It's Still English For Quebec Immigrants

[Pierre the Great]

It's still English for Quebec immigrants

Despite language laws, learning French shunned

Government hopes to boost French among new arrivals

May 27, 2006. 01:00 AM

SEAN GORDON

QUEBEC BUREAU CHIEF

MONTREAL—The phenomenon has perplexed demographers for decades, and now the Quebec government is sending people into the field to finally solve the riddle of why more immigrants aren't learning French.

For the first time, the Conseil supérieur de la langue française (CSLF) is making the rounds of the province's immigrant communities to better target the government's policy of teaching French to new arrivals.

The Conseil supérieur is the top-level policy arm of Quebec's language bureaucracy and advises the government on steps that need to be taken to protect French. The better-known Office de la langue française and the Commission de la protection de la langue française enforce the provincial language law.

Despite significant progress since the enactment of language laws in the 1970s, statistics show roughly twice as many immigrants have gravitated toward English rather than to French — a process tied to what is known as language transfer.

And despite intensive efforts aimed at francisation, roughly four in 10 immigrants still don't end up following government-sponsored French courses.

There are myriad theories as to why that is, but they mostly rely on anecdotal evidence, something the CSLF would like to change.

"We want to analyze the way we offer courses and to see in what measure we are addressing the needs. We want to look at the situation and see where the problems are.... It would be useful and important to go and see what's happening," says Pierre Georgeault, the agency's director of research.

"For some immigrants, the integration has gone quite well, for others, there has been more difficulty."

And so the organization has hired researchers to go and meet community leaders to sound them out on a variety of questions. Their report is due in the fall.

Provincial statistics show that Quebec opens its doors to roughly 45,000 immigrants annually, compared to a national total of more than 260,000.

Representatives from several minority groups contacted by the Toronto Star greeted news of the effort with bemusement and, in some cases, suspicion.

In the decades since the implementation of Bill 101, the province's language law, some groups have felt unfairly targeted by inspectors who visit employers to make sure business is done in French.

Despite the close attention, many immigrants say they can live without speaking the majority language, largely because they interact with members of their own community first and foremost.

"We adapt, we get by. People are flourishing in their businesses. I can tell you of a photographer, or someone who works for Asian Television Network, we can get along fairly easily without speaking French," says Naeem Bhatty, executive director of the Pakistani Association of Quebec, which says it represents the province's roughly 20,000 Pakistani Canadians.

Bhatty's experience illustrates several facets of what the Quebec government considers a persistent and vexing problem.

He immigrated to Montreal 30 years ago and even today speaks limited French, even though his wife and children have learned to speak it fluently. Bhatty's older brother, who married a francophone, speaks French at home, even if the brothers communicate either in Urdu or in English.

And Bhatty's son, who is studying commerce at McGill University — where the language of instruction is English — isn't closing the door to moving to English Canada after graduation.

"He has a friend, a schoolmate who went to school in French with him and who says `I don't use my French, I'm moving to Alberta,'" Bhatty says.

Speak to leaders of the Chinese, Indian and Filipino communities — which are among the province's largest minority groups — and the story is much the same: Whereas second-generation immigrants subjected to the schooling requirements of Bill 101 typically learn French, their parents often don't.

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`We adapt, we get by. People are flourishing in their businesses'

Naeem Bhatty, who speaks limited French

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But the Quebec government has also focused more clearly in recent years on attracting immigrants from French-speaking countries in Europe, Africa and the Caribbean.

Government officials say that shift is thwarting the historical "language transfer" toward English among immigrants whose mother tongue is neither English nor French.

However, figures compiled by noted University of Ottawa mathematician and demographer Charles Castonguay — who has done extensive research at the provincial government's behest — show that despite the progress, more immigrants learn English than French.

The statistics show substantial gains for French since 1991, but Castonguay argues the resurgence is due to changes in methodology and is "largely artificial."

Despite the presence of Bill 101 and other measures, English remains the more popular second language among immigrants in both percentage and real terms.

"The substitution of English in place of French and the substitution of French in favour of English most often end up favouring English," Castonguay says in a 2005 report prepared for the government.

Georgeault agrees with Castonguay's analysis — but only to a point.

He says there's a generational component to immigration, and that the large migrations from places like Italy, Greece and South Asia in the 1950s, '60s and '70s have tapered off in favour of arrivals from countries like Vietnam and other Francophonie members.

In the former case, as many as 80 per cent took English as their second language; in the latter, 75 per cent use French.

"Whereas the proportion of French to English speakers among immigrants used to be 20 per cent/80 per cent, now it is 46 per cent/54 per cent. And that is a separate issue from the language of work, which is overwhelmingly French in Quebec," Georgeault says.

The question of language transfer and francisation are prickly topics in Quebec, and are a flashpoint, especially among nationalist politicians.

Some members of the Parti Québécois pushed the former PQ government to forbid the children of immigrants to attend English-language schools, even at the junior college level, a proposal that was ultimately shelved.

Language is never far from the surface in PQ debates, and party officials privately muse that plans to further tighten some language requirements could benefit the party in the next provincial election, expected next year.

Quebec law stipulates that any company with more than 50 employees must obtain a francisation certificate and undertake to help its workers learn French, but a majority of businesses in the province — and most of the stereotypically immigrant businesses like restaurants and corner stores — have only a handful of workers and are exempt.

To meet the legal requirement, the government offers a complicated patchwork of language training.

Some is arranged in public schools and colleges by the provincial immigration department, other courses are funded through the Conseil, still others are given in private schools.

To further complicate matters, the vast majority of immigrants to Quebec settle in Montreal — the official figure hovers around 80 per cent — and there is a healthy percentage of those people who relocate to English-speaking Canada within five years.

The provincial Liberals, who enjoy broad support among allophones in the province, are keenly sensitive to issues affecting immigrants.

To that end, the government recently announced a series of policies aimed at making it easier for immigrants to transfer their professional qualifications — a plan that even won grudging plaudits this week from former PQ premier Bernard Landry.

He said immigrants will play a key role in attenuating the effects of Quebec's rapidly aging population, and that "it's about time" more foreign credentials were recognized.

[shortcat1]

I have no problem with encouraging 'immigrants' to learn French in Québec. Also, I don't have problems with the mandating of children of immigrants going to French language schools. The presence of the French language community in North America is worth preserving - not preserving at all costs - but preserving in a constructive, positive manner.

:king: :hlogo: :king:

[Pierre the Great]

Hey we actually agree on something (I think). In Quebec I think if you want to speak english and you are an immigrant speak english BUT you have got to learn the offical language french and use it in public when needed.

For example if I move to Montreal I will take the french classes given out by the government. Not that I'm going to speak french in the home (I wouldn't) but I would have to speak french in public thats a must.

[shortcat1]

Hey we actually agree on something (I think) . In Quebec I think if you want to speak english and you are an immigrant speak english BUT you have got to learn the offical language french and use it in public when needed.

For example if I move to Montreal I will take the french classes given out by the government. Not that I'm going to speak french in the home (I wouldn't) but I would have to speak french in public thats a must.

I'm certain we agree on more than we realize. We agree with the foundational truth of the universe... habliness is next to godliness.

but, again, what's with the young Tommy Douglas pic? :?- :?- :?-

:king: :hlogo: :king:

[Pierre the Great]

I don't get your fascination. lol.

[Pierre the Great]

Changed it to Sir Wilfrid Laurier.

[MAK]

I've always been fascinated by languages. I understand that speaking english will get almost everywhere I want. but being able to speak the country's language would help me to get to know more about it's culture and it's people.

as of now, I only know french and english. I have understanding of spanish. I have few buddies at work who speak polish or turkish so I always ask them to teach them some words the basics: how to speak to an attractive woman.

as for the fact that some immigrants feel more confortable speaking english in quebec( montreal). I understand that english is an easier language to learn( don't mean to insult anybody here) than french but I wish that the french courses would be more availble to immigrants than it they already are...I know there's alot of work that needs to be done by our government.

[fromage]

French is not a language. It has more exceptions than rules. j/k

But it is a pain in the ass to learn.

Edited May 28, 2006 by fromage

[MAK]

French is not a language. It has more exceptions than rules. j/k

But it is a pain in the ass to learn.

lol

I even have a hard time explaining my own language to non-francophones

Edited May 29, 2006 by marky_and_komi

[fromage]

Also, french is almost completely useless outside of Quebec..

[Pierre the Great]

Also, french is almost completely useless outside of Quebec..

It wouldn't be if every province became bi-lingual and french was taught like math and science in schools through k-12.

[KoZed]

Also, french is almost completely useless outside of Quebec..

Not if you want to score...

[jetsniper]

It wouldn't be if every province became bi-lingual and french was taught like math and science in schools through k-12.

Haha, I'd like to see someone try and start that up in Alberta. It's mandatory up to grade 9 and then its optional in high school.

[Pierre the Great]

Haha, I'd like to see someone try and start that up in Alberta. It's mandatory up to grade 9 and then its optional in high school.

Thats why legislation like that would have to come from Ottawa. Provincial governments aren't going to go there.

[jetsniper]

Municipal, provincial or federal it doesn't really matter. I'd find the uproar in Alberta to be hilarious.

[fromage]

It wouldn't be if every province became bi-lingual and french was taught like math and science in schools through k-12.

But then everyone already knows English, so what does it matter?

[Pierre the Great]

But then everyone already knows English, so what does it matter?

I mean treat it like a subject. Every person in a bi-lingual country should be able to speak both of its languages. So in Quebec you would have your regular classes literature, math, science, history and add english to that.

Rest of Canada do the same with french.

Result would mean more understanding of cultures and less of this alienation crap that keeps coming up during election times. This would also mean the end of translators.

There already is a country that is truely bi and even in some places tri-lingual and thats Switzerland.

If provinces aren't going to become offically bi-lingual (like NB) (don't know why Ontario isn't offically bi-lingual). Then something to what I said above is an option.

[jetsniper]

It already is a subject in school, there just isn't enough interest outside of Quebec in French. People learn it in school and then pretty much forget about it as soon as they graduate. No one cares about it.

[Pierre the Great]

Another radical idea I thought of but I know would not pass because its too crazy is too have immigrants from non english speaking areas learn french first, (here's the kicker) anywhere in Canada. Therefore large french speaking groups will pop up in the western states. (Crazy idea but there are two offical languages not everybody has to speak english outside of Quebec)