I finished High School

[Mont Royale]

A friend forwarded them to me in an email.

Those are awesome. I thought that was your work, until you clarified it!

"Very funny, Peter"

[JoeLassister]

A friend forwarded them to me in an email.

[BTH]

Those are awesome. I thought that was your work, until you clarified it!

"Very funny, Peter"

I loved that one too because of the comment left by the teacher. My favourite was probably the first one.

Can you forward me the email, Justin?

[Fanpuck33]

Oh man, the expansion one and the elephant one are freaking hilarious!

[Pierre the Great]

Its official now, graduated from high school. Teacher graded everything.

I feel cheated though do to the US grading scale compared to the Canadian one.

[smon]

You do realize that you're in the United States - lol, obviously you'd be graded accordingly

[Pierre the Great]

You do realize that you're in the United States - lol, obviously you'd be graded accordingly

yes, and that's why we are failing. We put more emphasis on test grades and getting 95%'s then actually LEARNING!!

[Fanpuck33]

yes, and that's why we are failing. We put more emphasis on test grades and getting 95%'s then actually LEARNING!!

Don't complain until you hear about the new grading system a number of schools are starting to use, it's just God awful. It consists of non-letter grades. You get a + if you are perfect on pretty much everything. You get a check mark if you are above average. You get an NI if you are a little below average and then I think a U for unsatisfactory, i.e. failing. It's a complete joke. A C student is getting the same mark as a low A or high B student. What incentive is there for hard work? If a kid works hard to get a 90% in a class and his buddy jacks around and gets a 75%, they get the same mark on their report card. It's totally ridiculous.

[BTH]

Don't complain until you hear about the new grading system a number of schools are starting to use, it's just God awful. It consists of non-letter grades. You get a + if you are perfect on pretty much everything. You get a check mark if you are above average. You get an NI if you are a little below average and then I think a U for unsatisfactory, i.e. failing. It's a complete joke. A C student is getting the same mark as a low A or high B student. What incentive is there for hard work? If a kid works hard to get a 90% in a class and his buddy jacks around and gets a 75%, they get the same mark on their report card. It's totally ridiculous.

Ooh. That would mark out to my favour. I get high 70s/low 80s. Bring it to Canada!

[smon]

yes, and that's why we are failing. We put more emphasis on test grades and getting 95%'s then actually LEARNING!!

It's no different in Canada.

[Pierre the Great]

Don't complain until you hear about the new grading system a number of schools are starting to use, it's just God awful. It consists of non-letter grades. You get a + if you are perfect on pretty much everything. You get a check mark if you are above average. You get an NI if you are a little below average and then I think a U for unsatisfactory, i.e. failing. It's a complete joke. A C student is getting the same mark as a low A or high B student. What incentive is there for hard work? If a kid works hard to get a 90% in a class and his buddy jacks around and gets a 75%, they get the same mark on their report card. It's totally ridiculous.

and the 8 point system is complete evil. When you make it harder to get good grades more kids fail = more kids will give up and drop out.

For example I've got a learning disability and in math it really comes through. I average around upper 60's to mid 70's. When I went to a school with an 8 point grading scale, I got NO help and I finished each semester with a 69. I failed math. Now is that fair? hell no.

when you make good grades harder to get it closes the door to millions of poor kids. Who try and try and try and the best they can do is a C. A 75 but a 75 in the 8 point grading scale is a D.

Now everything else we do in the world 50% is passing.

Hell Quebec can become a country at 50%

Yet you get a 50% on a test you aren't 'average' your a failure.

wtf?!

[Fanpuck33]

And when you make grades too easy to get, kids don't learn hard work and responsibility. Anyone who knows anything about education knows that higher expectations lead to higher success. If a 75 average student knows he can get a C putting forth minimal effort, he will likely do so, as he knows he is expected to be a C student. If you make it tougher to get an average grade, then the student will have to put forth effort, work harder, and learn the material better.

Psychologically, this is one reason private schools tend to be better than public schools. In many public schools, especially in urban areas, teachers don't believe students have the ability or means to excel. The expectations for the students that they simply pass standardized testing. The teachers don't push the students to strive for perfection, but for mediocrity. In private schools, the expectations are that students should excel on standardized tests. Those higher expectations lead teachers to push students so that they are able to not only pass, but excel.

Think about how crazy it would be to make 50% a passing grade in school. If a kid has a test on addition and subtraction, equal number of each type of question. The student gets all of the addition right and all of the subtraction wrong. Under your system, the student would pass the test, even though the student clearly has no idea how to subtract, which is going to hinder learning until subtraction is actually learned.

For example I've got a learning disability and in math it really comes through.

Then you should have had an IEP that allowed you to compensate for whatever disability you have. I've dealt with a number of students on IEPs who did fine. They saw their IEP as a tool to help them learn, not a crutch that means they aren't as smart as other students.

[Pierre the Great]

Don't complain until you hear about the new grading system a number of schools are starting to use, it's just God awful. It consists of non-letter grades. You get a + if you are perfect on pretty much everything. You get a check mark if you are above average. You get an NI if you are a little below average and then I think a U for unsatisfactory, i.e. failing. It's a complete joke. A C student is getting the same mark as a low A or high B student. What incentive is there for hard work? If a kid works hard to get a 90% in a class and his buddy jacks around and gets a 75%, they get the same mark on their report card. It's totally ridiculous.

de emphasis on a letter grade and more emphasis on the learning getting things right.

[Mont Royale]

de emphasis on a letter grade and more emphasis on the learning getting things right.

I agree the emphasis should be on learning, but how do you tell if a student has learned? It has to be measured.

[Fanpuck33]

de emphasis on a letter grade and more emphasis on the learning getting things right.

And letting a kid pass with a 50% makes him actually learn it? Get real. Let's see if I can remember George Feeny's quote from Boy Meets World: "It's just that pressure that pushes that kernel of knowledge past girls' phone numbers and past baseball statistics into your brain."

Also, that is why teachers offer help to students who fail. They suggest tutors, they suggest after school help, or they suggest coming in during lunch. And if the whole class fails something, then the teacher goes back over it and reteaches it so the students actually learn this. This is how good schools work, such as the ones I grew up in and the public school in which I did my student teaching.

All this being said, I do like the 10 point system (i.e. 90-100 is an A or A-, 80-90 is B-, B, or B+, etc) over a system where 93-100 is an A, etc. Ive gone to schools that used each system and my grades weren't affected much, though I of course liked the 10 point system because it was easier. Though, that really isn't true because the school with the 10 point was much more rigorous, which cancelled out the easier grading system.

[Quebecois]

Psychologically, this is one reason private schools tend to be better than public schools. In many public schools, especially in urban areas, teachers don't believe students have the ability or means to excel. The expectations for the students that they simply pass standardized testing. The teachers don't push the students to strive for perfection, but for mediocrity. In private schools, the expectations are that students should excel on standardized tests. Those higher expectations lead teachers to push students so that they are able to not only pass, but excel.

From my experience, the opposite is true up here. Up here parents dish out lots of money to send their kids to private schools and understandably expect good marks, therefore teachers have no problems ponying up to the parents and giving kids marks that they don't deserve.

[Fanpuck33]

From my experience, the opposite is true up here. Up here parents dish out lots of money to send their kids to private schools and understandably expect good marks, therefore teachers have no problems ponying up to the parents and giving kids marks that they don't deserve.

That's the great part about math. It's nearly completely objective. It's pretty much impossible to give a student a grade that they don't deserve.

[Pierre the Great]

Ah Fanpuck

Here's my shortened version of my school career

left public schools

went to a lutheran private school

had a horrible math teacher at a catholic school failed which then sent me on this journey. The catholic school was horrible. The Lutheran school was bizarre.

Then again if I was in the public system it would have chewed me up. I've got SAD that was mis-diagnosed for 10 years.

Basically the public school told me to leave. They couldn't take the nuclear bomb that is my emotions.

I took standardized tests since first grade because it is mandatory.

I did badly in them because my two strong points: history and geography weren't on the stupid tests.

In grade school the testers said I was clinically stupid and wouldn't amount to anything.

Then the Navy called in 4th grade looking for me. They saw my test grades and apparently thought I was dumb enough to join the navy and kill people.

Bullshit on the perfection. I can't believe this is coming from a religious person. What are you on? Especially from a teacher. Perfection is impossible (well I did get a 150% in History class never got below a 100% in tests for 2 years) but seriously, perfection is a joke. Especially when 80% of students get between 70-85.

Don't you dare say the teachers push for mediocrity that's a typical right wingers response. Blame the teacher union. The teachers union is evil. Good god.

My sister would be put in your 'mediocre' range. She's severely disabled didn't hear until 3. Doctors thought she'd be deaf. She's got a 3.2.

But guess what? She's horrible at taking tests. If she took the act (which she will next semester) she won't get anywhere near me, the unmotivated kid who need a light and found it. I'm going to bet right now she'll get under a 15.

She's the hardest worker in the whole school. Works 6hrs a night on school work, more then I ever did when I did 15 minutes because I thought it was futile and pointless. Except she spends all that time and gets the same grades as I did. Now she's a smart cookie but her 'test' scores say she'll be the dumbest person on the planet.

So don't you EVER say that teachers are pushing for medicore students, and this is coming from a teacher.

Its THE SYSTEM. We teach kids to do anything possible to get a test score so they cheat on the SAT or ACT to the point now that colleges don't even look at it. Because of Bush's policy of every child left behind teachers now TEACH THE KIDS TO TAKE THE TEST AND PASS. So the school stays up stupid 'standards'. The idea never worked in Texas, (drop out rates are the highest in the country there) it hasn't worked now.

Tests do not indicate a persons knowledge. Neither does a test score. Kids now don't care what they are learning they just want that grade. Or as I would yell at my dad trying to teach me math and he would go on for an hour on one signal problem: JUST GIVE ME THE ANSWER.

[Quebecois]

That's the great part about math. It's nearly completely objective. It's pretty much impossible to give a student a grade that they don't deserve.

True, but someone can get by with crappy math marks and if they are being given everything else on a silver platter then whats the difference? I had bad math marks but i got by with other subjects, someone in a private school could do the same. So what if they get a 65 in the objective subject of Math if they have straight 90s in everything else where teachers are feeding kids marks?

[Pierre the Great]

That's the great part about math. It's nearly completely objective. It's pretty much impossible to give a student a grade that they don't deserve.

omg, who gave u your teachers licence's.

You aren't taking into a count learning disabilities unless you think that, they are just hocus pocus.

[Fanpuck33]

True, but someone can get by with crappy math marks and if they are being given everything else on a silver platter then whats the difference? I had bad math marks but i got by with other subjects, someone in a private school could do the same. So what if they get a 65 in the objective subject of Math if they have straight 90s in everything else where teachers are feeding kids marks?

I just brought up math because that is what I teach.

The expectations I am talking about are teacher expectations. If teachers are feeding kids grades, then they obviously aren't putting high epxectations on their students. If they were, they would be making the students actually earn their grades.

omg, who gave u your teachers licence's.

You aren't taking into a count learning disabilities unless you think that, they are just hocus pocus.

Which is why they have IEPs, so students can overcome their learning disabilities. Also, I don't appreciate that personal attack. I finished college with a 4.0 in my education classes and scored in the top 15% in the country over the last five years on both the mathematics and education portions of the national exam for teachers.

[Pierre the Great]

okay would you grade math homework for correctness or completion?

Because if you grade for correctness and then don't explain what the homework is your students will fail like I did. They will then just get all the answers in the back of the book and not care about the process but just to get the grade because that's all that matters.

The system has taught a generation of kids to forget the learning and worship the letter.

[Fanpuck33]

Because of Bush's policy of every child left behind teachers now TEACH THE KIDS TO TAKE THE TEST AND PASS. So the school stays up stupid 'standards'.

No good teacher is going to argue with you there. That is why good teachers hold higher expecatations that simply passing tests. Good teachers know that if they get kids to learn the information, they won't have any trouble passing the tests.

okay would you grade math homework for correctness or completion?

Because if you grade for correctness and then don't explain what the homework is your students will fail like I did. They will then just get all the answers in the back of the book and not care about the process but just to get the grade because that's all that matters.

The system has taught a generation of kids to forget the learning and worship the letter.

I usually grade on completion, of course I have students show work. If it's obvious they just copied answers, then they don't get credit. I also spend time going over questions students have on homework so they are better prepared for tests and quizzes. I'm not against grading on correctness every now and then, just to keep students on their toes. What I prefer to that is after going over the homework, I give out a short little 2-3 problem quiz with questions directly from their homework. If they did the homework and and asked questions about what they didn't understand, then the quizzes aren't a problem for the students. If they didn't do the homework and didn't ask questions, then it is their own fault that they did poorly.

[Pierre the Great]

well, grades don't determine if someone is good or not. Never has never will.

Sports analogy: Joe Montana was a 3rd round pick.

[Fanpuck33]

well, grades don't determine if someone is good or not. Never has never will.

Sports analogy: Joe Montana was a 3rd round pick.

What does Joe Montana getting drafted in the thrid round have to do with grades?

And how else do you want to tell if a student is passing? Just let the teacher subjectively say, "This student seems like he knows enough to pass."?