The Chicoutimi Cucumber

It shouldn't be taken as gospel that players' numbers are bound to decline up coming to Montreal. This was partly true under JM's system (although not for Cole). But Cunneyworth is NOT JM. It's reasonable to budget Bourque for 25+ goals.

Yep.

If Subban is moved we had BETTER get monster value back. GRRRRRRRR. As for Pleks, he's a fine player, but not an 'unotuchable' player. Getzlaf/Desharnais/Eller is a significant step up on Plekanec/Desharnais/Eller, so in principle I could live with that.

huzer, you make an interesting point. If other GMs claim to be totally floored at the Habs moving Cammy, then you can argue that THEY weren't doing their jobs. Montreal has been in melt-down mode for months and anyone interested in Cammalleri should at least have made meaningful inquiries. It was obvious something was going to happen eventually. I remember one time when a player many fans and media coveted - I forget who, it might have been Kyle MacLaren - was traded and they asked Houle why he hadn't made an offer. His response was that he hadn't even known the guy was available. Everyone took that as proof of Houle's incompetence. So the same argument could be directed to the GMs now (apparently) expressing surprise. 12 hours later my view hasn't changed: should have gotten more, but what we did get isn't terrible, and the direction of the trade is exactly that which fans have been calling for: get bigger, free up cap space, stockpile picks and good young assets. Hard to be too enthused but a deal that will require patience and a longer-term view to fully assess. EDIT: excellent, way-above-the-norm analysis from Bob McKenzie: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=384950 This should be required reading for any fans when it comes to this trade.

Well, I'm calming down a little. We get a 25+ goal-scorer (presumably) with size and a desirable viciousness, a 2nd-round pick in a deep draft, the 9th overall scorer in the WHL, AND $3 million to play with annually. Yeah, we could gotten more, but the latter three elements *are* arguably the sorts of ingredients that characterize a 'retool for the future' kind of deal. In principle, and on reflection, this turns out to be exactly the sort of trade that most fans on this site have clamoured for all season: 'save cap space, get bigger, get young assets, move under-performing duds.' A sour response is, I think, still appropriate. But patience is also called for here as the full implications will take a while to unfold. Meanwhile, more is to come in terms of dumping bloated contracts - I hope.

Uh...you know we fired JM, right?

We may never know. I'll cling to the hope that they are at least minimally competent. Cammy will be back with Iginla in a city he wanted to remain in in the first place. The odds are good his production will spike.

Interesting link, thanks. I think the outrage is in a lower register, centering NOT on the players per se but rather the 2nd rounder and the cap hit. Like I say, if both players maintain their levels of production from the past two seasons ya gotta admit we ARE the winners in the trade. Not that I think it's a great trade.

I absolutely, 100% agree with you here. You HAVE to at least feel Kostitsyn out, see what he's looking for. It's almost as if the Habs under Gainey and Gauthier have been too lazy to bother with these sorts of things. Make serious inquiries to Wiz? Naaaah, too much trouble. Talk to Kosty's agent? Oh, it's long distance. Shop Halak or Cammy around trying to create a bidding war? Bah, it's almost dinner time, just make the deal already. That being said, we cannot assume Kosty is particularly interested in locking in. Provided PG does due diligence I have no problem with dealing him if he can't be signed.

So he made those comments. It doesn't follow that we HAD to trade him then and there. That's the sort of blinkered thinking that has hampered this franchise for decades - starting with that idiot Ronald Corey forcing Serge Savard to trade Chelios because of his dubious off-ice antics. A good organization is ruthless in maximizing its assets. You're right to cite Burke, who makes mistakes but at least doesn't piddle away major assets for irrelevant reasons. I won't cry if PG goes, but here's a thought: we won't really know what this deal amounts to until he spends the $3 mil he just saved. Something else to chew over.

A valid point of view. All I'm saying is that anyone who has taken this position (often vehemently and angrily) has absolutely zero right to jump up and down with rage if the Habs now deal Kostitsyn, in exactly the same scenario. Chris, Pleks will get better, and I know this because he has BEEN better for three of the past four years - vastly so. You're confusing aberration for norm.

Yeah, the last four months represent the only thing he has ever done or ever will do in the NHL. Apparently.

For chrissakes, Pleks is a quality player in all three zones; because he's having a bad season you want to throw him away for a pick. And what happens when the player you picked has a bad season? You trade HIM for a pick? AK46 is what he is, as I've said consistently. Good physical presence, gets hot and looks steller, blows cold and looks like Turner Stevenson. Not a player to want to lose, but not one to go cowabunga over either, and unless he can definitely be signed to a reasonable rate, he should be traded. Once again: you CAN'T bitch about the Habs for not trading impending UFAs like Souray, then whine if they trade Kostitsyn.

Habs, that is as ridiculous an over-valuation of Cammy as PG's deal was an under-evaluation. Let's not go nuts. The Cammy deal I was fantasizing about was one where he was packaged with a prospect like Weber + a pick for a major asset. No one's gonna give you a 27-goal scorer, Glencross AND their top pick (!) for cammy.

Holland...well, everyone was enraged at the Halak trade and PG surprised us. Who knows, maybe in a couple of years, Bourque has scored 25+ for us reliably and Holland is emerging as a real player, this trade looks great. Right now, it's what everyone thinks, a ridiculous under-selling of our most dangerous offensive player. That being said, I still think Bourque may prove to be a decent acquisition in both cap and hockey terms. And no, I don't trade Pleks for a pick.

If you are right, then suicide should be our preferred option because we're gonna suck for 10 more years, or however long this ding-dong owns the team.

Read this and prepare to be depressed: http://www.lfpress.c...3/18963881.html Basically, we moved Mike Cammalleri for a guy for which there was zero demand in November due to his 'motivational issues' and 'inconsistency.' While it's possible that Bourque will continue to score at a 30-goal pace and thus pleasantly surprise us, and his cap hit is nice, the fact remains: we should have gotten more. Habs29, I agree with you on the return (obviously). What I was pointing out was the inconsistency of bitching about bad contracts and then freaking out about this one, along with a few other inconsistencies among those in hysterics over this deal. In saying this, I'm ASSUMING Gomer in particular will be cleaned out by the time this is all over. As one part of a general commitment to straightening out our cap situation, this move makes SOME sense. As a stand-alone to save $3 mil, no thanks. Anyway - the issue is less Bourque per se, who I suspect will be decent, but the return.

100%. The only hope for a major re-tooling now comes via further moves that open up the cap space to snag a major UFA.

Not as bad as the Roy trade. But not good. I've been saying Cammy should be the centrpiece of a MAJOR package to make this team better. There goes our biggest chip.

God, this just gets worse and worse. If you're gonna move Cammy, who WILL generate interest, at least generate some sort of market for him. I understand the constant references to Roy, because this just reeks of a move made in reaction to events rather than a carefully thought-out hockey decision. Looking at the stats, though, Bourque can score - in fact his two consecutive 27-goal seasons surpass Cammy's output with us. He's the same age as Cammy and half the price. And he's bigger. IF Bourque can simply transpose his Calgary production to Montreal, then the trade actually makes some sense when you factor in the cap hit: Cammy's production at a fraction of the hit. Not only that but he IS francophone. What worries me is Habs29's comments about his softness and lack of character as well as the observation that 27 goals in Calgary is 17 in Montreal. While I think Habs29 is somewhat jaundiced in this respect, it's not reassuring. One thing, though. Amidst all the negativity about this deal, certain things are being forgotten: 1. If you want the Habs to shed salary and retool without completely tanking, this deal helps by opening up cap space. 2. If you are one of those who is constantly complaining about the Habs's bloated contracts, you should like this deal as it is NOT a bloated contract but, if anything, good value. 3. If you are one of those who whined about Cammy's limitations, you should be happy to unload him for (in theory) similar production at half the price and more size. Nor can you grumble that the return should have been higher; on your own estimation, Cammy was a rip-off one trick pony, right? As for me, there is no doubt in my mind we could have gotten more - possibly a LOT more - had we waited and established a market.

I hope you're right but every instinct tells me we are set for a total demolition. A team divided against itself gets its ass kicked.

If Cammy had just said the team isn't going out there with a will to win, and is instead playing on its heels all the time afraid to make a mistake and needs to man up - I've got no problem with that. The only issue is that he himself has been one of the massive underperformers all season, so his words would ring hollow. I also think legitimately hard-working guys like Price, Gorges, and Cole would be completely reasonable to take umbrage at his characterization that they 'prepare like losers.' But again, if he wants to say such things, that's fair ball. But he went further an indicted the coaches. This is what is grotesque, considering that HE bears some responsibility for getting Martin fired, that RC has already been put under ridiculous amounts of scrutiny and pressure, and that the coaches have been going with a 'reward performance' principle that is the opposite of a 'loser' mentality. Cammy has basically announced that he will only support a team/coach that plays exactly the system and style he personally prefers. The appropriate response is : f*ck off.

You mean they've already given up on Cunneyworth? Give me a break.

I like Cammy's game, partly because I have more patience than some for players who are somewhat one-dimensional. He's all offence, but that sounds good to me! Contractually, he is a complementary player being paid like a go-to guy. Indeed, he might be one of the very best complementary players in hockey when on his game. But it seems clear that he is not a guy who can be counted on to drive a team's offence. His critics were wrong to say he couldn't do anything without Iginla; they were right, though, that he cannot be 'the man' on a team. His job is to pot the opportunities created by others. If Cammy finishes the season here, it will show great patience on the part of the Montreal Canadiens. He has betrayed the organization and his teammates twice this season: first, by being a key figure in the overthrow of Martin which cost us the first half; and second, by throwing Martin's replacement and his teammates under the bus. Beyond that, he's an asset who can moved to get real value back. Teams know that this season is aberrant, and anyone who wants to add a proven gunner for the playoffs is going to be willing to pay. Here's a chance to acquire some significant elements for the future and/or re-jig what's clearly a pathological locker-room. Let's explore it seriously.

To beat the Bruins, the Habs need to play with the kind of determination, guts, and team commitment that we brought to the table against them all last season. Cammy's comments make that highly unlikely, because most of his teammates probably want to rip him a new one as much as they want to beat the Bruins. Get ready for a humiliation. Chris is right, 6-1 sounds about right.