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mathieu30

The Carey Price Thread

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Great for Price I just hope he breaks the curse now.

Edited by JMMR

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His Team Canada jersey is now at $2500.00..........so much for me even bidding on it...

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Congrat to Carey Price For to be named WJC MVP and Top Goalie.Can't wait too see him Habs jersey in couple years.

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Now it is going to be very difficult to sign Price. He (and Jack Johnson) are just a few months away from being able to go back into the draft pool. Their agents won't be in any hurry to get a deal done, and it will cost the teams an arm and a leg to sign the two at this point in time.

Bigger question with Price is not so much where he plays as a pro, but whether he will be able to backstop Team Canada in his backyard at the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver. I think he has a decent chance, and it would be a terrific story if he does.

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Now it is going to be very difficult to sign Price. He (and Jack Johnson) are just a few months away from being able to go back into the draft pool. Their agents won't be in any hurry to get a deal done, and it will cost the teams an arm and a leg to sign the two at this point in time.

Bigger question with Price is not so much where he plays as a pro, but whether he will be able to backstop Team Canada in his backyard at the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver. I think he has a decent chance, and it would be a terrific story if he does.

montreal will offer price the maximun contract possible so I don't think there will be any problem signing him.

as for the 2010 olympics, as long as brodeur will be playing, he'll be in nets.

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montreal will offer price the maximun contract possible so I don't think there will be any problem signing him.

as for the 2010 olympics, as long as brodeur will be playing, he'll be in nets.

Three years from now I think there is a very good chance that Carey Price will be on at least the same level as Brodeur. Probably Luongo would be his main competition. Perhaps Cam Ward or Marc-Andre Fleury.

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Based on accomplishments, I would say Carey is a lot better off listening to Kolzig than Melanson. Probably just as well off taking advice from his dad Jerry, who was a pro goalie before injuries ended his career. I can't see that Melanson would have that much to teach Price. Probably just confuse him more than anything.

Yeah man, I can't believe we have such a hack in Melanson. I mean geez, it's not like he's one of the best goalie coaches in the league... :rolleyes:

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Yeah man, I can't believe we have such a hack in Melanson. I mean geez, it's not like he's one of the best goalie coaches in the league... :rolleyes:

Yeah, he sure got Jose Theodore back on track in a hurry. Jocelyn Thibault as well. Olivier Michaud. Too bad that Tomas Vokoun, the guy drafted in the 15th round or something the year they took Theodore never got a chance to work with Melanson, he might have turned out to be a decent NHL goaltender if he had.

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Yeah, he sure got Jose Theodore back on track in a hurry. Jocelyn Thibault as well. Olivier Michaud. Too bad that Tomas Vokoun, the guy drafted in the 15th round or something the year they took Theodore never got a chance to work with Melanson, he might have turned out to be a decent NHL goaltender if he had.

I can't comment on Thibault, because I was 8 when the Habs got him, but Theo's downfall was a combination of two (or three) things: smaller pads and mental distractions (and arguably a weak will). Also, according to your logic of personal achievements making a good coach, then shouldn't Gretzky be the best coach in the league?

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Based on accomplishments, I would say Carey is a lot better off listening to Kolzig than Melanson. Probably just as well off taking advice from his dad Jerry, who was a pro goalie before injuries ended his career. I can't see that Melanson would have that much to teach Price. Probably just confuse him more than anything.

You are joking, right?

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Not joking at all. Rollie the Short Fat Goalie was nothing at all like Carey Price. He was an average prospect who never became an NHL star. From a totally different era. Olaf Kolzig is a big kid from western Canada who was a top draft pick and went on to become an NHL All Star. Still playing in the league. Obviously his advice is worth a lot more than Melanson's. As for his dad, who knows Carey better? Or loves him more? Once again, his father's advice is worth a lot more than some has been hanging around for a few more paycheques.

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I really can't understand the infatuation with Melanson as a coach. When he came to Montreal, they had 3 young goaltenders in the system. Jocelyn Thibault, who was All Everything as a junior and a top 10 draft pick, Jose Theodore who was the top CHL goaltender and WJC goalie, and Tomas Vokoun who was a 10th round afterthought. They let Vokoun go, and let Melanson work with Thibault first of all, then Theodore. Now, Vokoun is one of the top goaltenders in the league, Theoodore is considered a waste of money, and Thibault is a waste of space. The other guy he worked with extensively was Mathieu Garon, who also came in as the top goaltender in the CHL and a WJC star. Garon is just hanging on in the NHL on a team that is constantly looking to upgrade their goaltending. Hardly the Midas touch if you ask me.

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I really can't understand the infatuation with Melanson as a coach. When he came to Montreal, they had 3 young goaltenders in the system. Jocelyn Thibault, who was All Everything as a junior and a top 10 draft pick, Jose Theodore who was the top CHL goaltender and WJC goalie, and Tomas Vokoun who was a 10th round afterthought. They let Vokoun go, and let Melanson work with Thibault first of all, then Theodore. Now, Vokoun is one of the top goaltenders in the league, Theoodore is considered a waste of money, and Thibault is a waste of space. The other guy he worked with extensively was Mathieu Garon, who also came in as the top goaltender in the CHL and a WJC star. Garon is just hanging on in the NHL on a team that is constantly looking to upgrade their goaltending. Hardly the Midas touch if you ask me.

Vukoun was lost thanks to the realities of the expansion draft = no reflection on Melanson.

Thibault was a trade, and let's just say that Theodore managed to self-implode regardless/in spite of Melanson's coaching influence. And Garon was not destined to be the starter in Montreal, no matter what some might like to think?

So in short, none of these comparison's reflect on Melanson in any way, who in fact is held in high regards by the vast majority of the NHL hockey world. This is just not an opinion that is held strictly by Montreal fans.....

Edited by beliveau1

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Rollie the Short Fat Goalie was nothing at all like Carey Price. He was an average prospect who never became an NHL star. From a totally different era. Olaf Kolzig is a big kid from western Canada who was a top draft pick and went on to become an NHL All Star. Still playing in the league. Obviously his advice is worth a lot more than Melanson's.

Good theory. Willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Basically what you are saying is that a good pro goalie career is the number one requirement for becoming a good goalie coach. Interesting.

I am willing to buy that theory, but first, can you explain to me why François Allaire, David Marcoux, Jukka Ropponen, Benoit Allaire, Gilles Meloche, Mitch Korn, Roland Melanson,.. are getting so much respect and recognition throughout the entire league?

As for his dad, who knows Carey better? Or loves him more? Once again, his father's advice is worth a lot more than some has been hanging around for a few more paycheques.

So True. I don't know the Price family personally, I've never met them but his father probably wants the best for Carey. But that he shouldn't listen to someone just hanging around for a few more paycheques?..

Here you have a quote from a guy that fits that category:

What is most frustrating when working with a goalie?

François Allaire: I always have objectives for each player . When he underachieves and I know he could do better but we can’t get there for whatever reason, that’s really frustrating for me.

Na, François doesn't care..

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The worst case of Melanson not helping (and probably harming) a young goaltending prospect had to be Olivier Michaud. Michaud was amazing in juniors, top CHL goaltender, made the WJC team at 18, youngest goaltender ever to play for Montreal. Once he started to get "coached" he got progressively worse, and now he is out of hockey at the age of 23.

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Melanson is already one of the most respected goalie coaches in the NHL...in fact, he has been for years and (referring to comments from another thread) it's no secret around the league.

I can almost guarantee you that he could get more money from another team so he certainly isn't hanging around for a paycheque.

I have also heard that Kolzig is considered a good coach btw...

Pro status means NOTHING when it comes to being a good teacher. I'll assume that "Bobby", who made those comments, has never been to university and had an incredibly smart professor who couldn't teach his way out of a box. Or witnessed a very good employee get promoted to a management position and fail because they couldn't actually manage(ie. hire, train, motivate, coach, etc)...they were just efficient worker bees. Just because someone is good at a job, as an athlete or anywhere else, it doesn't mean you can teach/coach.

The ability to coach is not found in their careers as pro athletes...it's whether they have the ability to evaluate, coach, mentor, motivate, etc.

This should be obvious to someone with any ability for critical thought...

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The worst case of Melanson not helping (and probably harming) a young goaltending prospect had to be Olivier Michaud. Michaud was amazing in juniors, top CHL goaltender, made the WJC team at 18, youngest goaltender ever to play for Montreal. Once he started to get "coached" he got progressively worse, and now he is out of hockey at the age of 23.

Now you are telling jokes. Michaud was nothing close to amazing in juniors. Was it his .887 save % with Shawinigan or the .899 save % with Drakkar. Where do you get top CHL goaltender? He was so amazing that he went undrafted? He was such a top goalie that he wasn't even invited back to Team Canada for the summer camp after being the backup as an 18 year old. He was the youngest goalie to play for the Habs, those whole 18 minutes he played. Funny how he twice lost the starting job in the ECHL, but it's all Melanson's fault right.

I bet you many Shawinigan fans would not agree with Michaud being "amazing" in juniors. Funny I seem to recall a former poster around here and HF saying the same thing about Michaud.

Edited by montreal

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Melanson has been one of the league's better goalie coaches, and would have no problem landing a job. Allaire is pretty much a god, who was instrumental is totally reshaping the way goalies play the game.

Lots of goalies have been superstars in junior and haven't panned out in the NHL. The one thing I notice about Montreal is except for the Thibault disaster, we've had top-ten goaltending for most of the last twenty years. The fact that we had to pick between Vokoun and Theodore, who went on to win league MVP before falling apart mentally says maybe we know how to draft and develop goalies. The fact that we traded Garon, who's been better than Cleary in LA, for Huet, who's been AMAZING again seems to credit our ability to find and evaluate goaltending talent. So does the fact that we managed to get rid of Theodore for another quality goalie, if not a star. Who would even take Theo and his six million dollar salary off Colorado's hands now?

On an interesting note I heard an interview with F. Allaire last year, when Huet was playing great but everyone assumed it was just a hot streak. He said he'd had a bunch of goalies in a camp he was running in Europe years ago- Abby, Huet, Gerber, I forget who else but definitely those three and at least two other NHL starters. He said of all of them, Huet had the most natural ability but was, at that time, the furthest behind because of how late he'd left France to play in Switzerland and started his pro career seriously. When asked about Huet already being 30 he pointed out that Hacek only really took over as a number one starter in the league when he was almost thirty and has had a hall of fame career. He made no bones about saying Huet not only had what it took to make it as a top starter, but he felt there was no reason he couldn't have a solid career, because he had both the natural talent and the ability to improve under coaching.

But what do these coaches who've never been stars know about goalies or how to make them improve? Allaire clearly didn't know what he was talking about.

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Not joking at all. Rollie the Short Fat Goalie was nothing at all like Carey Price. He was an average prospect who never became an NHL star. From a totally different era. Olaf Kolzig is a big kid from western Canada who was a top draft pick and went on to become an NHL All Star. Still playing in the league. Obviously his advice is worth a lot more than Melanson's. As for his dad, who knows Carey better? Or loves him more? Once again, his father's advice is worth a lot more than some has been hanging around for a few more paycheques.

So by that logic, Francois Allaire's advice isn't worth a damn because he never played in the NHL.

<_<

Obviously, the subtleties of goalie coaching are lost on you. Or maybe you just have a soft spot for Kolzig because you're from Western Canada too.

I bet you many Shawinigan fans would not agree with Michaud being "amazing" in juniors. Funny I seem to recall a former poster around here and HF saying the same thing about Michaud.

:D I thought the same. And that former poster was from B.C. too...

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Anyhow... looking at Price I get flashbacks of Mathieu Garon at the same age. Same built, same stance. Price will have to avoid one of Garon's technical downfall which was to crouch too much when he goes down, instead of keeping his upper body straight. At 6'3" Price could cover a lot of space. He should go to some Nucks games and watch Luongo, the perfect technical blueprint for big butterfly goalies.

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I really can't understand the infatuation with Melanson as a coach. When he came to Montreal, they had 3 young goaltenders in the system. Jocelyn Thibault, who was All Everything as a junior and a top 10 draft pick, Jose Theodore who was the top CHL goaltender and WJC goalie, and Tomas Vokoun who was a 10th round afterthought. They let Vokoun go, and let Melanson work with Thibault first of all, then Theodore. Now, Vokoun is one of the top goaltenders in the league, Theoodore is considered a waste of money, and Thibault is a waste of space. The other guy he worked with extensively was Mathieu Garon, who also came in as the top goaltender in the CHL and a WJC star. Garon is just hanging on in the NHL on a team that is constantly looking to upgrade their goaltending. Hardly the Midas touch if you ask me.

... and yet when we traded Garon, somehow we got a very satisfying return - which at the time most people thought was too little! Garon went from being a nobody to suddenly a goalie with value under Melanson. And now what's happened to him? Back in the tank. Perhaps Melanson wasn't all that bad an influence.

And as for Theo, the undersized, over-egoed dweeb? He was nothing until Melanson got him to be positionally aware with the ability to control his rebounds. When his off-ice nonsense started wreaking havok with his on-ice performance, even Allaire himself would have been hard-pressed to keep the twit from allowing a beach ball in the net.

You talk about all these 'facts' as if they're proven and the rest of the people here have no intelligence whatsoever, and yet Montreal retains Melanson, keeps giving him contracts, and consistently has better-than-average goaltending (barring Theo's nightmares). Perhaps, rather than saying you alone are right and the rest of the world is wrong, there might be another side to the story?

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Point is that Kolzig is the same type of goaltender as Price. From the same area, and not that far from him in age. The fact that he was a much better NHL goaltender than Melanson is secondary, but not without some merit. Whose advice is worth more do you think, advice coming from Guy Carbonneau and Bob Gainey, or advice coming from Claude Julien, Michel Therrien, or Alain Vigneault? I'd take the advice of the people who have excelled at the highest levels first and foremost.

As for Michaud, he was the top goalie in the Q the year before Melanson got his hands on him. Better career numbers there than Pascal Leclaire who was playing at the same time. Selected to Team Canada for the WJC as an 18 year old. Not exactly chopped liver. Plus he was brilliant in his lone NHL game. No good reason that he should have slipped into mediocrity over the space of 5 years.

If you guys want to be blind homer dickheads go ahead. But the facts don't support your leaps of faith in the least.

Mathieu Garon was the top goalie in the Q as well. Maybe in the CHL. He played for Team Canada at the WJC as well. To say that he was "nothing until Melanson got ahold of him" is sheer crap.

Edited by KoZed

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Point is that Kolzig is the same type of goaltender as Price. From the same area, and not that far from him in age. The fact that he was a much better NHL goaltender than Melanson is secondary, but not without some merit. Whose advice is worth more do you think, advice coming from Guy Carbonneau and Bob Gainey, or advice coming from Claude Julien, Michel Therrien, or Alain Vigneault? I'd take the advice of the people who have excelled at the highest levels first and foremost.

As for Michaud, he was the top goalie in the Q the year before Melanson got his hands on him. Better career numbers there than Pascal Leclaire who was playing at the same time. Selected to Team Canada for the WJC as an 18 year old. Not exactly chopped liver. Plus he was brilliant in his lone NHL game. No good reason that he should have slipped into mediocrity over the space of 5 years.

If you guys want to be blind homer dickheads go ahead. But the facts don't support your leaps of faith in the least.

Mathieu Garon was the top goalie in the Q as well. Maybe in the CHL. He played for Team Canada at the WJC as well. To say that he was "nothing until Melanson got ahold of him" is sheer crap.

Let's just assume everything you say is correct for a moment, and I'm quite happy to do that, I'm not being tongue-in-cheek here.

Garon, though, was traded because the assumption was that Theo was going to continue to be the Habs goalie for a long time. No one gave up on him, so much as he was moved for a large centre and a supposed backup. He didn't degrade under Melanson's tutelage at all.

I guess the most telling point, however, is that you're touting the advice of Carbo and Gainey, and yet at the same time taking a back-handed diss at them regarding keeping Melanson around. Either of those well-respected individuals could have tossed Melanson out on his ear had they felt he wasn't up to snuff. The head coach always chooses his subordinates and the GM certainly gets rid of people who can't do the job. If you trust in those two in most respects, then why not trust in their judgement here? Obviously Melanson is doing a good enough job for two of the more respected NHL people; I don't think Melanson would be around if he didn't impress a guy like Gainey.

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