hab29RETIRED

Ok- I can't see him being penciled in for montreal unless the don't bring back pouliot and I really think the need to. I'd like to see a line of pouliot-Eller-desharnais Having Trotter on the 4th line with Moen/darche is a waste and I'd like see White play everyday next year. So with Moen/darche/white/pyatt and a ufa centre or fro Someone from Hamilton - where would trotter fit for the type of role he could succeed in? Throwing in the Jagr rumour would mean moving down AK46 to the third line with Desharnais and Eller - I REALLY DON'T want to see Desharnais as a centre or any lower then the third line and I definitely don't want to see Eller any lower then the third line. This is why I really hope that they move Moen - white is a cheaper, younger and more physical replacement. Also why I'm still HOPING they demote Gomez and get his cap hit of the books. On D, nice to hear Weber is resigning, but I also REALLY hope they find a way to bring back both Markov and Wiz and dump Spacek. If PG can find a way to do that, we'd have the best defense we had since the late 80's/early 90's.

Kopitar was who I wanted the habs to take. It's turned out well, now that we now Price is a stud and should be one for a long time. But even knowing that, I'd still have taken Kopitar. a BIG OFFENSIVE center is something the habs have been lacking for a LONG time now. Having said that, it could have been disaster if Pouliot was available at #5, since from reports, that was who the habs were targeting. So we did dodge a bullet there. Having said that, I think they do need to qualify Pouliot. I think he can become a better player then he showed - he has the skill set to be a solid 30 goal guy. Problem is that the habs are not very good at handling the non-JM type player.

I hope so - come July 1, I think Detroit would be willing to through $6M+ at Markov

Btw, why would Trotter have to go through re-entry if he resigned in the off season?

I know it's only an Eklund rumor, but Markov to Toronto scares me, since Burke does tend to load up dman and has money to play with. The habs really need to lock up Markov, because he won't have any shortage of suitors, even at $6m+. Detroit would also love a guy like Markov.

Like his credindentials for being able to declare Crosby will retire and won't be back next year. There are six guys who i don't want to see, here from or listen to again - milbury, cherry, mcquire,Tremblay, houle and corey.

man, I just saw the highlights of the goals Boston scored - I really can't believe how Luongo is considered an elite goalie and also can't believe how he was so stupid shooting off his mouth and then flubbing his chance to backtrack his incredibly stupid remarks. I just can't see Vancouver coming back- despite only giving up 2 goals at home. 17 goals in three games i Boston is just ridiculous for any goalie to give up on the road. Vancouver has scraped out their wins, Boston has killed them. I'm hoping they come back - at least their getting used to coming back after being blown away, but it doesn't look good.

yep, but they should have known he was going to be picked up.

A trade for a young player with a bright future for two UFA's two days before free agency is just dumb asset management. Especially when of those UFA's became one because his team didn't qualify him.

Maybe $2-3M is a stretch, but I think $1.5M to $2M is acheivable. Hossa's hit is $5.275M, he was offered what $7.5M by Edmonton. that's over $2M You don't think Zetterberg coudn't have gotten between $7M to $8M on the open market, rather then his 12 year/$72M cap hit of $6M by resigning long-term? Datsyk also has a $6.7M, which I think could have been lowered with a longer term contract. Mike Richards could have got upwards of $7M. If Jeff Carter returns to the close to the 40 or 40+ goal mark and gets over his injuries, his $5M cap hit will be at least $2M less then what a team like Toronto would have thrown at him. hell even after this year's numbers, if he hit free agency he would have easily commanaded $7M as a UFA. I don't believe in offering a 10 year contract to anyone over 27 unless there is a big drop in actual salary during the last few years. That has been severly limited now due to the Kovulchuk contract - Vinny's salary cap hit wouldn't be so bad, if he had a few more years at the back-end at $2/$3M, but as it is i woudn't want to touch that contract. But for Subban/Price age guys, I think if you structure the contract where they get a nice bump during their RFA years, in exchange for a a lower average salary in their UFA years, you will average out to an overall lower cap hit - IF and ONLY if the term is long enough. I'd like the habs to take that approach while it is still available right now. As I've said before, the guys that i think are worth locking up for sure are Price, Subban, MaxPac, Eller for sure, I also thought that Ak46 was someone who should have been locked up, if he'd take something under $4.5M. I also belive that keeping a strong core of elite talent, as well as supporting players (Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Holstrom, Franzen, Draper, Maltby), around for such a long time has not only created loyalty within the wings organization, but also has helped make it a destination players want to play in. Otherwise, who the hell would want to live in Detroit for that long??? have you been to Detroit??? it is a DUMP!!! But despite being a dump of a city to live in, for hockey players, it is a prime destination.

I think the amount is going to be dependent on term. With the Habs practice of short term deals, I see the mistake of a 1 or at most a 2 yr deal between 1.5m-2m for maxpac and a 3-4 year deal for gorges around $3m. I'd like to see them at least try for a longer term deals with both.

I think he's going to be looking for something closer to, or over $3m. We could try lowering the cap hit with a longer term deal, but given some if the other deals out their, I think he probably will get $3m+.

I totally agree about Desharnais on the wing - been saying he should be on the wing since they called him up. I think we handcuff both Desharnais and Eller by playing them with scrubs. However, unless we can get a 1 year deal for Jagr, I'd much rather have Ak46 stay with Cammi and Pleks and giving Pouliot one last chance and play with Desharnais and Eller. With Trotter back in the fold, let Trotter and Pouliot fight for the 3rd line role in camp. I'd love to have 3 lines that are a solid scoring threat. While, I'd love to get Laich, unless we move Gomez, IMO, its pretty pointless to have the centre depth be Pleks, Gomez, Laich, Eller. I think we need to give Eller a more of a role with front line players or at least offensive guys, rather then have him play with least scurbs with no hands like Moen or Darche. Getting rid of GOmez (would have to be buried in the minors which mean the Moslons have to be willng to eat the cost), would allow us to have Eller and Laich fight for the second/third line role. FOr the 4th line, I really think we need to target a big physical guy who has a high percentage of wins on the draw and platoon that person with someone from Hamilton. IF we could, I'd also like to move Moen for a big guy who actually USES his size on a more regular basis.

I'd much rather give a little more to Wiz who has proven himself and find another creative way to get rid of Spacek - i think he is movable if we move him to a team trying to get to the floor and could use a veteran preseance - if we throw in a mid level draft pick (i.e. our 3rd/4th pick) in exchange for a low draft pick (i.e. 5th/6th pick from someone). If we can sign Wiz AND Markov i really like our D and moving a 3rd/4th pick is worth the cap space by unloading a slow, useless Spacek, over rolling the dice on Ballard on deal that could screw us for 4 years.

Yikes - not worth the risk at that salary and term

I think Ballard has 2-3 years left - though not certain. I wouldnt want to take a bad multiple-yr contract for a bad 1 yr deal. This could be a change of scenery required situation, but who do we move to make room capwise? Not Markov or gorges, who should be cheaper. Next year Subban gets a big jump. So who would we replace at the $4m spot?

THe issue of a 5 or 7 year deal with a guy like SUbban is you are really only buying 1 or 3 years of free agency in return for paying him more during for 4 of his RFA years. The benefit of locking down guys like Subban for longer terms is that you can significantly reduce the cap hit by by $2 to $3M in those years when those guys could demand upwards of $7M on the open market, it is also difficult to lock top guys down, because there will always be someone like Sather who will pay stupid money to get the guys they want. From a players perspective, they have to make a decision, on whether they want to hit the $8M homerun and not be on as strong of a team, or take less and be on a team like the wings, where their top 4 guys could have got more by going to free agency. However, to get the players to buy into this concept, the team has to be willing to make that longer term commitment to the players first. Montreal has always gone with 1 to 3 year deals with their young players and I don't think that Koivu even got anything longer then a 4 year deal. THe situation with Ryder was ridicilous, where I think he went 3 or 4 straight years of 1 yr deals before becoming a UFA. that is bad asset management. In ryders case it was even worse, since they really weren't even playing him much during the last third of the season, so they may as well just moved the guy. But then, that's just a whole different issue.

Issue in Vancouver is too many bandwagon "wannabe championship city fans" versus true hockey fans. I've got cousins who until two years ago souldn't no a puck from a soccer ball, but now all of a sudden they are die hard Vancouver fans. These are people who for 30 years of their lives hated hockey, now they live, breath and die hockey fans because they have a contending team and it the "in" thing to do. To add on to CC's point, of he migrant population, most of the people there are transplanted grass smoking, sun worshipping, LA North Wannabe, fair weather hockey fans. Even the media types are a bunch of clowns - like that hyppcritical blow hard Cam Cole who called Joseph a traitor for leaving Edmonton for more money and the spotlight and then proceeded to run to Toronto and then Vancouver the first chance he got to escape the snow in Edmonton. The Vancouver media is a lot like the dramedy Habs media, without the language revolutionaries. Having said that, i'm cheering for the canucks (but not watching), because I absolutely hate, loath, HATE, despise, did i say HATE the bruins.

Calgary's issue wasn't the term of long term deals. There issues was a totally incompetent GM who didn't realize that the post-lock out NHL had changed. THe long term deals he did sign were to the right players, but a few of them were structured badly AND he gave too many NTC/No Movement clauses - something Gainey also screwed up by giving that clause to a scrub and garbage player like Laraque. -7 years/or 5 years/$7M (don't remeber what it was), was a good term/price for Iginla and is still a good deal. If Calgary wanted to move Iginla today, the only challenge would be Iginla would control where he goes otherwise, an easy contract to move. -THe kipper Contract was also long-term (5-6 yrs) and i think it was around $5.5 to $6.5M, which again I wouldn't have had any hesitation of doing and I think Kipper is pretty movable. -the Six year deal for Reghyr (who I'm not that big of a fan of, since he is slow), is still an affordable $4M to $4.5M deal which if I would have no issue with. Not sure if that is another NMC - but if there is that is what you need to avoid. BUt still it is a very movable contract -Phaneuf was the ontract that killed him. He gave Phaneuf to the 6 or 7 year/$6M contract, or something close to that. Which is stupidity - I think given Phaneuf's contract year it was the right thing to do to lock him up long-term, but the went from rookie salary to $6M. For a contract to work for both sides, you need to have the player and team benefit cap wise. Pay the player more then you have to as a RFA during the RFA years, but less then you have to during UFA years (ie. a $3.5M/4.5M/5.5M/6M/6.5M/6.5M/$6.5M), so you are reducing the overall cap hit. Player gets term, dollars and security, team gets player locked, at an overall reduced cap hit and has long-term commitment from him. Even if the Phanuef contract was structured badly, Sutter fumbled as a GM by making a rash multi-player deal with the WORST team in the league and ended up getting even worse garbage from the Leafs in return. Even after that trade there were GM's saying they wish they knew Phaneuf was available - much like the Joe Thornton trade to SJ. Phanuef offers a similar parallel to the Subban situation, but at some point you have to evaluate what a players ceiling is, if you are astute and do it well early, you can have a lot of long-term savings locking him. I would not even blink twice if I was PG to take a deal like that (with lower numbers initialy) to Subban's agent to land on the numbers I proposed here. So the long term deals isn't what did in Sutter, it was going after players who had a long history of doing nothing in the big game or play-off success, when he already had a team that struggled in the playoffs. - Bouwmeeser - NEVER been a winner in the NHL or WHL, and putting them in a role where they are expected to be leaders. -Jokinen - Been on what 3-4 teams, never beenin the playofs -The garbage he picked up from the leafs and immidiatley signed or built into his long term plan - Stajan, Hagman -Making a pretty good move to get the habs to give up their top two picks so he cold pick up Cammeleri and then not resiging Cammeleri who WANTED to stay in favour of getting the bum Jokeinin -proceeded to pick up too many players on a gamble that were the one hit wonde variety (not sure of name - russion player - Kulimen??? from the rangers) Lastly, Darryl wanted a big, SLOW, physical team that grinds, clutches, grabs, which wasn't suited to the NHL. He drafted badly, not wanting to draft russians/europeans (seems to be a disciple of Don CHerry), and wants his team to play a trapping defensive style (hmmm, who does that sound like) and really other then his star players, stockpiled on old slow players. Lastly, he gave almost everyone NTC/NMC clauses, which ties your hands when you want to make trades. There is a single long-term deal that had a crippling effect on the team. Sutter reminds me a lot of Houle a bumbling GM who was a lousy judge of talent and made one rash decision after another - both from his player selection, as well as his coaching. He wasn't undone by the long term deals he signed - he chose the right core, his issue was how he fundamently was trying to build a late 90's team/early 2000 style of team in the faster post-lock out era and never seemed to waver from his stubborn stupidity.

Two reasons - I really think White can be a solid 3rd liner. He's a heart and soul guy and I'd much rather have him then Moen who was picked up for 3 years at $1.5M and really hasn't brought the physical element on a nightly basis the way White has. I think he can develop into a real leader (think he was a captain in Calgary???) and I'd like him to be around long-term. Secondly, successful teams also have consistency in their role players. Think Detroit with Draper, Maltby, McCarthy. Having a few role players around a long time as part of your core group, goes a long way in developing chemistry and loyalty to the crest. Those guys all got substantial raises and if you identify the right guys early, you can again have long-term cap savings by reducing cap hits in the years the market would have over-paid for them. Chris Higgins is another guy I really liked and wish he was still on the habs. I'd gladly pay Higgins the $2.2M or whatever he was getting over the $1.5M that Gainey paid Moen. The issue with Higgins was he was mis-cast into a top 6 guy. While Higgins is a good #5/6 when depth requires it on a time to time basis, he is the perfect third liner. Gets tons of chances with his speed, just not much finish - but is great on both sides of the ice. I see White being a similar type of player and once he gets more experience, I seem him being a leader and a guy that is loved in the locker room, because he sticks up for his mates and give a solid effort every night. And as I've already siad, having consitency with role players goes a long way to improve team chemistry and loyalty.

I actually think it is a good strategy locking up 5th/6th forwards long-term. The habs have locked up 4th/5th (IMO 10th- gomer) forward long-term through UFA or trades. They also locked up a 35 year old unmovable dead horse in Spacek for 3 years through free agency along with, what was it 4 or 5 year deal for Hammer - when no else was willing to go over 3 years. I'd much rather lock up my younger guys long term then go blow money and extra term on older UFA's like Spacek, Moen, Laraque, Samsanov or make stupid trades for dead weight like Gomez or Ninnimma. Or even worse having to trade your 2nd round pick on an annual basis to plug the holes of UFA's that you let walk or not having the depth when injuries srike you down.

Who's glossing over those massive screw-ups??? I'm stating the good things the clubs did and citing their stupidity as well. Talon deserved to be fired, doesn't matter if it was someone under him who screwed up but not getting paperwork in for his RFA - it was utter stupidity. If one of my employees accountable for that did that I'd fire his ass. Same thing for igning a one dimensional Dman like Campbell or Huet to stupid deals was incredibly stupid. But the point is once they identified there young guys, they locked them up long-term and they signed them early. As for Philly, they've done a good job locking up a solid D and forward group, but ever since Bob Clarke was GM, they just haven't as an organization understood the importance of a goalie - which is quite ironic, since he really owes his 2 cup rings to Bernie Parent. It's not like they spent their money and couldn't afford a goalie. Last year they just went and signed Zherdev as another redundant forward on an already stacked lineup instead of spending the money where they needed it. I think you have taken some university logic courses too much to heart in applying them in almost every post you make I also think you are also doing a lot of assuming yourself. What makes you think AK46 was asking for $5M long-term - that would be highly unlikely given his production to date and his track record. As far as how much of a premium you need to pay RFA's, I think Detroit is a good example. They have shown commitment to their home grown talent - kept them happy and the players their show loyalty in return and want to stay in Detroit long-term. You don't think Lidstrom could have gotten get $8M-$10M on the open market??? Or Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holstrom and Franzen couldn't get more money if they tested free agency?? Frankly, I like the approach of locking up guys for 8-12 years when they are 22-24. I do have an issue of giving that term to guys that are 27-30 like Lecavalier or Hossa. Signing guys younger, paying a bit of a premium early and saving big dollars later, is a risk to the player and the team. To the player he may be foregoing a bigger payout, but signing an earlier longer term deal, getting more money early, in return for less in UFA years. Th player protects himself against injury and getting security. From the team's perspective you lock up guys that you've developed, you create a feeling of commitment to the organization that fosters loyalty and in the long run, if you identify the right players you lock up your core long-term. If you show your core that you want to lock them long term to keep the group together, there are players who will take less (Philly/Detroit/Chicago are prime examples). The big win for long-term deals is that while you pay more now, you can significantly lower the cap hit in the UFA years you've bought. With the lower cap hit in those years, those players also should be more movable if things don't work out, due to the lower cap hit and from I understand, before a certain age, there are a lot more restrictions on the no trade/no movement clauses available to those players. I'd rather lock up my own players on long term contracts and securing more cost-effecive deals over the longer term, then have to offer term AND big $ to UFA's that you have to compete for on the open market. When you sign a UFA, you end up (or at least the habs do), giving more years then you should AND an extra $1 to $2m then what the guy is really worth. From the Habs, the following are the guys I'd try and lock up this summer (I'm including AK46, bcoz I do value him much higher then a lot of others here): Subban - 12 years - $3M/$3M/$4M/$5.5M/$5.5M/$6/$6M/$6M/$5.5M/$5.5M/$5M/$5M Price - 12 years - $4.5M/$4.5M/$5M/$5.5M/$6M/$6M/$6M/$6M/$5.5M/$5M/$5M/$4.5M Eller - 7 years - $2M/$2.5M/$3M/$3M/$3.5M/$3.5M/$3.5M (buying 2 UFA years, lowering the cap hit in those years) MaxPac - 8 years - $2.5M/$3M/$3.5M/$3.5M/$4M/$4M/$4M/$4.5M (gamble, given his injury, but I'd be more then willing, but lowering the cap hit in the 3 UFA years you are buying) AK46 - 6 years - $4M/$4M/$4.5M/$4.5M/$4.5M/$4.5M White - 7 years - $1M/$1.2M/$1.2M/$1.4M/$1.5M/$1.7M/$1.7M (basically giving him an average close to what Moen got as a UFA, but for longer term) Weber - 7 years - $1.2M/$1.5M/$1.5M/$2M/$2.5M/$2.5M/$2.5M (basically buying two UFA years and lowering the annual cap hit in those later years) Looks like Gomez will get a free pass this year (if Ownerhip was willing this year, I'd Souray/Redden him), next year I'd trade or demote him regardless what of he does next year. Trade him if he has any value regardless of the numbers he puts up (while his salary will drops significantly, the cap hit probably still be worth the numbers he puts up). Dump him to the minors if its another crap year.

funny how other organizations do get their players to commit and by doing, are able to buy the UFA years from their players at cheaper rates and its funny how other teams are able to get their players to take home town discount as RFA. It's also no coincidence that those organizations are now the successful ones, rather then being the middle of the road team the habs have been for far too long. Chicago signed their 2 stars up front and 2 big dmen to long term commitments at a much more reasonable rates then they would cost if they hit UFA. Philly - Ditto, Detroit - Ditto, Vancouver - Ditto. Had Tallon not screwed up his RFA tendersheets at the deadline and bid against himself for Huet and Campbell, the hawks would have be the class of the league right now - perfect example of how tanking for so long at the death of a horrible owner can turn a franchise around. Had Philly not been so stupid and signed a real goalie three years ago, they would also have been a killer team in the playoffs given the guys the have locked up. Successful organizations with a long-term view are cognizant of locking up their assets. These organizations make a commitment to the player and in return their players have taken less money then would have been available on the open market. If you sign your young prized assets, best case scenerio is you have guys signed at a discount from market rates. Worst case is that you proabably still have a movable asset - as long as you don't sign players to stupid Gomez/Redden/Drury/Horcoff kind of deals. The habs continue with one year deals and IMO that puts more pressure on the player and serves as a distraction to both the player and the team. Then when we lose our guys to UFA's we end up trading our #2 picks to fill holes that wouldn't have been there (i.e. Streit), had they locked up guys before they hit UFA status. Right now we have an oppertunity with young guys like Subban/MaxPac/Price/Eller to have that closeness within the team and these guys may be willing to take less. You don't think Zetterberg/Datszyk/Holmstrom/Franzen couldn't have gotten more if they went to the open market? With AK46, I think the situation was probably more the organization not wanting to offer him an increase - I'm basing this more on how little JM used AK46 on the PP, shifted him around the lineup for mistakes then most other non-performing front line players and had a guy who scored 2 PP goals all year and another scrub with no hands a regular fixture on the PP, as well as the flippant comments JM made when AK46 got off to a hot start. Instead of trying to be more apprecaitive of his play and being more positive in the media, was dismissive and commented that it is a contract year. I know if I made that kind of comment to one my high performing staff members, they'd be pretty pissed, so why would you expect a pro athelete to be any different??? Lastly, if the habs signed AK46 for $4m-$4.25M 4 years and he scores 25 goals/year and brings his physical game I'd be satisfied - to me that is the worst case scenerio for AK46, as he has become a much more complete player and I really don't get the hate for him by some on this forum. How many people were complaining about Gionta and Cammy when they weren't producing and seemed to be in neutral for parts of the season (Cammy in particular?) How many were demanding they be moved. Gomez and Cammy have taken as many bonehead penalties as AK46 has and made a lot of just dumb plays during the stretches that they struggled (in Gomez's case that was most of the season). Anyway, I really think that he is going to break out to be a 30-35 goal scorer, in which case you would have gotten a bargain, now we'll probably see another guy walk away for nothing.

Actually, there is no way I wanted Komi signed for $4M+ in his UFA year, let alone what he wanted to resign in Montreal. But when he signed the deal he did earlier, I think they could have locked him up longer for $3 to $3.5M and i would have been willing to take that deal. I also have liked Higgins and said prior to the deadline that he's a guy I wouldn't mind the habs bringing back. Hated to see him go. BUt again, he was a guy that was miscast as top liner. From the home grown habs, the guys who really impressed with their work ethic and speed were Pleks and higgins. You have to take chances on your kids and do a better job in defining and projecting their roles. With Higgins, the habs sucked so bad, that he was cast as potential #1 liner - I think the number of misses he had was a testament to how good Koivu was and how under-appreciated Koivu was in being a consistent point producer without ever having a true #1 winger to play with (Kovy doesn't count, becuase they just didn't seem to click). Even this year, or last year, just can't help wonder, how much better we could have been with Koivu over Gomez. As far as Lats, like Roy said, he shouldn't have been in the NHL when he was and belonged in the minors afterwards. You would have thought the has would have learned from Ribeiro, i'm glad they are using a different approach with Leblanc - hopefully he gets at least a full year in Hamilton. I like Hamrlik, but it was a situation where the habs were really bidding against themselves and quebec taxes. They broke the bank for Hamrlik, but didn't resign Streit - who I'd rather have had - and that was before he showed he could actually play defense! Right now, I think was a time to trow the dice at AK46, he has become a much more complete player this year and even when he wasn't producing he was contributing.

IF AK46 was willing to sign for $3.75M for 4 years or $4M for 5 years, I would have done it in a heartbeat.