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The team didn't see him in the big picture anymore, so you have to look at this as a we trade a player we don't want away for a gamble, if Kassian comes in clean and re-energized and pops home 17 - 18 goals this season the trade is a massive success. if he fails, we still traded away something that was deemed an issue, gain the cap space from his suspension and we wash our hands of it as a gamble that didn't hurt the make up of the team that much. its not like Prust was delivering in the area most needed, offense, when he was in the line up, Kassian MIGHT have, at this point I understand the logic behind the gamble, and it could have been awesome, but so far it has failed, as was the Semin gamble, neither is hampering the team as a whole anyway so they were gamble's you could afford to make, and gamble's that don't cost much in the grand scheme of things are gambles worth making. its not like Bergevin gambled the Mortgage on these deals, he gambled a Lawn Mower and a Coffee Table here.

Come on now, Detroit has never had A+ goaltending, it was the part of their team that was weakest and despite that they put a championship team on the ice, it doesn't matter if they pay players a certain way, we all know Osgood was not an elite vezina talked about goalie. In chicago its much of the same, A+ offense and Defense, B goaltending, Crawford is never a runner up for trophies and never in the top 5 in stats. In the cap era you will not find an A+ across the board team because their simply isn't enough money to do it, you build a certain way, and hope it works. We are built A+ goaltending, A- Defense, and B offense, it sounds more like we are asking our offense to play above their station than it is us asking our defense to play up to standard, and I simply don't agree with that.

I agree mostly, but I would like to see a hockey trade that gets us a useful player in the right age group that we can keep long term, that Jeff Petry type forward, a useful second line player who isn't high profile enough to break the bank, but one that is known to get the job done on a second line.

I would definitely not consider Colorado an A+ defense at the time, and none of those teams matter in this argument because none were built under the confines of a salary cap, which is what prevents you from throwing money everywhere as you please and force you to make choices on your roster. Even the stanley cup champions don't have A+ goaltending and still make it work, they are forced to make choices with the cap, picked their poison, and made a championship team.

but they won with price in net, far more than they are now, even with spotty offence so... this team is built from the backend out, with the offence being the weakest of the 3 parts of a team structure, we can't expect an offensive juggernaut from a team that isn't built as one. Our version of Crosby, Ovechkin, and Stamkos is in our net, we are a goalie first defense second and offence third type of team, its how our salary is spent, its how the value of our best players is ranked, its just how we are built. You want Bergevin to be the first ever GM to ice a team with an A+ rating in Offense, Defense, and Goaltending then by all means email him the secret formula. When everyone is ready to talk realistic team building scenarios, then we can talk about how the phalanx crumbles when one of either Goaltending or Defense stops working at a decent level for us, and results in what we are seeing now. i'm not going to sit here and blame our weakest part of the team composition for our failures because when the team was great it was still our weakest aspect. I'm blaming the parts that are supposed to operate at a higher level than our offense, and currently aren't. Those same parts that showed us the entire month of November that when they operate at a solid level we are still a tough team to beat even without our star goalie, are showing us in December that when they are not, we fall apart. doesn't get any more simple than that in my eyes

well that's a double edged sword, who is to say we need more goals instead of allowing less? or vice versa? there could be a point made for both cases, it is literally a game by game analysis that would sway you to suggest one or the other was the problem that night. Neither issue has been the problem night in and night out, they are taking turns being an issue. in games like Boston, Washington, Detroit, and even Carolina, our players played their hearts out, controlled most of the game we either had leads or should have had them in each of those games, but they were blown or we were snakebit. The Boston and Detroit games, it was up to the people in charge of preventing goals to close her out, and both games that failed to happen, goalies were part of that. Carolina we controlled most of the game, got behind the 8 ball quick and everytime they got a half decent chance it was in the net, it sucks the life out of the forwards when that happens as it does to every team and any player, its simply what happens. Washington was a game we should have won also, we dominated an elite team gave ourselves a chance to win but the clutch save never came and we let it slip away. point is a confident team playing in front of price would not have lost any of those games in my opinion, so although we can't directly blame goaltending as the reason we are losing every game, it is also still an issue that is resulting in losses none the less. And i firmly believe the lack of confidence in front of the goalies is a direct result in their decent at best performances over the course of the last 3 weeks. Condon, when he was 9-1-1 during the first Price injury stint, had a .917% during the stretch, solid #1 goalie numbers there. If you look at his numbers in the current slide, or Tokarski for that matter, you will see a far different picture. This team is good enough to win some games without elite goaltending, it is not however, offensively powerful enough at this point to outscore a Goalie/Defensive slump. So where do you really place the blame then?

don't forget also the newly appointed captain, has one of the best contracts in the league, and plays in all situations. sarcasm aside, Max is so far off my list of trade bait it makes me chuckle still, everytime i see a post suggesting it.

well for one, just compare the 2 players this season, and you will see that we ended up coming out with the more useful player for us, did it make us contenders? no, and I never suggested it was a huge splash anyway, just a logical trade situation that had already occured. at the end of the day, i'm glad we made the trade, and i'm glad we have Smith-Pelley doing what he does for us than Sekac doing what he does for them. who is to say that wouldn't be the same outcome with Silfverberg, what if coming here turns him into the player he was for Ottawa again? wouldn't that be worth the sideways move? Alot of people want some Blue Jays type moves all the time, but sometimes you upgrade with baby steps, and look back after awhile and realize you built something pretty good that way too.

correction one brand of oranges is not playing his natural position, while the other would come in and slot into his. It would be a Sekac for Pelley type deal, a hockey trade where 2 teams with talented players hope a change of scenery for them can get them going and also gives a little slap on the wrist to 2 teams struggling. I don't see why this is being backhanded off the table as something totally pointless, we made this type of deal within the last year.

you realize the Flyers wouldn't cough up Simmonds for anything less than a Galchenyuk type return right? Look at his contract, it is just about untradeable as in it is so good you would keep it unless you got a ridiculously good deal. The Price would certainly be too high for Bergevin, and Philly doesn't have to give him up unless we make that type of offer.

Lets be honest here, the team is losing because 2 and now 3 very key pieces are finally showing their effects due to their absence, not because the coach sucks. If Bergevin were to even be tempted to consider the thought of Firing Therrien, it would only come because the team goes on a slide of this magnitude even when Price and Gallagher are back in the line up, not a moment sooner. So lets just put this thread to bed again, it is still too soon.

Nathan was looking dangerous with his swings but left himself wide open in between the big shots he was throwing and ate one coming in, tough kid though, that shot could have KO'd most people, especially when you are stepping into your own punch, to eat a punch coming in always doubles the impact force

only way that happens is later on this season when Him and Pleks make a direct swap, or next season. I still think the eventual top line in the near future will be Galchenyuk with Max and Gallagher. Plekanec can suit up with Eller and a talented winger, whether that is Andrighetto or an acquisition, and take on the bulk of the defensive matchups while trying to stay productive. Plekanec and Eller instinctively play the defensive side of the game very well, and both on a line would surely give fits to opposing teams top players in matchup situations.

I believe the bottom line for all of Therrien's thinking on this matter is simply the body of work from both players since the start of the season determined who had the longer leash. DD may have cost a winning goal on a soft play in Edmonton, but has been nothing short of being a big reason why our 3rd line has pretty much out-produced any 3rd line out there on a nightly basis the rest of the time. Meanwhile Eller has been struggling to produce regularly on a second line, centered by our most talented center, and produced half of his season total in 1 game to boot. Leaving much to be desired in at least 7 of his games played. yes the guy backchecks, he is useful, is strong on the puck, but the bottom line now and after 3 years of waiting, is simply that he struggles to produce numbers, and he is streaky as all hell offensively. Therrien isn't going to be dropping the hammer on a guy who has provided MORE than he expected from his spot in the roster after one bad play, he is dropping the hammer on a guy who hasn't given him what he has expected 80% of the season, that isn't favoring, that is logical coaching. Eller isn't in a checking role anymore, he wanted the chance to play an offensive role and move up the roster, he has been given that and still failed to produce, being good without the puck and along the boards isn't good enough anymore. And before we can expect Therrien to dish out the chocolate chip cookies to the guy and give him more PP time so he can produce more, he needs to do more with the 5 on 5 time he has with his line. That line should be better than it is, and if not for Chucky somehow keeping pace with the others and playing very well despite having 2 unproductive slugs on each side at the moment, that line would look even worse than it has. Maybe the next step is not to wonder if Eller is being mistreated by Therrien, but to wonder if Eller has the necessary offensive hockey instincts to warrant being a second line player, maybe we are expecting 55 points from a guy who is suited to be a 35 point 3rd liner. I've always been a supporter of Eller, and i'm not suggesting he is done, that we trade him, or move him off the line even because I still see him as the best option there currently. But for the love of Zeus can we all stop saying its either Therrien hate or Eller love, lets look at the numbers, look at comparables, expectations, and make an objective analysis of the situation, this post is mine. Simply, when Eller moved to his current spot before the season, I was excited, I thought he was going to open the flood gates in his new role, and I am surprised and a little disappointed that he has not, regardless of special teams, and all the banter that comes with that. Watching him play with Galchenyuk, and not able to produce and even at times look underwhelming out there has been surprising to me, watching Semin look the same as he did an Carolina has not, my expectations for both were very different, and so far one has met those expectations while the other has not, and that happened not in the order that i hoped.

Not sure i'm on board with all this "he isn't in the way" talk, Therrien might not be the greatest coach ever, but he is hardly a bad coach either. This team is certainly built well, which helps a lot, but to constantly give the guy no credit and assume has no hand in any of the team's success is a little crazy to me. He is a guy who preaches structure and discipline to play within the confines of hockey that he deems acceptable, and that is what this team is doing from top to bottom, he has that whole room skipping when he says and that alone says a lot about his coaching. Secondly, when a world class coach like Hitchcock says a team is well coached, it may be time to take the anti-Therrien goggles off for a minute and listen to what was just said, and who it is coming from, he knows a lot more than any of us on the matter. Therrien at this point is in the upper echelon of coaches in my book, and what sounds like those of his peers, He may not be a Quenville, but he is certainly better than most teams have in this league, and I simply don't think he gets a fair shake no matter what happens. He is either blamed for every issue the team has or is given no credit when it has none, the guy is cold as ice in the face of all the critics, even though he doesn't deserve half the flak he gets, or given half the credit he deserves. my thoughts on the matter anyway

We could easily replicate it even under the mirrored setup, you keep Subban on the right with Markov on the left, Semin on the right side acting as a right handed Kovalev, Markov can still use his fake shot cross box pass to Semin for one timers like he did with Kovy, Subban can still be a one timer option. Plekanec Eller Semin Pacioretty Gallagher Galchenyuk Subban Markov Petry Beaulieu 2 waves, both similar setups, both have one timers available on the wings and both points and a presence around the net either screening or making plays from around the net. I think these are both good recreations of a setup that worked for several years,

exactly, he is hardly looking like a bust as some were so quick to suggest, in every aspect i've watched so far this year, Rookie camp, training camp, and now AHL, he is looking like a steady force in the role he has been pegged since the start. Are we talking about a 30 goal scorer here? No i don't think so, but I do see the makings of a big strong 3rd line center with some offensive upside in his future. Yes it is only one game, but his overall game has been steady, and his production will never be elite, but he plays the game hard nosed and physical, he has net presence and strong board play, and if he marries that with some scoring upside we have a player in the system we have not had in a long time. I see a player on an upswing in his development and his career from year to year, and I just simply disagree with any notion that he is going to be a bust, he seems every bit capable of filling the role intended for him when he was drafted. That role is not to be the next Lindros, it is a happy marriage of Brian Boyle and a productive Bryan Bickel, slotted in on our 3rd line providing us with a valuable player contributing in ways only players like him, of his size, and his style can contribute.

it was not as predictable as you think, because for every ounce of fear in the Souray bomb that year, there was an equal fear that if left alone on the boards, Kovalev would skate to the hashmarks and fire a laser into the top of the net, which he did a multitude of times. I've stated this difference before when referencing our previous PP glory to the current edition, problem is we could easily re-create that double edged fear with Pacioretty or Galchenyuk in the same spot Kovalev was, doing the same type of damage with their shots, no clue why it isn't at least tried out for a few games.

boy whoever it was that said McCarron was not even going to hit 25 points in the AHL and struggle to be a 4th liner in the NHL in an article I read somewhere around here must feel the slight winds of crow creeping up their spine. from what I saw in this game, McCarron looked every bit the big, strong, nhl 3rd line center with some offensive upside he is pegged to be. In his established years, with his skill set and size and willingness to get to the net, he could easily become a 15 goal scoring 3rd line Center in Montreal capable of flirting with the 40 point mark.

Semin had a golden chance when he came screaming from the corner to make a few moves and cut through the crease for a near goal, Made a great toe-drag fake and pass on a 3 on 2 that Eller just couldn't control fast enough for a good angle shot, commentators got on him about not shooting enough right after. Weise had a great chance on a behind the net pass from Fleishman that he one timed but resulted in a great save by Mrazek. Had a couple great shifts down low with Fleishman cycling and controlling the play with tenacity and physicality. Personally I noticed everyone doing something good at various points of the games, even Gilbert who has been lackluster was pretty solid last night. Although i'm still confused as to how he is being so clearly out shined by Beaulieu, I guess Beaulieu is just progressing nicely into what may soon become a top 4 d-man for us in the next couple years. Overall everyone is in the role they should be in, and are contributing in ways they should be, it is starting to look like if this team is healthy, it is without a doubt a contender.

my thoughts exactly, Subban on the PP is not the problem, he is one of the best offensive minds on any blue line in the league. What needs to happen is the mindset that we need to circulate until the Subban Bomb is available needs to change. Subban is a slick playmaker, he is a slick puck handler, he has a wicked wrist shot, these are all skills we also need to exploit with him. He doesn't just need to be a bomb from the point, let him slither around, move the box around, let him fire wristers from the point for tips, let him make passes to the wingers on the boards for one timers. Why not let him be a setup man for a little while, let Markov be the bomb, he has a great shot too, let Subban help make everyone else on the ice more productive instead of just putting him out there to be howitzer. Having Subban on any PP is never going to be an issue, that's crazy and we are taking his presence on this team for granted if we think he belongs anywhere else but on our top PP unit, getting valuable PP minutes, because any other team would welcome him into their PP with arms wide open. Pull him away from his role of being a trigger man, not pull him off the PP altogether, swap him and Markov's roles around for 5 games and see what the results are, what harm can it do at this point?

this PP needs a threat on the wing like the good old days when we were a top unit, we always had Big threats from the point, Markov with guys like Souray, Streit, Schneider. But the one game changer was having Kovalev able and WILLING to cut off the boards a bit and take Dangerous shots if left unchecked. It was a triple threat, you couldn't just focus our Point down because Kovy would use the space to wreak havoc on the goalies with his shot. Now this years edition has the tools to do it,but no one seems willing. I'm betting Galchenyuk or Pacioretty are able with their shots, even Semin could do it from the opposite side. Someone needs to step up and either take the pressure off the point or at least take advantage of the space that is there while they focus on shutting it down. Before you know it this PP struggle will become more mental than anything else, and that is when were in real trouble.

Gonna have to disagree with both of you here, i'll explain my view on this, let me know what you think. I personally believe our Offensive struggle was purely Powerplay related, not personel related, if we even clicked around the top 12 PPs in the league as we should have on paper, we would not be hearing about this endless notion that our players are not top 6 material compared to the contenders. lets explore that shall we? because I looked into this and this is what I found, if we go just based on the consensus top 4 contenders from last season, 2 from each conference, Anaheim, Chicago, Tampa, and NYR. in Anaheim the top 4 scorers of the top 6 were Getzlaf(70 pts) Perry(55 pts) Kesler(47 pts) Silfverberg(39 pts) in New York the top 4 scorers of the top 6 were Nash(69 pts) Brassard(60 pts) Stepan (55 pts) St.Louis(52 pts) In Tampa bay the top 4 scorers of the top 6 were Stamkos(72 pts) Johnson(72 pts) Kucherov(64 pts) Palat(63 pts) in Chicago the top 4 scorers of the top 6 were Toews(66 pts) Kane(64 pts) Hossa(61 pts) Saad(52 pts) Now in Montreal our top 4 scorers in the top 6 were Pacioretty(67 pts) Plekanec(60 pts) Desharnais(48 pts) Gallagher(47 pts) Aside from Tampa, who's scoring trumps everyone talked about easily, the other contenders can be seen with close top 4 performances to our own. When you look at it like this I really see that were not as far off as some may think or as some adamantly suggest, we have less scoring yes, but are we really that far off these contenders when you consider between the top 4 players we are bested by a total of 10 - 15 points. My view on this matter has always been internal, we get the PP rolling in the top 12 again, and this talk of scoring issues gets put to bed. Also from an Internal stand point I can see Pacioretty and Plekanec scoring around the same again, but could easily see Galchenyuk and Gallagher crack the 50 point mark this season, which would put us even that much closer to the elite crop. Were simply never going to be an offensive juggernaut because our big pieces are mostly elsewhere, we have a top 3 d-man and the best goalie, are we really thinking were going to have enough resources to ice a tampa-like offence too? all teams are built different, that doesn't mean were going to miss our window because were not built like someone else. For the Dozen points were missing out on compared to those other teams, we also have the best goalie on the planet staring down the opposition on every shot, can they say the same? Do you think anyone on their forums thinks they are not true contenders because they don't have a Price-like goalie?

Couldn't agree more, Pateryn already feels more reliable to me than any of them, Tinordi remains a mystery though. Pateryn plays rugged, smart hockey, while Emelin only plays rugged and Gilbert certainly doesn't play smart. on a side note, Heck of a game for Subban, Price, Max, and Chucky.

Being a windsor guy myself I can almost positively say its alchol, he has been deep in that since his days with the Spits tearing up downtown windsor. Shame because everyone was telling us hab fans here how he would fall off the wagon and that we basically traded Prust away for an "only a matter of time" kind of guy. So far he looks right on the path of making them look like psychics, only smart thing he did in all this was not drive himself. but the ethics involved here are all wrong from top to bottom on his part, getting smashed into the wee hours of the morning days before a season opener just doesn't look good no matter what angle or glasses you use.