Way To Go Ribs!

[habschris]

I don't think it will matter too much how his stats compare to Koivu or other #2 centers. I don't think he'll be back next year.Ribiero is Not really a Gainey / Carbo type of player. The Habs will go after a top center, If they can't land one, Pleks can certainly fill his role then look for a tough third line center to possibly be added. (Peca like). Second line with no signings Kostitsyn Pleks Kovalev.

[option+]

option, interesting point as to Ribeiro's pt distribution. I would look at it a different way (and I do not know the answer) - How many of Ribeiro's come when the team is within 2 goals of the opposition? Now I imagine, due to the nature of hockey and particularly the recent history of the canadiens, almost all of everybody's points come in that scenario.

If Ribs' goals are coming in blowouts, then the win ratio point distribution argument loses merit.

Your wish is my command! (plus, I'm really bored - I have literally nothing to do today)

Ribeiro has 15 goals this year:

1 has come in the 1st period, with a tied score

1 has come in the 1st P, with the team +1

1 has come in the 2P, with a tied score

2 have come in the 2P, with the team -1.

2 have come in the 2P, with the team -2.

1 has come in the 3P, with a tied score.

2 have come in the 3P, with the team -1.

1 has come in the 3P, with the +1.

2 have come in the 3P, with the team -2.

1 has come in OT.

1 has come with the team +/- more than 2.

(7 of Ribs goals have come in the 3rd period or OT. Interesting.)

Ribs has 33 assists this year:

7 have come in the 1st period, with a tied score

5 have come in P1, with the team -1.

1 has come in P1, with the team -2.

1 has come in P2, with a tied score.

4 have come in P2, with the team -1.

1 has come in P2, with the team +1.

1 has come in P2,with the team +2.

3 have come in P2, with the team -2.

1 has come in P3, with a tied score.

4 have come in P3, with the team -1.

1 has come in P3, with the team +2.

1 has come in OT.

3 have come with the team +/- more than 2.

Looks like Ribs tends to get his assists early, and tends to score goals later in the game. He also seems to step up when the team is behind by 1 or two goals: he has 8 G and 17 A when the team is in situations like that.

Edited April 7, 2006 by option+

[CerebusClone]

I'm just wondering what you mean when you say about Ribeiro's points that "3/4 of that is made up of garbage points that mean very little". 9 of his 15 goals and 17 of his 33 assists have come in Habs wins; that suggests that Ribeiro producing in fact means a lot to this team. Don't get me wrong - Ribeiro often frustrates me as much as the next guy - but it's completely unfair to say that his his production means "very little."

Well, for example, Ribeiro had a nice 3-point game last night. However, that came after several games of generating very few opportunities in the offensive zone. As an example, I would rather have a guy that scores 1 goal every night, then a guy a score 5 every 4 games. Yes, the second guy has more goals in total at the end of the season, but the first guy contributes more regularly to the team's sucess.

Also, although he did give a constant effort last night, there are other nights where he got 2, 3, or 4 points in which he actually played quite badly. Sometimes he's lucky, and the other team doesn't capitalize on his mistakes - so he played great on paper - but in fact, with a little less luck, sone of these games could have gone badly.

It could be just me, but I feel that although he gets a point here and there, his overall contribution to the team is quite limited. But motsly, I just hate his lack of consistency.

[Makh2o]

Let us not forget that Redden, Chara, Phillips, and Volchenkov were injured...he was walking in on, and undressing AHL caliber dmen.....we should expect nothing less than his performance against Ottawa in a situation like this.

In all honesty, he has some of the best natural talent that I've seen....I'm not that old....but he needs to add a good 10-15 pounds of muscle to be able to truly compete in the NHL...

[CerebusClone]

Koivu gets far more PP time. He also gets the majority of 5-3 time.

[...]

i find the Ribs hate a bunch of BS. Is he a number one center? No, and we are not paying him for that.

By the way, Kovalev's production picked up after he was moved to play with Ribs. But apparently, you only give Koivu credit for Higgins. Perhaps Koivu's assists have more to do with playing with two hot wingers (Ryder and Higgins).

By the way, Ribeiro has had more PP ice time than Koivu in 4 of the last 7 games. Also, if I give Koivu the credit for Higgins' and Ryder's increased production is because when you look these 2 guys play, you can easily see how Koivu is controlling the play in the offensive zone. He generates a lot of opportunities for his wingers, although Ryder is still missing a lot of them. He could have easily scored 2-3 goals last night, each time after a very good play by Koivu. Even Higgins said that he gives all the credit to Koivu for his current production, and that it's so easy to play with Koivu.

As for Kovalev, I find that most of his production comes from individual efforts, regarless of who his center is. Whether it was Koivu, Ribeiro, Bulis, or even Begin (for one game), Kovalev has tried to do everything by himself all season long, and even last night, I saw a few turnovers caused by his selfishness. Kovalev is only productive when Kovalev puts a little effort into it.

But I didn't want this to turn into a Koivu VS Ribeiro discussion; whether Koivu plays well or not, and whether Ribeiro is a number 2 center or not, has nothing to do with Ribeiro's lack of consistency, passion, and his weak overall game. Looking just at statistics, sure, Ribeiro is a decent number 2 center, but when you watch him play, and take everything in consideration, I find that he's sub-par top 6 forward; good enough for a talent-starving team like Montreal has been over the last few years, but if we want to contend, I think we'll need better. I could be wrong, and I hope he proves me wring in the playoffs, but right now, that's my opinion.

Edited April 7, 2006 by CerebusClone

[shortcat1]

Very good night for him. Maybe he's showing what he's really capable of. Maybe he's showing (due to put up or get out of the CH uniform) that he can be consistent in this kind of effort. I hope so for his sake.

:king: :hlogo: :king:

[PB]

We all know Ribeiro has is own set of skills and limitations....just like any players do,....but lets face it,..

natural talent will always illicit irrationnal critisms from the stiffs of this world and I for myself

will always prefer a Mozart over the skewed and flat critisms he might have generated

from Salieri in his days, ( Amadeus ).

Lets enjoy him while he is with us.

[brobin]

We all know Ribeiro has is own set of skills and limitations....just like any players do,....but lets face it,..

natural talent will always illicit irrationnal critisms from the stiffs of this world and I for myself

will always prefer a Mozart over the skewed and flat critisms he might have generated

from Salieri in his days, ( Amadeus ).

Lets enjoy him while he is with us.

Well said. Ribs has natural talent, and that is hard to come by. I have found his line generating consistent offense in the last 10 games, they just don't all go in. However, the last 30 games Ribs game has improved and I credit Gainey. People like to talk about gainey type players, but it is obvious that Gainey is putting effort into improving Ribs overall game (he has been a plus player over that stretch) and seems more interested in him then Bulis.

Perhaps Gainey likes guys with talent who have a capacity to learn and improve. I certainly don't discount the possibillity that he can make Ribs worth hanging on to....

[simonus]

Your wish is my command! (plus, I'm really bored - I have literally nothing to do today)

Ribeiro has 15 goals this year:

1 has come in the 1st period, with a tied score

1 has come in the 1st P, with the team +1

1 has come in the 2P, with a tied score

2 have come in the 2P, with the team -1.

2 have come in the 2P, with the team -2.

1 has come in the 3P, with a tied score.

2 have come in the 3P, with the team -1.

1 has come in the 3P, with the +1.

2 have come in the 3P, with the team -2.

1 has come in OT.

1 has come with the team +/- more than 2.

(7 of Ribs goals have come in the 3rd period or OT. Interesting.)

Ribs has 33 assists this year:

7 have come in the 1st period, with a tied score

5 have come in P1, with the team -1.

1 has come in P1, with the team -2.

1 has come in P2, with a tied score.

4 have come in P2, with the team -1.

1 has come in P2, with the team +1.

1 has come in P2,with the team +2.

3 have come in P2, with the team -2.

1 has come in P3, with a tied score.

4 have come in P3, with the team -1.

1 has come in P3, with the team +2.

1 has come in OT.

3 have come with the team +/- more than 2.

Looks like Ribs tends to get his assists early, and tends to score goals later in the game. He also seems to step up when the team is behind by 1 or two goals: he has 8 G and 17 A when the team is in situations like that.

very interesting, did you go through and calc that manually, or do you use some sort of database?

If the latter, I'd be very interested in you data acquisition method. Do you have some sort of parser?

I'd be very interested in building some sort of higher level offensive metrics, like proportional weighting system. For instance maybe like 1.33 pts for a goal, 1 pt for a 1st assist and .66 pts for a 2nd assist. Maybe .33 pts for a +1 and -.33 for a -1. Then maybe add in situational weighting like *.33 in close situations and *-.33 for non-leverage situations...

OK, I'm a bit in baseball mode right now.

[GoHabs2002]

Well said. Ribs has natural talent, and that is hard to come by. I have found his line generating consistent offense in the last 10 games, they just don't all go in. However, the last 30 games Ribs game has improved and I credit Gainey. People like to talk about gainey type players, but it is obvious that Gainey is putting effort into improving Ribs overall game (he has been a plus player over that stretch) and seems more interested in him then Bulis.

Perhaps Gainey likes guys with talent who have a capacity to learn and improve. I certainly don't discount the possibillity that he can make Ribs worth hanging on to....

I really believe Gainey and the rest of the staff are really big on players who want to wear the jersey, players who are proud to play for the Habs. Currently on the roster, probably no one wants that as badly as Ribeiro. He plays at home, has started a young family and he enjoys the media, the fans and the fact that its his hometown team.

That is why, I believe, Gainey has shown more patience, more willingness to work with Ribs (by giving him Kovy to play with, etc.) because Gainey knows that if Ribs can improve his overall play, then they have a player that can develop into a well-rounded leader guy..if nurtured the appropriate way.

Two teams gave up on Marc Savard, paired with the right guy, he's a regular 80-pt guy with the Thrashers now. Montreal traded LeClair, paired with the right guy and team, he was a regular 30+/40 goal guy before his back flaired up seriously. Montreal front office and most of the media/fans didn't believe in Damphousse's talent anymore, but he produced 50+pts/20 goals for Sharks for 4-5 more years. Can I also include Martin St.Louis in this category?

Gainey and the Habs have shown a willingness to let Ribs develop or at least give him the opportunity to develop as a player and person with this team.

I would say Gainey has three objectives as of right now for this team in the summer:

1- Sign Huet

2- Bring in a top 4 winger (Bert., Shanny, Arnott (RW, center for face-offs), etc)

3 - Bring in a top 4 d-man

I think they would be prepared ot come in with Koivu and Ribs as 1-2 again if there is no easy upgrades over Ribs. Richards won't be available this summer, if at all. Maybe in 07 we can sign Sundin

[kaos]

I really believe Gainey and the rest of the staff are really big on players who want to wear the jersey, players who are proud to play for the Habs. Currently on the roster, probably no one wants that as badly as Ribeiro. He plays at home, has started a young family and he enjoys the media, the fans and the fact that its his hometown team.

That is why, I believe, Gainey has shown more patience, more willingness to work with Ribs (by giving him Kovy to play with, etc.) because Gainey knows that if Ribs can improve his overall play, then they have a player that can develop into a well-rounded leader guy..if nurtured the appropriate way.

Two teams gave up on Marc Savard, paired with the right guy, he's a regular 80-pt guy with the Thrashers now. Montreal traded LeClair, paired with the right guy and team, he was a regular 30+/40 goal guy before his back flaired up seriously. Montreal front office and most of the media/fans didn't believe in Damphousse's talent anymore, but he produced 50+pts/20 goals for Sharks for 4-5 more years. Can I also include Martin St.Louis in this category?

Gainey and the Habs have shown a willingness to let Ribs develop or at least give him the opportunity to develop as a player and person with this team.

I would say Gainey has three objectives as of right now for this team in the summer:

1- Sign Huet

2- Bring in a top 4 winger (Bert., Shanny, Arnott (RW, center for face-offs), etc)

3 - Bring in a top 4 d-man

I think they would be prepared ot come in with Koivu and Ribs as 1-2 again if there is no easy upgrades over Ribs. Richards won't be available this summer, if at all. Maybe in 07 we can sign Sundin

Montreal definitly needs a top forward and a top four defensman would be excellent as well.

The Top four defensman is definitley acheiveable, but the forward probably isn't. Montreal needs a #1 center who can score 100pts, or a 50 goal scoring winger. They haven't had either of these since the late '80's. This isn't going to happen. That type of player will not be available. Look at this game tonight. They fired what??? 15 Shots or so a Brodeur in the first and couldn't put one by him. They need a consistent scoring threat. Not Ryder one night, Kovalev the next and Ribeiro once ever 10 games, that shit doesn't cut it anymore.

As for Sundin, why the hell would you want him in '07 when he'll be like 38 or so? No Thanks