The Chicoutimi Cucumber

I dunno, but if you ask me Detroit is a club that should, by rights, be very interested in a promising young goalie with claims to already being a legit #1. Not a rumour, just a thought. The Vancouver Canucks believe themselves to be Cup contenders. Luongo is the keystone to that. They are NOT going to deal away Luongo. Dumb rumour.

You make some good points here. For all our whining, there are promising signs among these 'depth' forwards. As you say, Pacioretty has definitely improved since the start of the season, showing flashes of genuine promise as a power forward, and Chipchura has gone from being a basket case to looking like a legitimate NHLer. Those are two players who had squat in the beginning, so this is a net improvement. As for Price, he's played fine for most starts this season. But there does seem to be something about the 'Big Save.' I don't see how we can insist that he's come up big at those points in the game when the team needs it most. Instead, he's gotten beaten at key times. It's a fine line, though, because he *has* played well and, on balance, probably better than Halak (especially in terms of rebound control and puck movement). Yet he seems more prone than Halak to surrender those psychologically deflating goals. He shouldn't be the scapegoat, but this, it seems to me, is the case for playing Halak quite a bit.

Actually, I clearly recall a period in which Markov's NHL future was in doubt. The Habs were insisting that he incorporate defence into his game, communication was a huge issue, he seemed frustrated and confused...it could have gone either way. 'Talent dripping off these guys...' How can anybody deny that Andrei Kostitsyn is a bona-fide big league talent is beyond me. He has the physical robustness, the lethal shot, the capacity to see the ice, the strength on his skates, pretty much all the tools. You're forgetting his rookie season. The issue is between his ears. As for Latendresse, it's harder to say. He is certainly a legitimate third-liner in the mode of Turner Stevenson (minus the fighting) at this stage. He's obviously slow, but that isn't necessarily fatal. The question with him is, does he have any nose for the net; any ability to read the play; and any willingness to take the punishment necessary to score substantial numbers of goals? So far, the answer to all three is 'NO.' But power forwards just do take longer to develop. I get the sense with him that something needs to click, and we'll see a move from 16 goals per season to maybe an extra 10. Higgins, BTW, would look pretty good on this team. We *know* that he is at least capable of producing like a second-liner for significant stretches of the season. That's more than the guys we're currently icing can say.

Players take time. I know it's painful. I know Lats looks like he sucks. I know Kostitsyn looks confused. I also know that a player doesn't really hit maturity until around 27, and that players as diverse as Plekanec, Mike Ribeiro, John Leclair, Hainsey, Beauchemin, Komisarek, Higgins and Markov were all Habs who spent time in the place those two guys are now - where you can't believe they will ever amount to anything. Lats and Kosty are just too young to give up on unless they are total lazy p**cks who show absolutely no desire or commitment, especially considering the success they have already enjoyed at this level. Unless some knock out offer appears (involving youth coming back too), trust Jacques Martin and concentrate on developing these players, perhaps properly for the first time since they made the jump.

Who was right, you or your dad? Looking at that line up, WE actually have more star power up front than the injury-depleted Hawks. Their edge on the blueline isn't as vast as the reps might suggest, either. On paper: a winnable game. Of course, on paper we were Cup contenders last season, so maybe 'paper' should be relegated to the role of wiping our butts...

Some clown posts 'trade Luongo for Price' on the 'Reader Reply' section of the Vancouver Sun website and hey, presto, it's the latest 'rumour.'

Me, I love how after a win, everything is cool, after a loss, recriminations, blame, and 'fundamental weaknesses' become the topic du jour.

The difference is that now the Pens are Cup champions. That gives them an aura of indestructability which they conspicuously lacked as late as last February (!). History does indeed suggest that if the Habs play their best, they can definitely win...but then again, that was the "old" Habs, not this new core. Also Price had a lot to do with our record of success vs. these guys. How quickly we forget, he was once viewed with the same air of Inevitable Greatness as Sidney Crosby - sort of the Malkin/Crosby of goaltenders. And he seemed to raise his game for the occasion, as if he saw it as a personal showdown between himself and the Sid the Kid. That's how I saw it, anyway.

Gomer's absence hurts big time. I'm really surprised that Halak is in. Martin is sending a ridiculously clear signal: any privileging of Price is definitively over. Quite a change to the Gainey-dominated philosophy of maximizing Price's "rich game experiences." I guess we have to trust Martin on this, given that he's The Man now and that he was a goalie himself. On the other hand, I'd feel better about trusting Martin if his actual track record in developing goalies were better (his coaching tenures in Flordia and Ottawa were marked by unending problems in nets). Anyway, the Halak/Price file is proving to be fascinating. If this keeps up, I will be very interested to see whether Gainey ends up doing to Martin what he did to Carbo: i.e., trade Price's rival out of town and by default force the coach to play Price.

Huet!! On the other hand, I don't think we can take for granted that Price will stay here long term. He's had to eat a LOT of crap in his time here - yes, he's also been heavily supported by the GM, but my point is that *he* might be more inclined to take note of the bad than the good - and might prove keenly interested in trying greener pastures once he's a UFA. From that standpoint I don't think a Price trade should be out of the question in the medium term. It would depend on how much enthusiasm for Montreal the Habs' brass detects in the young fella. We, and more importantly Gainey, will have a better sense once he negotiates his RFA deal.

Decent player, but thus far I haven't seen this 'decent point man' or many signs of this mysterious guy who got 45 points last season. BUT it's early and he is playing on the right side, so time will tell. I would argue for trading him ONLY in order to clear up cap room for necessary future moves, not as a goal in and of itself. If we weren't at the cap I would agree that moving him would be dumb; but he might be the first regular I would target if I were looking to clear cap space after Markov comes back.

I rather like this scenario. Guys like Spacek and Hamrlik are playing too many minutes right now - not that they can't handle it, but at their ages injuries are a concern. A strong 7-D committee will offer systematic relief for aging bodies leading up to the playoffs. The addition of Bergeron was brilliant, it will give us really solid NHL-quality depth if and when our injured guys come back.

If it's true, it's a good move given tight cap space. I like Laraque, but he's not worth his contract, especially now that our team seems to have more character (Gionta, Cammy) and more general toughness (Moen, Gill, Mara, even Chips comported himself nicely in that tilt). I'd rather we re-up Bergeron with that money, or it be used to pay off Plek's future contract, or whatever. Lots of better uses for 1.5 mil in a cap system.

I agree with BTH that Halak is somewhat erratic in controlling rebounds, and I have no problem with going back to Price, who I think is on balance the better goalie. Having said that, there's a lot to like about a policy of 'win and you're in' (unless you play quite poorly, in which case you should be out regardless). Part of what Martin is doing is getting rid of Country Club Canadiens, and the idea that ice-time is not consistently tied to performance (hi there, Kovalev). There's no reason in principle why that shouldn't apply to goalies as well. On the other hand, 'win and you're in' applied too rigidly ends up punishing goalies for lousy team play. I'm sorry, but there is no WAY the team played as well defensively in those losses that Price suffered. Right now Price is a bit of a victim of his team's growing pains, as well as his own inability to be superhuman behind a team that gave up catastrophic breakdowns. He also faced better teams, by and large. So putting him back in seems fair. More broadly, though, I've never seen anything wrong with Halak as a #1A guy and I've never seen why Price *has* to be like Luongo, playing 75 games a season. Roy had a #1A for years in Brian Hayward and it helped his development. Plus, playing a moderate number of games may mean less wear-and-tear on Price's body and thus fewer injuries over time. One of the nice things about this little run by Halak is that it might get everyone involved accustomed to the idea of Halak as a bona-fide #1A guy on the team. With that idea established, we may be able to avoid ridiculous 'goalie controversies' later on in the season when the pressure is greater and distractions more costly.

Yes, yes...all I'm saying is I won't get my hopes up until this guy has spent at least a year on the farm without a peep.

I'm no Don Cherry. It's just that I'm just sick to death of the Gainey Habs being burned by these guys from the former USSR. Yemelin in particular really galls. I'd be amazed if any other organization has had as many high-profile 'Russian' prospects go totally AWOL on them in so short a time. Oh well, maybe we've used up our quota of Abuse by Russians and are due for a good one...

Good point. Moen was a quietly great signing. Gill does the same thing quite a bit - in his case quietly removing guys from around the crease. Regrettably people only seem to notice his gaffes.

Only saw part of the game. Looked to me like a classic 'game-after-a-blowout.' Habs clearly had trouble getting up for this one and weren't at their best - BUT when they needed to turn it up, after the Isles' second goal, the top line and Pleks just dominated. That's how good teams beat crappy teams, sometimes. That was a TRULY incredible play by Plekanec...not so much deking out half the team 4-on-4 as having the skill and cool head to finish the play with that spectacular saucer pass. It's the ability to deliver that 'extra' move that seals the deal that separates never-weres and third-liners from stars...which (gulp!) is frankly what Plekanec is looking like to me this season.

Don't worry. He will either never come over (Yemelin), come to Hamilton for a week, hate it and leave (Valentenko), make the team and then regress into a sulky, erratic head case (Kostitsyns), or get stuck on the third line as a checker, get bored and leave (Perezhogin).

Gill is over-criticized in my opinion. Yes, he makes awful, cloddish plays here and there, but there are a lot of plays that he makes while looking clumsy. I think people confuse the difference between an awkward-but-acceptable play and a downright blown play. He also does what is supposed to do, namely clear the crease and rub guys out. No one, except a rank amateur, is going to get better at 34. His improved play of late is probably a combination of improved chemistry with his linemates, better support from the forwards, and perhaps getting fully into the groove of a new season. Like many grizzled veterans, he will save his best for the playoffs, so we'd be stupid to move him at the deadline, unless it's a sheer cap move.

He's an enigma for sure. On one play tonight he literally channeled Kovalev, skating all the way around the perimeter, looking kind of dangerous, only to loop all the way back around to the blueline and lose the puck along the boards. I had visions of Kovalev's usual shifts last season. I wonder if this guy really was damaged by studying at the feet of the AK-27? I would give Martin time to work on him. He may eventually begin to clue in as to what is expected and how to succeed. We need to remember that a guy like him may not have had much effective coaching during his NHL career (the Carbo factor) and may have suffered from emulating bad examples (the Kovy factor). But he's young and it might not be too late to rebuild him. Hopefully Martin thinks likewise, he'd be a nice 'project' for our coach. So I'd be in no rush to move him just yet...unless Martin gives up on him.

+1

It's impossible to tell how good this team can be, at this point. As Gainey said, we could win the Cup, we could miss the playoffs. Look. It is clearly a team built - almost literally - on the New Jersey model, relying on system and diffused skill through the roster rather than franchise players (because we don't have any and aren't likely to, short of pulling a Pittsburgh/Tampa Bay). Yes, a lot hinges on Price, but I don't think that Price will have to play out of his mind for this team to get to the Conference Finals; what it will take is total team commitment to an excellent system, staying healthy, our top players playing their best, and some amount of consistently effective secondary scoring. The last question is the biggest. It will require some of our young players and/or our young vets (Pleks, Kostitsyn, Lats) to step up and produce. For once. People will point to Boston, Washington, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh as unstoppable steamrollers that this team has no chance of overcoming. Excuse me if I fail to faint, but I've heard that song before. I've heard it about San Jose for several years running, I heard it about the Oiler in 1986, about the Nordiques and Penguins in 1993, I even heard it about us in 2008. So I'm not all that impressed. I can't see this team ever being categorized with these 'heavy hitters' but I CAN see us being in the upper-echelon of second-tier contenders, a team capable of doing serious damage. I can also see us failing to make the playoffs. Now my prediction has been that the veteran leaders would carry us through the early-season fires and into the dance. based on what we've seen so far, I'll nervously stand by that. From there, if we're firing on all cylanders, we will be dangerous, especially for any favoured team dumb enough to listen to the 'experts' prophesying that guys like Gomez and Gionta just aren't front-line Cup material despite a total of four Cup rings that say different.

Given that Halak looks like a potentially good NHL starter, it is indeed quite possible that the Price pick is turning out to have been an error. I am anything but a Price-basher, and I agree that Price probably has a higher ceiling than Halak. But think about the scenario of Getzlaf as our #1 C, with Halak as our #1 G. It's far from clear at this point that Price is or will be an improvement on THAT arrangement. Consider, too...if we draft Kopitar or Getzlaf, then we don't need to trade to acquire Gomez and his toxic contract. Etc., etc.. The mind reels.

Can we at least give him a few games to adjust? Besides, his point shot has been key to this modest win streak. Take the bad with the good.