently coming up the pipeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 It should be noted that Finland generally chooses to play Petri Vehanen over Ramo at international tournaments. Ramo was a promising goaltending prospect who probably didn't have much of a chance to succeed due to the Lightning's incompetence. If he wants to give the NHL another go, that's fine, but I doubt the Habs would pay too much for his services, when there is a glut of NHL caliber goalies available on the free agent market every year. Gerber came back from the KHL to be a well paid AHL goalie, so it's not implausible that Ramo would do something similar just to get his foot back in the door. Ramo is also 6'3", 207. The Habs do like their NHL goalies big (not as much as Nashville, though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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