hab29RETIRED

I've hated PG's handling of the club this year. BUt it's hilarious that the CBC idiot Ron MacLean is asking the WORST GM in HISTORY, the clown Mike Milbury what his approach was to making a deal!!! SERIOUSLY?????

Can't we scratch Gill??? Keep him from getting injured and hurting his trade value. This season is lost, ma as well try and continue the development of the guys that are going to be around next year.

I don't get why Emelin isn't in the lineup????

The reason I went back 15 years, is that my point is you NEED to go back 15 years just to come up with FOUR 30 goal scorers and only a total of five times that a hab has hit the 30 goal mark in 15 years. That is ridiculous!! The last one was Kovy and that was around 4 years ago!!! I havne't checked, but I doubt if there is another team that has only had a total of five instances of their players hitting 30 the 30 goal mark in a 15 year period. I'm sure even Columbus or the Islanders have had more then five instances of their players hitting the 30 goal mark. As for the potential that Wiz was approached by PG to resign with the habs. Wiz made it quite clear that the habs never even approached him about resigning with them.

looks like Cammy may be on after hours on CBC tomorrow. Could be interesting.

I wouldn't want to move Subban either. IMO, we only have two real untouchables on this team - price and Subban. But lets say Philly came calling and were offering up two of JVR, Couturier, or Schenn and Simmonds. Do you still say no??? what if in addition to Subban all they asked for was Gill, to shore up their defence for a cup run??? A team like Philly is loaded. They have an over abundence of a mix of young up and coming players (JVR, Coutuerier, Simmonds, Voracheck, Schenn), as well as established stars (Briere, Giroux, Hartnell, Jagr) up front and good supporting forwards. However, because of Pronger's injury, they do have questions marks defense. That may make Subban so attractive they may be willing to overpay - and it may not really be an overpayment if Subban does become a Norris winner. What if they came calling and wanted to go for it all THIS YEAR and were willing to over pay, do you still say no to moving Subban??? While none of this likely, the point is no one is untouchable. I'd like a GM who will at least EXPLORE, ALL possibilities. We are at a point of total dissaray as an organzation. We have a lot of good pieces (Price, Pleks, Subban, MaxPac, Cole, AK46, Markov, Gorges, Yemelin), but organizationally, culturally, chemsitry wise we are a mess. Some sort of change is needed. We really need better leadership at the management level. A team that is willing to shake things up proactively rather then always being reacting. When LA got Gretzky, they went and explored an opperuntity no one else would have thought was possible. Our leadership from ownership to GM is to concerned about appeasing everyone the fans, politicians, fans, rather then trying to do explore every option to make this franchise better. We used to be the model hockey franchise for the WORLD, not just the NHL. Our players were highly regarded all over the world. Tikhanov called Gainey the perfect and best hockey player. Dryden was a rock in net. We had the big three PLUS up and coming Lanway and Englom on defense. On top of that we had the most creative and explosive player in the game in Lafleur. Supporting him were Shutt, Lemaire, Cournvayer. Our depth guys were Houle, Tremblay, Risebrough. On top of that we had other offensive guys like Napier, Acton, Larouche. That was then, this is now. For the past 10 years we have been struggling to get back to respectibility and now we are a laughing stock of the league. I don't want to just get back to respectibility. I want us to be the model franchise again. For that to happen, we need to explore all options. To do that we need a change in leadership. We need innovative guys a the helm of this ship. Gainey was a rock, but he was a reactive guy and often reacted to late and towards the end made a lot of bad decisions and lived in the "old" hockey mindset. He had a rigid philosphy (not negotiating during the season), despite the fact that he was foregoing some of the leverage offered by the CBA, by negoitating during the year. He made a lot of snappy decisions - moving Ribeiro, Grabs, supporting the crappy way that JM was dealing with SK74, moving Lats. PG has been more of the same. We need somone who is willing to do things that break with convention. I was highly critical of Tallon of the signings he did with Chicago. But he has really broke with convention on how he has rebuilt the Panthers. The only real misstep was the Horten trade.

I agree. Although, to be honest, I really didn't expect him to be as good as he's been. Expected him to be a 2nd liner.

I see as paying second and third tier free agents to stupid money, like the amount Columbus paid for wiz or the isles paid for streit. I don't see us being able to sign the most prized free agents. Cammy was one of the rare exceptions where we did get one of the top 3 guys available. Having said that, if we didn't make the idiotic gomez trade, who knows we may have had a chance at gaborik.

In the last 15 years, there have been only 4 players who have scored 30 or more goals for the habs. Kovy, Ryder (twice), Zednik and Rechhi. I think this is an indictment more on management of the team then the players. Why is it that that every player who comes here has their numbers generally go down and why is it that players that leave suddenly look better??? It's the style of play and the inability of management to get a top notch center. Koivu's the best centre this team has since Damphouse and after his injury in his rookie year he has always been a 1a, or suited for a number 2 role. the guy had a heart of a lion, inside a glass body. If Gainey had brought in a guy who was actually WORTH $7.2M instead of Gomer pyle when he signed Cammy and brought in a coach who was offensive minded and suited for the guys he was bringing in, Cammy could have topped 30 goals. Frankly, even though Ovechkin is on pace to score only score 30 to 35 in Washington, if he was on Montreal he may not even have been able to score 25 goals on our current team. The only two true first line players this team has traded for or signed in 15 years are Kovy and Cammy. that is an indictment on management. They have not traded for a true #1 dman. As much as I dislike the neanderthal Burke, he did trade for #1 Dman in Phaneuf and did so by only giving up a bunch of 3rd/fouth liners (no I don't consider Hagman or stajen 1st or even 2nd liners). I would never have been willing to give up 2 first round draft picks - particulary given the team the leafs had, but at least he did trade for a 1st liner in Kessel. he also raped anaheim by dumping a contract (blake) that everyone felt was immovable. He picked up Liles very cheap from Colorado and got a king's ransom for Kaberle from the bruins. PG on the other hand has constantly wasted picks on rentals (Moore - why the hell wasn't he resigned), didn't even TRY or make some sort of an offer for Wiz - maybe he woudn't heave signed - but damnit make an offer at least. During the season, he could have tried to sign Wiz for the same money Kaberle is making now. How many gm's or teams make it a regular habit of trading from a position of weakness??? The habs killed any chance of getting any sort of return for Sk74 and traded him for two UFA's. Who the hell would have given up that much for those two UFA's - its not like he traded for the rights to Brad Richards or something!!!! Laps was traded for nothing. D'Agostini started scoring after leaving here. Lats exploded until getting injured. Why the hell do we do such a lousy job in developing our players. THey managed to save MaxPac by FINALLY sending him down last year to redicover his game. And the comments on this site that other gm's weren't doing their job by not trying to find out if Cammy was available are RIDICULOUS!!!!! WE are trying to get a return. The onus is on GAUTHIER, and NOT other Gm's to maximize the return for montreal. If other GM's are not calling him, its their loss, but more so it's OUR loss. PG needs to get on the damn phone and market his player and create a market for his player - that is part of his damn JOB!!!!! We are not going to make the playoffs (PG may still be delusional that this team can make the playoffs), he needs to make a deal that helps us today and tomorrow. Maximum value for players is obtained at the deadline. Why WOULD"NT you create an auction situation leading up to the deadline?????

I think by taking on Schultz who is signed for I beleive over $3M it should help them out. I also don't see them keeping all of their guys next year (i.e. they have a lot of same type of 2nd/3rd teir players like knuble, brower, chimera, laich, halpern), so they will probably need to move some of them. Gill is probably done next year and Weber provides them with a cheap young dman.

i think we could have done what Burke has been willing to do. Take on a bad contract for this year like a Semin. Given Green's health issues, I think if we took on Semin, another contract they don't want like Schultz and the rights to Kuznetsov, for Cammy, Gill and Weber, they may have bit. I just wish that our management would think out of the box to find ways to get a truly elite player on this team. I don't like replacing a 1st liner with a 2nd/3rd liner. Especially one who has the same attitude issues (potentially worse) then they guy we are moving.

I know we weren't getting stamkos or perry. But i had hoped that with the right package we could have gotten a young centre prospect, or even a blue chip scorer prospect. One team that I think would have been a great fit, given their playoff failures is the caps. They probably would have wanted a playoff guy like Cammy and Gill for a guy like Kuznetsov. Instead we get someone else's dirty laundry. I hope you are right - but have my doubts.

Bourque really didn't seem as enthusiastic coming here as Cammy seemed going back to Calgary.

Yep and I can't see either of them wanting to resign with Montreal. Honestly, given the way PG has managed this team, i really can't see too many UFA's wanting to come here. We have become the devils that Gretzky called a mickey mouse organization, before the devils tried to emulate the habs.

And you don't think Bourque's numbers will decline when he comes from calgary to montreal like Cammy's numbers declined??? This is gainey's fault for acquiring Gomez and signing Cammy after already deciding to go with JM as his coach. You have to have players that suit a system and right from the start JM was the square peg trying to drive his system into a round hole.

That is why we need to move Moen this year instead of trying to resign him. I think we can fill his position with another UFA at the end of the season. At the deadline he potentially can bring a 2nd rounder. IMO opinion that is another reason to resign AK46 - the return for him is not going to be as good as what AK46 brings to to the table.

Do you actually think we are really better off with Bourque??? Bourque maybe be bigger, but he doesn't play "big" all the time. People here criticize Ak46 for not producing every game. At least he is still physical most nights. Bourque has a tendency to disapear completely. he is also a guy not well liked by teammates. Did you see the elbow he got suspended for. It wasn't even a physical play. It was just a lazy, dirty hit, like the one that Steckl gave Crosby.

I don't know when this team is going to stop trading their players at the lowest value. One of the call ins on the radio had the funniest comment (another flames fan who was thrilled with this deal). Comment was "you, never, ever, ever trade a player at his lowest value, unless of course your name is Jimmy Rutherford and you get a call from Pierre Gauthier." Three things to keep in mind about those that are thrilled we got Bourque are even satisfied with this deal. 1) He has not been the same since his injury a year or two ago - no longer has the speed he once did. 2) Calgary plays a much more offensive style then the habs. Even with sutter as the coach, their Defense sucks and Bourque is as lazy as Cammy in the beckchecking department. Even Glencross scored over 20 goals here and he would have Moen type numbers (last year's moen) on Montreal. I can't see him scoring 20 goals. 3) Bourque is not an upgrade over AK46. This trade signals to me that we lost two scorers. And are most likely going to be filling them with downgrades for both both players.

I hope so - 2nd and 3rd rounders are what I had in mind. WHen I heard that, i thought what the hell are these guys smoking. I also think Campoli should be able to fetch much higher then the 7th round pick that was being reported in Tuesday. What really pisses me off is that I thought if we moved either Cammy or Gionga, with the right package, I thought we could have got a high-end center prospect AND a 1st rounder. For Cammy we got a 2nd rounder - which i think will be lower, since I think he will help Calgary and Gionta is done for the year. With DD at around $1M and Gallagher coming up, i really don't think I want two small guys in the top 9 next year (Gionta, DD) and potentially 3 the following year (assuming Gallegher makes it). One potential deal I was hoping for were Gill and Cammy to Washington (assuming they move Semin to clear cap room) for that russian juniour prospect. I know it would have been a long shot, but given that they need playoff expereince, who knows they may have bit.

Agreed. I've been campaining for that since last spring. He was very effective as winger in the playoffs last year. I really hope they don't move him in the PG's quest to get bigger.

that seems to be the modus operandi for the habs. Its also why we need to start moving guys like Moen close to or at the deadline. His value is never going to be higher. We should also try sheltering Gill - use him in mainly PK situations and limit his 5-5 blunders, on Montreal's TSN radio tonight they were saying Gill could net a 7th round pick. Maybe i'm overvaluing Gill, but typically at the deadline teams give are willing to give up a 2nd/3rd rounder for a shutdown type of defender. Similarly with Moen, the sentiment was he could net a 4th rounder at the deadline. If history has shown anything teams that THINK they may have a shot typically overpay and I don't see why we couldn't get at least a 3rd rounder. I'm probably in the minority, but I'd also see if Kaberle could fetch a 2nd rounder at the deadline as well. Particularly, If Markov comes back and looks like he is able to take hits and his knee is holding out. I'm getting real tired of the habs having Dman that are one dimensional and need to be sheltered (i.e. Gill - can't really play 5 on 5, Kaberle is a liability 5 on 5, Diaz - size, Weber - size and the way they are developing him, he is being developed as a PP specialist and IMO his development is hampered by having him play forward, campoli - soft puck moving dman who can't play defense). Of the other guys i'd like to see moved are Campoli and Weber, if we are going to screw around having weber at forward. I think he can be a good #4dman in this league, but I think the habs have done a lousy job on developing him as a dman. I also don't think there is room for Diaz and Weber on the same defense. If we can get any sort of pick for Darche - move him. I REALLY hope we try HARD to sign AK46 and would only move him if we can't get him signed. I think he is a guy that we should be able to get a good prospect from, if packaged with a guy like Weber - too bad Simmonds is no longer in LA. But I really doubt we will get good value for him and I really think this is a guy who will become a 30-35 goal scorer under a different system. Even another year under Cunneyworth, a more mature Eller and a more offensive linemate to join them, I think AK46 could be a 30-35 goal scorer in Montreal. No way we are going to make the playoffs. We need to maximize the return on our assets. To this end, one thing that HAS to change, is going into the deadline we NEED to work up an auction for our assets - pit GM's offers against each other, instead of this BS cloak and dagger approach to dealing.

Hey I liked Bourque two years ago, but he really has not been a guy who puts forth an honest effort - much like Cammy. I have been saying we should move Cammy, but IMO, he was the best chance of getting a 1a/2 type of centre (ie. top level prospect). Instead we get a guy we are going to be rolling the dice on. There are too many IFS with Bourque. This can be a good deal: -IF his injuries haven't impacted his speed the way it looks like they have -IF he learned something of the negative press he got in Calgary -IF he figured out that constant effort is required and necessary for him to be effective -IF he learns from his selfish penalties and suspensions, but like MaxPac figures out how to be physical without being afraid to get suspended (unlike MaxPac, his suspensions were for clearly blatent cheap shots out of laziness) -IF he can translate his 27 goals in clagary to at least 20-22 goals in Montreal If all the IF work in the habs favor, then they won't do too badly with this deal. But this deal will always represent what could have been. This still doesn't exonerate PG. Timing of the deal was terrible. Why would you let a guy play when it sounds like the deal was pretty much done that afternoon. Given Cammy's comments, it would have been a perfect excuse to bench him, in case the deal was going to go down. It just makes us look like a classless, reckless franchise that is making rash decisions. Timing of Pearn and JM firing were also terrible.

I've been listening to TSN radio on Montreal and flames radio. Montreal radio announcers/guests and callers outraged. Here in Calgary they are loving the deal. I've already got 7 emails from co-workers and friends here telling me how they raped us! Yeah, but its not like Cammy was happy under Martin's system.

main thing is that he will be allowed to play his game. It made no sense for us to sign fast speedy guys and hire Martin as the coach.

Frankly, i don't think the habs have any interest in resigning him and will move him by the deadline, without any attempt to sign him. I predict at least 15 goals during the last half of the year.