v-hab

Huh! So much verbiage with very little substance. Not sure if you were playing the role of ‘The Devils Advocate’ or just chastising anyone’s view that is in conflict with yours. I am not reading anything in your argument that is constructive to build on . . .perhaps, that is your point, ‘leave no habs fan standing’ and it’s not necessary. My view came from stats on Moen and Gomez; Finishing your checks can and often bring penalties deserved or not. I guess the true test will be to see if Cole with 225 hits last season is forced to change his style of play. Moen with SJS and ANA had 171 hits. In his first year in Montreal he continued to play his style with 161 hits to the coach’s disliking with less ice time. This last season he had 129 hits with more ice time. Gomez with NY had 61 hits, this year with Montreal, 30 hits and even a benching as to help change his style

I have read your thinking on and off for some time now, and for the most part I find myself agreeing more than disagreeing with your views. However, even at the threat of a gun I can’t agree with you on this issue. It’s not Moen that has changed, it is Martin that has changed Moen and so many others, including Gomez that have had their strengths diluted with in a ‘ Martin system’. A system he has been using for the past 16 years with little or no success. One might think, if you are too stubborn to adapt to the new NHL why would you expect the end result to be different. He has a defense first system relying on the Power play and his players are not allowed to take penalties or retaliate, warranted or not. If you should break this rule, you get the famous ‘ non-confidence’ label. Unfortunately, whatever player PG looks for to play with a edge Martin will sit until he becomes another Moen or Pouliot. We have most of the right players with the wrong Coach and system. The good news, or BAD News is It’s only a matter of time before he stabs PG in the back, so he can move into the GM’s job and drag this organization down to the level he accomplished in Florida.

Admittedly, I have not read your posts in long time, however it is nice to read you have not lost your enthusiasm to quote a detailed opinion, especially in defense of Martin as a coach. I will try and defend my statements knowing full well I will not change your thinking, nor have you change mine. After reviewing your post several times I decided to ‘fact check’ the information, also to confirm my own thinking. I found you may have been ‘generous’ in your defense of Martin by suggesting his success with; Alfredsson/133, Hossa/12, Havlat/26, Phillips/1, Redden /20, Jokinen/3, Bouwemeester/3 and Spezza/2 you have directly credited Martin with their success then as development and into today. With the exception of Alfredsson drafted 6/133 the rest were drafted in their first round the lowest being Havlat at #26.with the #1-2-3-3 picks. It’s interesting to note ( again with the exception of Alfredsson ) all came into the NHL a ‘superstars’ and continue long past Martin’s departure. When you review the numbers ( points) for these players when they first arrived in the NHL under Martin very little has changed for any of these players today, except they are older. Lets take Spezza as a example, Pre-Martin 02/03 - 33 GP – 7G – 14 a = 21 the year of hell under Martin. 03/04 – 78GP – 22G – 33 a =55 Post Martin 05/06 – 68GP – 19G – 71a =90 06/07 – 67GP – 34G – 53a =87 07/08 – 76GP – 34G – 58a = 92 The same results apply with the others goal scorers stayed goal scorers, so my question would be how do give credit to Martin for developing prospects. I have to stand by my statement as a coach Martin is a dinosaur long past his ’best before date’. I will continue to be concerned for assets like Pouliot ( less now that he is scoring) Eller,Lapierre and even PK the high ice time is a invitation to make mistakes, I understand with the weak defense it is necessary, but there is a risk .

Hab29Retired, Very valid points and obviously I agree. Like the tie-in to ‘The Penguin’ however are you not doing a disservice to penguins in general?. Brian, I think I understand you’re position and totally agree for the most part that maxpac will improve faster in Hamilton as well as, it is not his place to only assign a ‘top6’ destination as his place in the NHL. My diatribe was with the issue of Martin as a coach and his coaching philosophy, and comparing Martin to Charbonneau I have no problem with what maxpac said, history will prove maxpac was right, frustratingly so. Look how Charbonneau handled OB when he scored in his own net, very classy for a rookie coach not in the top 10. The line juggling last night and sitting out Eller made no sense whatsoever and supports maxpac’s statement, and supports my thinking as well.

This is a issue I can’t agree with many on this board , finally someone from within that is ‘brutally honest’ with respect to Jacques Martin.. I have a new-found respect for MaxPac. The Martin hiring will go down as Gainey’s biggest mistake, Martin is a dinosaur filled with a history of breaking the spirit and confidence of young players, just ask some of the players in Ottawa and Florida if ‘they would play for him today ?’remember I said, ‘ if they would play for him today’. Spezza is only the first that comes to mind, and the list is long. Yet there are many that find it necessary to highlight that Martin falls into the NHL’s top 10 winningest coaches making him out ‘as he must have more creditability making the MaxPac statement untrue or that of a crybaby. However, Martin was never picked as part of a ‘Team Canada’ coaching team, perhaps it has something to do with his dinosaur coaching philosophy. Being a winning coach depends on the strength of the team you have. Considering the roster’s he had in Ottawa anyone could have won most of those games. Remember, he copied his ex good friend Mike ( Iron mike) Keenan one of the most hated coaches, so how long will it take the Molson’s to wake up and see that it’s not the players that need to be changed it’s the coach. Being bilingual does not make you the right coach for young assets. Charbonneau who played in the NHL had his coaching faults but patience with developing our young assets was not one of those faults. Martin never played, Junior, AHL or NHL and the result is the mirror image of learning the game from Keenan. Slowly these dinosaur coach’s are falling by the wayside in the new NHL and the new CBA. His track record here in Montreal only confirms he is not, and has never been, a teaching coach, do we wait for names like Eller, Lapierre, Pouliot to be lost and are part of the list of; Chipchura, Latendresse, Stewart, Matt D'Agostini and waiting to dump O’Byrne. What other coach can you remember going on record with the press having said “ I don’t have any confidence in this player” (O’Byrne last season). Well, lets be clear on this issue, I don’t have any confidence in Martin as a coach. If a coach’s only ‘claim to fame’ is to break the spirit of potential players with talent by sitting them out or dressing them to play 2-4 minutes rather than encouraging and developing the talent then your talent as a coach has to comes into question. The Martin coaching plan, Eller LH center, Martin plays him LW/RW, Lapierre RH center, now has to play RW, Pouliot LH center, now has to play LW/RW, the list goes on and on, the real kick in the azz is, Martin then criticizes their effort at the changed position as their fault. It has taken Pouliot many years too convert to a winger and he is still learning. GOOD ON YOU MAXPAC

Nice try . . .again DO YOUR HOMEWORK !!!! Do you just sit around and make up stuff to suit your posts??? Erik Johnson has played 47 games, The team has played 48 He sat out earlier in the year (around the 25 game mark) and another correction, he has 1 point in his last 2 games for a total of 23 points. 4 goals and 19 assists almost half-a - point a game not too bad for a 21 year old. "There is no such thing as homework old man. It is just common sense" really try using some.

First of all I just turned 76 and confined to my one room apt. I promise you, I spend days if not weeks to research my trades ( and other peoples suggestions ) very carefully . I follow three teams as well as, the Habs and don’t need, or have the money to use a computerized game. Also I’m opened minded enough to see and accept all opinions regardless if I agree or not. However, you may be right relative to St.Louis moving these assets. Thus offering the premium was my choice. I find it hard too accept, knowing full well we can’t pay Plekanec the money he will want somewhere at $4.5+ million. Vermette is signed for 5years at $3.750. million and would be a acceptable replacement if for nothing else, better financial management. Vermette; 14 goals, 22 assists for a total 36 with a 53.9 % in face offs on 904 total FO’s Plekanec; 10 goals 47 assists for a total 46 with a 47.1% in face offs on 978 total FO’s “He will very likely be as good or better than Johnson” There we go again, absolute belief in what might be rather than accepting the NHL accomplishments as the best value. Last but not least, St.Louis is in desperate need to acquire a starting goaltender, Conklin was the subject of many trade rumors this season so Price might be use as Bait to get Perron and Johnson. I won’t get to a level that would have me rate your response,do your homework young man cheers have good day

In what world would you live in that suggests this years Habs team could possibility get past the first round, we are now tied for 10th. spot looking very much at being tied for 13th. in our own conference and overall at 22nd. clearly looking at finishing at 25th. or 26th. If you are believer in miracles then I understand your position. Even getting into the draft lottery does not guarantee a 1-4 pick or that your pick will be NHL ready to play. Should Gainey not change this team, then why should anyone expect a different result in 10/11. The fact is, given the financial management of this team 09/10, Gainey has no choice but to make changes or lose cap space next season or again lose key players for nothing in the UFA. Any trade now at least suggests some hope for 10/11. Trade is the best way to give any hope of a better team. Many believe that throwing our failures at other GM’s will bring back in return their best. One has to give up some of it’s best to get better ,like it or not. . . win-win.

Obviously, you didn’t have the time to read the post as clearly as I might have hoped. I clearly said “only if “ Subban was required. Acquiring Johnson at 21 years old eliminates the need to hope Subban will be everything you think he MIGHT become. Did you really look at the credentials of the returning players or is it you just don’t want to lose Price and Subban??? Rather than respond now, Let me know what you think after Wednesday’s game perhaps you might see things differently

Here is another suggestion from Moneypuck on another site that could be a possibility for Gainey. ‘Moneypuck’ is without a doubt one of very few that could be considered a draft specialist. He follows this area, NA and European players very closely. When he post anything it is from experience and realistic thought. Not my choice of Goalies to trade, but I could live with it QUOTE (Moneypuck @ Jan 18 2010, 04:20 PM) I rarely if ever post a trade suggestion in this thread, but here it goes: To Dallas: G Jaroslav Halak 2nd round pick 2010 To Montreal: F Scott Glennie G Alex Auld Analysis: Dallas gets a goalie who they can keep long-term who is having a great season and is young with potential. They get cheaper and better in net as well as get a good pick. Montreal gets decent value on a goalie, getting Dallas first round pick from 2009 who is still in junior. Glennie won't be able to help right now and is likely years away, but any sort of upside you can get from trading a goalie is great and Glennie has good upside. Montreal doesn't get better now, but they get better down the line. Auld is just a depth move and will leave as FA after this season.

The first issue, in the ‘Sissy’ thread someone had posted Spacek had three years left, it was a three year contract with only two years plus the remainder of this year left. Not too important just a correction. The question I have, is our expectations of Spacek as a goal scorer unrealistic. He scored 10 goals in 99/00 that is ten years ago the rest of his career has been in single digit goals. My problem with BG acquiring him, is he is 35 years old, left handed and we are paying almost $4 million. Again a reminder L-Handed defense men are playing with a disadvantage on offense and defense when asked to play right Dee. It is not as much a problem for forwards as it is on defense. I’m reading some posts suggesting that we should be looking for more scoring from our defensemen. I’m watching the same games, and I see the problem more as a breakdown in clearing the area in front of our goaltenders so rebounds are not automatic goals. Gill does a fairly decent job on a regular basis, the rest have their moments. Exception being Bergeron. He is definitely not a Defenseman. Maybe, and just maybe, he might be a forward that can play the PP. We will all be getting the chance on Wednesday to watch Erik Johnson 2006 #1 pick 6’4” RH D-man. ASSETS: Has a great shot from the point. Skates extremely well for a big man and has a mean streak that can rattle opposing forwards. Owns all-around upside. FLAWS: Is still working on his positional skills, as he tends to leave the zone too early on occasion. Must be a more consistent presence and improve his defense. And David Perron a 2007 first rounder #26 overall a RH right winger who this week has bee moved back from left wing to right wing. A 50 point player last year. ASSETS: Is a great dangler with the puck. Can play on either side of center and excels in open space. Is both a finisher and playmaker. FLAWS: Must continue to work on his positioning and defensive-zone coverage in order to maximize his NHL potential. Takes some shifts off. CAREER POTENTIAL: Ultra-skilled winger. There is no doubt in my mind, these are the kind of players BG should be looking at. Offer whatever it takes to get them regardless of the cost. If I was BG I would offer for them Price, S Kostitsyn and Hamdlik and if that didn’t get JD’s attention I would throw in Subban . Save AK and Plekanec for a shot at Vermette, A first or second line center under contract for five years at $3,250. Million. I can’t remember when we had a #1 or #2 draft pick as we finish in the middle of the pack most years so in acquiring high draft pick from other teams you build from strength not from hoping mediocre players will develop the necessary skills all at the same time to become a contender. Pouliot is a start, now he has to finish the ‘Bob the Builder” plan

On more than one occasion I have stated my preference to keeping Plekanec as well as, Halak. However, I’m reading on this and other boards, Plekanec is rumored to be asking for $7 million. I have searched everywhere, and have found nothing to confirm this. Question two for Gainey, Will I get a better return for Price or Halak?. The first question is Plekanec. If there is any truth to the $7 million rumor then he is looking too settle at the $5+ million, neither of which we can afford. So if I’m Gainey, I would be looking to deal today with Western conference teams that are in trouble today and will need help for next season. Columbus is one of those teams, and they have cap room (albeit self-imposed ). Would a offer of Plekanec and A Kostitsyn return Vermette a C/LW 27 years old with a $3.750.mil. cap hit for 5 years, along with a conditional 2010 first or second round pick. It’s realistic, and a possible option. Halak or Price, without question Price in a package brings a much better return. More-so than ever, I’m still convinced St.Louis would be the answer for Gainey. I know this might be way out in left field but, would they ( LP and JD ) finally be willing to part with Erik Johnson 21 RD and Perron 21 RW/LW if we dangled Price, Hamrlik and S Kostitsyn. We may even get a good prospect to be included ( Andronov 20- 6’2” LW/RW for Hamilton) That way as just suggested, Spacek could return to his natural side. St.Louis has a very young defense and could use the experience of Hamrlik, and they have the cap room, the question is, would St.Louis be one of his approved teams?. A option to look at that takes nothing away and adds some needed contracts would be to work a deal with Carolina, They have the rights to Babchuk a 6’5” RD with a ‘booming’ shot that just wont resign ( RFA ) with them, has twice jumped back to the KHL and wants to play NHL. We have the rights to Emelin that wont sign and come over for us. Perhaps a change of teams might bring them back. A small package of Weber, rights to Emelin and D’Agostini for rights to Babchuk and Jiri Tlusty a 21 LW/RW to rebuild our prospect wingers in Hamilton. There are many that would like to stay the same, with no change and I respect that view however, without a change we will lose good players for no return and still face a financial cap problem along with needed contracts.

Montreal pulled out a important regulation victory tonight. The fact of the matter is, we needed these points against a team in the same race that we are in. It will prove to be even more important when the teams below us start to make up games. It’s important not to fall below the .500 mark. However, I am really concerned with the other teams, and how quickly they could pass us in the playoff race when they finally make up in games played. So far we are not losing ground, or gaining ground. It would nice to see them all lose the three games but I think that might be too much to hope for. New Jersey on Saturday will much more challenging, our record against current playoff contending teams is not all that great, I believe it is 7 wins. However, there is some hope, NJ plays Friday night so perhaps it will effect Saturday’s game

Just a reminder THE OLYMPIC TRADE FREEZE BEGINS MIDNIGHT FEB 12, ENDING MIDNIGHT FEB 28 2010. The trade deadline is March 3rd. so there really isn’t that much time to get any trades completed I understand O'Byrne is not making the trip to Washington ??????

There are times when I also think that meddling with the roster might cause more harm the good. On the other hand, I always seem to return to reality and know we are only short one true scoring winger and perhaps a RH d-man. I would rather our competition be forced to react. However, I am concerned ( perhaps overly ) that our competition will make their needed improvements and pass us by, and then we will be back to react mode. Whether we like it or not, the Leafs are a much improved team than they first indicated. Keep in mind, as usual we play the last game of the season against them, would hate to see them knock us out of a playoff spot as they did two years ago because we were missing 1-2 upgrade players over today’s roster. Boston just acquired Miroslav Satan that might replace the loss of Kessel for basically peanuts. We shouldn’t take this move too casually he still has value at age 35 in a playoff race. ASSETS: Has a deadly shooter's touch and loads of deception to his game. Is virtually unstoppable on breakaways and a major scoring threat on special teams. FLAWS: Tends to get lazy at times. Doesn't use his size nearly enough. Gets down on himself when not scoring goals. CAREER POTENTIAL: Top six winger.

LOL . . .Exactly my point, why not create a ‘idea’ for yourself, outlining you’re pearls of wisdom, as to why the suggestion is madness, at best. also how you would resolve the cap issue?. Even better do some research for a change and come up with a improvement, or at the very least a point by point reasoning as to why this is lunacy . Then we all can build from there. I fine Hab29 articulates his concerns very well and he does have suggestions to build on.

Again, the issues that are of concern with you and many of us habs fans, are for the most part valid. I don’t agree entirely in your assessment to resolve those issues as internet GM’s. I have come to accept the fact Gomez will be with us for at least a couple of years and think his play will eventually become acceptable ( not the money ). The same holds true for Hamrlik his play is acceptable it’s just we look at him as a financial burden that would free up cap dollars. I really don’t believe either will be moved. I suggest to you the same question when I suggested to fire Gainey. I was asked ,who would you get to replace him that is BETTER?. I agree with your assessment of Gainey as a Below average GM, his cap and asset management , for me has always been suspect. Spacek, the scouting reports on him are very clear, ‘ he has difficulties when playing his off side (RD)’ He is left handed and we ask him to play the right side, is this his fault?. Keep in mind O’Byrne is the only RH d-man on the roster today, and as far as I am concerned ,O’Byrne is playing so much better than I expected. The pit-falls are simple and understood by almost everyone. There are ways where it could be made to work, that means trade and as usual, personal preference will be argued forever on this site. I have my own solution worked out with only teams that need help, this will never happen because Gainey has no history of multiple team trades. Realistically, we can’t sign both Price and Plekanec . Price can be replaced, Plekanec cannot be replaced so my vote is package Price, AK, SK to St.Louis for Perron, Junlund, Andronov and Conklin. Trading Conklin to Edmonton after. Why Perron, he is being moved all over on different lines and is now listed on their depth chart as third line LW when he is RH. This suggests he could be available. Carolina has real problems, I would trade the rights to Emelin with Weber and D’Agostini for, Rights to, Babchuk and get Jiri Thusty. Getting Babchuk brings the same point shot as Bergeron only he is RH and 6’5” only available next season ,( playing KHL) There should be no question that in order to improve all areas, the caliber of player and cap management we are going to have to overpay slightly to get other GM’s to even look at the offers. Some day I will post my complete trade just to piss Habsy off. . .might even do it in the wrong thread. There are some that are void of ideas and solutions that would rather post a negative response to everything, rather than build on ideas.

Too bad about the retirement, but congrats on the new baby. Well we do share something in common, you may not be sleeping through the night, as I do not. Enjoy them while they are young ,the teenage years will drive you to drink.

Hab29retired, I for one am not offended by the length of detail and information you present, and I do enjoy reading your posts. I don’t always agree entirely on all of your issues, but close enough to give pause for more thought. Perhaps this is because I also am retired and search daily for information from a number of sites giving exposure to different views . . .my problem is retaining it all. In your Dec 24th post . . . “I have no preference right now between Halak and Price, but don't want to make a move right now when we don't have to. I wouldn't mind a move packaging Halak or Price if it allows us to pick up another centre, IF the centre we include is Gomez, but I don't want to move Pleks and Halak and regret both moves. .If i'm in Gainey's position, I would sign Pleks and find a way to unload Gomez's salary, even if it means eating it in the minors (NJ has used this approach masterfully to get out of their bad signings). I would wait and let Halak and Price fight it out until the end of the year. As i've said, the only way I'd move Halak is if I could dump a salary like Gomez and bring in another centre or a stud D-man. “ As I read all this opposition towards Gomez, it appears too be just his cap hit, His signing brought us Cammalleri and Gionta. Gainey is not going to dump Gomez, at least not for a couple of years. Should Gainey get fired, that might change. Have to agree 100% on signing Plekanec. There is no one available from a trade or UFA pick-up that can do all he does. Again, I would front load a seven year contact and have him signed by mid-January. With his confidence issues the later we wait, he could be tempted to test the UFA market feeling he is not wanted. Gainey made the Exception in signing Koivu in mid-season. Plekanec is without question a player that should get the same ‘exception’. I on the other hand would not wait too much longer re; Halak – Price . I would trade Price while he still has value to return a real scoring winger to bring two solid scoring threats. Should Price falter as he did last season, then his value weakens the return. Signing Halak to reasonable contract should be a financial reason as well as, considering potential to be almost equal. My two cents

You most likely have the same report I have. as I read it, The NMC was only in 08/09. As for the state of his health, I have no idea. "Georges Laraque, MTL - NTC [full NMC for 2008-09; after July 1, 2009 Laraque names six (6) teams in both the Eastern Conference and Western Conference that he will accept a trade to]"

I simply have to follow my policy of not responding to your sarcastic remarks, as it appears other do also . Policing the posts of anyone and or everyone does not really give you Mod. Privileges. When you start reading news from other sources ( ie: Hockey News Etc. ) you will find the Horton rumor. I’m not going to do your work for you. Some good advice to follow . . . If you don’t like the message, don’t read it, you will have a much more peaceful life. Noticed how I tied in ‘Peace’ with the season. And, it not even a rumor.

I’m not so sure it will come as much of a surprise, but it is surely needed, both from a financial management standpoint and the acknowledged top (big)six winger the team has been searching for , what seems like forever. The question is, if Sergei is part of any package will Andrei fall back to old AK as earlier this season and last season. Whenever Sergei is not playing with the habs Andrei is a disaster . I think some or all of the following might be part of a package that will arrive too late change our playoff chances. Halak, D’Agostini, Sergei, and possibility Gorges (O’Byrne is our only RH d-man today) Gomez is not going anywhere BG went after him for a reason and he has NTC . . . “Scott Gomez, NYR - NTC [at the end of the each season Gomez gives the Rangers a list of 3 teams he will not accept a trade to]” It’s up to Gainey to find him the right, LW big player. As much as I would like it to happen, I don’t see Pouliot as the answer for this season. My lineup would be; ( AK46 )- Gomez – Gionta Cammalleri – Plekanec- (someone like Davork 6’2’ or Horton 6’2”) Metropolit - B Pouliot- Moen Bergeron- Lapierre – Laraque ( when needed) Pouliot could take Pacioretty spot on the second line . . .if he is ready. However, he does play better as a centre.

Interesting read, whatever the trade scenario, it still has to be financially cap responsible . Both teams have some of the parts we need today. A possibility could be for Halak and a prospect . To Montreal cap coming in $ 1,005.mil Leighton age 28 cap $183k ufa 09/10 Giroux C/RW age 21 cap $822k rfa 10/11 To Philadelphia cap coming in $ 1,275 mil. Halak cap $775k D’Agostini cap $500k OR To Montreal cap coming in $ 2.218 mil David Perron RW/LW age 21 cap $918k rfa 09/10 Conklin age 33 cap $1,300.mil Either trade would be a step up to icing two scoring lines Both Perron and Giroux are5’11” both first round picks . For financial reasons Philly is the good deal for skill set St Louis would be better, and they are in the western conference

Missed 7 Forgot Higgins, TK, Janik, Komi, Begin, Weber and Metropilit. Your right. . . that was fun

If there is any truth to' Halak on the trading block ' here are some teams, mostly from the west that might be interested. Columbus 117 GA and 99 GF Florida 112 GA and 95GF NYI 104 GA and 84 GF LA Kings 104GA and 107GF Anaheim 103GA and 91 GF Edmonton 100GA and 98 GF http://www.coppernblue.com/2009/12/14/1200...khabibulin-done