PMAC Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Are the 2005-06 Montreal Canadiens a horse---- hockey club? Or are there some thoroughbreds somewhere in that dressing room? And wouldn't it be great if Brent Sutter were bilingual? mboone@thegazette.canwest.com http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...74-efb34a5ed7ce So far tonight the throughbreds. Let's hope the effort lasts 60 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Are the 2005-06 Montreal Canadiens a horse---- hockey club? Or are there some thoroughbreds somewhere in that dressing room? And wouldn't it be great if Brent Sutter were bilingual? mboone@thegazette.canwest.com http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...74-efb34a5ed7ce So far tonight the throughbreds. Let's hope the effort lasts 60 minutes he doesn't have to be bilingual all of the players can speak english if he was to lead this team to be a winning team then, i'm sure that the franco-fans would be quite content - i would be anyway it would likely lead to some controversies but that would be from those who want to create a controversy - and they are there, by the way. but, as above, if he was to lead this team to greater & greater success then the fan base would be quite happy with the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 Actually, the essential question was to the pedigree of this years Habs. I dont think the coach is the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I'm a firm believer that GMs of the past were either instructed from higher up or of their own mind decided to focus entirely on hiring francophone coaches, and when you look at the record over the past ten years, it has been to the detriment of the team and player development. Aside from Alain Vigneault and Claude Julien, none have lasted a full two seasons, and none have won more than a single playoff round. Mario Tremblay was hired with no experience whatsoever, and was ultimately a huge mistake that probably cost the team a few years of playoff hockey. The fact that most of the coaches were hired mid-season makes matters even worse. There was no candidate list, no extensive interview process. It's been fire-the-old-coach, hire-the-new coach. And I wonder how many coaches were overlooked and outright ignored because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Coach needs to talk to the media, I think that's why bilingual coaches are preferred in Mtl. I agree the team should look at a wider pool when choosing a coach, but it's the Habs' burden. On the other hand, an anglo coach with a saucy franco-fille interpreter would be an idea, I don't think JdeM would complain if she winked when she said 'rondelle'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) Sorry, but when you give more interviews every day than the Premier of the province, you have to know a minimum of French. Dont need to be fluent, but its a requirement of the job. Its part of the competences necessary, weither you guys like it or not. Its the most scrutinized job in the province if not the entire country. It could work with lesser teams like the Expos or Alouettes, but not the Habs. You can't put someone there that have to be translated 100% of the time and with whom fans can't talk or connect. A unilingual Habs coach would have to have tremendous prestige amongst the fans and medias if he were to survive. And he would be forced to prove that he's 100 times better than any available bilingual coach out there. You think that's possible with the current roster? And this stuff about people who want to start controversy... What kind of controversy do you think the Toronto medias would stir up if, let's say, the Blue Jays hired a unilingual Hispanophone who couldnt give any interview in English? Boone's an idiot if he think Sutter is the answer. I doubt Brent Sutter would be much of an improvement over CJ. 2 Gold medals at the WJC and suddenly he's getting hyped as the next Bowman. Anyone failed to notice that Canada is so strong they could send 2 teams and both would have good chances to finish with a medal? So what he's a frickin' Sutter. Bonne and his ilks need to get over the whole "1st family of hockey" Sutter crap already. Working with 18 yrs old kids who have something to prove and working with 30 yrs old adults who earn millions are two worlds appart. Sutter never coached in the NHL (or the AHL) before and wouldn't bring much more in the way of experience than a guy with the same philosophy like Jarvis, who've seen much more than Sutter both on the ice and behind the bench. Edited January 10, 2006 by KoZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Actually, the essential question was to the pedigree of this years Habs. I dont think the coach is the problem *multiple mixed metaphor alert* Habs 05/06 are a motley crew. I think a tune-up is in order, and some bad eggs may have to be weeded out to get us back on the right road, or else we may continue to sink. I would guess a trade is coming before Turin, anyway we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 *multiple mixed metaphor alert* Habs 05/06 are a motley crew. I think a tune-up is in order, and some bad eggs may have to be weeded out to get us back on the right road, or else we may continue to sink. I would guess a trade is coming before Turin, anyway we'll see. Totally right there JLP. This is a team who's still in building (read: transition) mode and CJ-BG are slowly and patiently putting their stamp on the team. Fans and medias live in the day-to-day and jump the gun at the first opportunity. GMs and coaches dont have that luxury because there is consequences to their actions. Better be safe than sorry. Starting to turn the roster upside down because of a slump is what Houle-Tremblay did and we're still feeling the effects nearly 10 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Totally right there JLP. This is a team who's still in building (read: transition) mode and CJ-BG are slowly and patiently putting their stamp on the team. Fans and medias live in the day-to-day and jump the gun at the first opportunity. GMs and coaches dont have that luxury because there is consequences to their actions. Better be safe than sorry. Starting to turn the roster upside down because of a slump is what Houle-Tremblay did and we're still feeling the effects nearly 10 years later. As I said before, and will say again, all hail BG, CJ and AS and give thanks. :bow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Sorry, but when you give more interviews every day than the Premier of the province, you have to know a minimum of French. Dont need to be fluent, but its a requirement of the job. Its part of the competences necessary, weither you guys like it or not. Its the most scrutinized job in the province if not the entire country. It could work with lesser teams like the Expos or Alouettes, but not the Habs. You can't put someone there that have to be translated 100% of the time and with whom fans can't talk or connect. A unilingual Habs coach would have to have tremendous prestige amongst the fans and medias if he were to survive. And he would be forced to prove that he's 100 times better than any available bilingual coach out there. You think that's possible with the current roster? Was Scotty Bowman bilingual when he was coaching the Habs to all those Cups? And who was the last coach hired who didn't have a francophone name? Pat Burns? Yeah, he was a really poor choice. In fact, some would have to read his bio to know that Claude Julien was born in Ontario and not Quebec. I agree completely that the team has to be able to communicate with the francophone media, but that doesn't necessarily mean than you not consider candidates who may not happen to be perfectly bilingual, or who have no interest in learning to improve their French. Does Ted Nolan speak French? Are there guys coaching in the Ontario or Western Leagues who are bilingual? The American League? Boone's an idiot if he think Sutter is the answer. I doubt Brent Sutter would be much of an improvement over CJ. 2 Gold medals at the WJC and suddenly he's getting hyped as the next Bowman. Anyone failed to notice that Canada is so strong they could send 2 teams and both would have good chances to finish with a medal? So what he's a frickin' Sutter. Bonne and his ilks need to get over the whole "1st family of hockey" Sutter crap already. Working with 18 yrs old kids who have something to prove and working with 30 yrs old adults who earn millions are two worlds appart. Sutter never coached in the NHL (or the AHL) before and wouldn't bring much more in the way of experience than a guy with the same philosophy like Jarvis, who've seen much more than Sutter both on the ice and behind the bench. I will agree that coaching in a tournament setting is very different from coaching over a season. There are guys who played for Sutter who may not have been able to adapt to his style of play over a 70+ game season, but could do it over a two-week period with no problems. And as was said, there's more talent on that team than most club teams could ever wish for. The fourth line was better than most second lines in junior or minor pro. However, Sutter has been at the helm of the Rebels for a couple of years and has made them into one of the best teams in the WHL, although he's not having a very good season this year. But he's probably smart enough to know that what works with an undrafted 17-year-old isn't gonna work with a 27-year-old NHL veteran. That's what makes an good coach, period. Knowing how to motivate players and knowing what their capabilities are. If you had asked me before the tournament, and probably a lot of other people, Steve Downie never would have made that team, let alone been a key player on it. And yet, both he and Sutter got a gold medal around their necks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Was Scotty Bowman bilingual when he was coaching the Habs to all those Cups? And who was the last coach hired who didn't have a francophone name? Pat Burns? Yeah, he was a really poor choice. In fact, some would have to read his bio to know that Claude Julien was born in Ontario and not Quebec. I agree completely that the team has to be able to communicate with the francophone media, but that doesn't necessarily mean than you not consider candidates who may not happen to be perfectly bilingual, or who have no interest in learning to improve their French. Does Ted Nolan speak French? Are there guys coaching in the Ontario or Western Leagues who are bilingual? The American League? First off the Bowman example is not really relevant here. You're talking about an era where there was no Internet, no 24-hours News Channels (Quebec has 2, for just 7M people), no RDS, etc. Coaches back then only had to deal with a dozen of guys on the beat and that was the end of it. Beside, Bowman had been in the organization a long time before so he might had known some French. Anyway, I'll emphasize the point I made: its a requirement for the job. Like being able to answer the phone is a requirement to be a secretary. It comes with the job description. If you want to hire an Anglo, hire him in May and give him the summer to learn French. That will do. 4 month courses, its not that fricking hard. And if the coach is dumb enough to pass the chance of coaching the Habs because he needs to pick the language up, than he doesnt deserve the job in the first place. I will agree that coaching in a tournament setting is very different from coaching over a season. There are guys who played for Sutter who may not have been able to adapt to his style of play over a 70+ game season, but could do it over a two-week period with no problems. And as was said, there's more talent on that team than most club teams could ever wish for. The fourth line was better than most second lines in junior or minor pro. However, Sutter has been at the helm of the Rebels for a couple of years and has made them into one of the best teams in the WHL, although he's not having a very good season this year. But he's probably smart enough to know that what works with an undrafted 17-year-old isn't gonna work with a 27-year-old NHL veteran. That's what makes an good coach, period. Knowing how to motivate players and knowing what their capabilities are. If you had asked me before the tournament, and probably a lot of other people, Steve Downie never would have made that team, let alone been a key player on it. And yet, both he and Sutter got a gold medal around their necks. Check Julien's juniors record: a perennial contender in Hull (Gatineau) for years and a Memorial Cup victory - which to me means more than a WJC Gold Medal in terms of adversity - and add to that a bronze medal as the head coach at the WJC, and a pretty solid record in the AHL as well. So if track record really is the main criteria here, than CJ's resume seems longer and just as good if not better than Sutter's. Which brings me back to what I was saying about Sutter: its hype. Everyone's happy because Canada won the Gold and they like Sutter as a result. At the same time the Habs are having problems, so... 1+1=2. But it doesn't really look that serious and promising when you look closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Both Burns and Bowman are from Montreal and both speak some level of french. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 If you want to hire an Anglo, hire him in May and give him the summer to learn French. That will do. 4 month courses, its not that fricking hard. I took French from Grades 1 (?) to 10, and still don't know it very well. Maybe I'm just slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I took French from Grades 1 (?) to 10, and still don't know it very well. Maybe I'm just slow. Anyone really remembers anything they took in Grade 1 to 10? Heck, anyone even remembers what they learned last semester? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Check Julien's juniors record: a perennial contender in Hull (Gatineau) for years and a Memorial Cup victory - which to me means more than a WJC Gold Medal in terms of adversity - and add to that a bronze medal as the head coach at the WJC, and a pretty solid record in the AHL as well. So if track record really is the main criteria here, than CJ's resume seems longer and just as good if not better than Sutter's. Which brings me back to what I was saying about Sutter: its hype. Everyone's happy because Canada won the Gold and they like Sutter as a result. At the same time the Habs are having problems, so... 1+1=2. But it doesn't really look that serious and promising when you look closer. Just so there's no misunderstanding, I'm not saying that Julien should be fired and replaced by Sutter. But he has built a team from the bottom up in Red Deer, he's had some success in junior, and he'll be offered an NHL team this summer, in all likelihood. He's a very good coach, and if he ever decided to take an NHL job, I think he'd be very good at the helm of a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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