Zowpeb

Sorry guys but I've never agreed with a coach sending out his goons to attack another teams skilled players. Even the goons don't want to do that... While Drury is a nice all around player and their captain he's not even close to being their top skill guy and he's known for playing a grind it out game as much as he is for his clutch play. Ruff was wrong here and he deserved a major suspension not a piddly fine that's the equivalent of a speeding ticket to a big salary. IMHO Ruff deserved to be suspended for at least 5 games...maybe more. If you don't like Murray then that's fine...I don't think much of him either, BUT that's irrelevant to the situation. The fact is simple, Neil's hit was within the rules of the game and Ruff sent out his goons to go after a NUMBER of Ottawa's skilled players, not to mention having a tough guy take on a goalie. I don't care how tough Emery thinks he is on the ice, if I was Murray I would have sent my entire team over the boards rather then watch a tough guy fight my #1 goalie and my top skill players fighting Buffalo's goon squad. Now, I've read a number of these posts and I believe players need to police themselves too but this went beyond the codes of the game. Ruff is a moron...all he had to do was look at the bloody big screen above the ice and he'd see the hit was technically "clean". His ONLY response should have been to have his guys play as hard and have Peters go after Neil...the rest is BS.

Don't see why Peters would go after Emery...goalies fight goalies...that's the rule. Lindy Ruff is a bonafide IDIOT. He threw out every guy who could fight at once after that hit...he should be fined and suspended for that... The hit was clean, no elbow despite what Ruff was complaining. Lindy Ruff instigated this entire ordeal.

I think that's still an awful lot for a team to pay for Souray. Ryan was a #2 overall pick and was ranked ahead of Latendresse, by everyone(including the Habs) in the same draft year. They play a very similar style of game... Ask yourself: would you trade Latendresse, Perezhogin AND a pick(I'll say 3rd rounder to pick a middle tier) for 2 months of a player like Bryan McCabe?? Same deal as this rumour... Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a top 2 line with Latendresse on our LW and Ryan on our RW...that line would grind other teams into mush. Also, I think that this is a better deal then the Carle deal from SJ...I think you HAVE to take the best offer available. Acquire the best assets you can and fill the holes through free agency and other trades.

I wouldn't rush Price up with Halak and Danis in the system. Nor do I think the team should sign a goalie...I was just saying that IF Gainey wants a goalie then Biron is probably the best you could get right now...

How about Martin Biron...if it's a goalie they want. Would have to be conditional on an extension I suppose...but Gainey could send Aebischer as part of the package to Buffalo.

Hey, I agree that Bonk and Samsonov have little value. However, Sammy has had a good career and is relatively inexpensive and may garner some decent attention as a throw in when off-setting salary costs...and Bonk's value stems also from being an off-set to meet the salary cap in any deal, is expiring and he is still a decent 3rd line C too.

I don't think anyone would deny that this team needs to think long term. However, with so much young talent in the organization I think it's also a fair assesment to say that we could use some of that talent to acquire a legitimate big game threat...one that is locked up. In December I was advocating acquiring a rental but this teams ultimate collapse has admittedly changed my tune a little...but only in saying that we should acquire a guy who is signed longer then this year. With: Chipchura, Kostsytsin 1 and 2, Price, Halak, Danis, Latendresse, Plekanec, Higgins, Milroy, Fischer, Maxwell, Lapierre, Emelin, O'Byrne and Carle this team has LOADS of young players that project as NHL talent...many of them are NHL ready, or will be within the next 1.5 years. I'll even admit that only a few of them are blue chip guys but most project as 2nd to 3rd liners. How many prospects do you need??? This doesn't even include some of our veteran talent that we could move to acquire other veteran pieces that are signed beyond this season. Samsonov, Rivet, Souray, Bonk, Aebischer should all be dealt. Only dealing the d-men could hurt us this season if we didn't get any back in return...but with rumours like Sammy and Rivet for Aucoin it's possible to get better NOW and next year...and that wouldn't even cost us any of our "prized" youth. It's too easy for fans to get locked into the prospects. We need to concentrate on keeping our top 5-6 prospects. After that we have plenty of quality prospects that still project well and have value. I definitely think we can deal them with some of our veteran players, and/or UFA's to be, for a legitimate 1st or 2nd line C and a top 4 d-man. Then we only need 1 good signing and a little more development of prospects(Higgins, Plekanec, Kosty and Lats) to be a scary team next year.

Yeah, I don't see losing Souray as having too negative of an affect for the off-season marketing strategy. Honestly, nothing says they can't deal him AND try to sign him back in the off-season. At least that would show fans that they're trying to improve the organization overall. I would deal Souray for the best prospect and draft pick combination you can...regardless of prospect position. I'd deal Sammy, Rivet, possibly Ryder, Bonk and Aebischer... a Sammy, Rivet and Aebischer type deal for a d-man and some more draft pick(s). Ryder, Bonk and a prospect/pick for the best 2nd line C we can acquire who is signed beyond this season. Of course, you have to find the right trade partner...lol B)

The whole point is that Souray will not get you 2 of the best young D prospects in the game + a 1st round pick. It won't happen. San Jose would never EVER trade so much future for 2 months of a PP quarterback. And comparing Souray to Forsberg as far as value is just f'n dumb. Forsberg can lead a team to the finals...he's that good. Souray will put up some good points for a d-man, far more then his career average btw, and he'll cost his team some goals too. I can think of about 20 d-men I'd rather have then Souray. Off the top of my head: Niedermeyer Lidstrom Pronger Bouwmeester Chara Redden (yup, despite an off year) A. Markov Phaneuf T. Kaberle Zubov Whitney Chara Rafalski Ohlund Salo Visnovsky Weber Pitkanen Carle - lol Suter Gonchar That's 21...and it even includes one of the 2 prospects you want to trade Souray for...lmao.

Be careful of how you calculate the call-ups...their salary does not count against the cap in that manner if they are called up late in the season. If we don't resign Souray or Rivet(he is UFA isn't he??), then we need 2 more D-men. Plus I think we need to let Bonk walk, move Pleks to 3rd line C and sign a legit 2nd line C. We need a minimum of 3 signings, possibly 4. I think we have the depth to sign only 2 very good d-men and 1 very good C...average pay of 4.7 million each so that should be 3 high level guys. I think if we dealt Souray for the best available offer we might even get one of those potential off-season holes covered for less $$$ then that average and we could spend more on the other 2 FA's we'd need to fill out the roster with some talent.

Why in the blue blazes would they trade that for a couple months of Souray????? You wouldn't get Carle for Souray straight up...let alone Vlasik AND a 1st rounder... For the record I think we should deal Souray...and even try to resign him in the off-season if the cost makes sense. However, as is widely speculated, he's looking to move out west...and I think there is enough smoke around this rumour that there has to be a fire. The team needs to get something for him and while I think the market is good enough to get a good return I don't think Souray, as a UFA, will command much more then 1 prospect and/or a mid-tier prospect and a good draft pick. I know Philly wants the world for Foppa but Souray isn't even close to being in the same class of player, even for his position...

If you can get Horton you do it...the kid can be an 80+ point power forward...and he wouldn't hurt the future since he's still young. In all seriousness, I would trade Souray, Perezhogin, Grabovski, Milroy, D'Agostini, a 1st rounder, and a 1st rounder from next year, for Bouwmeester and Horton. Florida gets two potential top 2 line wingers who are young and cheap, plus the draft picks will net them some quality, and Souray comes off their cap at year end so they clear out some salary and remain flexible. Milroy and D'Agostini aren't real high ceiling guys but both could become 3rd line regulars within the next year or two...and also at a good pay scale for their market. I'd also deal Sammy and Rivet for Aucoin. Then in the off-season our D concerns are basically solved once we re-sign Markov. If Smoke can be included in the deal with us sending them Aebischer I do that too...otherwise I'd deal Aebischer for whatever draft pick we can get...hopefully a 2nd but a 3rd is probably realistic if I had to guess. Considering our depth in the minors we could even afford to upgrade one of Milroy or D'Agostini in that deal... How about this next year: Higgins - Koivu - Ryder Latendresse - Horton - Kovalev - This could be our top line... Plekanec - Smoke - Johnson - I think this could be a killer 3rd line btw... Bouwmeester - Markov Aucoin - Komisarek UFA - Streit/Boullion Huet Danis/Halak It would be nice to have one more scorer on our top two lines...maybe an upgrade on Ryder in a sign and trade(with yet another prospect) this off-season. And no, this STILL wouldn't gut our farm system...we are that deep. I think Gainey is great but considering the depth of our farm and the many valuable pieces we currently have we need to get serious and take some chances on deals. We have so much depth we're actually hurting ourselves not using the assets to make the big club better.

Overall it doesn't hurt the payroll too much since Sammy and Aucoin have similar salaries...it's a matter of where the money is better spent. On D or at F? Also, there aren't a lot of 44 point d-men in this league who also play solid D. Aucoin is better defensively then Souray and there are more then a few 40 point d-men making 4 million a year so I think that's probably about market value...only question is around his health IMHO. BTW, Aucoin had 44 points the year BEFORE the lock out and has struggled with injuries since it...the plus is that he's got just as much offensive upside as Souray IMO, the negatives are the injury woes. BTW, Souray never had 44 points until now and he's going to get more then 4 million a year...plus he's just as injury prone as Aucoin who is also better defensively. Now, to be honest, I like Souray more then Aucoin. But I don't think the payroll issue is a big deal in comparing them...especially when the money is shuffling from Samsonov's pay to Aucoin's pay. JMHO. Plus, I think Smolinski could be a nice acquisition...

Sportsnet is reporting that the Hawks are interested and may be offering Aucoin for Samsonov. Aucoin makes 4 million a year for the next 2 years. Sammy makes 3.75 million next year. I guess the theory is that Aucoin would mean we could be better set at D then in the future with both Markov and Souray UFA at season end. Also rumours swirling with the Hawks around Rivet, Aebischer and Smolinski. Perhaps we could clear up our goalie issue, shore up our long term D and acquire a good 2nd/3rd line C(Bonk is FA at year end too if I recall correctly)...all in one deal. In fact, I think we might even be able to get a draft pick in that type of deal...

He doesn't have the same line-mates as last year and he's still producing. Perhaps his line-mates are acheiving because of him... I think he's the real deal. Once he learns to play against the speed and size of the AHL and gets his defensive awareness down then he should be a force. A GREAT draft pick, especially considering his draft slot...

All that means is that teams don't think he's worth his current contract... It should also be an eye opener for Samsonov who seems to be blaming the organization more then his own poor performance. I could see a few teams being interested on his re-entry where his salary load is a lot less...

Guys I'd look at who could fit with this team: D Preissing Hannan Brewer Salo Note: Markov should be brought back...I'd let Souray and Rivet walk in favour of guys on this list. C Handzus Datsyuk(duh) - obviously he'll command huge $$$ so it's not likely Drury Peca - could replace Bonk nicely on our 3rd line... W Nagy - I always thought Nagy was a very underrated player. I'd let Bonk, Rivet, Souray, Niinimaa(he is UFA right?) all walk. I'd re-sign our RFA's. I'd deal Aebischer and Samsonov to clear additional salary room...replace Sammy with Nagy and Aebi with Danis. Dealing them at the deadline might even help us get a pending UFA, 2nd line C, for a playoff push THIS year...win/win move. So we'd have probably about 12-14 million to spend...sign Hannan, Preissing/Salo(Salo if the $$ allow), Handzus, Nagy.

Buffalo has more talent then the Habs...not by a huge margin but there is more there. They have similar skill sets overall up front and have got similar goaltending but Buffalo actually has some good puck moving d-men whereas the Habs have one guy(Markov) who can move the puck effectively. Someone mentioned using our speed better but it's awfully hard to do when the forwards are chasing pucks chipped along the boards into the neutral zone. A good puck moving d-man will pass to forwards in stride instead of making them dig it out of the neutral zone boards, or chase a puck dumped into a corner. The skill isn't being utilized because our D CAN'T exploite it often enough...

Yes, we have a great, fast, skating, core group of forwards. With many young prospects behind them with similar talents. However, we seriously lack in great skating D-men who can move the puck creatively. Only Markov really fits the bill. Souray is a great talent to have on D but he's a PP specialist with a cannon for a shot...but he's hardly a great skater and puck mover from his own end. Rivet...nope. Komisarek...not a great puck mover either. We are loaded with d-men who make the "safe, smart" choice. Which is fine by me since we don't have the talent, on the back end, to be as free wheeling as you seem to want. So, I'm not sure it's all about coaching... Further, I don't care if the Assistant Coaches hold responsibilities over the special teams...Carbo's signature is still there on both the PK and PP. Also, this team plays very good team D, which helps Huet's game and is classic Carbo. Don't gloss that over when you look at Huet's game.

Does anyone ever see news on when a tragedy strikes the front office personel of a team from outside their local region?????? It's pretty easy to see how this type of over-sight would occur. Chances are that most people in North America, outside of Quebec, did not know about the Gainey families loss. I live in Toronto and I saw only a couple of short, quick, news stories on it...and as a habs fan it caught my attention...but if you weren't a habs fan you probably tuned out, much like I usually do about any other teams stories.

I'm not suggesting we get a long term solution at C...I'm talking about a 6 month rental for the playoffs. We have enough prospects to trade 1 in a deal with, as per my example, Samsonov and Bonk for a quality C like Sundin/Foppa/whatever. That means we clear 4+ million off our cap next year, since those C's are UFA, so we can resign 2 of our 3 d-men UFA's...Niinimaa is due a big drop in pay and I wouldn't re-sign him anyhow. Plus, if we reallly wanted to fill some holes through trading prospects we have plenty of viable prospects to trade and we'd still have a stocked farm system to draw from. We could deal 4-5 prospects and still have lots of quality on our farm...IMHO. Just look at all the prospects you listed and thats not even including our goaltending depth(Halak, Price, Danis), our D-men(Carle, O'Byrne, Valentenko, Emelin, Fischer), our next draft(to re-stock who we deal) and some of our lower tier guys who still have some possibilities(Locke, Milroy, etc...). I realise that not all prospects pan out but thats EXACTLY why I trust our staff to deal some of them to fill a need now. We have a far better read on our prospects then any other team, combined with the fact that they often don't pan out and that we have so many, we might as well deal from our position of strength.

Which is exactly why we should trade one of our expendable prospects with some salary ballast for a very good C to play on our 1st or 2nd line.

I think Chipchura could be a very nice 2nd line centre if he continues to develop. He could be a nice 2 way, 65 point a year, 2nd line centre...and also has the intangibles to wear the C. I would certainly consider trading some of the farm for a legit 2nd year C this year though...even a half year rental. I would also consider trading Samsonov and Bonk to clear the salary room. Samsonov, Bonk and a prospect(one of Kosty, Grabovsky, Lapierre, Perezhogin, or a pick) for a very good C and a draft pick. Any team that makes that deal with us would be out of the hunt, still save some salary for next year with Bonk coming off, still have a nice, affordable, winger in Samsonov and have a very good prospect. We'd get a legit top 2 line C who will play with Kovalev, create some playing time for a young guy on their wing and a draft pick to help off-set the propsect/pick we deal. If you want to trade for NOW we need to create salary room. Who can we afford to lose that makes a lot of money? IMHO, Pleks can replace Bonk on the 3rd line without much loss on the defensive end and probably with better offense. Samsonov just isn't getting it done and his production can be replaced RIGHT NOW by one of Lats/Kosty/Grabovsky/Perezhogin. While that may not be great it WOULD mean a better offensive C beside Kovalev and the young player on the other wing would probably get added production too. I see no real downside to moving Samsonov and Bonk in a deal with a pick/prospect for a very good #2 C. Toronto, Philly may all be willing to move a guy that would make this worthwhile...I still would like to have Sundin or Foppa on our 2nd line, both are FA's at year end so we wouldn't be locked into them long-term and we could probably afford one of them without Sammy and Bonk on our cap. This would also allow us to have some room to sign our FA's at seasons end.

I'm not twisting words at all. You are saying that Theodore, Thibault and Michaud all "flamed" out under him. Without getting into a large argument about your implications, or semantics, it's pretty clear that you are indeed saying that he ruined their careers. Your hypothesis is clearly that a coach who played at a higher level would have made them into legit stars. I'm paraphrasing obviously, but this is basically what you've said, in almost every post in this thread.

Do you honestly think that all a coach does is "advise" players? There have been some very good NHL players who have crashed and burned as coaches...and there have been MANY excellent coaches who never played in the NHL. Hell, SCOTTY BOWMAN never played in the NHL...I guess no one would ever want his "advice"...but maybe they'd let him coach them. LOL There are plenty of great players who could give world class "advice" on the game but couldn't actually TEACH it. BIG DIFFERENCE. This is why your argument is baseless. You point to a number of goalies that Melanson supposedly ruined but the fact remains that many of them were highly touted goalies while they were under his tutelage and they did not truly slip into mediocrity until they left the coaching of Melanson after being traded. As for Michaud, I don't think he was ever a highly regarded prospect by ANY publication, scouting report or even most fans...so using him as a point of note is of no note at all.