option+ Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I am completely and totally against mortgaging out the future just for a few more points this season. That being said, I think most people here agree that we need a true scorer, not just for now but for the future too. We have a lot of two-way forwards - Bulis, Higgins, Bégin, Plekanec and Sundstrom come to mind - many of which are young and have many, many productive years ahead of them. Judging from the scouting reports I've read about Chipchura he's also a "two-way forward", albeit with more offensive upside than Bégin, Bulis or Sundstrom. So obviously we're pretty much set in terms of two-way forwards both for now and in the future. It would make sense to move one of them to get a scorer. I like what I've seen from Higgins and Plekanec so far and wouldn't want to see them leave town. Bulis and Bégin for me are core players and shouldn't be dealt under any circumstances. Trading Sundstrom isn't going to get us a good scorer. That leaves Chipchura. I'm fairly certain we could trade him to a team with no organizational depth in exchange for a scorer, a pretty decent one at that. Would anybody be against this? I just don't see how else we'd get a scorer in a trade without trading one of our own scorers, one of our D or a goalie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafs Suck Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 So everyone is whining about trading Garon, now you want to trade a very good young prospect to get what? This team is NOT going to win the Cup this year. Sorry to break your hearts but it's true. Maybe, just maybe, keeping the young players is the best thing Gainey can do. Inless you want to turn into the Leafs and trade every good young player you get for some over-the-hill bum then go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makh2o Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 The one thing Chipchura brings that Pleks, and Higgins lack, is SIZE....who's gonna match up against the Sundin's and Thornton's of the league? Plus, as the last post mentions, we're not gonna win a cup this year, or next....so why give away the futur for a chance at the second round of the playoffs, when we can keep building, and take a solid run at the cup in a few years..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habschris Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Two way forwards are fine, the problem is that all the habs 2 way forwards don't score, don't hint and don't play with an edge. Why can't we trade some of our D, The core has been here for several years and they have always been average at best. The D needs to be addressed as well. Trading a good prospect is not necassary now, the habs need to trade for D help and some tough gritty forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
option+ Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Originally posted by Leafs SuckSo everyone is whining about trading Garon, now you want to trade a very good young prospect to get what? This team is NOT going to win the Cup this year. Sorry to break your hearts but it's true. Maybe, just maybe, keeping the young players is the best thing Gainey can do. Inless you want to turn into the Leafs and trade every good young player you get for some over-the-hill bum then go ahead. "I am completely and totally against mortgaging out the future just for a few more points this season. That being said, I think most people here agree that we need a true scorer, not just for now BUT FOR THE FUTURE too." I'm suggesting trading a player who would fill a role that is already stacked with good, young talent. And I didn't suggest trading Chipchura for a 38 year old washed up former 30 goal scorer. Balej was a good prospect too. Does that mean we shouldn't have traded him for Kovalev? I'm not saying we should turn into the ######ing Leafs... oh, forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_ Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Trade Chipchura? That's crazy talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
option+ Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect/kyle_chipchura Sounds a lot like Bonk to me. A big third-liner, some offensive upside but "foot speed is going to be a concern." I just don't think he's an elite prospect, I've never thought that. And if we can get a proven, youngish scorer in return, I'd trade him in a second. However, I seem like the only one, so I'll shut up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Originally posted by TonyTrade Chipchura? That's crazy talk. amen. chipchura is exactly what the doctor ordered for our lack of size. in a few years we'll see chipchura and latendresse in the lineup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie_Morenz Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Originally posted by option+ Originally posted by Leafs SuckSo everyone is whining about trading Garon, now you want to trade a very good young prospect to get what? This team is NOT going to win the Cup this year. Sorry to break your hearts but it's true. Maybe, just maybe, keeping the young players is the best thing Gainey can do. Inless you want to turn into the Leafs and trade every good young player you get for some over-the-hill bum then go ahead. "I am completely and totally against mortgaging out the future just for a few more points this season. That being said, I think most people here agree that we need a true scorer, not just for now BUT FOR THE FUTURE too." I'm suggesting trading a player who would fill a role that is already stacked with good, young talent. And I didn't suggest trading Chipchura for a 38 year old washed up former 30 goal scorer. Balej was a good prospect too. Does that mean we shouldn't have traded him for Kovalev? I'm not saying we should turn into the ######ing Leafs... oh, forget it. Guys, Leafs Suck made two good points. 1. Don't trade the youth away. 2. Don't try to be like LeafNAZI. At the start of the year I thought Montreal could finish high and make a run. Now it looks like a dogfight for playoff spots. Montreal will be there, I just have no clue how high now. If there are trades to improve now and for the future do it. If not, we don't want someone elses rejects for players that don't play well for Montreal. Patience my fellow habs fans. Sometimes, patience is a hard pill to swallow after games like the Leaf game and no goals against the Sens. And it is good to see we can argue here without resorting to Leaf like attitudes. [Edited on 2005/11/30 by Howie_Morenz] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I dont think they should trade Chipchura beacuse when a player is rated by most scouts as a future 3rd line checking centre then what are the hasb going to get in return. Not anyone useful beacuse GM's are not retarted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Scratch that Mike Dingleberry is still the GM of the iles lets trade Chipchura and Bonk for Ryan O'Marra and a 1st round draft pick hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I can easilly understand the perception that something as to be done to avoid the CH falling to far behind while Kovalev is out. There is tremendous competition going on in the East and some say that the CH could well find themselves in 12th position in less then five games from now.......I can only imagine what would be the situation if you double that number games,... never mind triple it. BG did not plan for the worst case scenario but it seems that it is happening. He fell short by not giving Julien extra offensive ammunitions to give the team a confortable ride towards play-off participation. He could have loaded the first line and re-enforce the second line by moving Zednick where he belongs. Perhaps getting players like Dimitra was incompatible with the overall intrisiquity of making such commitment,.....but Selane or Gonchar where available with very little demmands on their own. The letting go of Hossa, bum or not, was also a little dairing. Bob was behind all the rule changes this year,...he was in a good position to appreciate the relevance of having good offensive ammunitions in one's team this year,.....but failed to give the team enought fire power in case Kovalev or Koivu would go on missing.....in that respect this thread from OPTION+ is, UNFORTUNATLY, far from being innapropriate in term of,,,, ''the exploration'' as of to what would the CH be able to do if in order to salvage itself from a non-play-off participation became a real issue. [Edited on 2005/11/30 by PB] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Originally posted by JMMRI dont think they should trade Chipchura beacuse when a player is rated by most scouts as a future 3rd line checking centre then what are the hasb going to get in return. Not anyone useful beacuse GM's are not retarted. Agree. The proposal is to trade an unproven prospect for a proven, young scorer? Actually, I agree they should do it... but nobody will agree to the other side of this transaction. I don't think any GM would take our proven, 2-way players for a young scorer, never mind a prospect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
option+ Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Before this year, I would have agreed with that. But everything is different with the new CBA. Anaheim just traded Sergei Fedorov for a fourth liner and a career minor leaguer. You're telling me that was a fair hockey trade? It was a salary dump, pure and simple. We're going to see lots of trades that make no sense from an on-ice standpoint. Most of them will be prospects or minor leaguers traded for proven NHLers. Prospects are infinitely more valuable now than before, for the simple reason that they're cheap. I just floated the idea... OK, everyone thinks I'm an idiot for thinking that trading Chipchura is a good idea. Fine. But don't tell me it's not possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohabsgo252006 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 The one thing that nobody mentioned...THe reason that Chipchura has been rated as highly as he is, when projected to be a 3rd line center, 2 way with some offensive potential is his leadership skills. Everything I have herad about this kid, draws comparisons to Carbonneau. Highly regarded as a possible future NHL captain. I wouldn't trade him, i would rather trade other prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Leafs SUck, what are you doing man? Not going to win the cup this year? From a Habs fan? Sacrilige ! You must say 17 Go Habs Go and beg the ghosts for forgiveness Go to the back of the Bell Center, get some zamboni water and spinkle it over your head. ALL WILL BE GOOD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Originally posted by option+Before this year, I would have agreed with that. But everything is different with the new CBA. Anaheim just traded Sergei Fedorov for a fourth liner and a career minor leaguer. You're telling me that was a fair hockey trade? It was a salary dump, pure and simple. We're going to see lots of trades that make no sense from an on-ice standpoint. Most of them will be prospects or minor leaguers traded for proven NHLers. Prospects are infinitely more valuable now than before, for the simple reason that they're cheap. I just floated the idea... OK, everyone thinks I'm an idiot for thinking that trading Chipchura is a good idea. Fine. But don't tell me it's not possible. I guess it's possible... but you did say 'youngish'. Fedorov is 35. Most of the proven guys are older, and making the big bucks, which makes that scenario more plausible. The young guys make less (generally), and so you won't see as many salary dumps. There would also be more teams interested in a young, proven, scorer, even if he had a big contract, which would increase the asking price beyond that of a prospect. Scratch the 'young' condition, and your idea makes sense to me. It's just like the Kovalev-Balej deal, actually, which looks to be good so far. We may see something happen closer to the trade deadline (although picking up a good dman is more likely, IMO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olematelot Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 It appears there are a few people who are in the old panic mode due no doubt to the teams present slide, trading the future is no way to conduct business. Who can possibly predict what kind of player Chip will be in a few years . It would be very depressing to trade him now and he turns out to be an impact player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
option+ Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 I don't think trading one prospect constitutes "trading the future", especially considering how many good young forwards we have in the organization. I'd like to hold on to as many prospects as possible too. But if we have a chance to trade one of them and significantly upgrade our team (not just for now but for the future as well), then why not? Yes, it is depressing to trade a prospect and watch them play well in another city. It's also depressing to draft a guy in the first round and watch them completely fail, like we've had to do with Hainsey, Chouinard, Matt Higgins, Terry Ryan, Brad Brown, David Wilkie, Brent Bilodeau... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Originally posted by option+Yes, it is depressing to trade a prospect and watch them play well in another city. It's also depressing to draft a guy in the first round and watch them completely fail, like we've had to do with Hainsey, Chouinard, Matt Higgins, Terry Ryan, Brad Brown, David Wilkie, Brent Bilodeau... Just looking at those names makes me sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olematelot Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Originally posted by option+I don't think trading one prospect constitutes "trading the future", especially considering how many good young forwards we have in the organization. I'd like to hold on to as many prospects as possible too. But if we have a chance to trade one of them and significantly upgrade our team (not just for now but for the future as well), then why not? Yes, it is depressing to trade a prospect and watch them play well in another city. It's also depressing to draft a guy in the first round and watch them completely fail, like we've had to do with Hainsey, Chouinard, Matt Higgins, Terry Ryan, Brad Brown, David Wilkie, Brent Bilodeau... Chipchura is unproven, your not going to get an immediate upgrade to the team for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 The drafting hasn't been very good in the first round. And for all the much-ballyhooed skills of Savard, we've gone basically 1 for 3 with his first round selections of Hossa, Hainsey and Komisarek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Keep Chipchura. He's one of our top 4 prospects and he might be he best 2-way forward in the league someday. Kind of like John Madden. And Gainey would want to keep someone who plays just like he used to. I'd rather trade one of our other prospects. But then again, I'd rather not trade any prospects. We're not contenders so there's no point trading up for a playoff run. Look at Boston. They gave up on the season to get their team set for next season (not that that was a good trade but it had good intentions by the BOS GM.) Trade Bonk fist, then look at our expendable players and THEN look at the prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 No one would want Bonk, heck if he was waived I sincerely doubt he would be picked up. Deja vu of Todd Marchant I would suspect. Decent checking centre, big salary of 2.4 mil = no takers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Originally posted by smonNo one would want Bonk, heck if he was waived I sincerely doubt he would be picked up. Deja vu of Todd Marchant I would suspect. Decent checking centre, big salary of 2.4 mil = no takers. He was taken by Anaheim. ANd Bonk has more offensive upside then Marchant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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