ShortHanded

but they're kids!! They need to learn, which means making mistakes. If anything, what's always upset me about Carbo is how he loses patience with the kids immediately after making mistakes (and the mistakes should be expected because they don't have the experience yet) and yet has oodles of patience for underperforming vets who should know so much better. How much time did Smoke get even though he was playing terribly? He'd probably still be in the lineup if it wasn't for his injury. How many games did Breezer and Bouillon get to play while Gorges just sat on the sidelines. I want to see the kids. They can't be worse than some of the vets. and I'm willing to be patient. You expect Ryan O'byrne to totally make obvious mistakes. You're willing to forgive him. Breezer/Boo making the same mistakes? Not so much

wow! you really don't like the guy. I don't think he's playing well, and I don't think he's exceptionally skilled, minus his wrist shot, which has disappeared anyway, but I don't think he's all as bad as you're saying either. And Ribeiro, no matter how great he gets somewhere else (and I wish him all the best) was not going to work out here. His head was too inflated by being hte hometown "rockstar" type, and he was never gonna get to be everything they hyped him out to be. Sure, it happens to all the offensive type french canadians who play here, but some handle it better than others. Lats has handled it exceptionally. Ribs' mouth was too big, and his ego / attitude was too uncontrollable.

I've never felt very strongly about him this way or that. Over all I like him but I figure he's a bit overhyped and will need some time to grow into his role. But I DO like the way he's been finding different ways to contribute no matter where he's played (1st, 2nd, 3rd line). and I really like his chemistry with Chips. I think if we can keep getting the players to contribute in whatever way game by game, we're in good shape. Not everyone's gonna score each night, but blocking shots, more hits, hustling, etc. This is all important too, and usually decides the tempo of the game.

I agree with what you're saying. So we don't have to play Beige unless the current guys playing his spot (Kostopo, Lappy) play themselves out of the spot. For Smoke, when he comes back, I suppose just give him limited ice time on the 4th and don't play him every game? Is that enough respect and job security? Honestly, I prefer having Beige on the ice to smoke. To me, Beige tries harder and brings more energy, plus there's less of a chance that Carbo will try to put him on Koivu's wing (shudder!), but really I'd rather not play either of them next to the kiddie options we have. You're right about Ryder though, at least the other two still have a role (however limited it might be) Ryder can't do offense right now, adn he can't do defense. and we can't really afford to insert him in the line up and wait for him to find himself again, not when we're trying to win games and he doesn't bring the goals. The other guys who can take his place have a much better all around game and still manage to contribute even when they're not scoring. So we either trade him, but we won't get much back, or we lose him at the end the season and just bench him and only play him when we run into a rut and one of the guys who stole his spot plays themselves out of the line up. I agree with what Wamsley said earlier though (possibly in a diff thread) that he may be worth more for a possible 10 goals somewhere down the line this season then whatever he'll bring back in a trade...

When they come back, if the guys who played last night are still getting it mostly done, rotate Beige and Smoke into the lineup (if you think you HAVE to because otherwise it's disrespectful to the vets) every few games on the bottom lines, but otherwise, let the young kids go with it. I'd rather Lappy, Lats, Chipper, even Kostopo get the most time on the bottom lines here. And I think Dandy's played better than either Beige or Smoke. so, if we have to play them for the "keeping the vets happy" argument, even though I disagree, make it minimal. The kids, even if they're not playing fantastic all the time, still have the potential to grow into a lot more. Smoke is on his last legs. Beige is a solid grinder and agitator, but so is Lappy and he's the future, and I think we all want the future to start now. The only way this "rebuilding" fast tracks is by giving the kids enough ice time to play and learn.

What do you mean? I wasn't watching.

I TOTALLY know what you mean. That's how I feel and I worry about the same thing. I'm REALLY REALLY hoping he gets a real chance and good minutes.

I am SOOO glad that Sergei played a good game and we won. Hopefully this means we'll see him on the top two lines again next game and the team will keep the same six players on the top two lines. Not only did he play a good game, but Higgins and Koivu seemed sparked by his play, which is huge. This is exactly what I've been talking about when people were dumping on Koivu for playing bad. I know he's playing bad, but he always had higgins and some checker as the third player on the line. A line is THREE players, and for the offensive line to do anything, you need three guys with some level of offensive skill to produce. The other combination that seemed to work with Koivu and Higgins was Lats, but even though he played great with them, I think we lost that game, and so he was back on the line with Chips after it, which was actually okay by me for two reasons: 1- Lats and Chips play great together, and 2- Higgins on his off-wing didn't seem as good. However, Higgins played great on his off-wing tonight with Lil K. As long as we keep offensively talented players on those first two lines and give them a chance to succeed, I think good things will come.

I wouldn't either IF a - that D man is better than Bouillon / Streit, and b - that D man isn't smallish, and c - whoever's spot he takes doesn't end up as a forward If they just bring in another small guy who's a fringe #6, I'll go nuts. Also, if they get rid of Bouillon (waivers and re-entry if they have to, no one's gonna pick him up with that contract, or just send him down) it would be okay. Dandy's looking pretty good on forward and I like the energy he brings to the bottom checking type lines.

heheheh...

Don't we already have this thread (or like, 10 of them!) Just suggesting, but if you want to talk about the team needing an enforcer, how about going and finding the last enforcer thread and just adding a reply to it. You'd get it bumped to the top of discussion again. Right now, every few weeks we get a new enforcer thread and it's getting silly. It's like starting a new "this team needs a dominant first line centre" thread every few weeks. It's on everyone's mind, but we don't need 10 different threads on it. Now, about Downey, when he was here, he wasn't a good enough enforcer, so I'm not sure he really would help. But as I said in the other enforcer thread (not to belabour the point that there is already another enforcer thread) unless this is a guy who can play reasonably well, a la Chris Neil, I don't want a goon just for the heck of it. I don't think it'll fix the rest of our problems, and I think we have much more pressing needs than that. I agree we need to get bigger and grittier, but specifically have a goon? Not so much.

I hadn't thought of that and I don't really suspect it. They're short on offensive talent as it is and if this kid is good in that department, which he seems to be, I don't think he'll go. At the same time, if they're getting something really good as part of a deal back, like immediate offensive help, then maybe. But I just figure that if he's this close to making the jump to the NHL, wouldn't they see what he's capable of with them before trading him when he's an unknown quantity?

I'm REALLY really hoping this means that the top two lines are made up of offensive minded players. I would have played Lats on one of those lines the last few games (with Higgins and Koivu) instead of rotating Smoke, then Streit, then Dandy into that spot. But at this point, anyway, we have: Kovy, Koivu, Plex, Kosty, Kosty the second, Higgins, Lats, Ryder who *should* all be able to play in an offensive role, never minding slumps and stuff. Even if Kovy is injured, we have at least 6 players who can actually play that style, so hopefully Kosty the younger gets put on ONE of the offensive lines, and Koivu's offensive line actually has 3 players with decent offensive talent, not two and a grinder. I think I'll bang my head against a wall if one of Streit or Dandy is playing on one of the first two lines in the place of one of the players I've listed above. I hope Little Kosty does well, but I'm not holding my breath for an amazing first game. As long as he's not a total disaster, I hope Carbo shows some patience with him. Sometimes I find he has LOADS of patience for playing grinders on a top line, but won't leave a guy like Lats up there for more than a period if there are no immediate scoring results. To me, this is super backwards

True. At least now hopefully Gorges gets to play with *some* regularity. Although I bet you somehow they still find a way to sit him. Sigh.

ugh. fantastic. there goes my whole rant about just playing kovy and koivu together already... Source please?

:puke: :puke:

yeah, basically I don't care who the third guy is with Koivu and Kovy (I mean, I'd rather it's not Kostopoulous or anything, but...) just try them together, and I want Higgins Plex Kosty re-united. I'm fine with trying Ryder with Koivu and Kovy before we try Lats there, but my main thing is to give them a chance together.

Me too! For your lines, not a bad idea. but I've said it before and I'll say it again: Higgins - Plex - Kosty Lats - Koivu- Kovy Just TRY it already!

so in your opinion, what have they identified the problem to be? just curious.

They got along fine. They played together at the beginning of the season with Perogie two seasons ago. The only reason they were broken up was to "distribute" the offense, because none of the other lines were scoring.

It boggles my mind how Carbo will try every other combo, but WON'T try putting OUR BEST LINE of last year (Plex, Higgins, Kosty) together and putting Kovy and Koivu together. Try it Carbo! If it doesn't work, go back to all the other lines that - Oh wait - they aren't working either. TRY IT!!! Edit: Just a comment for those who will say, give Dandy a chance on the first and see if he scores. I HOPE he scores, but even if Dandy "works" on the 1st line tonight, how sustainable is it? how much regular offense is he going to provide?

I don't have arguments for defending him. I feel similar to you. He *should* be fantastic at his job, but I don't feel he respects the players and I don't feel he is fair with them. One treatment for some guys (begin not being told he's benched before the media finds out) and another for others (smoke deserving to be benched and not being benched, etc). I don't think he had any right to call out Markov last week and DENYING the guy was injured. it's different than saying "he's got to play better". If he'd said that, I could respect it. but he basically accuses markov of caring more aobut the all-star game than the team. That loses my respect and doesn't get you anywhere...

he's had a year and a about 20 games. that's long enough in my opinion.

and who do you think on the team as is should wear it?

so good !