Zowpeb

As much as I sympathize with guys playing in europe the NHLers there are not scabs...a scab is a guy who takes the job of someone who is on strike. Replacement players/workers are scabs...the NHLers playing in europe are taking advantage of the "free market" system in place in any industry. I don't see how one has anything to do with the other...comparing views of replacement players to NHLers taking job openings in europe is not actually comparable.

Yeah, he'd lead in scoring but there would be no 180-200 point seasons... I don't know that I'd say defenseman are tougher now then they used to be...in fact, I might say it's the opposite. They're bigger but they aren't any tougher. The fact that teams play the trap more now then they used to combined with all the clutching and grabbing the NHL allows to go on would severly hamper any skill player like Gretzky.

Dinamo, I know many of the stories behind the "fans". Both the Serbs and Croats have similar gangs roaming around who fought for their respective nations during the war. However, booing and being passionate is one thing. Hooliganism is one thing. What these guys do is something entirely different. I don't think you are looking closely enough at the issue...either that or you're turning a biased eye towards it. Violence against your own players is beyond hooliganism IMO. I have no doubt that these guys are incredibly passionate about their team...in fact, as in most football nations, they put Habs fans to shame in their passion for their teams. That is no slight to Habs fans, but football is even more an integral part of their culture. I have no doubt that these guys participate in hooliganism against opposing teams fans either. BUT attacking players, threatening violence against them or their families is something entirely different. Unfortunately those actions are tolerated too much by FIFA, the teams themselves, the players, security, police, gov't, etc... I've played football for 25 years, almost as soon as I could walk. I've been to europe to watch games. I know the sport, it's culture and how well it is ingrained in cultures. It's by far my favorite sport to play and watch(which isn't easy here...thank god for Fox SW and Sportsnet). I am even friends(and have played soccer) with a number of Croatians. I understand the culture and game there from their perspective. There is no excuse for violence against players, organizations or opposing teams fans. I understand why it happens but it doesn't make it right. These forms of violence are often even promoted by the organizations...THAT'S how much it's tolerated. There's a good book out called How Soccer Explains the World - An {Unlikely} theory of Globalization. Writen by Franklin Foer...it basically talks about how entrenched the game is in various countries/regions and how it affects/shapes various political/social causes. It's pretty good, I recommend it...

Fans in that part of europe are stupid crazy... The BBB are just a gang...and the fact that the organization, police, security guards, players, government and other fans tolerate them is ridiculous in the extreme. Sorry but it's true... I've got nothing against Dinamo as a team, or it's players, but obviously they weren't going to refuse handing over those jersey's because they would've gotten the crap kicked out of them and security WOULD NOT have done much. The fact that the organization and ownership turns a blind eye to these incidents and then proceeds to blame the owner just shows how screwed up the whole world is over there. IMHO.

Quite honestly, I think this is a pretty stupid idea for a show...JMHO

Don't sing it...bring it... Actually, I don't think we should allow Perreault fans in this league. This should be an automatic disqualification due to lack of taste...

Tough question... I don't think some of the older players, like Harvey, would fit into todays NHL very well. Even Richard and Beliveau would look completely different in today's game. I'm gonna say either Gainey or Robinson. Did ya all know that the Russians said they thought Gainey was the best all around player in the world, at the time of course, when they played us. Honourable mentions to Lafleur, Carboneau, Henri Richard, Dryden and Roy. If I had to assume that the older players could produce like they did then the Rocket, Beliveau, Harvey, Cournoyer and Mahovlich would all be considered...probably in that order.

Comparing professional sports to any other industry makes no sense. What other industry has employee's that are also the product? That simple fact means it operates on a completely different "playing field" to any other industry. The closest may be theatre and movie productions where actors are a major draw...but even that's not the same as the production itself is often as much or more of a show...whereas sports are a limited number of players on the field at once and single players put more fans in the seats(sell more merchandise, etc, etc) then a big actor in a shoddy production. The NBA's salary cap is tied to the league revenues...and it makes tonnes of sense. It basically forces the players, and their union, to realise that they are also partners in the business. They realise that they are the "product", that fans want to see them, but they don't want any of the responsibility of it. By setting the franchise max payrolls as a percentage of league revenue players then have a vested interest in how the league does. Personally, I like the way the NFL runs their league but there is no way the NHLPA would allow that set-up to happen. Players should be allowed to be released before contracts are up...they walk out on contracts all the time so owners should have the same ability with underacheivers. Yeah, cutting the roster sizes might not have a great effect on overall payroll because we're talking about guys making, generally speaking, about 1.2 million or less. However, I still believe that it helps overall for the other reasons stated. There are a number of pretty good 4th line players in the league that could steal some 3rd line jobs...so the added(or maybe I should say created) supply of players would act as a downward force on 2nd and 3rd line players as well. Top line players wouldn't see their pay drop at all and would likely even see it increase as a result of this...as their value gets even better. Also, I took a closer look at the "article" in the sun about the Habs being for a luxury tax and it just looks like the Sun was making a joke of the lockout...not serious...so while the Habs may be in favour of a luxury tax I wouldn't use that article in backing that point up. Sorry if I mislead anyone...

By next year the NHL can pretty much implement anything it wants...all it has to do is declare an impasse, then they can legally change anything they want in the CBA. As for teams folding...the NHLPA really has no say if a team just declares chapter 11. If they want enough of a say in how the NHL's business is run then they need to realise that they are indeed partners in the business like Bettman is saying and tie their pay scale to league revenues. They want their cake and eat it too...I hate the bloody players union. Again, most of what I've read from analysts is that the NHLPA wouldn't have a problem with teams folding(which is likely in a prolonged lock-out...) or roster sizes being cut back. I must admit that they seem to be all about protecting the higher paid veterans and don't seem to give a crap about the younger or lower paid players.

I don't see that the union could care less about contracting any teams or losing a chunk of it's members...especially the lower paid members. In fact, most analysts have said that they don't seem to care about losing members so long as there is no salary cap. BTW, an article in the Toronto Sun today says the Habs are one of the organizations that would apparently prefer a luxury tax then a hard cap.

I firmly believe that mental and physical fatigue will lead to breakdowns on the ice. Players will get caught out of position, chasing, pinching, playing out of their system, etc...sure they won't be all pretty goals but there would likely be more of them banged in around the net and as a result of turnovers.

I've read and heard some interesting comments from some analysts and former coaches about a possible fix to the NHL that could also impact salaries/payroll. I think it's pretty intriguing... The solution would be to lower roster sizes down to 17-18 men...basically, get rid of the 4th line. There are a number of results from this: 1) players will be more fatigued over the course of a game and season which will lead to more mistakes on the ice and therefore more goals. I believe Bowman came out and said he thinks the arrival of 4th lines and expanded rosters is as much to blame for increased defensive play and lack of scoring as anything. Fourth line grinders are defensive specialists and allow better players to stay fresher...even if it is for just 6-10 minutes a game, that's 6-10 minutes without defensive specialists on the ice, more skill play and more defensive lapses. 2) Less players on the team means payroll will likely drop. Simple economics would dictate that the large supply of available players would mean many salaries would fall...especially for 2nd and 3rd line players. Only the true superstars(only about 10 of them in the league really) could see any sort of real increase in pay IMO. 3) The AHL will get better...there may be competing leagues to the NHL created also. IMO, this will help to serve hockey's fanbase better. 4) If this occurs after a prolonged lock-out and happens in conjunction with about 3 teams folding and some sort of luxury tax/revenue sharing then the quality of play in the NHL would be WAAAYYY better. [Edited on 2004-12-29 by puck7x]

I couldn't disagree more about our defence Habs13. I think our defence needs some upgrades... I'm happy with: Komisarek - he's a scary talent Markov - loads of upside if he can put it all together he could be a consistent 45 point type d-man... Souray - I think many Habs fans will be disappointed in him next season. He is NOT going to put up 40 points a year regularily. But he's still a good all around d-man. Brisebois is okay but not for his pricetag. Same with Rivet. If we could get some upgrades over these 2 guys we wouldn't be increasing payroll by much, if at all, and we could be getting much better players. Puck, I said the 4th line is small just because 4th lines are usually tough, physical, high energy lines...while the players I had on it can be gritty and high energy they're not physical in the classical sense of what 4th line players are expected to be. No fighter type, none are all that big(in fact, Begin and Plekanec are on the small side IMO). [Edited on 2004/10/2 by Zowpeb]

This topic always gets people talking... Looking over our prospect depth charts and current players I think we can get a pretty good idea of what our line-up will be next year...here's my thoughts: Only using players we have the rights to... Zednik-Koivu-Perezhogin Higgins-Ribeiro-Ryder Bulis-Bonk-Sundstrom Begin-Plekanec-Ward Seeing as there won't be an NHL season, we're likely to see more rookies in the NHL when it resumes. The reasoning is that their development will be that much further along and some older players will be retiring...as well as they'll be cheaper which may come into play if/when there is some sort of cap in place. I believe those 3 rookies have earned their shot at the NHL... Potential problems are: 1) lack of experience - although many teams may have this issue depending on when the league resumes. 2) Lack of scoring punch on Bonk's wings... 3) How will Perezhogin return? Kovalev makes that line-up look much better but Zhog looked close to deserving a legit shot. 4) 4th line is a little soft/small... If Kovalev was signed he drops into Koivu's line and I'd move Perezhogin to Bonks line...dropping Sundstrom to the 4th with Plekanec and Begin. Not only that but Kostsitsyn would probably be more then ready within another year(2 years from today) meaning even more available scoring. Another possibilty is to trade some of our young talent for help on defense. Package up guys like Hossa, Plekanec with guys like Brisebois and Rivet for upgrades on defense. Using good prospects and picks with solid d-men means we'd, hopefully, be able to turn that into premier d-men. 2 premier d-men combined with Komi, Souray and Markov would mean a stellar defence corps. Anyone think this is feasible?? In fact, in 2 years we could see our top 3 lines looking something like this if we played our cards right and got some of these guys experience next year. Zednik-Koivu-Kovalev Kostsitsyn-Ribeiro-Perezhogin Higgins-Bonk-Ryder That is potentially a killer top 3 lines...soo much talent there. That type of forward group with the right deals made for our defence and Theodore in net and this could be a cup contender within 2 years time. Whaddaya all think? Too optimistic? Too soon for all the rooks? [Edited on 2004-12-29 by puck7x]

Considering Souray had 10 of his points against a horrible Pittsburgh team last year I won't get my hopes up on him... If he plays up to his physical potential and pots 30 points I'll be happy with him and not think he's overpaid. If he reverts back to his non-physical play and scores less then 25 points then he's overpaid. Quite frankly, I think we'll see him put up 20-25 points and he'll be inconsistent with his physical play and defence. Hope I'm wrong...

I agree to leave it as is... That's quite a nice gift assuming the signatures are real...and I'm assuming you can trust your boss that they are. Did he get the signatures? Those are 3 of the all time great Habs ever to play the game...I wouldn't even consider adding in current names. Not one of this bunch deserves to be on the same page as those 3...and I don't think any one of this bunch ever will deserve it.

I still don't understand why some people overrate Perreault to the extent they do...he has too many deficiencies in his game. Frankly, since I don't think we'll play this year and I think our prospects will continue to develop we'll see a pretty young team when the league resumes... Kostistsyn-Koivu-Kovalev Zednik-Ribeiro-Ryder Bulis-Bonk-Perezhogin/Sundstrom Higgins-Plekanec/Begin-Ward/Sundstrom I know it's not incredibly likely that we'll have 4 rookies in the line-up but they are 4 VERY talented rookies and I believe that the new salary cap will have teams scrambling to lower salaries which may mean more rookies in line-ups then normal. I do believe that Higgins and Kostsitsyn are better then most of the veterans that are available anyways. In a 4th line role Plekanec is more then capable and Perezhogin has shown that he's ready also. I think teams will need to evaluate on how they spend money and having some real good young talent with a few higher paid superstars(a la Kovalev, Theodore, Koivu) is the best way to run a team when payroll is a consideration.

Anyone want to take bets on how long it takes someone to get under Thornton's skin and he blows up in the World Cup tourny? :can: :can: :can: :can: :can: :can: :can: :can:

Quite frankly, Kirk Maltby has NO business being on this team. One of the dumbest things I've ever seen for a Team Canada that could have just about any Canadian player it wants. Smyth deserves to be in the line-up and I'd rather see him then Gagne on the Sakic line but I suppose Gagne had previous success with Sakic. Personally, if I was to tinker with Quinn's lines I'd like to see: Richards-Lemiuex-St.Louis - Can't argue with this line... Gagne-Thornton-Heatley - I don't like Marleau here and think Gagne may fit in better... Smyth-Sakic-Iginla - I think this would be the best line in the tourny. It has everything. Morrow-Draper-Doan - Morrow is a great checking LWer, Draper is solid although Marleau could slide in here depending on the opposition. Doan adds a bit of everything to the line. The only line I really don't like is the stupid checking line. Draper is marginal IMO and Maltby has no business here. I think Morrow is a 2 way LWer and Doan is a good 2 way RWer. I don't think Draper is the best checking center Canada has to offer...and I don' t know that we need that specific a role player. Yes, the team needs role players but it's not like we have a team of ego maniacs who would refuse a role. [Edited on 2004/8/24 by Zowpeb]

Simonus, I'd have no problem making 750000 a year while the company makes 8 million off of me. Hell, I make 90000 a year now and my company makes probably 600,000 off me. Am I pissed? No. I actually do think that the NHL has a responsibility to ensure that teams run their organizations properly. That is why there are CBA's...to limit the idiot GM's from running franchises into oblivion and, as a result, detracting from the game. The problem right now is that the current CBA doesn't do enough...the league needs a salary cap. The NFL and NBA both have them and both leagues are more successful then the MLB and NHL. Both of those leagues also have more parity, have shown that salary caps don't limit strong organizations from winning multiple championships and players are still multi-millionaires. Now, I do believe there are, at least 4 too many teams, but that's another thread on it's own. Having teams go bankrupt or contracted is not good for the sport, it hurts the overall fanbase, is bad PR for the NHL, etc. Don't get me wrong, I don't fault the players from signing, or bargaining for, the best deals they can get. I don't solely blame the players for this mess. Obviously, the GM's, owners, players, agents, union and even the fans have all played their part in this mess. Quite frankly, the league needs rules on the following: 1) No team should be allowed to lose money. 2) Revenue sharing or a salary cap should offer a greater balance for the benefit of the league, and therefore the product that the league supplies. 3) There should be no expansion teams considered for at least 20 years. 4) Better marketing needed. For example: there should be NO tv blackouts...in todays world it's easy for people to move and it makes supporting your team difficult. Technology is there to allow people to see the games but the NHL won't let them. Even the Center Ice packages are not effective...why should I pay to watch all these other games/teams I have no real interest in. Let me pay to subscribe to MY teams games only and I'll pay 1/3 of the Center Ice price for 1/15 of the games. The NHL has idiots running their marketing.

One major issue is that in professional sports the product is, in part, the players. The product AND employee are the same thing. I begrudge players earnings more then ownership making money...simply because I EXPECT people who own businesses to make money and not lose it. When players earn extravagant salaries and would still be considered very wealthy if they made 5 times less then obviously there are salary issues which have resulted in the need for this "cost certainty". I'm all for capitalism but professional sports leagues are very different then any other industry. Because of the product/employee issue as well as the fact that while independant franchises must compete the league as a whole must be successful. One franchise wants to squish the other teams on the ice but can't afford to have unsuccessful franchises in other cities. They are interdependant on each other. No other industries work in this manner so standard capitalism does not hold. As for players leaving successful teams...so be it. These players who have "upped their value" are probably no better then the year before and smart management will effectively replace them or have already signed these guys to staggared long term deals to limit player losses. The issue of player movement is a tough one. When a team drafts it's players it's obvious that they must retain some rights to that player while they are in the minors. It's rare that young players aren't paid in the NHL...it's usually in the teams best interest to sign them or trade them. I could see them becoming UFA's a year or two sooner but more then that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense from the perspective of why bother holding a draft otherwise...EVERY league has some form of restricted free agency and/or team rights to draft picks. Simonus, I dunno where you think they don't...the NFL, NBA and MLB all have these RFA type set-ups. I also agree with what Huzer said about signing contracts vs. full time employment. The jobs just not the same as everyone elses...honestly, if someone wants to pay me 750,000+++ a year then I'll let them dictate that I have to work for them for a minimum of 6 years. The players are just cry babies. They are overpaid millionaires who are expecting ownerships to LOSE money to pay them. The union thinks waaayyy too much of itself and in my opinion goes well beyond the entire point of what a union should be in the first place.

I don't believe you should put blue chip rookies on the 4th line where they won't develop as fast...Higgins will need his minutes...either let him play on the 1st line in Hamilton or the top 3 lines here. Getting 8 minutes a night for a rookie just isn't worth it unless they will only ever be a 3rd/4th liner anyhow. One rookie who could potetnially center the 4th line is Plekanec...I don't see the AHL really doing much more for his development even with the extra minutes. I agree with Bonk on the team Dowd isn't really needed. However, I still think we'll see Bonk getting some LW time with Koivu...

A friend of mine was working out, on ice, with Souray, Scott Walker, Tim Brent and a few other NHLers the other day...says Souray is a riot... I have some gossip but it's not fair to Souray for me to share 2nd hand info...

Well, I'd like to hear from Danis, Kostitsyn, Locke, Plekanec and Higgins...in no particular order...

I've got a Habs sweater signed by Maurice Richard, Henri Richard, Cournoyer. Probably my favourite. I would've liked to add Beliveau's and Lafleur's to the sweater...but probably won't happen. I've got some hockey cards, signed pucks and signed photo's as well. My hockey card collection covers mostly the few years before upper deck and their ilk got into the game. Brett Hull, Patrick Roy, Sakic, and those rookie years. Basically, 86-92... I haven't even looked at my collection of stuff in years...lol. [Edited on 2004/8/13 by Zowpeb]