hab29RETIRED

I thought that the Minnisotta rumour was for Markov and not Souray?

The Ducks have been listed along with the Sharks, wings (list other UFA's coming back), Oilers (probably out not an option anymore), Canucks (don't have anyone of interest), Flames (already got Stuart). Although most of the rumours are from Ekland and that Ottawa reporter, neither of whom are all that reliable - at least I hope that their other rumour of the habs trying to pick up a goalie is not reliable!!!

They are loaded with prospects, but i see only two that might help us next year and one who can immidiately help us (Gezlaf). SJ has more prospects that may have an impact next year

my reply wasn't serious - it was meant as sarcasm at the type of game plans oppenents DO have against us

it's not just the games in hand that worry me,we still have 3 or 4 games left against the make beliefs, and for whatever reason, the team just has not been showing up for the toronto games this year.

i like him, but i think we should be able to do better. I think he is another 2nd line centre. I would rather try and get someone who has more #1 potential like Getzlaf or Marleau. Although I doubt if we can get Getzlaf, because 1) if he was available, i'm sure Lowe would have got him in the Pronger trade (i was surprised that he didnt' get getlaf AND perry in that trade), and 2) i think the ducks are already stacked o defence, whereas San Jose NEEDS a guy like Souray. Straight up i can't see the sharks ever gong for SOuray for marleau, but if we were also offer other spare parts so they can be a top 2-3 contender in the West, we might be able to pry Marleau and a top defensive prospect out of SJ (i.e. Ryder, Bonk, Bouillon). I think we have a lot of wingers that can become top scoreres, but they need the proper centermen to succeed. I also think we really need to re-build our defence - Komisarik is the only quality d-men we will have the rights to for a few years and I don't know if we can re-sign Markov.

I agree that you can probably get a first rounder and a prospect and perhaps even a 3rd liner. But if i'm making a trade with a playoff contender (i.e. Anaheim or SJ), i'd rather try and get 2 or 3 solid prospects the a first rounder, since the first rounder will be a late round choice anyway. There are three solid prospects on SJ (Carle, Vlasic????, Bernier), and one on Anaheim (Ryan). the only thing is if anaheim or SJ would have been willing to move them for a rental, they probably would have done it for Forsberg. That's why i think you have to offer someone else as well. Personally, I'd like to see the habs try and get Marleau and one of Carle/Vlasic. I think if the habs offered somethig like Souray, Ryder and Bonk and Bouillon, they may be able to pry both Mareleau and a solid defensive prospect from SJ - which would address both of the Habs most pressing needs. I would hate to see the habs move Souray for someone like Paveleski - the type of player the habs already have in their system.

I like souray - if it wouldn't cost more then $4.5M to sign him. I do think that the habs have to either sign him before the deadline or trade him. He is the only guy we can get a decent return for - despite being a UFA at the end of the year. I also think we can get even more if we trade him to where he wants to go (i.e. Anahiem or SJ), since they would have first crack at re-signing him. As much as i respect Gainey and think he is the best GM we have had in 3 decades (no i was never a big fan of Savard), I think if Souray walks at the end of the year and we get nothing, he should lose his job for a decision like that. If we were a serious contender (top 2-3 in the conferance), i would say keep Souray and bring in another UFA like Guerin to help us in the playoffs. As it is though, we don't have the defence, a consitant offence (don't point to the first half of the year, bcoz we still sucked 5 on 5). You have to get something for him or sign him. But you cannot let him walk and get nothig back. This team really does not have any defensive prospects ready to step in next year (maybe emelin), and despite good prospects up front, there is really no blue-chip can't miss first liner from our offensive prospects. I think you have to move Souray to get a blue-chip first liner up front and/or blue chip defensive prospect. I still like Bernier and Carle. No, there is no way that SJ would trade them for Souray alone, but you may be able to get them and another prospect if you package Souray with Ryder/Bonk or another one of our dead weight defencemen like Bouillon or Dandenault.

I don't totally agree with you. I think the oppenents do have a game plan against the entire Montreal D. All you have to do is pressure them and they WILL give up the puck. 9 out of 10 times they WILL make a bad pass. 9 out of 10 times they WILL fail at getting the puck out of their zone. Offensively, I think we have the prospects and young guys to turn this ship around over the next year. Defensively, we are in MAJOR TROUBLE. it's funny how the coaching staff is so intent on turning their forwards that are offensive prospects into 2 way players, to the point of destroying them as offensive threats. Yet they can't teach their defence to play DEFENSE!!!!! I'd like to see the habs hire an assistant coach to for the D - I'd love to see the big bird take that role, but I don't know if he even wants to be an assistant coach anymore - especially in montreal. I also don't understand why the habs can't adjust to the other team's keying in on SOuray on the PP. I don't think you can count tonight, bcoz, well it was Columbus, they are even worse then the habs are. However, all year i've been saying that the habs should put a forward who can control the play on the point with Souray (i.e. Kovolev). That gives the habs an aditional threat from the point if the opposition keys in on Souray, also opens things up for a play down low. I think Koviu setting up Ryder tonight illustrates my point. Having Markov setting up Souray just IS NOT WORKING anymore. Teams are countering that play. The coaching staff should have one forward who's job is to keep his butt in front of the goalie, and have two guys as a threat at the point - Souray with his shot, and a guy like kovolev or Koivu who can shoot but also have the skill to make the cross ice pass.

I don't totally agree with you. I think the oppenents do have a game plan against the entire Montreal D. All you have to do is pressure them and they WILL give up the puck. 9 out of 10 times they WILL make a bad pass. 9 out of 10 times they WILL fail at getting the puck out of their zone. Offensively, I think we have the prospects and young guys to turn this ship around over the next year. Defensively, we are in MAJOR TROUBLE. it's funny how the coaching staff is so intent on turning their forwards that are offensive prospects into 2 way players, to the point of destroying them as offensive threats. Yet they can't teach their defence to play DEFENSE!!!!! I'd like to see the habs hire an assistant coach to for the D - I'd love to see the big bird take that role, but I don't know if he even wants to be an assistant coach anymore - especially in montreal.

I was really impressed at the way Halak played tonight. He was solid in the first and after a neare collapse he got the win for the habs tonight. This kid does it all. Great at handling the puck - unlike both Abiecher and Huet who are an accident waiting to happen when they are out of their nets. What really impressed me though was his poise and his positioning. Unlike Aebiesher who flops around like a fish out of water and puts himself out of position, lets out terrible rebounds, Halak is quick to get back on his feet and keeping his body square to the shooter. He is not a big guy, but positions himself so well and moves so quick that he covers a lot of net. Lets hope the habs ride him for most of the remaining games. Abby is just too inconsistant and technically unsound to be reliable in the long run. Even Huet, who was having a pretty good year, despite struggling a bit over the past month, puts himself down and out too much. I also was impressed with Milroy tonight too. The only reason Bouillon scored, bcoz, FINALLY someone on the team was willing to pay the price in front of the net, and put his ass in the front of the oppositions goalie. Perozhogin also looked really good. I still think the habs are done for the year, since they really only have two games against teams that they SHOULD beat (Wash & NYI), and the leafs have 2 games in hand. I also think they just don't have the defence to get them in the playoffs. Halak was better at moving the puck from behind the habs net, then any of the habs DMen were. I'd like to see the habs call up and give a chance to more of the kids for the rest of the year.

yes, but st. louis was given a chance to be creative, and that is the big difference. If he was in Montreal, the habs's braintrust probably would have told him that he should use his speed to become a premier defensive forward, a la carboneau.

the sad thing is the habs mgmt can drive this team to the ground and still maintain the fan base. I'm still a fan despite the grundman years, despite houle/trembley and ronald corey. the habs aren't nashville or anaheim that if the team is not doing well the'll lose their fanbase. I think that Gainey needs to cut his losses with the current core and start to build a contender for next year. souray is his most tradeable asset. In my opinion (as a nobody fan) if gainey doens't move Souray AND can't sign him for a reasonable contract by the deadline, he should be fired for stupidity beyond redemption. And i say this despite having a ton of respect for Gainey.

for the most part this is a result of Terrible Mgmt - which didn't just start in the Houle era. Savard was responsible for the start of the habs decline by trading away all of his experienced d-man at the same time. In the same year the habs lost Green (retired?), Robinson (traded/allowed to walk), Ludwig (may as well have been traded for a bag of pucks). Then to compound that a few years later he traded a way one of the top 3 defencemen in the league (chelios), for a guy who had been injured and on the decline (savard). Too many people give Savard too much credit for two cups, but lets face it no patrick Roy, no stanely cups. Simple as that. The habs also went into offensive hibernation, by never allowing their young players to develop, always insisiting that they learn to play two way hockey before getting their shot. Well, by the time they get through with most of their prospects - which really weren't A calibare prospects to begin with, they go from being prospective 2nd liners to 3rd and 4th liners. In the past, the habs have had way too many gilchrist's, keane's, macphee's and skrudland's. One or two of those types of players are more then enough. Even now, its painful having to watch murrey and downey (who have both done absolutely NOTHING all year), playing while Koitysin, Grabovsky are sitting in the minors. To me it should not be surprising that the habs fall started shortly after they dumped Lapierre in the minors despite the fact that the kid played his heart out and was one of the best players in each of the games he played, instead of dumping downey or Murrey. It seems even when the kids do what they are supposed to, they still don't get a chance. Look at Pittsburgh, they give Staal a chance, not intending to keep him up, but once he showed he belonged, they stuck with him, even when he started to struggle a bit for a while. Last night, after calling up Milroy, they should have had him on one of the top two lines, instead they had him wasting away on the 4th line. Perozhogin, is another guy who given a chance to get the confidence he needs can become a 30 goal scorer, but the habs have him playing a defensive role. After stressing defence and killing any chance of developing offensive players, i can't believe carbo and his braintrust wonder why their team can't do anything 5 on 5.

yeah, carbo's moves have really left me disspointed. Even when they were having success, the teams 5 on 5 play was horrorandous and the way he handled samsonov was bad as well. Carbo was a scorer who became a very good checker, maybe he wants all of his players play like that. It seems everything the habs do is terrible. Whenever they are trying to move the puck out of their zone, it is a disaster waiting to happen. Their D has got to be the absolute WORST in the league. There just is no urgency or pressure when they are forechecking. They can't seem to make 3 straight passes (wht the exception of the bonk goal), without passing into someone's skates or behind someone.

I'm a big Saku fan. BUt for the past 2-3 weeks the effort has NOT been there. In the past when his line was struggling, it was bcoz his linemates were not finishing on his setups. this year he has NOT shown any signs of being a leader, nor is he showing that he can carry this team on his back and out of this slump. And he is only getting older. Even during the first half of the year, where he was on pace for one of his best years, a lot of his success was on special teams. Right now the whole team stinks. They are not showing the courage necessary to get of a slump. They are spending the entire PP time on the periphery, guys are not willing to pay the price and go to the net. They'll have three guys battling in the corners and cylcing back and fourth, but no one is in front of the net. There is no one willing to take the punishment to stand in front of the net to screen the oppostion's goalie. Early in the season both Higgins and Koivu were paying the price in front of the net and were deflecting or banging in rebounds from Souray's shots. Now, Souray is only a threat if he scores himself. No one is showing the courage to screen the goalie or stand in front of his shots. They need guys willing to pay the price like Ryan smyth did against the leafs on his goal tonight. They have to have their forwards willing to put their ass in the goalie's face and force the oppositon's D to take penalities by moving them. Instead, all we see is a team playing like a chicken with their head cut off, staying outside or passing back to the point. Right now, i don't think anyone on their roster should be untochable except for Komisarik, Latnedrese and Higgens. ANd if I was GM, i'd even move them if there was any chance of gtting someone like Lecavalier (higly unlikely). But at this point, if Koivu did waive his no trade and someone was offering a can't miss prospect or someone like Getzlaf, I would not even think twice about it. This team needs to be blown up. The core (Kovolev, Rivet, Souray (only bcoz how much he is going to cost, and bcoz he is our most tradeable commodidty), Bouillon, Dandenault and ryder should be moved. One of Bonk or Johnson (both UFA's), should be moved. By Feb 27, you may even have someone willing to take Niinemma or samsonov, even if it is just for draft picks, the habs should do it. Koivu, i would only move if it was for someone you can't pass up on (i.e. Getzlaf, Marleau). Bottem line is that the habs have a lot of young promising forwards coming up, but they are lacking the guy who can carry the team on his back and get 90-100 points in the future. we have no hope in hell of getting him. As bad as we are, we can't possibly get as bad as the flyers, LA or columbus or chicago - all of who I might have probably have a much brighter future then the habs do!!!! yes he has a no trade contract, but given the disaster this season has turned into, he may waive it for the right situation (i.e. Wild, Ducks).

I don't think the habs will EVER have a true league leading calibar top scorer that they develop themselves until there is a serious shift in their philosophy. Any player with offensive potential ends up playing with grinders on the 3rd or 4th line and is forced to "learn" how to play defence for a couple of years before mgmt shows any confidence in him. Tonight it was a joke seeing Milroy on the 4th line. I think if you are going to bring up your leading scorer, you give him a chance playing on one of your two top lines. Why the hell is Ryder getting a free pass??? Koivu is also starting to really dissapoint me as well this past few weeks. He has had slumps before, but at least the effort looked like it was there, the last 5-6 games the effort has not even been there. Anyway, to get back to my original point, the biggest reason (other then poor drafting), the habs don't develop offensive players, is that they never let them get confidence scoring first. Defence is easy to learn. but you can't teach a checker to score.

sportsnet is reporting that Gainey said Souray won't be moved. If this is true - this is a BIG mistake. Signing souray upwards of $5M is nuts, I think he is going to be followup this year the same way mcabe did after signing his contract i toronto. Montreal is also stuck with samsonov's contract next year. I think they are done this year, you have to get value for some of the UFA's like Bonk and Souray and have to dump others like Ryder, kovolev, boulion, dandenault. May as well call up guys like Koitsyn, Grabovsky and give them a good long look. they need to also give others like Perozhogin, higgens, latndresse more time this year so they will be better next year.

I would throw in any one of Perozhogin (who loked pretty good tonight)/Lapierre and if we could also get a forward prospect back (i.e. Bernier), offer Ryder or any other D-man with the exception of Markov and Komisorik

i think we should even be able to get more for him by trading him to a west coast club, since they should have a better chance of re-signing him and may be willing to give up more.

to me both are guys that are playmakers, both are small. Neither are finishers. the habs need a guys who are proven finishers or the type of "can't miss prospect" that can become a finisher and is not going to be a streaky player. I think Souray should be packaged with one or two players to get a true first liner. As much as a like Koivu, he is really a 1a or would be better suited as the second line centre. I'd rather have the habs go and make a play for a a true number 1 line player then a potential 2nd liner. If they trade Souray to a california team, they should be able to get more, bcoz, i think souray is more likely to sign with a SJ or anaheim. they should even be able to play the two against each other. I think both need to counter-act the moves made by nashville and calgary. I still think Gainey can pry Marleau and Bernier/Carle. If he offers a package that is enough to push SJ closer to being the team to beat in the west. SJ needs help on defence and a gritty centremen. IF the habs offered Souray, Bonk, perohzogin, and Bouillon/dadenault, that might be enough. Yes Souray is a free agent, but would likely re-sign. Bonk is another free agent, but if he can help them have that shut-down centre needed in the playoffs. I hate to give up perozhogin, but i don't think the habs are ever going to give him a decent chance to succeed. I think we are done for this year. You may as well move the guys like Ryder, and most of their D. Any other time of the year, i can't see anyone wanting any of our D-men with the exception of Souray, Markov and Komisarik. However, with teams looking to pick up depth, we may be able to unload the other pylons we have playing D (heck someone might even take ninnimma of our hands).

I hope it is Carle or Bernier. The habs already have plenty of prospects like Pavelski. How is he an upgrade from Plekanac?

I'm not saying Bonk for Carle would happen. i'm saying if you put a pacakge together that allows SJ to plug their other holes, so that they could be a SERIOUS Contender, you may be able to get him. I'd try to make that deal, even if it meant throwing in either Dandeanault or Bouillon. I really think the year is done for the habs and there Defence sucks. They need a complete overhaul. They should only try to re-sign Markov, hang on to Komisorik, keep Striet as a depth player, but otherwise blowup their blue line. The Habs have to be the worst team in moving the puck out of their zone.

you have got to be kidding. BertuzzI???? the guy has done squat for 2 yeaars AFTER serving his suspension. Florida got raped on that trade. the guy is exactly what the habs DO NOT NEED - another self centered, lousy attitude, play when he feels like it, over paid bum. As far as Roberts, if the habs were one, or two players away from being a contender, I would pick him up. But we have far two many holes in the lineup that need to be filled before we go after vetern leadership (ie. defencemen, who can actually PLAY defence, bona-fide goal scorer/front line center).

I'm thinking there is something more going on. Vision problems :?- :?- he has missed a lot of chances in close lately, where it seems like he just couldn't find the puck. Frustration is leading to the penalties. I've said this b4, that after Roy he is my favorite post 70's Habby. But given that he has probably around another 2-3 years remaining as being an impact player, if we can add someone younger and he waives his no-trade, we may as well trade him. Considering the number of d-men we are going to lose this year, and the difficulty in siging free agents in Montreal, I don't see montreal being a contender for at least another 2-3 years now. I'm not sure they can sign the only guy they should sign from this year's UFA's (Markov), and if they can't they are going to be in even WORSE trouble next year. The only d-men other then Markov I'd like to see back is Komisarik who still a work in progress and has a lot of upside, and Streit - but as a 5th/6th d-man. Carboneau has given him WAY to much ice time.